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It's like someone has done a sales job on you. All markets are finite, and how many pounds of basil are you planning on storing? Do you need to rent warehouse space? When someone comes to you with a get rich scheme you need to ask for the business plan and evaluate the calculations with a critical eye not jump in head first. I had a friend turn up on Saturday with an idea for a business where if a certain technological problem is solved then he knows investors willing to put in a minimum of $1 million USD. If the project works out he wants me to move to the US. I told him that it's not enough money for me to move. There are better ways to make money than growing basil using electricity instead of something crazy like sunlight.
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Nov 5, 2012 04:31
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Well I mean, basil is really just a product. Anything that a business can sell for >$25/kg (various greens, many herbs, maybe even berries in some cases?) will work just fine as long as I can grow it in suitable density and they're willing to buy it from me, of all people.
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Nov 5, 2012 04:37
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How much does it cost to grow 1kg of basil with your current production set up? What are you transport costs to deliver the buyer per kg? What is your marketing budget? Or how do you intend to otherwise sell your product?
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Nov 5, 2012 04:45
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So what you're looking to do is spend a fair amount of money on the equipment for a low-profit side project that will likely not even pay for the initial outlay before everything in your life changes and you no longer have the time and/or space to continue it? It doesn't matter what you grow - and basil is quite frankly probably one of the more forgiving plants you could grow - you're not going to get anywhere near a useful volume of product even if you managed to grow a quality product, which is not super likely for someone who's setting up babby's first aquaponics. I mean, your enthusiasm is great and everything, assuming you're not trolling, so why don't you redirect that enthusiasm into something that'll turn into profit more quickly? Why don't you keep an eye out for low-commitment cash work that'll actually start paying you right away without you having to invest money you don't have? Hey, look, here's a drawing class looking to pay a model $20 an hour: http://barrie.kijiji.ca/c-jobs-other-Model-for-life-drawing-class-near-SHELBURNE-W0QQAdIdZ419814264
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Nov 5, 2012 04:47
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tuyop posted:Well I mean, basil is really just a product. Anything that a business can sell for >$25/kg (various greens, many herbs, maybe even berries in some cases?) will work just fine as long as I can grow it in suitable density and they're willing to buy it from me, of all people. Translation: "What can go wrong, as long as I hand-wave away all the complexities of supplying my product and also creating a demand for it?" That's why the world is filled with only wildly successful entrepreneurs who never tasted bitter defeat and put themselves into financial jeopardy. Oh wait...
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Nov 5, 2012 04:52
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tuyop posted:Well I mean, basil is really just a product. Anything that a business can sell for >$25/kg (various greens, many herbs, maybe even berries in some cases?) will work just fine as long as I can grow it in suitable density and they're willing to buy it from me, of all people. Didn't you help your friend with his setup? If he ends up doing really well with it, you will hear about it. More realistically, there is such a big difference between the price of something, and you being able to get that price. Farmers have been sucked into every specialty crop there is, from alpacas, cranberries, jerusalem artichokes with the dream of taping into some specialty market, or something where the price is really high, and time after time the price crashes once all the new production comes on, the market didn't materialize as promised, the bubble popped, or it just becomes hard to sell whatever quantity you end up producing. You grow more than the farmers market needs, but not enough for the grocery store that goes through 100 pounds a week who wants to deal with one supplier who can reliably get it every week.
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Nov 5, 2012 04:53
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tuyop posted:Sell it at flea markets? Health food stores? Costco? I don't know! I just love this so much, I had to quote it again. Costco. You'll just walk into a retail store (or Costco, loving Costco) with a bunch of basil all "hey, buy my poo poo" and they're all "sure, great, this is no doubt totally safe for our customers to cram into their foodholes dude we've never seen or heard of before here have all our money". FLEA MARKETS! Oh god, I'm dying. Bootleg DVDs, wire hanger cat sculptures, and fresh herbs. There's your niche! Tuyop you're the best. Thank you so much.
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Nov 5, 2012 05:06
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bombhand posted:So what you're looking to do is spend a fair amount of money on the equipment for a low-profit side project that will likely not even pay for the initial outlay before everything in your life changes and you no longer have the time and/or space to continue it? It doesn't matter what you grow - and basil is quite frankly probably one of the more forgiving plants you could grow - you're not going to get anywhere near a useful volume of product even if you managed to grow a quality product, which is not super likely for someone who's setting up babby's first aquaponics. This might also give you some bitchin' cover art for that erotic novel you and I are working on... right?
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Nov 5, 2012 05:07
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tuyop posted:Well I mean, basil is really just a product. Anything that a business can sell for >$25/kg (various greens, many herbs, maybe even berries in some cases?) will work just fine as long as I can grow it in suitable density and they're willing to buy it from me, of all people. Please just give this up and focus on a plan to reduce your debt and get to a place of fiscal solidity that is somewhat based in reality. Just follow the standard BFC diet of increasing income, reducing unneeded expenditures and resisting impulse purchases. All of this basil horseshit aside, how are your finances looking going into the holiday season? I know it's only been a couple weeks but I'd like to see where you are financially right now; mostly to make you think about it before jumping into a dumb thing that will ruin you when you drive your basil farm into a lake.
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Nov 5, 2012 06:57
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How fast does basil grow anyway? At my restaurant, we burn through that stuff quickly so you'd have to have a whole helluva growing on a rotation so you wouldn't ever run out.
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Nov 5, 2012 07:54
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Daric posted:How fast does basil grow anyway? At my restaurant, we burn through that stuff quickly so you'd have to have a whole helluva growing on a rotation so you wouldn't ever run out. Basil grows quickly. Seriously though, Tuyop, don't do the hydroponics thing. Do plant a huge vegetable garden in the spring, though. And you can even do a lot of basil if you want! At the very least, you'll get a feel for plants and it's a lot cheaper to eat out of a garden than buying vegetables (and it tastes better too). You should be able to (at the least) get potatoes, beets, carrots, peas, beans, squashes, rhubarb, tomatoes, spices (basil, oregano, thyme, etc.), and onions.
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Nov 5, 2012 08:11
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Fraternite posted:Basil grows quickly. loving hell this is true. It's a good starter herb for novice gardeners because it grows like a weed once it gets going. Serious question: assuming someone did have organic herbs to sell the grocery stores and restaurants, wouldn't you need a business license, and maybe an organic certification if you were going that route? I honestly don't know. Also for a place like Costco, wouldn't you need to go through their corporate purchasing department or something like that?
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Nov 5, 2012 11:16
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Higgy posted:Please just give this up and focus on a plan to reduce your debt and get to a place of fiscal solidity that is somewhat based in reality. Terrible! We're still recovering from the windshield and move. Toeshoes just bought like 45 dollars in winter workout clothes because she had none and my other running shoe just broke. I'll probably be ok with the stopgap solution I have until it gets pretty snowy, but I'm either going to have to stop running outside or buy some new shoes. My long runs are a genuine source of literal joy in my life, so I'm not very excited to replace running with swimming/stationary cycling/rowing all winter. What do you guys think? Our place still needs some miscellaneous storage, but we're sitting on throw pillows on the cheap, terrible futon in order to avoid buying a new mattress for it. We don't really NEED any shelving to stay organized, so we're avoiding that for now (if we have some shelves, they'll just want attractive poo poo to fill them anyway). We're going to need an entry mat once snow starts piling up, and we'll have to buy some salt, a snow shovel, and a new scraper for my windshield, and, and... Basically we spend a bit of time each week getting a hang on how much the items we need cost by biking to like Canadian Tire and Home Hardware during our grocery runs and then wait for those items to go on sale. We missed out on one for frames last week because it wasn't in the budget, but yeah. And we went for sushi last night so spent all of our monthly fun money. Not a big deal. Last month we went and saw Looper (and we ate pizza). The 60-90 bucks/month that we feel alright about spending on fun each month seems to get us one satisfying outing that we get to plan and talk about for weeks before we do it. It's kind of nice, actually. tuyop fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 12:11
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I also quit smoking smoking, we budgeted $120 a month for that, but I'm sure I actually spent more.
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Nov 5, 2012 12:49
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ToeShoes posted:I also quit smoking smoking, we budgeted $120 a month for that, but I'm sure I actually spent more. So, by quitting an unhealthy hobby, in just one month, you've saved enough to buy your winter workout clothes AND a new pair of running shoes for Tuyop. That's great, well done.
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Nov 5, 2012 12:58
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ToeShoes posted:I also quit smoking smoking, we budgeted $120 a month for that, but I'm sure I actually spent more. Congratulations! 
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Nov 5, 2012 16:07
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I think toeshoes and I really like and respond well to challenges. I want to have like Buy Nothing (except groceries and gasoline) months and stuff. What are some other types of frugality and savings challenges we could throw into the mix? I'm sure toeshoes has done so well at the quitting smoking because she refused to do it my way and I told her that my way was the only route to success. Every time we do one of these, like the 30 day list, the result is so positive. Even when we looked at getting rid of the iPhones, it was great because it caused me to look at what this thing actually does to improve my life (if anything) compared to the alternatives. Before, I had a fairly unconscious, compulsive relationship with my cell phone and bill, now I see it a bit differently.
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Nov 5, 2012 16:26
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Don't Buy A Grow Op Month (November 2012)
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Nov 5, 2012 16:46
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Electricity savings challenge. There are a few simple ideas which can save on electricity costs. If you are not in a room switch the light off. I know some people that have lights on throughout their entire house for no reason at all. Only heat the areas of your dwelling that you are using. Heating costs are substantial and limiting the space being heated. Don't use so little heating that your health suffers just efficient. You can limit hot water heating costs by using less hot water. You can save by keeping showers to a minimum. Switch appliances and computers off if you're not using them, or put your computer into sleep or hibernation. If you have wireless or you have fixed data cost use you iPhone for surfing the net. An iPhone uses less power than a computer. Cut down on standby power. Leaving chargers plugged in and all those devices with their standby light on all use power. It's not much power but it adds up. A lot of devices like TVs, consoles, etc. can be switched off or unplugged. By switching off a 400W growing light you can save almost 10kW.hours per day by switching it off (if it's running 24 hours a day).
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Nov 5, 2012 17:36
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^^ This, a thousand times this. And congratulations, ToeShoes! That's pretty awesome 
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Nov 5, 2012 17:36
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Isn't his power bill included in his rent? I mean, it's still good to develop energy-saving habits, but it's not going to affect his budget at all.
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Nov 5, 2012 21:07
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Leperflesh posted:Isn't his power bill included in his rent? Using less electricity is a stand-in for having fewer expensive hobbies or making impulsive purchases that need electricity. It's not just about light switches.
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Nov 5, 2012 21:28
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Correct it's about financial discipline. It's still worth making the energy savings as it's a good habit but it can help keep rent increases to a minimum. One place I lived in the we used a lot of power and the landlord had to increase rent so he still made money. Tuyop needs to think before buying a room full of growing lamps which will make the landlord freak out when he sees the next power bill.
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Nov 5, 2012 21:41
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I'd say that all of the turning off of CFLs in the world – though a noble and worthy practice for all sorts of reasons – is negated by the fact that toeshoes and I run our stove and oven for more than 30 minutes a night because we don't have a microwave. We're fine with this situation right now, the only downside is that running the broiler up to several hundred degrees just to heat up some sausage and quinoa takes fifteen minutes or so rather than the 50 seconds that it would take a microwave. Until that power usage is monetized somehow, we're probably not getting a microwave or a more efficient way to reheat food, and all the other changes we might make to save power are silly and tiny. I mean we only spend 3.5 hours a day awake in the apartment, how much power can we be using with our weeknight ritual of reading books and watching tv shows on my desktop?
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Nov 5, 2012 22:24
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You could maybe try heating food up using the range top instead of the whole oven? Also, I bet you could get a working microwave oven from a thrift store for like $25.
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Nov 5, 2012 22:33
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tuyop posted:I'd say that all of the turning off of CFLs in the world – though a noble and worthy practice for all sorts of reasons – is negated by the fact that toeshoes and I run our stove and oven for more than 30 minutes a night because we don't have a microwave. We're fine with this situation right now, the only downside is that running the broiler up to several hundred degrees just to heat up some sausage and quinoa takes fifteen minutes or so rather than the 50 seconds that it would take a microwave. Overall it doesn't sound too bad. A microwave is a time saver but there's nothing wrong with spending time cooking, there's worse things you could do. Reading books and watching tv shows isn't much of an issue for power use either. Time for someone else to suggest a challenge.
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Nov 5, 2012 22:54
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How about a different suggestion. We won't be able to make our rent cheaper by using less electricity.
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Nov 6, 2012 00:52
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On your upcoming debt graphs, please make the BASIL line green. Or fish poop colored would be OK too.
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Nov 6, 2012 00:56
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You two are already trimmed fairly close to the bone. How about a fun challenge, like finding a free/cheap hobby that you enjoy and can share (learn some uber-difficult card game, learn to draw, watch and compare classic films...be creative)? Idea being to try something new, give it a month to see if it catches on, and experience it together while spending no extra money?
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Nov 6, 2012 00:57
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Never you mind posted:You two are already trimmed fairly close to the bone. How about a fun challenge, like finding a free/cheap hobby that you enjoy and can share (learn some uber-difficult card game, learn to draw, watch and compare classic films...be creative)? Idea being to try something new, give it a month to see if it catches on, and experience it together while spending no extra money? That's a great idea, we had an awesome time with Gin in the summer, but it's really simple. I think it would be really cool to learn some vegetarian cuisine. We could take a huge chunk out of our grocery bill (and ecological footprint) if we could go without meat for more days, and it'll be a challenge to fit the cumulative ~400g of protein (180g for toeshoes, 220 for me. We usually hit a fraction of that, though) that we try to eat each day into the diet.
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Nov 6, 2012 03:01
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Learn to play mahjong. You need 2 other players tho.
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Nov 6, 2012 03:03
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Cribbage is good for two people, and not too simple. Setting some goals about cooking for yourselves is a great idea, too, since it lets you be more healthy, more frugal, and can lead to finding new dishes you enjoy. It's a nice way to spend time together, too.
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Nov 6, 2012 05:37
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Learn to play Go, there is even a thread about it in Ask/Tell here. Go is an ancient Chinese strategy game that is more complex than Chess. The rules are fairly simple but the strategy is very deep. There is even a goon room on KGS (one of the main go servers) where we play games and hang out, it is fun.
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Nov 6, 2012 06:30
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Werewolf is misspelled in the thread title and it's like nails on a chalkboard for me. 
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Nov 6, 2012 11:29
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tuyop posted:Werewolf is misspelled in the thread title and it's like nails on a chalkboard for me. Warewolves are different, instead of men turning into wolves, they're goods turning into wolves. Like transformers, or kitchen utensils. And it surprises me that you haven't realized what would happens when you tell this thread that something grates you so.
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Nov 6, 2012 12:17
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quaint bucket posted:Learn to play mahjong. You need 2 other players tho. Japanese style ideal, Riichi mah jongg is where it's at.
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Nov 6, 2012 13:33
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Alright guys, here we go. November is Your Money or Your Life month! Your Money or Your Life: Nine Steps to Transforming Your Relationship With Money and Achieving Financial Independence. Step 1 is reading the title of the book without stopping for breath AKA YMOYL Step 1: Make peace with the past. A. Basically, calculate how much money you've ever made. B. Figure out your net worth. Toeshoes and I are going to do this step separately because it'll be easier to for you guys to keep track of. Step 1 is going to be mostly estimated, since from 1998-2004 I made less than 1k a year and there are no tax documents for it. 2004-2005 tax docs are in storage with all my furniture. These are all gross numbers. I've been working since 1998, when I was 10. I counted cars for my dad's architectural firm for around 3.50 an hour. I was saving for a PS1 and my parents told me that they'd match me dollar for dollar to get one (  ). Two years later I got bigger and stronger and started shoveling snow for people during the end of the winter and I came home one day with 65 dollars. My dad told me that I made more that day than he had. I was loving rich! Then I did a lot of landscaping for 3-5 dollars an hour and helped around various odd construction jobs. I dug holes, moved gravel, smashed driveways and planters with hammers. It was all kinds of terrible, tiring, sweaty, menial shitwork. Then I saved my earnings and spent like 30% of them during the school year on candies and stupid stuff. I started a bank account with the rest. So, by year it looks something like this: 1998: 200 1999: 200 2000: 300 2001: 300 2002: 300 2003: 600 (did some courier work for my dad's firm in addition to the odd jobs) When I turned 16 I got a job in a Harvey’s. Then I quit and started working in a gas station. For the next six years I did gas station/convenience store jobs for a little bit more than minimum wage. I can pull up tax documents on these numbers from 2006 onward so the accuracy will improve. 2004: 8000 2005: 8000 All of this money went into my high school cars (1x1992 Mazda Protege and 2x1992 Mazda 323 <3) except for almost 4k that I was saving for when I left home. I moved out at 18 because of a stressful and increasingly violent situation with my younger sister at home. I grossly underestimated living expenses and couldn't find parttime work so I spent all of my savings and I also started university in September 06. My debt mountain had begun! 2006: 9775 At the beginning of 07 I joined the military as a reservist and made hella paper. 2007: 15000 (tax forms not in my files here for some reason) In September 08 I joined the regular force and made more of that army green. 2008: 25510 2009: 29073 Graduated university in Spring 2010 and started making that grown-up money. I had my student loans (18k) and around 5k in CC debt from my lavish and wonderful vacations. On the DAY that I submitted my thesis I was offered a 7500 dollar extension on my visa. "Why not?" I said. Due to pay fuckups, I was paid -200 dollars a pay from May to September. I ended up living on my Visa and maxed it out by July I was not frugal at all during this time and remember many 400 dollar bar tab nights. Things were kind of retarded. I also bought the car but it had delayed payments until October or something so I was still sort of solvent. I also drove to and from NS literally every weekend for about $100 in gas. I got backpaid the difference, sort of. 2010: 43562 In May 2011 I realized that I was living outside of my means somehow. I posted this thread. 2011: 52289 2012 so far: 45125 (net is 38246 according to mint.com, which makes me worry for my tax bill or my tracking ability) Total lifetime income: $193 109 Wow! What happened to all that dough? Step 1 A complete. Step 1 B: Net Worth (What have you got to show for it? Ouch.) All estimates are conservative. Assets: Car: $11 000 Camera and lenses: $800 Computer: $450 Misc Electronics and Furniture: $1 200 Total Assets: $13 450 Debts: Student Loan: -$15 004 Visa: -$11 312 Car Loan: -$20 147 Total debts: -46 463 Net Worth: -$33 013 oh boy! So yeah, step 1 is done! Edit: This means that, for the past 14 years, I have spent about 44 dollars a day, every single day. Hm. Step 2 is tracking your life energy, this will be fun! tuyop fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Nov 7, 2012 |
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Nov 7, 2012 00:00
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tuyop posted:Step 1 B: Net Worth (What have you got to show for it? Ouch.) I think you should keep in mind that its not very likely that your net worth is going to match your total income or usually be very close. When you consider a good portion of peoples spending is consumable items like food, clothes, hygenic products etc that are necessary but can't be tracked as assets.
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Nov 7, 2012 00:22
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Step 2: How much are you trading your life energy for? A: Calculate real hourly wage B: Track every cent of income and expense Step 2 A The point of this step is realizing that your work costs a lot more than you think it does, and also figuring out that money = life energy. Most people go out to lunch, buy expensive suits and shoes and even cars and homes, all because of their work. If they didn’t work, they would have different and/or fewer expenses. Their job also doesn’t usually go from 9-5 (7:30 to 4:30 in my case). The hours are extended by prepping for your work day and decompressing from your work day. All of the other things that people do due to their work also have to be noted. In my case I took a lot of vacations because I hated university and my job most of the time. I’m working on these impulses now and I think I’m getting better at vacating stress through free and productive activities. I’m going to post a table for this, because poo poo gets complicated. I’ve analyzed my spending for three months and figured it out by work related expense, and only tabulated time and money spent due to work. So gym clothes and working out are not included, neither is cooking because I would do that poo poo anyway. Toeshoes and I went through our days and figured out the time sink. For instance, we wake up at 5 to get to work for 7 to start at 7:30. She spends 20 minutes on hair and female things, I spend about 10 on shaving and male things, but a lot of that time before we leave for work is breakfasting and chatting over coffee because I like mornings. We both spend like 20 minutes a week polishing and costuming. Et cetera. I’ve amortized certain expenses such as Christmas vacation and car payment. Here’s a table:  Now take income and subtract work expenses and divide by real hours worked! Income = 690.71/wk – 88.62 = 602.09 / 2671 minutes = 13.52/hour Step 2 B I've been doing that for the past year. I'd say there's a very low margin of error there, especially in 2012. The only thing I've failed to do is properly account for cash. As soon as cash left my bank account it was basically considered gone, regardless of what I did with it. For the past couple of weeks we've been keeping track of the cash expenses too. Toeshoes is very much not diligent about where her money goes, so this step is going to be more useful for her at this time. So yeah, Step 2 done. I'd say that Step 3 is my favorite that I've read about. But I'm waiting for toeshoes to catch up so that we can build a table together and really get to the most powerful part of YMOYL.
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Nov 7, 2012 00:40
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tuyop posted:That's a great idea, we had an awesome time with Gin in the summer, but it's really simple.
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Nov 7, 2012 00:49
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