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That Suzuki thing pisses me the hell off, I was all ready to get an SX4 in a few years because it was the cheapest car you could get with AWD. gently caress. At least I like Subaru.
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Nov 7, 2012 02:19
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Bovril Delight posted:Apparently BMW is set to release a score of diesels over the next few years. Next year is a 3 series sedan and a 3 series sportwagen, both presumably with the 2.0L 180hp/280tq turbo diesel BMW has. A 5 series, 7 series, X3 and X5 all eventually follow. I know this is such a stereotypically enthusiast thing to say, but if BMW launches a diesel, AWD, manual 3-series wagon in the USA I will almost certainly buy one (and take Euro delivery!), preferably the 335d but I would consider the 2.0L as well. I can afford to put my money where my mouth is; your move, BMW. Unfortunately, I have no doubts that it will be automatic-only like the previous 335d. 
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Nov 7, 2012 02:51
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Cream_Filling posted:Dunno, the Galant seems pretty terrible. They still make that, right? It's been pretty much unchanged for almost a decade, too. I'm pretty sure they announced they were killing the Galant a couple months ago.
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Nov 7, 2012 03:27
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Q_res posted:I'm pretty sure they announced they were killing the Galant a couple months ago. Does Mitsubishi have any new products to replace their dead models? A bit of googling turns up some press releases from early 2011 claiming an increased focus on hybrids & electrics, but the timelines there were pretty long (~2015). Does it even make sense for them to stay open in the US that long?
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Nov 7, 2012 04:06
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The current Car & Driver magazine has an editorial on the death of Mitsubishi.
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Nov 7, 2012 04:19
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Guinness posted:I know this is such a stereotypically enthusiast thing to say, but if BMW launches a diesel, AWD, manual 3-series wagon in the USA I will almost certainly buy one (and take Euro delivery!), preferably the 335d but I would consider the 2.0L as well. I can afford to put my money where my mouth is; your move, BMW.  says every single one of them will be automatic-only, AWD-only, and unavailable sports packages (with possible exception of RWD/AWD on 3-series sedan). It has been confirmed that all USA-spec diesels will be 8-speed autos only.At least we can now get a proper diesel wagon in the US other than the Jetta. I've already had more than one conversation with the factory sales guys at Mercedes telling them I haven't bought a new E-series yet because I can't get the diesel/wagon combo. I even went so far as to say they should drop the gas wagon model entirely stateside and offer only the diesel. When was the last time you saw a non-diesel Jetta wagon?
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Nov 7, 2012 07:58
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Bovril Delight posted:If this turns out to be the case, I can only hope they release the 3 series with a manual option. I know the previous 335d was only automatic due to BMW saying the manual couldn't handle the torque. I remember walking into a BMW dealership and the salesmen didn't know that BMW sold a diesel model in the USA but there was a sole 335d on the lot.
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Nov 7, 2012 08:10
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CharlesM posted:The current Car & Driver magazine has an editorial on the death of Mitsubishi. Mitsubishi? You mean Suzuki, right?
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Nov 7, 2012 08:30
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No
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Nov 7, 2012 09:14
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How bout just a bit more info? Like, what did the author say about the presumed impending death?
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Nov 7, 2012 09:41
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EnergizerFellow posted:When was the last time you saw a non-diesel Jetta wagon? Isn't that more because they don't sell the better petrol engines in the USA? I reckon the 90TSI is way nicer to drive than the 103TDI, and only marginally less fuel efficient.
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Nov 7, 2012 11:06
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Yeah, in the US you either get the TDI or the horrible 5 cylinder.
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Nov 7, 2012 11:26
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kimbo305 posted:How bout just a bit more info? Like, what did the author say about the presumed impending death? I gotta reread it for more specifics and the fact I have poo poo memory, but he mentions the fact DaimlerChrysler had a stake in it and made them share platforms between the Outlander (Sport?), Galant (I think?) and Eclipse (heavy!) to save costs was a very poor choice. They don't have any compelling vehicles and their sales are a fraction of what they were about 10 years ago. He predicts their withdrawal from the U.S. market.
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Nov 7, 2012 13:16
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Well there goes any hopes of the Evo coming back. Sigh.
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Nov 7, 2012 15:37
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Q_res posted:Yeah, in the US you either get the TDI or the horrible 5 cylinder. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=25317&id=25316&id=25315&id=25314 http://reviews.cnet.com/wagon/2009-volkswagen-jetta-sportwagen/4505-10866_7-33664882.html
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Nov 7, 2012 16:21
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KidDynamite posted:Well there goes any hopes of the Evo coming back. Sigh. on the bright side, the STi is going strong and there are many practical yet fun and somewhat affordable options out there.
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Nov 7, 2012 17:03
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KidDynamite posted:Well there goes any hopes of the Evo coming back. Sigh. To be fair, any hotted-up AWD compact is a hard sell for any company these days; you're taking a fuel economy penalty to have AWD there, and CAFE is going to put the screws to them sooner or later. Honestly, I don't know how Subaru is going to continue with their all-AWD, all the time lineup.
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Nov 7, 2012 17:22
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IOwnCalculus posted:To be fair, any hotted-up AWD compact is a hard sell for any company these days; you're taking a fuel economy penalty to have AWD there, and CAFE is going to put the screws to them sooner or later. When Mitsubishi was doing 0% APR on them about four years ago, I almost bought a base Evo X, but I balked, in part because the fuel economy was so so so lovely, something like 16/22.
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Nov 7, 2012 18:43
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IOwnCalculus posted:To be fair, any hotted-up AWD compact is a hard sell for any company these days; you're taking a fuel economy penalty to have AWD there, and CAFE is going to put the screws to them sooner or later. Betting hard on CAFE light truck loopholes and the CVT.
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Nov 7, 2012 19:35
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IOwnCalculus posted:To be fair, any hotted-up AWD compact is a hard sell for any company these days; you're taking a fuel economy penalty to have AWD there, and CAFE is going to put the screws to them sooner or later. CVT and hopefully the diesel version of their engines will help quite a bit.
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Nov 7, 2012 19:43
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EnergizerFellow posted:
Agreed on the first points except for AWD; I'd be surprised if they made the diesel available with AWD, let alone AWD only, considering there was no AWD option for the 3 series diesel in the US in the past. As for the 2.5 Jetta wagon, I see a shocking number of them around the SF bay area. A significant majority are the TDI, but I'd estimate around 15-20% of the wagons I see are the 2.5, and I shake my head every time I see one.
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Nov 7, 2012 20:26
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Steve French posted:As for the 2.5 Jetta wagon, I see a shocking number of them around the SF bay area. A significant majority are the TDI, but I'd estimate around 15-20% of the wagons I see are the 2.5, and I shake my head every time I see one. Can someone catch me up with what's so wrong with the VAG 5 cylinder? I know 2.0 bad 1.8T good, but what's wrong with the 2.5?
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Nov 7, 2012 20:49
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Weinertron posted:Can someone catch me up with what's so wrong with the VAG 5 cylinder? I know 2.0 bad 1.8T good, but what's wrong with the 2.5? Goes like a 4, drinks like a 6 and is old-school cast iron heavy.
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Nov 7, 2012 21:16
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Is that petrol or diesel 2.5?
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Nov 7, 2012 21:25
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Gas NA 2.5 5-cyl making like 170ish hp, diesel 2.0T 4-cyl making 140.
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Nov 7, 2012 21:36
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KozmoNaut posted:Goes like a 4, drinks like a 6 and is old-school cast iron heavy. Yeah, I never really understood the 2.5 engine. It seems like it should be trivial to get the same about of power out of a non-turbo variant of the 2.0L FSI engine. It also seems like they could share a significant number of parts to save money.
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Nov 7, 2012 22:03
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Guinness posted:I know this is such a stereotypically enthusiast thing to say, but if BMW launches a diesel, AWD, manual 3-series wagon in the USA I will almost certainly buy one (and take Euro delivery!), preferably the 335d but I would consider the 2.0L as well. I can afford to put my money where my mouth is; your move, BMW. The new Autoboxes are really loving good though and I am moderately regretting getting a 6-speed MT on my F10. First gear is short as poo poo and with all the electronics and poo poo you have to run with your right hand you are really annoyed in traffic. Still love the MT in my old E46 though.
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Nov 7, 2012 22:15
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So I've heard about the latest 8-speed autos in the new BMWs. Honestly, I might even consider the 8-speed auto in an AWD 335d Wagon. But if I capitulated on the transmission and went with the auto, it would absolutely have to be the 335d wagon with AWD.
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Nov 7, 2012 22:21
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Guinness posted:So I've heard about the latest 8-speed autos in the new BMWs. Honestly, I might even consider the 8-speed auto in an AWD 335d Wagon. But if I capitulated on the transmission and went with the auto, it would absolutely have to be the 335d wagon with AWD.
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Nov 7, 2012 22:32
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You are crushing my dreams. Guess the E46 isn't going anywhere any time soon.
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Nov 7, 2012 22:46
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Steve French posted:Agreed on the first points except for AWD; I'd be surprised if they made the diesel available with AWD, let alone AWD only, considering there was no AWD option for the 3 series diesel in the US in the past.
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Nov 7, 2012 23:26
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KozmoNaut posted:Goes like a 4, drinks like a 6 and is old-school cast iron heavy. Don't forget how horrible it sounds, like an atomic Cuisinart, honestly if it was a 4 I would have assumed there was something deeply wrong with it. Revs about as slowly as an old big block V8. Thoroughly unenjoyable motor, that they're killing it is great news as far as I'm concerned.
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Nov 7, 2012 23:59
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Bovril Delight posted:Apparently BMW is set to release a score of diesels over the next few years. Next year is a 3 series sedan and a 3 series sportwagen, both presumably with the 2.0L 180hp/280tq turbo diesel BMW has. A 5 series, 7 series, X3 and X5 all eventually follow. Transport Canada did just finish testing 118d's and sold them off (for export only) now they have a bunch of Citron's and VW bluemotions in there lab.
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Nov 8, 2012 21:12
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KidDynamite posted:Well there goes any hopes of the Evo coming back. Sigh. There didn't seem to be much chance of that anyway.
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Nov 8, 2012 23:42
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KidDynamite posted:Well there goes any hopes of the Evo coming back. Sigh. The lancer evo, yes, but imagine an i-MiEV evo.
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Nov 9, 2012 00:32
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Powershift posted:The lancer evo, yes, but imagine an i-MiEV evo. Just a side note. I smile every tine I drive by the local mitsu dealer because they are basically a scummy used car dealer that happens to have 20 new mitsubishis on the lot. Their featured vehicle for the last month ha been an 08 King Ranch f-150 with 95k kms on it and they want $33, 995 for it. I paid less than $15k for an 06 with 128k kms and more options E:dammit, missed the edit button
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Nov 9, 2012 00:37
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Throatwarbler posted:But what I really want to talk about is whether we are now at a moment where a sea change is happening with V8 engines. The new 4.0l Audi V8 is set up similarly to the new BMW turbo V8. The intake and exhaust is reversed, with the intake on the outside and the exhaust in the valley of the engine. This is done presumably because the engine is designed from the ground up for forced induction. The packaging of the exhaust in the valley is a bit more complex and probably requires some expensive heat resistance treatment, especially since the intercoolers are also packed in there. The advantage of this setup is detailed here. Note that the new Ford turbo diesel V8 has the same setup, as did GM's light duty diesel V8 before it was cancelled. Both are presumably also designed from the ground up for forced induction. I bet it depends on how hard CAFE squeezes. As nicely tuned as new car are, big power is tought to make fuel efficient. In the 500+hp arena, will there be room for both traditional NA V8s and FI V8s? Presumably, the FI motors will be smaller to make the same power and hopefully be a bit more fuel efficient. GM just released the GenV smallblock, so that's gonna have a lifespan of at least 10 years.
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Nov 9, 2012 06:33
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Powershift posted:Just a side note. I smile every tine I drive by the local mitsu dealer because they are basically a scummy used car dealer that happens to have 20 new mitsubishis on the lot. Their featured vehicle for the last month ha been an 08 King Ranch f-150 with 95k kms on it and they want $33, 995 for it. I paid less than $15k for an 06 with 128k kms and more options This must be a common thing because there's a few of these in my area too. The "Mitsubishi dealer" with a few token Lancers and Outlanders, then a sea of awful cars all with around 90k miles going for $8-9k in their offshoot "King of Credit" lot. I guess it'll be an easy transition when Mitsu finally pulls out of the US, their dealers will just devote more time to ripping used car buyers off.
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Nov 9, 2012 07:00
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kimbo305 posted:I bet it depends on how hard CAFE squeezes. As nicely tuned as new car are, big power is tought to make fuel efficient. The thing was that there never really were any turbo charged V8s in the past - How many can you name? I guess for the reasons of the exhaust pulses and packaging. Having an efficient turbo V8 required a completely new ground up engine design, which Audi and BMW have now done. I don't think they are going to make any NA versions of those engines. MB's 5.5l AMG engine still uses a traditional intake/exhaust flow direction though.
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Nov 9, 2012 08:38
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Throatwarbler posted:I don't think they are going to make any NA versions of those engines. Yeah, they certainly don't need to. My main point was what their goals are. The pushrod motors are pretty small and can probably deliver decent emissions/fuel economy. I don't see a majority transition to valley-side exhaust happening in this decade.
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Nov 9, 2012 09:04
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