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It depends on the animal, the client, the clinic, the techs and the vet so I don't really think that generalizing is worth anyone's time. Ultimately, the best situation is the one that creates the least stress for the animal and the least chance of anyone getting hurt. Most owners do not know how to properly restrain a dog or cat so that it can't reach around and bite/scratch somebody. For things like blood draws, the person restraining is way more important than the one doing the draw IMO. You have to read the animal and what works for them. And the average pet tends to be more easily distracted and anxious if the owner is standing there within their field of vision or range of hearing. So many will default to taking the pet elsewhere for anything more invasive than a temperature. I do think that it's important to do physical exams in the owner's presence if at all possible though. It's much more effective at conveying the importance of the physical exam to the owner, it makes them feel like they're getting their money's worth for the vet's time and expertise, and you can actually show them any abnormalities you find and IMO that makes it easier to discuss further diagnostic and treatment options.
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Nov 10, 2012 21:16
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Captain Foxy posted:Virtually any kind of dog/owner goes to a groomer, so I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to make here. The stuff you need at the vet is something all dog owners should be able to handle, i.e. restraining your dog for a little while until something mildly uncomfortable is done. I know not everyone IS able to trim nails or deal with minor scratches or small wounds or whatever everyday stuff, but I still think it should be something that every dog owner can do for themselves.
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Nov 10, 2012 21:27
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Topoisomerase posted:the least stress for the animal Balen must be broken. He starts prancing and dancing when I tell him we're going to the vet, practically drags me through the door at the vet and thinks it's the best thing ever. Stands perfectly still for shots, blood draws, doesn't yank his limbs away. He's better behaved for them sometimes than he is for me.  This is because they greet him by name in squeaky voices and rub his ears and give him like 10 cookies while he's there, every single time.
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Nov 10, 2012 21:31
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Topoisomerase posted:I do think that it's important to do physical exams in the owner's presence if at all possible though. It's much more effective at conveying the importance of the physical exam to the owner, it makes them feel like they're getting their money's worth for the vet's time and expertise, and you can actually show them any abnormalities you find and IMO that makes it easier to discuss further diagnostic and treatment options. I agree. Also, from a customer side, I think it's important to see that your vet/vet techs do care about your dog's comfort and stress levels as far as is practical. If I had a normal dog, I would probably let them take her in the back without fuss, but I'd be much happier about it if I had seen how they handled her in the exam room. Our vet office has several vets that we've seen and I am much happier (as is Psyche) with the ones that make an effort to make her comfortable, seem to care about whether or not she likes them (she never will, but they try anyway!), and inquire about how her behavioral training is coming along. And, of course, there are apparently vets out there who do stupid things like grab a fearful dog from behind or apply punishments in inappropriate ways, and if you never saw this happening because you weren't allowed in the room, you'd never know that you need a new vet until your dog develops a complex.
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Nov 10, 2012 21:35
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:This is because they greet him by name in squeaky voices and rub his ears and give him like 10 cookies while he's there, every single time. 
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Nov 10, 2012 21:36
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I hand trim and scissor Keeper myself, sure, and his daily combing is done by me, but there's a lot of stuff I can't do myself to make him look tidy, plus there are things I simply can't do with my equipment. Not only that, it's important for him to be accustomed to being handled by other people so he isn't a bitey little rat, and time at the groomers can be very positive for him, so that he isn't always used to only one person grooming him. In addition to all that, a twice yearly trim keeps his undercoat healthy and growing correctly. I can't do that on my own, and it would be incredibly impractical and arrogant of me to assume I would know how to do it properly without having been taught. I'm not the only one, either; pretty much all the dog people I know are responsible owners who groom their dogs themselves but also take them in for a pro groom simply just because it looks nice. Does that make them negligent owners who don't know how to handle their own dogs? Yeah, I'm going with no.
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Nov 10, 2012 21:37
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HookShot posted:My vet does this with Terra and yet still the instant we get into the office she starts whining and pawing at the door to go back outside because BAD PLACE. Well admittedly, the second anyone comes in the room with us Kaydee still hides under my legs, under the bench they have for folks to sit on and looks ABSOLUTELY MISERABLE. Ears bag, tail tucked, brows peaked at just the right place to make her look like she's listening to her death sentence. She's never gone for anybody and I doubt she would, but I still ask for a muzzle for her just in case. Ires baroo-roo-roos and gleefully wiggles, and Amy's dumbass gets stuck between HOLY poo poo HI and OH GOD mode so she just kind of collapses into a broken dog puddle or tries to leap all over the vet and it's impossible to tell which she's going to do when we go. So 2 out of 4 isn't bad. Right? ...Right?  Captain Foxy posted:pretty much all the dog people I know are responsible owners who groom their dogs themselves but also take them in for a pro groom simply just because it looks nice. Does that make them negligent owners who don't know how to handle their own dogs? Yeah, I'm going with no. I bathe the danes and the little ones whenever they need it here at home, but I don't exactly have all the tools my groomer has, so whenever I want them to look pretty, just like you said, they go to the groomer.
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Nov 10, 2012 21:48
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Topoisomerase posted:I do think that it's important to do physical exams in the owner's presence if at all possible though. It's much more effective at conveying the importance of the physical exam to the owner, it makes them feel like they're getting their money's worth for the vet's time and expertise, and you can actually show them any abnormalities you find and IMO that makes it easier to discuss further diagnostic and treatment options.
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Nov 10, 2012 21:55
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My dog impersonating (indoginating?) a corgi. Also, possibly levitating
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Nov 10, 2012 22:13
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Enelrahc posted:But the one thing that will never change is that the client starts talking when the vet tries to listen to the heart and the lungs with the stethoscope. It's like instant story time.
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Nov 10, 2012 22:14
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I had to take one of my rats to the vet recently, for the first time. The vet was very glad to have me hold her, actually, and I'm glad for it. Molly's a sweetheart and was pretty cooperative about the whole thing, even let the vet check her teeth, but being manhandled into position was stressful and it did take both of us to hold her under the stethoscope. As long as I could stroke her head she was fine. If I stopped, she starting wiggling. By the end of it she walked over to me and buried her head against my stomach, and wouldn't turn around, like she was trying very hard to ignore the existence of the vet. Shortly after she climbed up to my shoulder, snuggled in, boggled fiercely, and refused to move. It all went pretty smoothly, but I can't imagine how much more difficult it would have been if I hadn't been allowed to help.
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Nov 10, 2012 22:26
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Both Moses and Frankie love the vet and want to go live there and are totally ecstatic about anything and everything that is done to them. The only issue they ever have is that Frankie starts barkbarking whenever I start a conversation with the vet because "NO. ME. LOOK AT ME!" and he will not shut up and if I try to shut him up he just barks in my face like "NO! ME! LOOK AT ME!" whole Moses does vaginamouth and wiggles. 
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Nov 10, 2012 22:29
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Topoisomerase posted:It depends on the animal, the client, the clinic, the techs and the vet so I don't really think that generalizing is worth anyone's time. Ultimately, the best situation is the one that creates the least stress for the animal and the least chance of anyone getting hurt. Most owners do not know how to properly restrain a dog or cat so that it can't reach around and bite/scratch somebody. For things like blood draws, the person restraining is way more important than the one doing the draw IMO. You have to read the animal and what works for them. And the average pet tends to be more easily distracted and anxious if the owner is standing there within their field of vision or range of hearing. So many will default to taking the pet elsewhere for anything more invasive than a temperature. This made me realize that a big reason they let me handle Beck most of the time is probably because I do know how to restrain a dog safely from my time working in a shelter. She kind of enjoys going to the vet just because she likes to do things with me and meet people when it's safe (ie, I'm nearby and she approaches first). Skylar used to get all O___O about it so I'd have one dog offering to high-five the vet and the other sitting with her face in the corner hoping that no one noticed her.
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Nov 10, 2012 23:01
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SuperTwo posted:I usually ask to help and ask that they do the procedures in front of me as long as they're fairly minor. Rixatrix posted:
EDIT: There is a positive reinforcement trainer right up the road for me, has been doing it for 30 years. She is B-U-S-Y. How do I go about asking if she needs help? She seems like an awesome sweet old lady 
The Big Whoop fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Nov 10, 2012 |
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Nov 10, 2012 23:10
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Enelrahc posted:But the one thing that will never change is that the client starts talking when the vet tries to listen to the heart and the lungs with the stethoscope. It's like instant story time. One of the vets at the office where I take our animals likes to ask a question right before he starts listening to the stethoscope, so I feel like an idiot if I answer, and an idiot if I don't answer. He seems kind of clueless when it comes to dealing with human beings, so I'm sure it's related to that. He's great with the animals, though.
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Nov 10, 2012 23:21
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The Big Whoop posted:Is this a thing that's allowed? In grooming, we usually say they're not allowed behind our gates for insurance reasons. I'd really like to sit in on some neuters/procedures! I'm really interested in the whole medical side of things. I think SuperTwo meant minor things like shots, etc. I really doubt they would let the owner sit in on surgeries.
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Nov 10, 2012 23:23
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Enelrahc posted:But the one thing that will never change is that the client starts talking when the vet tries to listen to the heart and the lungs with the stethoscope. It's like instant story time. I'm not above shooting them a 'yo shut up' look while I'm listening. If you're not a total dick, ignore them until they shut up, but keep ausculting. Eventually they shut up, you listen as long as you need to, then you look up and say something to indicate that you have no idea what they just said. These are my strategies at the VMTH. edit: Also I find that I don't have this problem as frequently if I actually say to the client "I am going to take a listen to Cujo's heart/lungs now to see if there are any problems with them," pause to see if I get to hear about grandpa's heart attack or whatever, and then make a big production out of putting the stethoscope earpieces in my ears and my head close to the animal. Topoisomerase fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Nov 10, 2012 |
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Nov 10, 2012 23:38
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Captain Foxy posted:I'm not the only one, either; pretty much all the dog people I know are responsible owners who groom their dogs themselves but also take them in for a pro groom simply just because it looks nice. Does that make them negligent owners who don't know how to handle their own dogs? Yeah, I'm going with no. Dog hair is an important issue. I mostly deal with it with a vacuum cleaner. Others need more sophisticated equipment and a lot more skill and I realize that  When ausculting I usually just tell people that they need to be quiet for a moment so I can hear. It nearly always works. Rixatrix fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Nov 10, 2012 |
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Nov 10, 2012 23:49
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Rixatrix posted:When ausculting I usually just tell people that they need to be quiet for a moment so I can hear. It nearly always works. People get really butthurt at being directly told to be quiet a lot of times. In what context are you listening to people's animals?
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Nov 11, 2012 00:55
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RazorBunny posted:One of the vets at the office where I take our animals likes to ask a question right before he starts listening to the stethoscope, so I feel like an idiot if I answer, and an idiot if I don't answer. He seems kind of clueless when it comes to dealing with human beings, so I'm sure it's related to that. He's great with the animals, though. This. This right here. My vet ALWAYS asks me a big question right as she is putting the stethoscope in and I can't shut up and I feel like I'm a big bother but I have to answer.
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Nov 11, 2012 01:23
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Honestly, I don't trust half of my classmates to restrain an animal for me, let alone an owner with no veterinary experience. I am also a huge hypocrite and get real peeved if someone won't let me restrain my own pet. 
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Nov 11, 2012 01:47
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Ugh. All of my favorite mouse pups (personality and color/patterning) are male. Every single last one. I'm gonna see if the store will let me keep two of my favorites, but I doubt they will. They've got a really high need for small feeders right now. So I gave them some treats in case they're all leaving tomorrow anyway. It still sucks because there's one in particular that's a chocolate and white, with this neat little wavy patterning on his back. Why couldn't you have been a female, huh? You and the little one with the brown ring around his nose?
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Nov 11, 2012 02:31
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:Ugh. All of my favorite mouse pups (personality and color/patterning) are male. Every single last one. I'm gonna see if the store will let me keep two of my favorites, but I doubt they will. They've got a really high need for small feeders right now. Why not keep them so you can breed them back into your stock? Especially if they turn out to be mellow dudes. There's always tanks n' such on craigslist.
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Nov 11, 2012 02:40
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The Big Whoop posted:Why not keep them so you can breed them back into your stock? Especially if they turn out to be mellow dudes. There's always tanks n' such on craigslist. Sure, and that's going to be my argument, but they're the pet shop's mice. They're basically leasing the floor space from me with store discounts. They basically say who stays and goes (though I've got some say too), and they already said they wanted the males. I'm still totally gonna see if they'll work with me on it, though. E: Hey! We're PI again! ...When did that happen? Fluffy Bunnies fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Nov 11, 2012 |
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Nov 11, 2012 02:49
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You could lie about how many mice were born and keep the ones you want... Glad we're back to Pet Island. Always had that little bit of paranoia about someone looking over my shoulder and being like PENIS LAND WASSAT YOU LOOKING AT PORN?
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Nov 11, 2012 03:54
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Me too. I browse PI on my phone sometimes while waiting for stuff at work so it shows up in my history that pops up whenever I go to type in a URL. I was always worried someone would borrow my phone to look something up and be all weirded out by my internet history. Here's a picture of Max and Pistol being friends  They figured out they can both lay next to me if they lay perpendicular to me. One sitting on either side never occurred to them, but whatever works I guess.
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Nov 11, 2012 03:59
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:Balen must be broken. He starts prancing and dancing when I tell him we're going to the vet, practically drags me through the door at the vet and thinks it's the best thing ever. Stands perfectly still for shots, blood draws, doesn't yank his limbs away. He's better behaved for them sometimes than he is for me. Yeah, Sitka loves our vet and gets ridiculous about him. It helps that he has a big old malamute of his own so he totally adores her and knows all the tricks for conning a malamute into doing something it doesn't want to do. The only pet that I had that was a hell demon was my husband's 22lb orange tabby who hated everything on the planet except him and maybe me. Vets would turn him into this screaming ball of claws and rage. They would sedate him because otherwise he'd claw everyone's faces off. But funnily enough, Sammy's heart rate never spiked. He wasn't scared; he was just very, very angry. Then I found a vet that made home visits and that was a little better. Sammy would just growl the whole time and chew my leather jacket. Rixatrix posted:All the people I know who own a breed that needs to be trimmed either do it themselves or let a more skilled friend (or the breeder) do it for them if they need it for show. Based on my experiences, I just assumed that the people who regularly use groomers are the ones who are not willing/able/skilled enough to do it themselves and thus aren't necessarily the most comfortable handling a dog in that situation. Sitka goes to the groomer because the ancient plumbing in my house cannot handle all her fur and I don't have the mega hair drier/blower thing to actually get her dry. Some of us aren't willing to cough up the 500-1000 in equipment it would take to groom our dogs ourselves. Citizen Rat fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Nov 11, 2012 |
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Nov 11, 2012 04:19
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So my friend got me this awesome shirt for my birthday.
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Nov 11, 2012 04:54
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I hate my pet allergies so much! Our friends had a little mini-Thanksgiving at their house tonight, and their chow mix pulled the turkey carcass off the counter. I grabbed him to stop him from eating it and had to kind of put my arms around him (he's really strong), and within a few minutes my arms were breaking out in bumps and I was itching all over. Ugh. So now it's Benadryl time for me  What a pain in the rear end.
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Nov 11, 2012 05:05
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The Big Whoop posted:You could lie about how many mice were born and keep the ones you want... DU THIS. I'm actually going through the same thing right now. I started with a couple of hideous sooty brindle culls from a local breeder, and I knew they carried some awesome stuff so after some inbreeding I have ended up with a blue even marked satin, a dilute fawn broken marked brindle, 2 chocolates, and a reasonably marked fawn brindle satin. ALL MALES. ALL. And then in another litter, a fawn self satin, blue self satin, under marked fawn brindle satin, and a decently marked fawn brindle. All (poor) long hairs, ALL MALE except for the fawn brindle. Luckily I have a few awesome females from a couple of other litters, but lol, it seems like 90% of the pretty mice I get are males. I breed them like once and then have to cull them when I REALLY DON'T WANT TO because male mice are dicks and have to all be housed individually. I've got all these pretty bucks and meanwhile I'm buying PEW does from Petco to breed them to because there are almost never any girls. quote:Glad we're back to Pet Island. Always had that little bit of paranoia about someone looking over my shoulder and being like PENIS LAND WASSAT YOU LOOKING AT PORN? I know, right. Pretty sure my boss has noticed "Penis Land" on my work computer by now. Was getting kind of old.
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Nov 11, 2012 05:23
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RazorBunny posted:I hate my pet allergies so much! At least you'll sleep soundly tonight. That's always a bonus!
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Nov 11, 2012 05:59
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As per usual around here, I too usually restrain my dogs at the vets. We've been quite lucky, so outside the regular eye exams etc. we've only had to deal with one paw wound at the vets. A couple of times I've even had an ultrasound done to see whether my girls are pregnant and even how many puppies we might be expecting. I'm unfortunately an old hand at dealing with bite wounds all by myself. And anal glands, which are only an occasional problem for Healy. The latest was a pretty nasty nose wound. Naru was less than eager to be treated, when it meant I was rinsing her nose with physiological saline and after that sprayed some antiseptic on her nose. I was still able to restrain her and clean the wound at the same time. Had we been somewhere other than in the middle of nowhere and preferably on any other day than Saturday I might've taken her to a vet for that one, but since the circumstances were what they were, I called one of my friends and asked her to call a prescription for antibiotics to the closest pharmacy. That was one slow wound to heal as there was no way to stop Naru from licking it, but it did heal very well in a week plus. Once my dogs got a pretty unpleasant surprise, when I took them to my next door neighbors patio and instead of rubs and pets she drew some blood from them for rabies antibody titer tests. Captain Foxy posted:I can't do that on my own, and it would be incredibly impractical and arrogant of me to assume I would know how to do it properly without having been taught. I only actively know of one person, my godparent actually, who would take her poodle to be professionally groomed, because she wasn't eager to learn to do that by herself. Another friend of mine owns a standard poodle (her first dog) and does most of the work by herself, they only visit the breeder for show trims.
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Nov 11, 2012 07:18
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Superconsndar posted:DU THIS. How can you post this without pics? I know, I know, mice are hard to photograph. Still no excuse! I want to get back into breeding, gotta see what my roomies say. Gonna BYB some mice so hard you guys. So hard. Riiseli Whenever I went to the vet, the techs would complement me on my restraining skillz. And this was before I started working with animals! Also, I taught myself how to handstrip. Read some stuff online and then went at it with a friend's dog 
The Big Whoop fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Nov 11, 2012 |
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Nov 11, 2012 07:47
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If I'm not allowed to restrain my cats, I find another vet. They are very well behaved with me, but the 18 pounder is likely to get bitey with a stranger as well as "fear-poo". I've had her 16 years now and if I can't read her by now no one will be able to. Also, anything other than surgery and sometimes blood draws is done with me in the room. There is no need to terrify my cats just to do some simple procedures. I used to have to argue with vets to allow me to hold my pets, but after the "fear-pooing" that vet figured out it was easier to have me help. My second vet was happy to have my help since that meant none of their staff got eaten that day. I think a smart vet will let the owner help for something minor to see how it goes and if it's fine, will let them restrain for everything but major stuff. That's what I've found recently, any way.
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Nov 11, 2012 07:50
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Topoisomerase posted:People get really butthurt at being directly told to be quiet a lot of times. Citizen Rat posted:Sitka goes to the groomer because the ancient plumbing in my house cannot handle all her fur and I don't have the mega hair drier/blower thing to actually get her dry. Some of us aren't willing to cough up the 500-1000 in equipment it would take to groom our dogs ourselves. And, like I said previously, I can completely understand if someone doesn't want to do their dog themselves for whatever reason. If I owned a poodle or something, I'd just take it to be professionally done because effort. Incidentally I DON'T own a poodle or something because I know I don't want to deal with the coat. I was pointing out previously that I find it odd that over here where it's completely normal for owners to be present and helping with the dog at the vet are discouraged from doing so at the groomer. I was offering a potential explanation that based on my experience most people I know with breeds that need a lot of work with their coat groom their own dogs or ask friends or the dog's breeder to help or borrow their equipment. The people I know tend to be dog nerds and since in my experience the dog nerds more rarely visit the groomer, I assumed that the non-dog-nerd pet owners end up over-represented in the people that use a groomer's services. Inadequate dog handling skills are likely to be more common with regular pet owners than horrible dog nerds regardless of the coat type of their dogs. We've seen several vets over the years and several doggie physical therapists. The groomer was the first professional to tell me I should leave so my dog would behave better and I found this odd. I never knew this was a more general thing so it made me wonder. Edit RazorBunny posted:One of the vets at the office where I take our animals likes to ask a question right before he starts listening to the stethoscope, so I feel like an idiot if I answer, and an idiot if I don't answer. Rixatrix fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Nov 11, 2012 |
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Nov 11, 2012 09:41
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Rixatrix posted:Like Riiseli said, over here breeders teach the puppy buyers how to groom their dogs. A good friend of mine has a standard poodle and when she was getting her puppy, she was told she cannot take the puppy home until she's bought all the equipment and has shown she wants to learn how to do the trim. She doesn't show her dog anymore, but when she did she took the poodle to the breeder for a more finished look. This generally only goes for the breeds that require extensive work to stay healthy and happy though. With the Lapponians I think I was just told to wash and brush when needed. Nope, my breed taught me how to groom her and even if I did cough up the 500 for the mega hair drier necessary I would still have to re-do all of the 80 year old piping in my house to be able to handle her fur. Which, well, that goes into the several grand territory which I don't have on hand. Though when I said 'go to the groomer' I meant down to her breeder as I don't trust 90% of groomers not to try to do something stupid because a lot of them have never handled a double coated dog.
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Nov 11, 2012 14:49
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Superconsndar posted:DU THIS. I've glanced a few times at petstores locally and all they ever have is males too. Send me all your brindles, I'll convince them to let me play with them too. Unfortunately, the store's already seen the pups and done a head count when they were pink and terrible so I don't know how well lying would work. They won't be here for hours yet anyway but I have a few arguments I can use. How many tanks do you even have anyway at this point for mice?
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Nov 11, 2012 14:54
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So Bailey went to the vet yesterday and either has seasonal allergies (since he started getting itchy in October) or a combination of that and food allergies. He's on prednisone (with progressively lower doses over a week) and the hope is that that will reduce his itchiness enough. The vet told me its worrying that he was fine last year and not this year because he might become progressively more allergic to more things. I'm really nervous about this. I'd like to not have to change foods and everything but if I have to I will.
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Nov 11, 2012 14:54
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wtftastic posted:So Bailey went to the vet yesterday and either has seasonal allergies (since he started getting itchy in October) or a combination of that and food allergies. He's on prednisone (with progressively lower doses over a week) and the hope is that that will reduce his itchiness enough. The vet told me its worrying that he was fine last year and not this year because he might become progressively more allergic to more things. I'm really nervous about this. I'd like to not have to change foods and everything but if I have to I will. Also sup dudes, smug bird landing in this strangely birdless thread 
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Nov 11, 2012 15:26
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:I've glanced a few times at petstores locally and all they ever have is males too. Send me all your brindles, I'll convince them to let me play with them too. I have one ten gallon that has hoppers and some adult females in it, but my males are all in shoebox size rubber made bins, moms with litters are in 17 quart rubber made bins. I am a horrible byb and crowd things. I also have a massive turnover and cull everything after like one litter because I don't have the space to house anything I don't absolutely need. I have....9 adults right now and a couple dozen babies of varying ages.
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Nov 11, 2012 15:27
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