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Two Finger posted:It's just LNG carriers that use the boiloff gas as fuel. They generally have massive steam plant powering steam turbines, but newer diesel technology can now use it as well. I was looking into these kinda ships. http://www.lngworldnews.com/norway-worlds-first-lng-powered-cargo-ship-launched/ Also, if you start working on a turbine ship, do you pretty much stick to that? I'd like to work on an LNG carrier (steam turbine) but I'm worried that I'll limit my knowledge to steam turbine. Is that usually the case with engineers? Either Diesel or Steam?
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Nov 8, 2012 02:32
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I'm only getting a motor ticket because I've never worked on steam propulsion. You would be loving insane to get a steam only ticket - there are not many of them around, but you can get a combined motor/steam ticket. It is extremely uncommon outside of the LNG industry, and a few 'historical' ships. Just read that link.  What in the fuuuuuuck.... Sure, you reduce emissions but jesus, the amount of extra expense needed to handle LNG? I don't understand, it seems like a bit of a gimmick to me. Also, I don't think it's that common for ports to be able to supply LNG, goddamn, my head is spinning. I don't think that will become the norm anytime soon, is what I'm saying. Comrade Blyatlov fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Nov 8, 2012 |
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Nov 8, 2012 02:34
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Two Finger posted:I'm only getting a motor ticket because I've never worked on steam propulsion. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwce4uTM_EHiWGpMRXlNOGVUT1E/edit That presentation is a pretty good introduction as to what exists out there. The economics on slide 26 look pretty good. But I'm not sure how much I would trust it. even if it is accurate there's always the cost of creating the infrastructure for refueling. It's interesting how only Europe has ships and they have very high natural gas prices, but in NA gas is so cheap it's pretty much free but we have no ships. NA already has infrastructure for LNG tankers, so I imagine creating infrastructure for refueling wouldn't be too much of a giant leap. It's interesting to where this could go. Of course, I have no idea I just started looking into maritime technology. But working in oil&gas has taught me is that there's poo poo all for oil left in the world, while natural gas is literally all over the world and tons of it to boot. This page has a bunch of presentations on LNG power: http://www.imar.ca/en/events/lng-fuel-for-ships/ Cool, maybe Canada will build the first LNG ships https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwce4uTM_EHiUFM4OVBDTm5PYms/edit 
Kindest Forums User fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Nov 8, 2012 |
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Nov 8, 2012 03:18
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You can go to Norway and hop on one. US flagged ships are generally pretty old. LNG technology might eventually come out but there is a large glut in cargo capacity at the moment so noone is looking to build new ships anytime soon. Once they decide to build a new ship there is a bit of lead time to get it designed and built. With the new emissions rules coming in to effect I think this is more likely to happen now. That Norwegian vessel was probably built through a combination of emissions and tax breaks. In the US most schools will give you a 3rd Engineer (Gas, Steam Turbine and Diesel) Unlimited Horsepower which means you can sail any propulsion plant of any horsepower. Gas turbine is about as easy as it gets, steam and diesel plants are where its at. There arent many gas turbines in the commercial fleet anyways.
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Nov 8, 2012 03:54
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lightpole posted:You can go to Norway and hop on one. US flagged ships are generally pretty old. LNG technology might eventually come out but there is a large glut in cargo capacity at the moment so noone is looking to build new ships anytime soon. Once they decide to build a new ship there is a bit of lead time to get it designed and built. With the new emissions rules coming in to effect I think this is more likely to happen now. That Norwegian vessel was probably built through a combination of emissions and tax breaks. They give you a combined ticket straight off the mark? Wow, that's different.
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Nov 8, 2012 04:02
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http://www.glmri.org/downloads/2012Reports/affiliatesMtg/parsons.pdf Here's a fun powerpoint on LNG conversions of existing ships on the Lakes. I think they want to convert the Badger too. A state of the art LNG carferry (using the LNG to power steam recips)
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Nov 8, 2012 04:39
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LNG bunkers are totally happening. It's a matter of setting up the logistics and, as lightpole said, replacing / repowering the fleet. New legislation coming into force, basically MARPOL VI, makes LNG very attractive as a fuel for emission controls. Especially in the North American Emission Control Area. Read up on it, my dear grease monkeys, 'cause it's coming. Basically two strokes engines, running on LNG, with a touch of diesel as primer. AFAIK, Canadian engineers get combined tickets right out of school, I don't know how it works for upgrading and renewing. Nobody gives a gently caress about steam, there are maybe three steamships left in Canada. Well I guess Hydro likes steam... never happy posted:It looks like in the third coop term you will be acting as a third. Which seems like a good way to set yourself up for 2nd nice and quickly. Important detail if you don't want to get laughed at: Outside the states, engineers go Chief, Second, Third, Fourth. You will not get a 2nd's job straight out of school. Most if not all the schools have a similar scheme, where you finish on the cusp of getting your 3rd class... And if you aren't a fuckhead, you should be acting as a 4th / OOW by the end of your training anyway, while the guy who actually gets paid sits back and watches you. By all mean, take half a day and call up Memorial and Georgian Bay, compare where they place their cadets and so on. There's a huge variety in this industry, even if the end product is still "Burn fuel, move boat."
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Nov 8, 2012 05:26
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US doesnt really do 4th engineer. Graduate with a 3rds. CMA has a steam simulator and there are still some US flagged steam ships available for sea time. Two stroke LNG would be interesting. The US two strokes are having a lot of problems right now using low sulfur since they werent designed to run for such an extended period of time like that. I worked on some 4 stroke natural gas powered generators in a shore side power plant. They used spark ignition for the PCC and I would expect to see more of that instead of diesel but who knows? We had to change out spark plugs when they started going bad around 200-300 hours. The other problem is gas burns a lot hotter than diesel. Modern steam turbines are much more efficient nowadays so I would expect to see more of that instead of two stroke but we will see. I know they have been looking at conversions but I have no idea when or even if anyone is going to move on this. I know the new standards are costing companies over $1kk in fuel a trip. APL and Matson sail to LA or Oakland and then sail up or down the coast to the other port and dont leave the 200MEEZ. lightpole fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Nov 8, 2012 |
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Nov 8, 2012 07:25
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The stuff I've seen was two stroke with diesel injection; I think the argument was that they could run on diesel only. I'll try to find some sources.
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Nov 8, 2012 12:18
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lightpole posted:Modern steam turbines are much more efficient nowadays so I would expect to see more of that instead of two stroke but we will see. I know they have been looking at conversions but I have no idea when or even if anyone is going to move on this. I know the new standards are costing companies over $1kk in fuel a trip. APL and Matson sail to LA or Oakland and then sail up or down the coast to the other port and dont leave the 200MEEZ. I got my winter ship assignment, looks like I'll be doing that LA<->Oakland thing on a Matson boat, then headed to Hawaii, rinse and repeat.
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Nov 8, 2012 15:38
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shovelbum posted:Rinse and repeat. Welcome to the merchant marine!
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Nov 8, 2012 15:43
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Move boxes get
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Nov 8, 2012 15:48
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shovelbum posted:
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Nov 8, 2012 15:57
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You get paid minimum wage and get to spend time in Oak/LA/Hono its not bad. Those ships are some of the best jobs in the union. You spend less than 5 days at sea in a stretch. Plus the temperature doesnt get any better.
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Nov 8, 2012 18:53
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lightpole posted:You get paid minimum wage and get to spend time in Oak/LA/Hono its not bad. Those ships are some of the best jobs in the union. You spend less than 5 days at sea in a stretch. Plus the temperature doesnt get any better. Yeah, I've definitely heard that about them from a union perspective. I'm excited to see a boat I won't see again until I've been in the union for 45 years, haha.
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Nov 8, 2012 19:16
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lightpole posted:Modern steam turbines are much more efficient nowadays so I would expect to see more of that instead of two stroke but we will see. I know they have been looking at conversions but I have no idea when or even if anyone is going to move on this. I know the new standards are costing companies over $1kk in fuel a trip. APL and Matson sail to LA or Oakland and then sail up or down the coast to the other port and dont leave the 200MEEZ. Even super modern 3 stage ( HP, IP, LP) 100 bar systems with reheaters are not as efficient as a dirty old slow speed two stroke. The only way they work is with bonus fuel like boil off gas in gas buggies. Heavy fuel is STILL too cheap to be going anywhere soon.
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Nov 10, 2012 14:36
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pazrs posted:Heavy fuel is STILL too cheap to be going anywhere soon. ECA sulfur content requirement basically prevent the use of regular old HFO; it's low-sulfur or MDO... And low sulfur isn't always available.
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Nov 10, 2012 16:06
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Glasgow nautical. As bad as I hear? What's the worst college to end up at in the UK? I've heard some grim tales about warsah too, particularly the accommodation block.
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Nov 10, 2012 19:05
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pazrs posted:Even super modern 3 stage ( HP, IP, LP) 100 bar systems with reheaters are not as efficient as a dirty old slow speed two stroke. The only way they work is with bonus fuel like boil off gas in gas buggies. Heavy fuel is STILL too cheap to be going anywhere soon. Like frozenvent said, this isn't the argument. New emission standards and the use of low sulfur are increasing costs and wear on the engine. These new standards are already in place in the US. Since there are companies like Horizon and the tankers who barely even leave the EEZ I wouldn't be surprised if regulation drives low emissions development on ships.
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Nov 10, 2012 19:15
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It already is driving innovation; a few Canadian vessels have been equipped with exhaust scrubbers (They're loving gigantic, it's like a second funnel) and new build ferries are being equipped with LNG. There isn't a week that goes by that I don't hear about a concept for an LNG bunker barge. Heck, the Canadian government put out an RFP for Coast Guard vessels operating on hydrogen fuel cells (  ).Bawjaws posted:Glasgow nautical. As bad as I hear? I don't know about the UK, but generally nautical school is gonna blow no matter where. Find out where they place their cadets and graduate, and compare the amount of exams you have to take after graduating. At the end of the day, a license is a license.
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Nov 10, 2012 19:23
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FrozenVent posted:ECA sulfur content requirement basically prevent the use of regular old HFO; it's low-sulfur or MDO... And low sulfur isn't always available. It is worth noting that low sulphur plays all kinds of hell with older engines. I completely understand why they are doing these emissions standards, just from my perspective it causes all sorts of added bullshit.
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Nov 10, 2012 19:44
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Bawjaws posted:Glasgow nautical. As bad as I hear? I'm most of the way through a deck cadetship at Glasgow. The college is disorganised but it gets the job done. I am pretty satisfied with my Glasgow time. In my experience the real learning happens at sea anyway so a good company/crew is way more valuable than a good college. As for accommodation if you go to Glasgow please choose self-catered/en suite accommodation as the fully-catered accommodation is known as 'Alcatraz' for good reason. As for Warsash, all I know about it is it quite posh and has a phantom shitter who leaves surprises in the accommodation's shared showers and laundry machines. I don't know if there are any exceptionally good colleges in the UK as I speculate they have all suffered in quality in recent years due to poor lecturer wages so most of the good talent retires/quits.
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Nov 10, 2012 21:34
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magpie posted:I'm most of the way through a deck cadetship at Glasgow. The college is disorganised but it gets the job done. In my experience, that's true of all the colleges in the world. magpie posted:I don't know if there are any exceptionally good colleges in the UK as I speculate they have all suffered in quality in recent years due to poor lecturer wages so most of the good talent retires/quits. This also. A navigation teacher with a Master Mariner makes something like $75K in Rimouski, it's ridiculous.
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Nov 10, 2012 21:50
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Bawjaws posted:Glasgow nautical. As bad as I hear? Warsash is quite nice really, the accommodation isn't too bad although they do charge far too loving much for it. Rent a 5 bedroom house nearby now with other cadets and its way cheaper. I am actually from glasgow and I have never had a high opinion of the nautical college and neither does anyone I know who has done anything there. I know for a fact that Maersk refuses to send cadets there anymore. The phantom shitter story at warsash is true by the way, knew who it was as well, total oval office. Warsash is nice in that every person there is doing maritime stuff as opposed to hairdressing. Its not strict either, the days of manditory morning jogs are long passed. Wear your uniform, don't poo poo in the tumble drier. A lot of the teaching stuff are old merchant/royal navy guys so they know their stuff. Whether you think it deserves it or not warsash is still considered the best in the uk for the training. Southampton city itself is a dump though, they only time you will ever make that journey is to visit the worst/best club in the uk, jesters. Glasgow would be way better if you want an awesome city. Mr Teatime fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Nov 10, 2012 |
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Nov 10, 2012 23:32
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Two Finger posted:It is worth noting that low sulphur plays all kinds of hell with older engines. I completely understand why they are doing these emissions standards, just from my perspective it causes all sorts of added bullshit. You run into lubricity problems which means you have a choice of upping your cylinder oil and risk gumming up your liners or spot welding on and microseizures. You also need to slow down as the engine wasn't designed to run at sea speed on low sulfur. Then you have the changeover at 200NM. Depending on the ship the switchover can cause big problems or take a long time. Matson is having trouble with fuel temps and mixing last i heard but i dont remember the full story. The last problem is all the ships built with tiny diesel tanks and huge heavy storage tanks. The shuttle tankers like OSG has can't carry enough diesel. We are kind of betting they just switch to MDO all the time and don't bother burning diesel. In the US I havent seen much come out yet on what the shipping companies are going to do. Most of them are just trying to hang on for the moment.
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Nov 11, 2012 03:10
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not to derail the entire LNG_chat.txt but I'm currently on a norwegian flagged LNG powered ship. The main reason for having LNG on this ship is that there is a tax break for lowering NOX emissions. It got dual fuel engines so we have to carefully take note of when we are running on LNG and we are running on diesel only. The engines consume very little lube oil when running on LNG(have only refilled on engine with 50 liters in 4 weeks I've been here) and the machinery spaces are much cleaner than on a regular diesel ship?
Trench_Rat fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Nov 11, 2012 |
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Nov 11, 2012 13:48
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Trench_Rat posted:The main reason for having LNG on this ship is that there is a tax break for lowering NOX emissions. That's one mean administrations can use to control emissions. Is it on a per ship basis, per fleet or market based measure? The main drive for LNG around North America is the ECA, and that's mostly a sulfur thing IIRC (Environmental stuff isn't my bread and butter these days.) Could the improved lube consumption and cleanliness be due in part to the age of the engine? And please post pictures of that ER, dude! 
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Nov 11, 2012 14:11
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I can take some pictures with the EX camera no flash on that camera so the pictures might look weird edit: I accidentally invented instagram 
Trench_Rat fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Nov 11, 2012 |
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Nov 11, 2012 14:24
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If you take them when the M/E's off, no-flash pictures of the ER can turn out pretty well if you stabillize yourself on a railing. The flash doesn't usually reach far enough, in my experience. I had a gorillapod when I used to take pictures on boats; I'd just wrap it around a railing or what have you and go for it. Got some great night time pictures. FrozenVent fucked around with this message at 07:00 on May 13, 2013 |
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Nov 11, 2012 14:37
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You guys may enjoy this. I'm in the Canary Islands for two weeks doing some retrofit work on a rig before it heads over to Canada, today this happened: Apparently some how the current took it (I know nothing of boats so apologies in advance) and they were dragged in towards the jetty there. Word is they grazed some small Maersk tanker on the way in, when we got on deck they were kicking up a ton of water in reverse then cut it hard, in the end I'd say they missed that sea wall there by maybe 50 meters. I'd say a few on board may be in need of a pants change.
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Nov 12, 2012 20:57
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Niven posted:Apparently some how the current took it (I know nothing of boats so apologies in advance) and they were dragged in towards the jetty there. Word is they grazed some small Maersk tanker on the way in, when we got on deck they were kicking up a ton of water in reverse then cut it hard, in the end I'd say they missed that sea wall there by maybe 50 meters. I'd say a few on board may be in need of a pants change. If they clipped a boat, then it's definetly crap-in-pants worthy, but a kick astern and a hard over is kind of meh. Missing something by fifty meters is still missing it. But then I'm a lakes guy, so my definition of "Close" and "Appropriate UKC" are... Not... in line with the rest of the world.
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Nov 13, 2012 00:32
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Orals season! Most of our 2nd Mates have passed, so far all the 3rd engineers have passed. I should be up next week or the week after. God help you all.
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Nov 13, 2012 07:42
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rough weather in the Barents Sea today we moved 16 nautical miles in 15 hours and got nine meter waves  also did I mention the 40 knot winds and the snow storm :killme:
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Nov 13, 2012 21:35
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Two Finger posted:Orals season! I know a guy who's Chief Mate orals lasted for two days. I hear engineers's oral are worst. You know what's the difference between an oral and a written? When you do a written, you can't see the examiner laughing in your face. [sub]My longest oral was 45 minutes and it's mostly shooting the poo poo with the examiner. Don't be a shithead and don't be afraid to use the old "I don't remember, but it's in publication XYZ; I think the answer is ABC, but I'd have to check" cliché.[sub] Trench_Rat posted:rough weather in the Barents Sea today we moved 16 nautical miles in 15 hours and got nine meter waves 
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Nov 14, 2012 00:01
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Trench_Rat posted:rough weather in the Barents Sea today we moved 16 nautical miles in 15 hours and got nine meter waves Jesus Christ. I feel that this would be a perfect time to post the "FUUUUUUCK SHIIIIT DAAAAAMMN" gif with the lasers, but alas I do not have it.
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Nov 14, 2012 01:07
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Grey Skies posted:Jesus Christ. I feel that this would be a perfect time to post the "FUUUUUUCK SHIIIIT DAAAAAMMN" gif with the lasers, but alas I do not have it. Here you go. It sounds appropriate to me, too.
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Nov 14, 2012 01:14
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Excellent! Now replace the lasers with sideways rain and the folk in ties with some poor deckhand stuck out on the bridgewing. Edit: Can any Australian seagoons tell me how/where you find merchant mariner jobs in this country? I'm not 'qualified' so to speak (I'm currently in a similar role as a 'deck officer' in the Navy) but was curious as to what job prospects are like over here. I take it all the pathways to qualification go through AMSA? I've had a read of the information they have on the website but have no idea where to go to look for cadetships and actual jobs after qualification. Grey Skies fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 07:16
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Grey Skies posted:Edit: Can any Australian seagoons tell me how/where you find merchant mariner jobs in this country? I'm not 'qualified' so to speak (I'm currently in a similar role as a 'deck officer' in the Navy) but was curious as to what job prospects are like over here. I take it all the pathways to qualification go through AMSA? I've had a read of the information they have on the website but have no idea where to go to look for cadetships and actual jobs after qualification. Job aspects and pay are good, you are correct in that all accreditation is done through AMSA. They have a Navy bridging program I think? After you have your ticket, you just have to ring companies and ask for jobs. There isn't really a national database or anything like that. Its the same as getting any other job. You see positions advertised on normal job websites like Seek etc.
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Nov 14, 2012 13:37
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Grey Skies posted:Excellent! You're seaman officer branch on a warship? You can go through AMC to get your second mate's ticket (or Diploma in Applied Science, Deck Watchkeeping as they insist on calling it). Requirements from AMSA's point of view are found here. As for jobs, apply directly to prospective employers, we don't do the USA apply via your union thing over here. The offshore is settling down a bit at the moment, but apply with the offshore operators and the few bluewater employers anyway.
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Nov 14, 2012 13:48
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Overseas Shipholding Group (OSG) Files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection http://gcaptain.com/overseas-shipholding-group-osg/ Press Release posted:...Overseas Shipholding as of June 30 had pledged 15 vessels, worth 29 percent of its book value, as collateral for secured loans, according to its website... Huh, 15 just so happens to be the number of US Flag tankers. ...Any other companies hiring ?
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Nov 14, 2012 17:58
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