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Trebuchet King posted:Well, bright red light makes me think glowing time glyph, but we'll see. and he IS the Lord of Time (I still get a chuckle out of that)
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Nov 15, 2012 18:35
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Homestuck just got all Descartes as gently caress for me. Who is Caliborn's evil deciever? 
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Nov 15, 2012 19:29
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The evil behind Caliborn's ascension to Lord English is Lord English. The biggest time loop of them all.
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Nov 15, 2012 19:33
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The only way I could see Caliborn not being Lord English is if Lord English was instead Caliborn's ancestor. Or Caliborn was Lord English's ancestor or something. They might even have the same name, considering he doesn't have a last name. The Beat Mesa type thing that lets you scratch your session is on the time player's planet, right? Though it feels kind of pointless to just show Lord English as another kid in a scratched session after building up Caliborn like this. Fortis posted:The evil behind Caliborn's ascension to Lord English is Lord English. The biggest time loop of them all.
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Nov 15, 2012 19:48
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Why not Scratch? Deceiving children is kinda his thing.
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Nov 15, 2012 19:55
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It was only on the re-read that I realized that Hussie stopped narrating because Caliborn is staring right at the camera. Reminds me a bit of the old DCU cartoons like Batman or the Justice League where the Joker was the only person cracked enough to break the 4th wall and say lines directly to the audience.
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Nov 15, 2012 20:34
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It would be a huge, hilarious upset if Gamzee turned out to be Lord English. With the whole gigantic bait-and-switch foreshadowed in the chess game that we've apparently got coming, almost anything could conceivably happen and Caliborn's identity has been just unstated enough that there's room to wiggle. I think it's him though. But then, we'd be supposed to!
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Nov 15, 2012 20:40
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If this really is a sort of half-finished protosession, this thing in the distance might be the template for the god-tier dias we've seen elsewhere. So... Caliborn climbs an old cell phone tower and gets struck by lightning or something?
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Nov 15, 2012 21:00
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Android Blues posted:It would be a huge, hilarious upset if Gamzee turned out to be Lord English. With the whole gigantic bait-and-switch foreshadowed in the chess game that we've apparently got coming, almost anything could conceivably happen and Caliborn's identity has been just unstated enough that there's room to wiggle. I'm still placing my money on the bait-and-switch foreshadowing Caliborn impersonating his sister to the B2 kids in order to get them to help him do something nasty. - The kids thinking they're helping their friend but actually hurting themselves is just the sort of lovely twist he'd love. - He claimed that after Calliope died, he'd paint his words with her blood color (green). Calliope claimed to Roxy that if she "won", she'd change her text color to green. Caliborn messaging the kids with the UU screenname and green text would fulfill one prophecy while seeming to fulfill the other. - He further claimed that after Calliope died, "all [her] friends would be happy", which would make sense if they think she won. - Calliope comments in her conversation with the kids that Caliborn had taken some mild interest in her hobbies, fanfic and drawing lately. Which is appropriate if he's getting ready to impersonate her. He could conceivably keep the ruse up for a long while. He's got a book of her art to scan if he needs to upload "new" drawings, and any knowledge he's missing he can pass off as having conversations out of order, chronologically.
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Nov 15, 2012 21:10
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Bobulus posted:He could conceivably keep the ruse up for a long while. He's got a book of her art to scan if he needs to upload "new" drawings, and any knowledge he's missing he can pass off as having conversations out of order, chronologically. If this happens (Caliborn pretends to be Calliope), I'd actually expect this to be what causes his ruse to fail or at least starts suspicions that it might not really be Calliope talking. At one point she mentioned that her viewport was locked chronologically with the kid's timeline (screwy as it is with Dirk and Roxy in the future), so that as time passed for her it also passed for them at the same rate, and that they weren't allowed to jump around time-wise. Caliborn, however, doesn't care about that as we saw when he harassed present and past Dirk to get his smut. Not sure if there was any implication that Calliope would stick with the timeline-synchronicity if she won, but I could see that sort of change planting a seed of doubt in the kids.
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Nov 15, 2012 21:21
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Fortis posted:The evil behind Caliborn's ascension to Lord English is Lord English. The biggest time loop of them all. This is already a thing, sort of -- Scratch manipulated the kids into creating the Green Sun under Lord English's orders. Retroactively causing his own creation is all part of being Already Here. Has "--All You Zombies--" been brought up in the thread before? There are several parallels (okay, one, but it's a big one) to draw to Lord English, and I think it would probably appeal to Homestuck readers in general.
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Nov 15, 2012 21:30
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loquacius posted:Has "--All You Zombies--" been brought up in the thread before? There are several parallels (okay, one, but it's a big one) to draw to Lord English, and I think it would probably appeal to Homestuck readers in general. "--All You Zombies--" has definitely come up before, but it bears repeating. It's the second of two stories (the first is "By His Bootstraps") by Heinlein that played with the idea of self-fulfilling time loops (ontological paradoxes, whatever you want to call them), which are fundamental to the story of Homestuck. Before "By His Boostraps," no one had ever conceived of such a thing, but "--All You Zombies--" takes the idea further and really lays the foundation for time travel stories like Homestuck.
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Nov 15, 2012 21:40
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It's been a while since I read it... isn't that the one where... through excessive time travel, appearance-changing future tech, and some really wacky genetic fuckery, one person raises himself by being every major figure in his own formative years, including both his mother and father?
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Nov 15, 2012 21:43
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Bobulus posted:It's been a while since I read it... isn't that the one where... through excessive time travel, appearance-changing future tech, and some really wacky genetic fuckery, one person raises himself by being every major figure in his own formative years, including both his mother and father? Yes. Not just his formative years; he's literally every character in the story.
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Nov 15, 2012 21:44
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:If this really is a sort of half-finished protosession, this thing in the distance might be the template for the god-tier dias we've seen elsewhere. So... Caliborn climbs an old cell phone tower and gets struck by lightning or something? When I saw the blinky red light, the first thing I thought of was Dear Esther. Now I just want there to be a reference to that even more.
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Nov 15, 2012 21:54
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:If this really is a sort of half-finished protosession, this thing in the distance might be the template for the god-tier dias we've seen elsewhere. So... Caliborn climbs an old cell phone tower and gets struck by lightning or something? In order for this kid to travel through time, we'll need 1.21 jigawatts of power! 1.21 jigawatts!?
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Nov 15, 2012 22:15
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Wasn't the red sun taken into the session as well? That's my first thought since it seems to parallel when the trolls saw the green sun. Although I don't know why it would be blinking.
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Nov 15, 2012 22:17
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quote:Everybody out of the god drat way. You got a hat full of bomb, a fist full of penis, and a head full of empty. Just got to this point in my re-read. It's one of my most favorite moments in the whole drat story. Who doesn't love the Midnight Crew? 
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Nov 15, 2012 22:31
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voting third party posted:Wasn't the red sun taken into the session as well? That's my first thought since it seems to parallel when the trolls saw the green sun. Although I don't know why it would be blinking.
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Nov 15, 2012 22:52
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Bobulus posted:I'm still placing my money on the bait-and-switch foreshadowing Caliborn impersonating his sister to the B2 kids in order to get them to help him do something nasty. All this and you didn't mention the massively foreboding chess game where Caliborn finally beats Calliope by swapping his queen and king? You just know that's gotta be foreshadowing something, Caliborn fooling the kids would be a good match. Then again, we're terribly aware that Calliope is dead right now, so Calliope 'returning' to help the kids while actually leading them astray wouldn't have much tension considering we'd already know it's just Caliborn.
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Nov 16, 2012 00:15
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Bobulus posted:It was only on the re-read that I realized that Hussie stopped narrating because Caliborn is staring right at the camera. Before I read the narration Caliborn's pissed-off stare got a laugh out of me. Now it just creeps me the gently caress out.
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Nov 16, 2012 00:27
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Dolash posted:Then again, we're terribly aware that Calliope is dead right now, so Calliope 'returning' to help the kids while actually leading them astray wouldn't have much tension considering we'd already know it's just Caliborn. Tension, no, but it'll be dripping with dramatic irony.
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Nov 16, 2012 00:29
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Dolash posted:All this and you didn't mention the massively foreboding chess game where Caliborn finally beats Calliope by swapping his queen and king? You just know that's gotta be foreshadowing something, Caliborn fooling the kids would be a good match. Recall that the White Queen cold-clocked Jack Noir with the White King's scepter. This also ties into the whole king/queen swap motif!
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Nov 16, 2012 00:42
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Everyone stop what you're doing and read All You Zombies right now.
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Nov 16, 2012 00:47
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Omnomnomnivore posted:Could just be an exile sending commands to Caliborn somewhere. Fighting against the narrative is more interesting, though. which would explain why he had that ring
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Nov 16, 2012 00:58
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Okay I have to ask, is this Homestuck related or just something you want to share? Not that a tale of unmarried mothers and sex-changed orphans isn't something to read about, just would be nice to know what I'm looking for.
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Nov 16, 2012 00:59
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So the ring John has... is Caliborn's white queen's ring 
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Nov 16, 2012 01:00
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Dolash posted:Okay I have to ask, is this Homestuck related or just something you want to share? Not that a tale of unmarried mothers and sex-changed orphans isn't something to read about, just would be nice to know what I'm looking for. It's Robert Heinlein's story that he wrote about Homestuck.
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Nov 16, 2012 01:05
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Dolash posted:Okay I have to ask, is this Homestuck related or just something you want to share? Not that a tale of unmarried mothers and sex-changed orphans isn't something to read about, just would be nice to know what I'm looking for. Just keep reading.
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Nov 16, 2012 01:10
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Heinlein posted:I couldn't compete. So I decided to join the W. E. N. C. H. E. S. -- If my eyes were literal billiard balls they couldn't roll smoothly and rapidly enough. I can see why you linked it, and it was worth reading, but that guy just couldn't stop heinleining, could he.
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Nov 16, 2012 01:36
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To be fair, I don't think Caliborn could stop heinleining either.
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Nov 16, 2012 01:41
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Also to be fair it was written in the 50s. Heinlein was amazingly progressive for his time on a lot of issues, but looking back he sounds like crazy ol' racist grandpa.
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Nov 16, 2012 01:48
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Fister Roboto posted:Also to be fair it was written in the 50s. Heinlein was amazingly progressive for his time on a lot of issues, but looking back he sounds like crazy ol' racist grandpa. Just like my real crazy racist grandpa!
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Nov 16, 2012 02:18
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Abelian Grape posted:Before I read the narration Caliborn's pissed-off stare got a laugh out of me. Now it just creeps me the gently caress out. Even with that knowledge I still find it hilarious. How Hussie managed to make a green skull look confused and mildly annoyed is beyond me.
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Nov 16, 2012 02:22
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Bell_ posted:To be fair, I don't think Caliborn could stop heinleining either. You get the feeling he's trying to say something to you but he's heinleining at such a high velocity you just can't quite make it out. As he finally nails a window and falls you think you hear him exclaim "I'm an author, that's what's so CRAZY about this"
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Nov 16, 2012 02:24
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Fister Roboto posted:Also to be fair it was written in the 50s. Heinlein was amazingly progressive for his time on a lot of issues, but looking back he sounds like crazy ol' racist grandpa. He definitely is a crazy ol' racist grandpa; maybe somewhat less racist than most people born the same year he was (not saying much), but certainly much crazier than average. When I mentioned "--All You Zombies--" and "By His Boostraps," I didn't actually bother to recommend that anyone read them; had I done so, I would have added some sort of Heinlein Disclaimer for those who are not familiar with Heinlein already. I love his stories and books but you've got to be prepared for the crazy.
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Nov 16, 2012 02:25
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DontMockMySmock posted:I love his stories and books but you've got to be prepared for the crazy. You do realize you're saying this in the Homestuck thread, right?
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Nov 16, 2012 02:30
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Can you just say why you posted it instead of being cryptic~
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Nov 16, 2012 02:39
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The reason it was posted was mentioned repeatedly upthread - time travel and paradoxes~~
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Nov 16, 2012 02:41
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He's not being cryptic, he posted it because someone else mentioned it because of time loops, and that recent post was him just calling Hussie crazy.
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Nov 16, 2012 02:42
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