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Zwabu posted:I think Issa had one of the first big car alarm companies. Yea that was it, dude was pretty legit smart in getting in on that early, but yea almost all of his wealth is personally made through investments while Kerry's is almost all through marrying the ketchup princess.
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Nov 19, 2012 01:12
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| # ? May 9, 2024 23:07 |
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 Can anyone help me refute the claims in the image? Obviously some of the posters in that thread are lost causes, but the original guy who posted is reasonable and intelligent. Google searching turns up mountains and mountains of claims from the election and wasn't that helpful, and tineye just returns a bunch of conservative blogs.
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Nov 19, 2012 06:24
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MojoAZ posted:
Even if it is true how are those numbers a bad thing? My husband pulls almost half his income from capital gains but we agreed that it is totally reasonable for him to be taxed at a higher rate. Capital gains, dividends, and inheritances are all things you don't really put blood sweat and tears into getting.
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Nov 19, 2012 06:40
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The Estate Tax (2010) is the most glaring display abuse. It was 45% in 2009 and 35% in 2011, but of course they "randomly" pick the one year where it lapsed. But then again it's an uphill battle to argue in favor of estate tax because people just get emotional - "death tax" etc. I'd focus on the fact whether it's fair that salaries (actual work, i.e. sweat of my brow) are taxed at a maximum of 35% while capital gains are only taxed at 15%.
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Nov 19, 2012 06:56
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MojoAZ posted:
I'm not sure it needs to be "refuted" except to note that the first two items on the list are the tax rates going back to what they were pre-bush tax cuts / payroll tax holiday and the others are simply taxing capital gains and inheritance as income. The only thing there that would effect regular people is the payroll tax but that current rate was temporary anyway. The others pretty much only affect the very wealthy who definitely need to be, and have been, taxed at a higher rate.
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Nov 19, 2012 06:59
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800peepee51doodoo posted:I'm not sure it needs to be "refuted" except to note that the first two items on the list are the tax rates going back to what they were pre-bush tax cuts / payroll tax holiday and the others are simply taxing capital gains and inheritance as income. The only thing there that would effect regular people is the payroll tax but that current rate was temporary anyway. The others pretty much only affect the very wealthy who definitely need to be, and have been, taxed at a higher rate.
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Nov 19, 2012 07:11
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The payroll tax part makes no sense. For starters, any jump in it is because Obama lowered the drat tax for two years. The vast difference between now and Obama's proposal makes no sense though. Obama himself even hasn't proposed lifting FICA. Even if it the cap was fully removed, even if you add in going back to normal levels, it still seems like you'd have to conveniently be adding in the employer's part of the contribution to the total for Obama's proposal while not doing it with the number under current rates for it to even begin to make sense. Or best response: "I give no fucks if FOX news says multi millionaires are going to have to pay more in taxes when we had a budget deficit no amount of cuts will fix. Bring on the taxes"
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Nov 19, 2012 07:22
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Important to note that the income tax bump is specifically for the highest bracket. 250,000+ IIRC? Cry me a river.
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Nov 19, 2012 07:24
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"Income tax: 35% - 39.6%" I don't pay this rate, do you? Hint: it applies to incomes over $380,000.
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Nov 19, 2012 07:26
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MojoAZ posted:
Income tax increase they're mentioning is only for the wealthiest people, and is just the expiration of temporary tax cuts anyway. Payroll tax increase is just the expiration of temporary cuts Obama made? (I don't know anything about this one, this is based off what the people above me said) Capital gains and dividends will overwhelmingly affect rich people who make most of their income that way, heaven forbid the rich people get taxed on their income the way regular working stiffs do. Estate tax being 0% was literally a one-year thing for 2010 which is why they used that figure, it's incredibly disingenuous because in 2009 the rate was 45% on anything over $3.5M and in 2011 it went to 35% on anything over $5M. Boo hoo, cry me a river that you got taxed on free money over $5 million. You might as well  over lottery taxes.
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Nov 19, 2012 07:29
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It's Part N of the continuing series "Misrepresenting Marginal Tax Rates".
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Nov 19, 2012 07:30
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Not to mention the enormous leaps of logic one has to go through to resolve the competing issues of "America is too far in debt and we have to balance the budget" with "You can never raise taxes ever, for any reason, on anyone". It's exceedingly bizarre that the right has managed to marry those two concepts together so effectively. Yes, I know it's starve the beast and all. It still shouldn't work on so many people.
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Nov 19, 2012 07:33
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I realize that this was several pages back, sorry everyone. Feel free to move right on to the next post. XyloJW posted:How on earth can you read that and get upset? It's super sweet and a good idea. The story even includes a super poor family who actually relied on hunting for food and how important it was to their livelihood. People almost always spread ashes over things involving what they loved to do in life. I'm kind of upset that you're being so judgmental of people for enjoying life and mourning differently than you. Dude they are paying $850 to put their family's remains into ammo, killing a hog with it and then eating said hog, which now has got their dad/husband/brother's remains lodged in it. I never denigrated hunting for livelihood or passed judgment upon these people from my ivory tower, but I reserve the right to think that this is a bizarre practice. Chill out.
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Nov 19, 2012 08:29
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Armyman25 posted:During the campaign Obama even stated that he would let the Bush tax cuts lapse. So, why is this shocking news? It's as shocking as the thing my friend posted to FB a day or two ago, where he said "last week" Obama threw gays under the bus. And by "threw gays under the bus", I mean "dredged up an Obama interview from MTV that was done back in October, where he reiterated his previously-stated position that he felt gay marriage was an issue best left up to the states to decide for themselves." Which is to say, it's not in the least bit shocking, unless you're a Republican trying to fool low-information people who trust your word implicitly (when they really should know better).
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Nov 19, 2012 09:03
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vyelkin posted:Not to mention the enormous leaps of logic one has to go through to resolve the competing issues of "America is too far in debt and we have to balance the budget" with "You can never raise taxes ever, for any reason, on anyone". It's exceedingly bizarre that the right has managed to marry those two concepts together so effectively. Because the right's propose solution is always to cut things. See by cutting "Wasteful spending" they are not taking your money and in some cases, even giving it back to you! Taxes just take and give to welfare queens anyway.
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Nov 19, 2012 12:28
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quote:It is wrong to tax a working person almost to the breaking point, then give it to a person who is able to work but refuses to. Tempted to just reply with Matthew 25:41-46 and ignore the shitstorm that will inevitably follow.
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Nov 19, 2012 16:18
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RagnarokAngel posted:Because the right's propose solution is always to cut things. See by cutting "Wasteful spending" they are not taking your money and in some cases, even giving it back to you! Taxes just take and give to welfare queens anyway. It's much more evil than that. "Starving the beast" is wilfully used to cut things like social programs so badly they cannot fulfil their mandate anymore and then (in their world) get cut completly. Do this until there is nothing left but 100% defense spending, move to Galt Gulch, shoot yourself. Half of America is governed by goblins that are trying to dismantle it, no anarchist in the world is as successful.
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Nov 19, 2012 16:30
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"arrogant creep" I want only the humblest men to run for President of the United States.
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Nov 19, 2012 16:44
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My mother sent this along as well. Funny enough, America was replaced with Canada. Chain mail fashion though.
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Nov 19, 2012 16:51
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Thomase posted:My mother sent this along as well. Funny enough, America was replaced with Canada. Chain mail fashion though. Does Canada have a problem of destitute Americans coming over the border in huge numbers looking for work?
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Nov 19, 2012 17:03
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Amused to Death posted:Does Canada have a problem of destitute Americans coming over the border in huge numbers looking for work? You see Mexicans and Muslims sneak into Canada through the US and get all this free stuff. I actually had the same reply as the poster. Iran, Afghanistan and China (china was added) as a model, yadda yadda, no reply. She's from Alberta though, so you expect some crazy conservative to rub off.
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Nov 19, 2012 17:12
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I should point out that there was a spike in deaths at the beginning of January and the end of December 2010, as old people tried to either hang on or give up to avoid the tax hit. There'll probably be a similar spike in the next six weeks. (e: the following is a copy of a post I made a few months ago) Al Franken's book Lies actually has a relatively good chapter about GWB's tax policy that touches on the estate tax debate in the U.S. about ten years ago: basically, the estate tax threshold hadn't rose with inflation in some time, so a small percentage of farm owners would have to pay estate tax upon their death (at below-inflation interest rates for 14 years for any assets over $2.6 million). The Republicans seized upon that and painted anyone who didn't support full repeal of the "death tax" as wanting to hurt working Americans with small businesses and yada yada yada. The kicker? Before Bush took office, only 2% of all estates had to pay the estate tax. And the Democrats offered amendments raising the exemption to $4 million, $8 million, and finally $100 million to call them out on the "small business" argument. All three amendments failed. The chapter ends with this brilliant quote: quote:Any time that a liberal points out that the wealthy are disproportionately benefiting from Bush’s tax policies, Republicans shout, "class warfare!" TinTower fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 17:16
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TinTower posted:... as old people tried to either hang on or give up to avoid the tax hit. Deficit and debt are too high! Whoooooooa! Not my taxes!
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Nov 19, 2012 17:21
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Thomase posted:Deficit and debt are too high! Yeah, that was their reasoning. It's called death elasticity and apparently also happened when Australia abolished its inheritance tax in the 70s 
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Nov 19, 2012 17:24
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vyelkin fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2012 17:32
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"I'm a factory owner, Considering I own all the means of production and also own everything that winds up being produced, why should I pay my workers anything except say providing food to keep them going? Their time isn't worth anything, if it wasn't for us wonderful job creators, they'd be sitting around counting every second that went by in terrible boredom. Or let's just get more direct to see where this can take us in the end. I'm a bike rider, I don't own a car, never have. Why in god's name are you taking my money to help keep up your filthy roads. Continue ad infinitum with every scenario imaginable.
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Nov 19, 2012 17:40
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A facebook friend has been posting nonstop over the last few months about the evils of fiat currency and the coming collapse of the dollar. He just posted a status praising Wordpress for accepting Bitcoin as a form of payment. Is there an easy rebuttal to this? I know Bitcoin is nutty stuff but I can't cohere my thoughts well enough right now.
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Nov 19, 2012 18:06
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Pungent Mammy posted:A facebook friend has been posting nonstop over the last few months about the evils of fiat currency and the coming collapse of the dollar. He just posted a status praising Wordpress for accepting Bitcoin as a form of payment. Ask him what Bitcoin is backed by other than the faith of the market.
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Nov 19, 2012 18:07
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^That. Also, while the US currency has been stable and in fact in such demand has been having occasional negative yield rates, didn't the value of bitcoins earlier in the year go crashing down after a mass sell off that made one of the big people in the bitcoin market actually a decent sum of money after he instigated it?
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Nov 19, 2012 18:34
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MojoAZ posted:
Under what crazy logic does payroll add 12.6%? Beyond the obvious fact that if you're paying the top rate you're well beyond ($200k+ beyond) the cut-off for the 6.2% Social Security tax.
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Nov 19, 2012 19:15
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My Facebook feed has a lot more stupid image macros and rubbish recently due to the Israeli operation in Gaza:   Here's the thing: so far Israel has had blanket support from the US (which is really all that matters), and at most feeble protests from everyone else. I honestly cannot understand what they are complaining about. Are they expecting the US or the EU to bomb Gaza for them? The depth of their persecution complex is ridiculous. Meanwhile Gazans have been under siege for ~7 years and the kill ratio is 10/1 against them in this particular span of violence, last I checked.
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Nov 19, 2012 19:18
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So carpetbomb Staten Island?
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Nov 19, 2012 19:27
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So my debate about health care requirements ballooned over the weekend, including some stream of consciousness reply in the form of one large, ellipsis filled, run on sentence littered paragraph. It was the epitome of tl;dr, and I did just that before replying. I'm in red and the other guy I'm debating is green; toward the end I gave up on being reasonable and started taking digs, which I'm not proud of. The guy in green in my retired co-worker's also retired buddy. Edit: Also, Social Fixer's Anonymizer function is garbage. Is there another Chrome extension out there that does a better job? NatasDog fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 19:28
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XyloJW posted:So carpetbomb Staten Island?
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Nov 19, 2012 19:33
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I tried to counter by noting that if anything Gazans live like people in Far Rockaway do now due to Sandy, only it's been 7 years and there's nothing being done about it in their favor, and then he responded with the usual "oh, they're not doing anything to change things", etc, etc. I despair at these people. Tell them that until last year, refrigerators and concrete were not allowed into Gaza. Ask how you rebuild your life when another nation doesn't allow building supplies into your nation? Or enough food (link to the "Put Gaza on a diet" quote) to feed the entire nation, or snacks for no reason other than to be cruel.
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Nov 19, 2012 19:40
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Rockets from Gaza don't even explode usually. Only 36-37 Israelis have died from rockets from Gaza in the past 11 years. Over 100 Palestinians have died in the pat four days. I like the comparison someone else made, in a two year time period, 120 something Americans died from Mexican drug cartel activity, apparently we need to start raining hell fire down on Mexico. I mean c'mon, Gaza is a literal prison that has been under siege for years. Israel is a first world nation with a highly advanced military and nuclear weapons. This is like a 250lb pro boxer "defending" themselves from a 13 year old soccer player.
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Nov 19, 2012 19:45
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Amused to Death posted:apparently we need to start raining hell fire down on Mexico.
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Nov 19, 2012 20:14
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Amused to Death posted:Or let's just get more direct to see where this can take us in the end. I'm a bike rider, I don't own a car, never have. Why in god's name are you taking my money to help keep up your filthy roads. Continue ad infinitum with every scenario imaginable. My favorite: "I have never called the police ever. I don't see any reason my taxes should support such wasteful spending? If I don't use it, I shouldn't have to pay" and then wait for the anti-taxer to explain how the benefit to overall society is worth communal spending.
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Nov 19, 2012 20:18
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800peepee51doodoo posted:My favorite: "I have never called the police ever. I don't see any reason my taxes should support such wasteful spending? If I don't use it, I shouldn't have to pay" and then wait for the anti-taxer to explain how the benefit to overall society is worth communal spending. Hey now, before we start ridiculing the idea, if we could at least get a cost breakdown of what the police should charge depending on the scenario of involvement that would be fantastic. I'd imagine it would cost $100 to remove a person loitering, $1000 to break up a domestic disturbance, and they wouldn't even crack a case file for less than $10,000 on investigating a murder. But see, for $200 dollars a month you can buy police insurance!
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Nov 19, 2012 20:37
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| # ? May 9, 2024 23:07 |
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Ah! I just had my first experience with overhearing people at work expressing horrible opinions. I work for a pretty small company, and a couple of the older women were getting coffee and in the course of a couple minutes I heard: "The insurance companies are the good guys!" "In the 80's I knew of a ton of what I like to call 'Welfare Moms' who had nicer cars and nicer clothes than me. That must have been nice." "Everyone on welfare is lazy, there's not a need for it anymore, there hasn't been since the Great Depression." Since the kitchen is just a few feet away I was biting my tongue so hard. I don't know how some of you do it all day with terrible co-workers.
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Nov 19, 2012 22:06
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