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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20384431 JLR plants to be built in China. Other than the obvious Chinese market, perhaps the Defender may find a home there when its retirement comes due?
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Nov 18, 2012 18:22
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Tekne posted:Seriously, your interior shouldn't remind the driver of a poorly decorated Christmas tree, especially with the amount of money the major companies spend on design. On the flip side, I like how Chrysler captured Saint Elmo's Fire just to light 300 cabins. Can you at least change the color? I don't mind the idea of glowing, but you should be able to change the color to something other than blue, which I believe is the absolute worst in terms of loving with your night vision. I changed the (somewhat less intense) interior glowing in my Mustang to red, and it's totally loving awesome.
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Nov 18, 2012 18:49
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PT6A posted:Can you at least change the color? I don't mind the idea of glowing, but you should be able to change the color to something other than blue, which I believe is the absolute worst in terms of loving with your night vision. I changed the (somewhat less intense) interior glowing in my Mustang to red, and it's totally loving awesome. Yeah, blue light just generally is not good for you: http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Health_Letter/2012/May/blue-light-has-a-dark-side/ It also just plain hurts my eyes.
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Nov 18, 2012 19:18
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Cream_Filling posted:Yeah, blue light just generally is not good for you: Night Panel. 
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Nov 18, 2012 19:19
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PT6A posted:Can you at least change the color? I don't mind the idea of glowing, but you should be able to change the color to something other than blue, which I believe is the absolute worst in terms of loving with your night vision. I changed the (somewhat less intense) interior glowing in my Mustang to red, and it's totally loving awesome. When I rented Mustangs I usually set them to purple/green/yellow before returning them  I keep mine set to red though.
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Nov 18, 2012 22:25
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MrChips posted:The appearance wasn't even the worst part; how the cars drove (and still drive) is the biggest problem with post-2005 Civics. Honda cheaped out on the suspension and powertrain of the car and didn't really update anything None of this is true. Honda had already gone to cheaper front struts in the generation you're praising. And they introduced a whole new engine and transmission for the '06 car, instead of just warming over the D series they had been using since the early 90s. Elem7 posted:The most depressing thing about the new Civic is the fact that it's relatively outclassed compared to everything else in its class and that still hasn't seemed to impact the sales one bit, it's still a huge hit. It's not, really. It's competitive in all objective measures. Its problem is that it's no longer miles beyond the competition like it was in the 90s. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 01:58
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Cocoa Crispies posted:When I rented Mustangs I usually set them to purple/green/yellow before returning them red is the best color because its like you're cruising around in a fighter jet. My friend bought a mustang and at first we mocked the color change interior lighting stuff but I have to say, its actually pretty cool and well done.
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Nov 19, 2012 16:38
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Red/red-orange are the best shades of dash and interior lighting for driving at night. Red-ish colors cause the least amount of nightvision loss and eye strain and are also the wavelengths of light that human eyes can focus on easiest. On the other hand, blue/white wavelengths cause the most night vision loss, the most eyestrain, and are the hardest for human eyes to focus on.
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Nov 19, 2012 18:43
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Elem7 posted:The most depressing thing about the new Civic is the fact that it's relatively outclassed compared to everything else in its class and that still hasn't seemed to impact the sales one bit, it's still a huge hit. It's true. I recently assisted a friend who was looking for a new car in the small sedan segment, and I was shocked at how completely noncompetitive the Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla were compared to other entries. The Corolla is woefully outdated (we didn't even test drive it), and while the Civic was recently updated, it honestly felt... crappy... like a mid-90s GM car. The Civic had a TON of road noise and a rough ride, and my friend found the dashboard distracting, ugly, and busy. I was incredibly disappointed after hearing so many great things about Civics over the years. Really unimpressive. The Civic was also really overpriced, and the option packages were completely odd. To get SiriusXM radio, you had to get the Navigation package?! That's crazy. I would think the people buying these cars are younger people, who expect things like Bluetooth, SiriusXM, iPod connectivity to be pretty standard (or cheap options), and yet, to get these options on a Civic puts you well north of $20k. It just goes to show how much brand recognition and reputation inertia affects purchasing habits: not only how many people keep buying Hondas and Toyotas, but also how much work companies like Hyundai need to do on their brand. The Elantra gets really good reviews, and is priced absurdly low compared to the competition (you can get XM, Bluetooth, iPod, heated seats, and 16" alloys for under $20k with the longest warranty in its class). I'm assuming the only reason the pricing on Elantra is so out-of-line with everybody else is because people aren't buying enough of them. People can't wrap their head around the idea that Ford, Hyundai, and GM just may be making the best cars in that class, not Honda and Toyota. Changing mindsets takes a long time.
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Nov 19, 2012 21:18
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I was just at the Seattle auto show last week, and the 2013 lineups from Honda and Toyota are just plain lame in comparison to Hyundai and Kia, especially considering the price differential and the much longer warranty on the Koreans. If I were in the market for a new sub-20k economy car I'd probably be shopping Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, and Ford a lot more seriously than Honda, Toyota, or Nissan. The times are a changin'. I really do believe the only reason Honda and Toyota continue to sell so many mediocre cars is lasting brand reputation from the 90s. It can't last forever. Their current cars are just plain not appealing nor competitive and more expensive with crappier warranties. Guinness fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 21:24
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So does anyone think that Toyota, or Honda for that matter, will ever lose their status as the most dependable things ever built? For all the massive recalls and issues with the Prius, it doesn't seem to have hurt Toyota very much. Ford has been doing the best work in the history of their existence, in my opinion at least, and they're still being beaten by the imports in most car segments. Also, Ford sells enough F-series trucks to cover all those car losses I guess so whatever.  edit This reminds me of some fanfic story from an old issue of Hot Rod about a bootlegger with an old Mustang and a panel of switches that each controlled a light system so he could "go dark" if he was being chased at night. He also had an extra twenty gallon fuel cell in the trunk, I think. Wish I could find the issue, it was a great story. Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Nov 19, 2012 |
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Nov 19, 2012 21:45
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Sir Tonk posted:edit I believe some police cars also have this feature in some form. At its simplest, all it does is not turn on the dome light, but I think the new Caprice has a way to not even turn on the instrument panel or something.
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Nov 19, 2012 22:19
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I still have a weird theory that Toyota isn't as dependable as the surveys say as every friend-owned Toyota I drive has all kinds of weird poo poo happening and I am all "do you not notice the steering wheel is crooked, the brakes are grabbing, there is a weird clunk coming from somewhere and that light is on for no reason?" and their response would be "huh?" Same with Honda. Granted, the things aren't dying on the side of the road but they are not bulletproof. Whereas your average BMW nerd is taking that thing in at even the slightest squeak, furiously demanding to speak to the manager, and also requesting a new M5 loaner during any oil changes.
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Nov 19, 2012 22:22
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Keyser S0ze posted:I still have a weird theory that Toyota isn't as dependable as the surveys say as every friend-owned Toyota I drive has all kinds of weird poo poo happening and I am all "do you not notice the steering wheel is crooked, the brakes are grabbing, there is a weird clunk coming from somewhere and that light is on for no reason?" and their response would be "huh?" Same with Honda. Granted, the things aren't dying on the side of the road but they are not bulletproof. What you're missing is that your typical Toyota will easily do 200000 miles with a crooked steering wheel, grabbing brakes, weird clunk, and lights being on for no reason.
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Nov 19, 2012 22:29
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Yeah, but so will a Cavalier, unless someone t-bones you at a speed greater than or equal to 15kph.
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Nov 19, 2012 22:34
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Keyser S0ze posted:I still have a weird theory that Toyota isn't as dependable as the surveys say as every friend-owned Toyota I drive has all kinds of weird poo poo happening and I am all "do you not notice the steering wheel is crooked, the brakes are grabbing, there is a weird clunk coming from somewhere and that light is on for no reason?" and their response would be "huh?" Same with Honda. Granted, the things aren't dying on the side of the road but they are not bulletproof. There's a lot of bullshit flying around w.r.t. the reliability of various brands. The only way to really tell is by working off some solid data, and only the manufacturers have that from the warranty work performed. Everything else is reputation, anecdotes, voices of a few pissed off owners, self fulfilling prophecies, and at best, self-reported surveys. In other words, information of very questionable usefulness. Sir Tonk posted:So does anyone think that Toyota, or Honda for that matter, will ever lose their status as the most dependable things ever built? For all the massive recalls and issues with the Prius, it doesn't seem to have hurt Toyota very much. Sure, it will just take a while.
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Nov 19, 2012 22:35
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Well, this just gets into the fact that reliability differs between models within an automaker. I believe the Prius, despite recalls, is still one of the most bulletproof cars you can buy.
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Nov 19, 2012 22:44
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Yeah, but so will a Cavalier, unless someone t-bones you at a speed greater than or equal to 15kph. Yeah but just about any car will reach 200k these days, with basic maintenance, and they're all incredibly safe. It's more of an issue of the public in general catching up and I guess I agree with Lutz in his perception of the media and their cheerleading for the imports.
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Nov 19, 2012 22:51
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Sir Tonk posted:Yeah but just about any car will reach 200k these days, with basic maintenance, and they're all incredibly safe. It's more of an issue of the public in general catching up and I guess I agree with Lutz in his perception of the media and their cheerleading for the imports. Yeah but the general public doesn't have space in their brains to remember 6 different automakers or 30 different models that are all roughly equivalent in terms of reliability or longevity. They have to think "Toyotas are best" or "Volvo is safest" and it's hard to change something with that momentum because everyone helps propagate it. A mid-90's Camry may bear little resemblance to what leaves the factory today but they still sell for way too much in the used market because people think they're worth it. It's nice to see the Optima gaining some success though. For a new car I like it a lot but I really think you have to wait ten years to find out if a car was truly any good or not, and you can't judge new cars on a currently ten year old model so reputation doesn't mean anything. It's all a gamble unless you're buying something used and well taken care of.
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Nov 19, 2012 23:53
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So what do you guys feel like is the Civic of now, now that the civic no longer fills the roll as well as it used to.(being better than every other car at the price point)
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Nov 20, 2012 00:02
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I saw a 2013 New Beetle on stock VW 17" or 18" rims. I have to say, I like it. I wonder if the 2.5T handles like a GTI.
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Nov 20, 2012 00:02
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Bob NewSCART posted:So what do you guys feel like is the Civic of now, now that the civic no longer fills the roll as well as it used to.(being better than every other car at the price point) depends on segment. Hyundai wins in many of them. The American manufacturers have many cars you could say offer better value than competitors. The market is just different than it was in the 80's or 90's too. Almost everything is reliable and comes with a decent feature list.
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Nov 20, 2012 00:06
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Bob NewSCART posted:So what do you guys feel like is the Civic of now, now that the civic no longer fills the roll as well as it used to.(being better than every other car at the price point) The Civic of right now is either the Mazda 3, Kia Soul, Hyundai Elantra, or Ford Focus if you're looking for my educated estimate.
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Nov 20, 2012 00:08
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b0nes posted:I saw a 2013 New Beetle on stock VW 17" or 18" rims. I have to say, I like it. I wonder if the 2.5T handles like a GTI. There is no 2.5T option for the Beetle.
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Nov 20, 2012 00:11
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Bovril Delight posted:There is no 2.5T option for the Beetle. However, the 2.0T is basically the same car as the GTI underneath.
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Nov 20, 2012 01:54
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Bob NewSCART posted:So what do you guys feel like is the Civic of now, now that the civic no longer fills the roll as well as it used to.(being better than every other car at the price point) As it stands right now, the Ford Focus competes with where the Civic use to be and the Mazda 3 is, i.e. sporty handling. the Chevy Cruze has taken over where the Corolla use to be i.e. comfortable quite ride with good fuel economy, and the Dodge Dart competes head to head with the Hyundai Elantra offering lots of tech features at an affordable price. e.g. The Dart can be had with an 8.4" center screen and a 7" programable TFT guage cluster, what is widely regarded to be the best infotainment system on the market, a heated steering wheel, lane departure assist with cross detection and HID lights, the Elantra has heated *rear* seats.Hell the Dart and Elantra even share a similar engine and identical transmission. All of these cars are basically competitive in terms of fuel economy, power, # of gears in the automatic trans, and pretty much all get full marks on the crash safety tests. Other than that, the new Sentra just came out and I'm not sure where it stands right now, but it's probably somewhere in the middle of the above, the Corolla is like 9 years old at this point and needs to be replaced, and if you like being poo poo on during sex or having an engine with the fewest number of valves on the market you can get the Jetta. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Nov 20, 2012 |
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Nov 20, 2012 02:13
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So the Ford 1.0l is coming to the North American Fiesta.quote:DEARBORN, Mich., Nov. 19, 2012 – The new 2014 Ford Fiesta on sale next year will be the first vehicle available in the United States with Ford’s award-winning 1.0-liter EcoBoost® engine. Though the car has not yet undergone EPA testing, it is expected to be certified as the most fuel-efficient non-hybrid car available in the United States. Now when flying you can put your engine block in you carry-on bag.    
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Nov 20, 2012 02:55
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The Jetta actually has the most valves (not counting the horrible 2.0 which is impossible to find) but other than that yeah. The TDI is a point in favor of the Jetta as well, if you like such things.
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Nov 20, 2012 02:58
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It sucks they dumbed down the Jetta to make it competitive in the class though. It used to run a bit more but you got more out of it. Now it is really a poor choice when almost every car has better features.
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Nov 20, 2012 03:01
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The Jetta actually has the most valves (not counting the horrible 2.0 which is impossible to find) but other than that yeah. AFAIK the 8v 2.0l has the fewest number of valves of any car on the NA market. Pretty sure it and the Honda V6 are the only ones that still use a timing belt too, unless there's some old Hyundai/Kia engine I'm forgetting. So when the timing belt goes you won't have to replace that many valves.
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Nov 20, 2012 03:03
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Yeah but nobody buys the 2.0L Jetta. The 2.5 is the volume seller on that car.
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Nov 20, 2012 03:06
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Keyser S0ze posted:I still have a weird theory that Toyota isn't as dependable as the surveys say as every friend-owned Toyota I drive has all kinds of weird poo poo happening and I am all "do you not notice the steering wheel is crooked, the brakes are grabbing, there is a weird clunk coming from somewhere and that light is on for no reason?" and their response would be "huh?" Same with Honda. Granted, the things aren't dying on the side of the road but they are not bulletproof. Mines been extremely reliable despite less than perfect conditions.
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Nov 20, 2012 03:20
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Bob NewSCART posted:So what do you guys feel like is the Civic of now, now that the civic no longer fills the roll as well as it used to.(being better than every other car at the price point) Basically, there isn't one. The old Civic was head and shoulders above most of its competitors. Nowadays, the remaining manufacturers have more or less caught up to each other and there's a lot less variance in terms of things like quality, reliability, or even sportiness for small cars because they're all pretty good. In part, this is due to advances in engineering and design, but also the fact that small cars are not nearly the afterthought they used to be for American carmakers, combined with things like global engineering and platform sharing between markets and between automakers themselves.
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Nov 20, 2012 03:40
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Devyl posted:I used to live in Bowling Green, Kentucky. For those of you who don't know, every single Corvette ever made has come from there. Seeing an average of 50+ Corvettes a day was about normal. When I would see people driving automatic Corvettes, they were almost always 50+ with their wife riding shotgun. The reason behind buying the autos is simple: It's so their wives can drive it on occasion. I'm from Bowling Green, and I think you forgot about St. Louis. Edit: You're exactly right though 
usafmech fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Nov 20, 2012 |
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Nov 20, 2012 03:58
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Throatwarbler posted:So the Ford 1.0l is coming to the North American Fiesta. The more powerful version of the 1.0 should make for a really entertaining motor in the Fiesta. But I can't stop thinking that two of those joined at the crank would make for an amazing TT V6.
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Nov 20, 2012 04:08
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Q_res posted:The more powerful version of the 1.0 should make for a really entertaining motor in the Fiesta. But I can't stop thinking that two of those joined at the crank would make for an amazing TT V6. I think you mean I6.
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Nov 20, 2012 04:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:However, the 2.0T is basically the same car as the GTI underneath. That said, I still like the Beetle a little bit more. It feels much less claustrophobic inside and the outside actually has some personality. Also, you can buy brand new 2012 Beetle Turbos for under $20k which is a ridiculously good value.
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Nov 20, 2012 04:33
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Cream_Filling posted:The old Civic was head and shoulders above most of its competitors. The small Mazdas and Toyotas were always right up there with Honda during the 80s and 90s
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Nov 20, 2012 05:56
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Throatwarbler posted:AFAIK the 8v 2.0l has the fewest number of valves of any car on the NA market. Pretty sure it and the Honda V6 are the only ones that still use a timing belt too, unless there's some old Hyundai/Kia engine I'm forgetting. So when the timing belt goes you won't have to replace that many valves. Nope. The 2.5 turbo in both the WRX and STI still use a timing belt.
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Nov 20, 2012 06:24
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Throatwarbler posted:AFAIK the 8v 2.0l has the fewest number of valves of any car on the NA market. Pretty sure it and the Honda V6 are the only ones that still use a timing belt too, unless there's some old Hyundai/Kia engine I'm forgetting. So when the timing belt goes you won't have to replace that many valves. The crossflow 2.0 8V is also 2% of the build mix and is a loss leader which virtually nobody buys.
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Nov 20, 2012 12:43
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