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Seashell Salesman posted:My wife now wants to book a trainer from Bark Busters to come on Saturday. I even spoke with them on the phone and they seemed completely confident that they could solve her barking after I explained the situation in detail. I guess I am okay with this taking some time and lots of money I just need to be able to sleep a bit in the meantime. My wife seems on the brink of breaking down altogether. I know the trainers work independently but one of my neighbors hired a trainer through Bark Busters and absolutely could not stop raving at our last pet committee meeting about how they solved all the problems with their dog and if you are having any problems to call them, I know one of their dogs was having severe issues with anxiety and behavior in the elevator which is a major issue when you live in a highrise but they said everything is beyond perfect now and from what I have seen they are right. I called before I picked up Cooper and they were super friendly and helpful, also super expensive but according to my neighbor absolutely worth the money. I decided to hold off a little bit to see what if any behavior/training issues Cooper might have before dropping that much money and knock on wood everything is going great so far but I will call them if he starts to have issues.
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Nov 20, 2012 01:42
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Three Olives posted:I called before I picked up Cooper and they were super friendly and helpful, also super expensive but according to my neighbor absolutely worth the money. I decided to hold off a little bit to see what if any behavior/training issues Cooper might have before dropping that much money and knock on wood everything is going great so far but I will call them if he starts to have issues. IIRC, Cooper is still a puppy? If so, group classes with an emphasis on socialization will be worth more than private training at this point. Doxies have a reputation for being reactive, so the more thoroughly and controlled you can get his socialization the better.
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Nov 20, 2012 07:15
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Yeah, Cooper is four months old, I'm planning on doing a puppy group class that my vet offers (It's a very diversified vet, they have boarding and doggy daycare, a dog friendly coffee shop, and a pet supply store) now that he has just finished all his shots.
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Nov 20, 2012 17:31
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What do you guys think about Martingale collars for obedience training. Our 8 month old German Shepard/mutt is edging in on 60 lbs. While he knows lots of commands, he really only listens when he wants to. He's very stubborn, and isn't very motivated by treats/food. We've done clicker training (which was difficult due to the lack of food motivation) in the past. He also has an aggressive streak in him that we'd like to get under control. It's mostly just him being super possessive of things he really likes (Bully Sticks, Pig Ears, etc). If you try to pet him or sometimes even just come near him when he has one of those he will growl, and nip/bark (so far it's warning nips, he's never actually bitten us). Now that he's getting so large, we'd really like to get him actually listening to us all the time, not just when he feels like it. We're considering an obedience training class with some of the local trainers, but it seems like they all want training collars (Martingale is probably the roughest I'd be willing to go, no pronged collars or anything). Edit: The 2 local programs we're looking at are http://www.barkbusters.com/ - the winner in my mind, in house training and http://titerence.com/noproblem/programs.html - This seems more sketchy to me, and is where the training leash question comes from. Opinions? Gerdalti fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Nov 20, 2012 |
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Nov 20, 2012 17:39
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Gerdalti posted:What do you guys think about Martingale collars for obedience training. Martingales are not correction collars. The only reason they exist is because some dogs are ridiculous and have necks as big as their heads and this makes it easy for them to slip their collars. If your class instructors all want correction collars, find new instructors because they are bad. And all of their training is highly likely to make the growling and nipping you are experiencing worse. Find a trainer via links in the OP.
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Nov 20, 2012 17:57
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MrFurious posted:Martingales are not correction collars. The only reason they exist is because some dogs are ridiculous and have necks as big as their heads and this makes it easy for them to slip their collars. Bad rear end, it's been awhile since I looked at the OP, and I didn't remember those links were there. Thanks!
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Nov 20, 2012 18:02
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A properly sized/adjusted martingale will get no tighter than an exact fit for the dog's neck. The possessiveness you describe is known as 'resource guarding,' and you definitely want to nip that in the bud. The training thread has a lot of advice on how to deal with the issue, and the book Mine! by Jean Donaldson is also a fantastic resource.
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Nov 20, 2012 18:23
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MrFurious posted:Martingales are not correction collars. The only reason they exist is because some dogs are ridiculous and have necks as big as their heads and this makes it easy for them to slip their collars. I have a choke chain on my dogs during obedience per rules, but I don't normally even have a leash attached. Healy starts jumping around me excitedly every time she sees me pull out a choke, because that means work, which leads to praise, play and treats. This is Healy with one of my favorite collars (hand made out of incredibly soft leather): 
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Nov 20, 2012 18:43
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Yesterday I called our vet, half demented from lack of sleep, and asked for a referral ASAP to a neurologist. I think they could tell how bad it was and called in a prescription for Xanax, for Crackers, at our pharmacy. Today my wife will be taking Crackers to the vet to get blood work and x-rays done, then once those are cleared we go to the neurologist. The Xanax worked perfectly and we all enjoyed relaxed, practically uninterrupted sleep last night. So I didn't get a chance to upload video of Crackers going berserk last night because I was too busy sleeping.
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Nov 20, 2012 19:54
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That is the best reason for not being able to make a video. I hope you get some resolution soon! Poor puppy probably got her first good night's sleep in a while too.
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Nov 20, 2012 19:57
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Pile of Kittens posted:That is the best reason for not being able to make a video. I hope you get some resolution soon! Poor puppy probably got her first good night's sleep in a while too. Yeah I think it must be worst for her since she is waking up and exhausting herself, getting her heart beating really fast, and nearly hyperventilating every time it happens.
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Nov 20, 2012 20:18
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Still excited to see the video. Remember, the Xanax should be used as a temporary tool used in conjunction with training to eliminate the root issue. A prescription is not a fix for the problem.
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Nov 20, 2012 21:06
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So my brother got a lab/shepard puppy about 3 months ago even though I advised against it since neither he nor I are home much. Lately the dog has been having this problem where it just ravages our entire back yard without a care in the world and we can't exactly bring it inside since it'll ravage everything inside. I know it's quite a vague problem but do you guys have any tips that will prevent the dog from being a character from Rampage World Tour?
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Nov 20, 2012 23:16
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horchata posted:So my brother got a lab/shepard puppy about 3 months ago even though I advised against it since neither he nor I are home much. Lately the dog has been having this problem where it just ravages our entire back yard without a care in the world and we can't exactly bring it inside since it'll ravage everything inside. Play with the dog. Seriously, it just sounds like it has a lot of crazy puppy energy and no one is caring for him properly. You can't expect an energetic dog to be satisfied and tire itself out in a boring backyard, so of course he's getting up to mischief trying to make his own entertainment. I'd advise long walks multiple times a day. Running wouldn't be a good idea for his joints because he's still a growing puppy, but long walks and actual human stimulation would go a long way to meeting his needs. Leaving him outside because you don't want him to destroy the house is a terrible solution. I understand that this should be your brother's problem, but it doesn't sound like he's particularly responsible. People are going to disagree with this, but if I was you, I would just try and get him to rehome the dog with people who can handle an energetic puppy.
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Nov 20, 2012 23:31
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MrFurious posted:Still excited to see the video. Remember, the Xanax should be used as a temporary tool used in conjunction with training to eliminate the root issue. A prescription is not a fix for the problem. If its neurological in nature and not strictly speaking just a behavioral issue, why is Xanax just a temporary tool? If the "outbursts" are seizures (and xanax can be used for seizures and anxiety) then maybe some investigation into the source is worthwhile. Regardless, I think a) a vet should definitely see the dog and a tape of the out bursts b) a vet behaviorist is probably in order anyways.
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Nov 20, 2012 23:57
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Serella posted:People are going to disagree with this, but if I was you, I would just try and get him to rehome the dog with people who can handle an energetic puppy. A tip? Exercise it a lot more. Is the dog crate trained? Or are you just letting a 5 month old dog hang out in the backyard all day? Give us some more details on what the daily routine is.
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Nov 21, 2012 00:06
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wtftastic posted:If its neurological in nature and not strictly speaking just a behavioral issue, why is Xanax just a temporary tool? If the "outbursts" are seizures (and xanax can be used for seizures and anxiety) then maybe some investigation into the source is worthwhile. Regardless, I think a) a vet should definitely see the dog and a tape of the out bursts b) a vet behaviorist is probably in order anyways. Just so we are clear here we have taken the dog to two different vets, and our preferred vet has now seen Crackers twice and videos of her night time barking taken over two or three nights. I definitely don't intend to keep Crackers on Xanax permanently but I'm very grateful to have them until we can address whatever the underlying issue is. Thanks to everyone for the advice and cautions so far  e: also I am not leaning towards either neurological or behavioral causes yet, our vet wants to rule out any non-neurological medical cause first (bony growth in her tail, blood-borne disease), then refer to a neurologist, then if the neurologist also thinks it's not medical go to a vet behaviorist. So far we know her x-rays and stool are okay, blood results should be tomorrow. Seashell Salesman fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Nov 21, 2012 |
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Nov 21, 2012 00:43
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Seashell Salesman posted:Just so we are clear here we have taken the dog to two different vets, and our preferred vet has now seen Crackers twice and videos of her night time barking taken over two or three nights. I definitely don't intend to keep Crackers on Xanax permanently but I'm very grateful to have them until we can address whatever the underlying issue is. Thanks to everyone for the advice and cautions so far I must have missed that! Thanks for the info/ follow up.
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Nov 21, 2012 01:06
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Okay so I got my wife upload 3 videos while I was at work, I don't know which ones are from when, but I'd guess the last 2 are from Sunday night and the first one was from Saturday night. I don't really know why she put a long description in there, I didn't put them on youtube to solicit random comments. Once folks ITT have watched them I will probably take them down. http://youtu.be/nUbWn8yx8XA http://youtu.be/vLfJcz1HDPM http://youtu.be/TYVm9zglsAs
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Nov 21, 2012 01:33
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Seashell Salesman posted:Okay so I got my wife upload 3 videos while I was at work, I don't know which ones are from when, but I'd guess the last 2 are from Sunday night and the first one was from Saturday night. I don't really know why she put a long description in there, I didn't put them on youtube to solicit random comments. Once folks ITT have watched them I will probably take them down. I don't think I fully understood the problem, I'm no expert but this seems more like severe psychological trauma like maybe abuse with reoccurring nightmares, she seems terrified.
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Nov 21, 2012 01:38
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Does your dog seem really out of it or startled after these episodes? can you distract her from them or do they just kind of go on until she's good and done?
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Nov 21, 2012 02:07
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Seashell Salesman posted:Okay so I got my wife upload 3 videos while I was at work, I don't know which ones are from when, but I'd guess the last 2 are from Sunday night and the first one was from Saturday night. I don't really know why she put a long description in there, I didn't put them on youtube to solicit random comments. Once folks ITT have watched them I will probably take them down. Noticed consistent tail chasing. Hard to tell because of the glare from the camera and lights, but I'm not clear that she's focusing on anything in particular as well, with the possible exception of her tail. Might make sure that eyes and ears have been checked. Very interested in what the vets and students have to say. Aside from that I think we should all shut up and not play internet veterinarian. MrFurious fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Nov 21, 2012 |
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Nov 21, 2012 02:14
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MrFurious posted:Noticed consistent tail chasing. Hard to tell because of the glare from the camera and lights, but I'm not clear that she's focusing on anything in particular as well, with the possible exception of her tail. Might make sure that vision and eyes have been checked. Very interested in what the vets and students have to say. Aside from that I think we should all shut up and not play internet veterinarian. I don't think any of us are playing internet vet, we're just throwing out suggestions and ideas and trying to learn more about whats going on.
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Nov 21, 2012 02:16
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horchata posted:I know it's quite a vague problem but do you guys have any tips that will prevent the dog from being a character from Rampage World Tour? My dog is the same breedmix (I think) and you need to know this is a long process. I won't pretend to know what is in your dog's best interest or the solution, but I have been working with my dog every day for 6 months to get her to stop being destructive. There is no magic cure. If you aren't dedicated to the task you should consider rehoming her. To give you an idea of some of the things I did/do. I wake up an extra hour before work to take her for a long walk every single morning. I have not missed one. Every single day she gets at least a mile walk in before I leave. Usually more. Pretty much every night I work with her on some obedience. I took her to the AKC good puppy classes. I had a private trainer over twice. I took her to the regular vet multiple times and after posting in the thread yesterday and getting advice from MrFurious I am now going to seek out a vet behaviorist. I have gotten her from destruction as soon as we left to being able to tolerate absences. The last 2 days she has actually gone the entire day without destroying anything. This is after 6 months of daily work. Every single day I work with her. And the work is not done either. Is your brother up to it?
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Nov 21, 2012 02:24
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wtftastic posted:Does your dog seem really out of it or startled after these episodes? can you distract her from them or do they just kind of go on until she's good and done? To me she seems totally normal afterwards. Sometimes I can distract her out of it, I think it gets harder to distract her the further she gets into it. If she gets all the way to running in circles barking I can't get her to stop except by physically restraining her. I don't know if I mentioned but the night before last (before we got her medicine) she jumped off the bed and ran in circles, running into the door of her crate- cutting herself- and then continued running in circles until calming down. We didn't realize she had hurt herself until the next morning from the blood on the carpet. She doesn't actually ever use the crate, we bought it on the vet's advice. The thinking was that she might feel more relaxed sleeping in the crate, but when we put her in there for bed she immediately went into barking spinning mania so I don't know if/when we will try to get her to use the crate. I do think it's a good idea for her to have a private space to sleep or chill when we are at home or not at home (I'm not sure I'm comfortable closing the door on her in there), or for bed time, but it can wait.
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Nov 21, 2012 02:34
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Three Olives posted:I don't think I fully understood the problem, I'm no expert but this seems more like severe psychological trauma like maybe abuse with reoccurring nightmares, she seems terrified. Eh, I'm not seeing any submissive posturing or peeing or anything like that. A bit freaked out, maybe, but more frantic than afraid. Didn't you guys say the last owner isn't being very forthcoming about whether this was happening in the last place? And you've only had her two weeks? Sounds super fishy. I think this is why the last owners gave her up.
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Nov 21, 2012 05:41
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That dog absolutely needs to see a neurologist and a behaviorist if you want further investigation into this. Your primary vet could probably do some drug trials to see if certain things work, but IMO if it were me I'd be wanting to do some more advanced diagnostics first, as well as a full neurologic exam and behavioral history assessment. With that in mind, those episodes look very similar (vocalization, licking/fly biting, air scratching with that hind leg) to some of the episodes that are seen in Cavalier King Charles Spaniels with syringohydromyelia caused by caudal occipital malformation syndrome. This is also a problem seen in Papillons. The other major neurologic things that these could be are complex partial seizures (like the fly biting ones typically seen with temporal lobe epilepsy) or other malformation of skull/brain such as congenital hydrocephalus. Behaviorally it could also be manifestations of OCD as others have commented. Either way, I'd want to get it sorted out by specialists for sure. edit: here is a decent video showing some of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDjxvgfUVRU Topoisomerase fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Nov 21, 2012 |
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Nov 21, 2012 06:47
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Pile of Kittens posted:Didn't you guys say the last owner isn't being very forthcoming about whether this was happening in the last place? And you've only had her two weeks? Sounds super fishy. I think this is why the last owners gave her up. Topoisomerase posted:That dog absolutely needs to see a neurologist and a behaviorist if you want further investigation into this. Your primary vet could probably do some drug trials to see if certain things work, but IMO if it were me I'd be wanting to do some more advanced diagnostics first, as well as a full neurologic exam and behavioral history assessment. That looks similar to Crackers' behavior. I really hope she doesn't have any serious congenital or degenerative illness like those. I have no idea what treatment for OCD in dogs comprises.
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Nov 21, 2012 18:40
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Seashell Salesman posted:I have no idea what treatment for OCD in dogs comprises. Can't speak to the rest, but this is typically treated with a combination of drugs and behavior modification training. For example, you'd use a temporary prescription of Xanax to lower threshold and stabilize her so that you could actually work on training. Over time, you phase out the Xanax as the training progresses.
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Nov 21, 2012 18:51
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Topoisomerase posted:That dog absolutely needs to see a neurologist and a behaviorist if you want further investigation into this. Your primary vet could probably do some drug trials to see if certain things work, but IMO if it were me I'd be wanting to do some more advanced diagnostics first, as well as a full neurologic exam and behavioral history assessment. Three Olives posted:I don't think I fully understood the problem, I'm no expert but this seems more like severe psychological trauma like maybe abuse with reoccurring nightmares, she seems terrified. Not this.
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Nov 22, 2012 00:52
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The vet has called us to let us know that the last remaining test came back normal. She will be referring us to a neurologist but we have to wait until Friday to get more details- the veterinary clinic is closed on Wednesday and tomorrow is Thanksgiving. Last night we increased Cracker's dose of Xanax on the advice of our vet, it seemed to completely (or almost completely) stop her from growling.
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Nov 22, 2012 01:30
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MrFurious posted:Can't speak to the rest, but this is typically treated with a combination of drugs and behavior modification training. For example, you'd use a temporary prescription of Xanax to lower threshold and stabilize her so that you could actually work on training. Over time, you phase out the Xanax as the training progresses. Actually, benzodiazepines interfere with learning and short-term memory and should not be used in conjunction with behavioural modification because it won't stick. Another drug might work well though, if it turns out to be an OCD issue.
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Nov 22, 2012 01:49
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Braki posted:Actually, benzodiazepines interfere with learning and short-term memory and should not be used in conjunction with behavioural modification because it won't stick. Another drug might work well though, if it turns out to be an OCD issue. You know, I was wondering if this had the same effect on dogs as humans. It's pretty dose dependent, but if you just upped her dose, yeah, she needs to come off it before you expect training to stick. Don't stop trying to keep her trained, be consistent... just don't expect her to pick up new things very quickly.
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Nov 22, 2012 21:43
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Today we saw our neurologist for the first time. It was a bit of a hassle to get out of Seattle to the suburb where this vet hospital is, but apparently you can take your dog on the bus here. The neurologist was very nice and after examining Crackers she told us her first guess is seizures, and that she would like to try Crackers on phenobarbital. She agreed with us and our vet that this would be a very strange behavioural problem, and that it looks like some sudden external stimulus is precipitating the episodes. Also, the neurologist thought that after having physically examining Crackers she would be surprised if she had any congenital cranial or spinal problem. Unfortunately our chemist closes at 6PM on Saturday and it seems like the others around here don't do prescriptions after 6PM either, so we have to wait until tomorrow to try her new medicine. We are also waiting on some liver function test to make sure she can safely take the phenobarbital in the long term but we aren't expecting any problem there.
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Nov 25, 2012 04:03
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Thanks for posting follow-up. I'm glad that you got to the specialist and I hope that the phenobarbital helps. I actually was a bit leaning towards seizure after you said the benzo you had her on might have decreased the episodes a little, even though alprazolam is a pretty poor antiepileptic at a higher dose it can have some seizure suppressing effects as most benzos do.
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Nov 25, 2012 07:13
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I'm a pretty new dog owner, about 6 months ago I adopted my first dog since the family dog I grew up with. His name is Roy and he's a 5 year old black lab mix with heartworms, which seemed like no big deal, as the organization I adopted him from, Austin Pets Alive! here in Texas, offered to treat him for free after his adoption. They're a really great group. And Roy turned out to be a great dog, he's super sweet and handsome and almost everyone he meets remarks about how sweet he is, even when getting his medical shots. There's a problem though, a couple days after adopting him he got lethargic and lost his appetite, and his lymph nodes swelled up to gargantuan sizes. Two biopsies later, at APA!'s expense, and he was diagnosed with lymphoma cancer. He's on prednisone and chemotherapy treatment, and the doctor treating him with APA! said maybe 3 years could be expected before he succumbed to the cancer. Until then, most dogs respond pretty well to treatment without the sickness we see in human chemotherapy patients. Fair enough, all you can do is play the hand your dealt, right? I figure it's a good thing Roy found an owner before the lymphoma manifested. I guess I'm just wondering if anybody has any experience with dogs and chemotherapy? Words of encouragement? The treatment hasn't exactly been going perfectly, there have been some complications from the treatment (including the loss of most of the hair on his back). Regardless, through most of it, Roy has been a pretty happy dog who seems not to notice what's going on except when his back itches. I'm just getting extremely nervous that I'm not doing the best thing for Roy, and the treatment he requires is going to quickly exceed the range of my pocketbook if more complications outside of Austin Pets Alive's ability to treat arise.
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Nov 26, 2012 05:40
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J Greedy posted:I'm just getting extremely nervous that I'm not doing the best thing for Roy, and the treatment he requires is going to quickly exceed the range of my pocketbook if more complications outside of Austin Pets Alive's ability to treat arise. Condolences. Did you get pet insurance before hand? This boat might've sailed since the pet insurance industry is now worse than the people insurance industry on covering pre-existing conditions. My family's black lab was 8 when she was diagnosed with cancer, but chemo wasn't even an option. As for the draining your wallet bit...I've known a few people who've had to make some really, really tough decisions when faced with tight financial situations and high vet bills. Giving the dog back to the shelter is heartbreaking, but people have done it...the sad truth is that older dogs in shelters with medical problems like that often don't make it back out again. The best thing you can do is give the dog a happy, comfortable home with lots of love and take it a day at a time.
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Nov 26, 2012 06:23
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Amazing thread. Had a dog growing up, and am in a good place now to raise a puppy. Can anyone nitpick this breeder for me? https://www.asdkennels.com
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Nov 27, 2012 00:45
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ContraceptiveCereal posted:Amazing thread. Had a dog growing up, and am in a good place now to raise a puppy. Can anyone nitpick this breeder for me? https://www.asdkennels.com Little bit short on time, but here are first impressions.
Hope this helps, maybe someone else can offer some more comments. If it were me, I'd have some reservations at this stage. They're not garbage, but they're not up to my personal standards. But I'm a snob.
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Nov 27, 2012 01:07
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Definitely helps. Thanks for taking the time.
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Nov 27, 2012 01:41
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