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JT Jag posted:Too bad the Kennedys all died, they'd have gotten in on this otherwise. I mean.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_family This family is huge and they could still run for something.
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Nov 21, 2012 01:28
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Pillowpants posted:I mean.. Not that they still aren't basically American royalty, but losing JFK Jr to that plane crash was a big blow to them.
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Nov 21, 2012 01:34
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Sir Tonk posted:Wouldn't he just be like another Paul Ryan though? They seem similar enough. No. Ron and Rand have set up a very special grifter operation where they prey on the hopes of the  ution crowd through events, money bombs, and (yes) newsletters. That's what this is all about. Rand hops into the clown tent for a year to bilk that crowd out of their pill money, which requires putting on a show. Paul Ryan didn't speak at the Ron Paul circus in Tampa. Rand did. And that's all the difference in the world.Pillowpants posted:This family is huge and they could still run for something. Joe Kennedy III was just elected to Congress in Barney Frank's old district.
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Nov 21, 2012 01:35
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The Landstander posted:Local edition: a Western New York State Senator, Republican Marc Grisanti, won in 2010 on a mixture of dumb luck and on his entrenched Democratic opponent not so much as spending the money he had fundraised for his reelection. He was then a key Republican vote for the passage of the gay marriage bill - and found himself with a more favorable, but still swingy, constituency after redistricting. Are you insinuating that by reaching across the aisle and making a deal happen instead of just bickering with the Republicans is going to hurt Cuomo? The guy worked with him, and he helped out his campaign. His party is irrelevant. No one is going to attack him for that at the primaries in person, because all he has to do is respond with “Why don’t we have a little discussion about an actual agenda, and issues, and progress, and what’s good for the people as opposed to just hyperpartisan rhetoric," like he's already done, to massive cheers. That platform has worked pretty well for a few other guys if I recall correctly. He's for raising the state’s minimum wage, reforming campaign finance laws, and decriminalizing marijuana. I doubt he's going to lose too much of the progressive vote unless someone shows up who is an amazing speaker, or something drastic happens.
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Nov 21, 2012 01:37
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Pillowpants posted:I mean.. Bobby Kennedy's grandson Conor made national headlines quite recently*, we'll just have to wait and see where that takes him. *For dating and then breaking up with Taylor Swift.
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Nov 21, 2012 02:49
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Dating an older popstar at 18 puts him on an even better track than JFK, at the very least. I expect him to be the New American Emperor by the time he's 40.
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Nov 21, 2012 03:38
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Chantilly Say posted:Bobby Kennedy's grandson Conor made national headlines quite recently*, we'll just have to wait and see where that takes him.
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Nov 21, 2012 05:20
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JT Jag posted:If he did the breaking up, then can you say star potential? Obama will probably just call him a jackass for hurting Taylor Swift
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Nov 21, 2012 05:29
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mr. unhsib posted:Jindal is loving dreaming if he has eyes on the Presidency. Jesus. "We just not be the party of the stupid...hey guys, want to hear about this exorcism I witnessed?" quote:As Murphy points out, Susan was undergoing treatment for cancer and certainly had reason to be upset; Jindal believed she was “possessed.” Murphy quotes his account of the dorm-room exorcism which seems to have involved Susan being restrained after she tries to escape, at which point: This reads like a loving comedy skit.
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Nov 21, 2012 06:57
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Joementum posted:
I know, and Caroline Kennedy is still involved in Politics, Patrick Kennedy could be again if he stops drinking, and Kathleen Kennedy used to be.
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Nov 21, 2012 12:08
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Hey guys, Obama said things that are just as dumb as Marco Rubio's, but nobody makes a big deal out of THAT: http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...rse.single.html
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Nov 21, 2012 13:36
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Mr Interweb posted:Hey guys, Obama said things that are just as dumb as Marco Rubio's, but nobody makes a big deal out of THAT: The Young Earth Creationists didn't vote for the President, and he's not actively pushing an agenda that involves the earth being 6,000 years old. He was asked the question at a religious forum--yes, it's a weasel answer, but if he'd been booed that would have been the story instead of the fact that he gave a purely scientific answer.
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Nov 21, 2012 14:30
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What would be hilarious is if Christie feigns disgust as to how the Republican party treated him for working with the President on Sandy recovery and flips parties (obviously without changing any positions whatsoever), because Democrats are dumb enough to nominate him for president on some bipartisanship kick. shamelessly stolen from Atrios
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Nov 21, 2012 15:24
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:What would be hilarious is if Christie feigns disgust as to how the Republican party treated him for working with the President on Sandy recovery and flips parties (obviously without changing any positions whatsoever), because Democrats are dumb enough to nominate him for president on some bipartisanship kick. Christie won't flip parties, but if it gets bad enough for him I could see him leaving the GOP and running as an independent.
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Nov 21, 2012 15:28
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It's rather sad that the Kennedy family made their money bootlegging(maybe) and insider stock trading but have never been able to shake off the new money rich shackles after 80 years. If any of them could stop being drunk and crazy long enough they might produce another Teddy. Even he had his closet skeletons though. Laugh at Rubio and the other intelligent design politicians all you want, but that plank is not going to get yanked out of the platform any time soon. At the state level there's serious legislation being pushed through to take away local school board authority and put it into the hands of a state regulating board that will allow corporations and churches to run charter schools and receive state funds. Michigan has a bill right now being pushed through the lame duck session that would do just that, because Betsy DeVos one way or the other is going to force her vision of religious schools on Michigan. She ran for Governor because she wants this so bad. Erik Prince, the founder of Blackwater is her brother. The politicians are the front people for the real power. Who cares what stooge they back to run for office.
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Nov 21, 2012 15:55
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Highspeeddub posted:It's rather sad that the Kennedy family made their money bootlegging(maybe) and insider stock trading but have never been able to shake off the new money rich shackles after 80 years. If any of them could stop being drunk and crazy long enough they might produce another Teddy. Even he had his closet skeletons though. Why do you think the so called new rich are more prone to substance abuse and mental illness?
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Nov 21, 2012 16:51
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:What would be hilarious is if Christie feigns disgust as to how the Republican party treated him for working with the President on Sandy recovery and flips parties (obviously without changing any positions whatsoever), because Democrats are dumb enough to nominate him for president on some bipartisanship kick. I'm naive and do think if this did happen Christie would probably moderate his social issue positions - I doubt he personally cares about gay marriage or abortion either way to keep pushing it beyond FLIP FLOPPER calls, and if he went Democratic, he'd have some of that anyway. It won't really happen. I want to see a world where the GOP goes harder right, and Chris Christie is the nominee. My personal crazy political fan fiction: 2016 Republican Primary comes. Economy has improved, and it looking hopeful for Dems leaves other top-line candidates like Rubio sitting out, feeling their chances aren't good enough. The GOP's loss in 2012 pushes them to go even more conservative and crazy, the Tea Party voice winning out, the GOP brand is more tarnished. Christie says gently caress it, and runs anyway. It's 2012 all over again, possibly worse. Rick Santorum makes his second run. A ousted of congress in 2014 Michelle Bachmann runs again, saying God told her the people need her more than ever. A wild card crazy enters the scene, Todd Akin, believing he has a chance because he is an idiot. Rand Paul takes up his father's reigns, with none of the charm. Chris Christie is by far the most palatable, the media and 75% of the country accepts him as the inevitable... Except he's not. The toxicity of the GOP plummets turnout, but the crazies? The crazies always show up. Every primary counts, as Akin's last minute surge with Iowa and riding it out threatens Christie in the delegate count. It's almost a brokered convention, but Christie, somehow, someway, wins out. All the while, Christie is lambasted as a RINO. He's from Liberal New Jersey. He worked with Obama. We nominated a New England Moderate last time and lost. Everyone can easily see frustration building on Christie. He snaps at reporters, and FOX News goes full on attack on him every time. Clinton doesn't run on the Dem side, and Biden is easily accepted, with the Obama and Clinton machines behind him, everyone steps aside. Biden picks one of the Castro brothers as his VP. Christie doesn't have that luxury. Although the establishment knows he's poison, they know they have to fire up their dwindling base. GameChange'16 or whatever it shall be called reveals that although Christie fought it kicking and screaming, he had to choose Todd Akin as his Vice Presidential pick. Akin, now in the general, blunders like expected. He can't shut up about rape and other social conservative issues. Christie is asked about his running mate constantly, and keeps biting the heads off reporters. The first debate comes. Christie is visibly annoyed. The first question for him is about Akin. Christie has enough and slams Akin and goes on a massive rant against the insanity of his party. Biden is shocked at this, and kinda shrugs and agrees with Christie. The second and third debates boil down to Joe and Chris shooting the poo poo, talking about things of no consequence. The Media has no idea how to handle one side so obviously tossing in the towel. The vice presidential debate is Akin trying to 'salvage' the campaign, going on about real America, tradition, but tripping over himself...probably something about rape. Castro does no harm to the Biden ticket. Biden wins the election, Obama 2012 Map+ North Carolina/Indiana/Missouri. Christie becomes a voice shouting down the crazies in his party and bluntly telling them they're not winning a loving election until they stop with the crazy. This has about a 0.00001% chance of happening. I don't rule it outside the realm of possibility because Rick "Homosexuality is like Bestiality" Santorum was a very much serious candidate in 2012. But man...we can dream. 
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Nov 21, 2012 17:48
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I'm not going to lie, I got slightly tumescent reading that. If only, oh if only.
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Nov 21, 2012 18:05
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I realize that four years out, any discussion of the election is basically going to be pretty much all made up, but I think that post deserves the label of "fan fiction".
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Nov 21, 2012 19:19
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Joementum posted:No. Ron and Rand have set up a very special grifter operation where they prey on the hopes of the I guess if Rand tacks hard towards the RONPAUL crowd it might work, but all the dudes I know really don't like his kid and they're really good at holding a grudge. Paul Ryan actually seems like a better bet for the crowd, he's more of a true believer than Rand will ever be.
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Nov 21, 2012 20:09
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VanSandman posted:Why do you think the so called new rich are more prone to substance abuse and mental illness? I don't. The Kennedy family however has a good track record of being tabloid fodder. I don't see anyone from that family looming on the horizon for political aspirations and seem content living off the family trust. Second term presidents are prone to some sort of scandal or gently caress up that the other party decides needs lots of hearings and investigations; not so much to discredit the lame duck in the White House but any future candidate from their party who has aspirations of running. The Republicans jumped the gun with Benghazi and it's going to be harder for them later on when and if something Obama does is a legitimate reason to hold election damaging hearings to make sure no one can ride his coattails into the White House in 2017.
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Nov 21, 2012 20:12
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Highspeeddub posted:I don't. The Kennedy family however has a good track record of being tabloid fodder. I don't see anyone from that family looming on the horizon for political aspirations and seem content living off the family trust. If Obama hasn't had a terrible scandal so far, it seems unlikely that he's going to gently caress up majorly enough to give the Republicans in Congress something legitimate to deal with. I mean, the biggest scandal so far has been Fast and Furious, and there's enough blame sauce to spread around that other than Darrel Issa, nobody wants to jump in.
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Nov 21, 2012 21:18
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The thinking is that second term Presidents are confronted with a dilemma where they don't have to worry about getting re-elected, but suddenly become a lot more interested in their legacy. This leads to them over-reaching which then becomes a scandal (like Iran Contra with Reagan) or the resistance to their over-reaching makes it clear that they're going to be a lame duck for the majority of their second term (like Social Security reform with W. Bush). For what it's worth, Obama buys into this theory. quote:“I don’t presume that because I won an election that everybody suddenly agrees with me on everything," said Obama. "I’m more than familiar with all the literature about presidential overreach in second terms. We are very cautious about that.” This is what we would expect from Obama: caution and a desire to find compromise. But hubris can always get the better of people, whether they decide to authorize U-2 spy planes, or sleep around, or start drawing up an enemies list.
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Nov 21, 2012 21:38
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Volkerball posted:Are you insinuating that by reaching across the aisle and making a deal happen instead of just bickering with the Republicans is going to hurt Cuomo? No, I expect he'll utilize it for bipartisan cred. And I don't think anyone isn't giving him credit for the gay marriage bill. But I do think it bugged some Democrats - justly or unjustly - that he was incredibly 'hands off' when it came to getting a majority in the state Senate. Grisanti is just one example, especially since he never actually endorsed him but just allowed him to play an ad that was exactly like an endorsement while giving Amodeo some niceties if directly asked. And that he seems to be continuing this process with the "Democrats" who he doesn't seem to mind caucusing with the Republicans. Combined as part of a larger package with some of his policy choices, this might be a bit hard to sell to a portion of average Democratic primary voters - which is also Chris Hayes' point. Overall, I'm just saying if he runs, he's going to be heading into some progressive/liberal backlash, whether he's running explicitly as a Third Way/DLC guy or not. edit: also in case it's not obvious, I do mean on the presidential level. No way he gets primaried in NY or anything like that edit 2: also, regarding Christie: quote:The Republican governor, who will face re-election in 2013 and is considered a contender for the U.S. presidency in 2016, has a 67 percent favorability rating among registered voters in [New Jersey], up from 48 percent in October. The Landstander fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Nov 21, 2012 |
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Nov 21, 2012 22:28
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Gov. Terry Branstad wants to get rid of the Ames Straw Poll, but Iowa GOP chairman A.J. Spiker wants to keep it and says that it's not Branstad's decision to make anyway. The Straw Poll is, of course, ridiculous and just a party fundraiser with no predictive power. Another interesting twist here is that Ron Paul very nearly won the 2012 Ames Straw Poll. Bachmann only beat him by ~100 votes. Spiker worked for the Paul campaign and was one of the chairpersons who allowed their delegation to read the Ron Paul delegate votes at the convention, so he'll be a very interesting person to keep an eye on in 2015 if Rand enters the race.
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Nov 21, 2012 23:32
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Obama already secured his legacy through the Affordable Care Act. He won't be faced with the overreach temptation that other presidents have faced. Boy, I hope that Christie goes scorched earth with the extremist wing of the GOP. He's the least reprehensible Republican right now.
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Nov 22, 2012 03:01
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Teddybear posted:Boy, I hope that Christie goes scorched earth with the extremist wing of the GOP. He's the least reprehensible Republican right now.
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Nov 22, 2012 04:04
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:He vetoed a good samaritan law that protected people who call 911 after witnessing an overdose because it might let drug dealers "off the hook." Yeah, people seriously need to stop doing this with Republicans, it was the same with John Huntsman: "Oh, he's so reasonable, he doesn't think the Earth is 6000 years old, he should run as a Democrat, I'd vote for him!" while ignoring his positions on well... everything. Christie has awful positions on 99% of things, he is far from the least reprehensible Republican, the fact that he briefly behaved like an adult, something that would be unremarkable in most of the world, is no reason to start lionizing him. The soft bigotry of low expectations, to borrow from their phrasebook.
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Nov 22, 2012 06:06
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Chris Christie vetoed gay marriage in New Jersey. gently caress him.
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Nov 22, 2012 08:31
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SombreroAgnew posted:Chris Christie vetoed gay marriage in New Jersey. gently caress him. So then he does plan to run in 2016 then? It seems like if he was only worried about his own re-election then he wouldn't have done that since I believe popular support for gay marriage is up. If he's worried about 2016 like we believe him to be then it makes sense he'd want to check the box that says, "I hosed over gay people." in order to make surviving the primaries easier.
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Nov 22, 2012 09:23
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Sir Tonk posted:I guess if Rand tacks hard towards the RONPAUL crowd it might work, but all the I know a few people who like Rand because of his name (son of Ron Paul, that is), and because he throws them a bone here and there for funding. Ryan couldn't be a Libertarian. Sure economically he fits them, but there's no way he flip-flops on legalizing gay marriage, military funding, and pretty much every other social position the GOP old guard hold dear. Besides that, no one with the slightest bit of a reputation would jump to the Libertarian party strategically. They are irrelevant by default because they are Libertarian. Too economically right for the left, too socially left for the right. Too weird to live, too rare to die. They have about as much a chance of co-opting the Republican party as they do co-opting the Democratic party. Edit: Oh yeah, and gently caress Chris Christie. Don't become an apologist just because he jumped on the Romney is poo poo train before it was cool. That goomba bastard doesn't belong in politics. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Nov 22, 2012 |
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Nov 22, 2012 10:00
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Every Paul fan I know of is pushing Gary Johnson rather than Rand Paul. Anecdotal, I know.
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Nov 22, 2012 16:11
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I really don't see vetoing a same-sex marriage bill as a political deal breaker unless you're running as a Democrat in a primary. While approval for same-sex marriage is trending up, the most common type of support is something like Biden spoke about: they're "comfortable" with it. They probably aren't going to be a huge pro-gay plank of the DNC in 2016 (I'd be extremely surprised if they put support for ENDA in, for example, something Obama has been keeping at arm's length as DADT repeal took affect and same-sex marriage is being fought in the courts and state level politics)
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Nov 22, 2012 16:52
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SombreroAgnew posted:Chris Christie vetoed gay marriage in New Jersey. gently caress him. That's harsh dude. Give the man some time so that he can 'evolve' his gay marriage stance.
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Nov 22, 2012 22:28
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e: Barack Obama campaigned on and called DOMA unconstitutional from the Oval Office in 2009. The Democratic Party platform moved forward on marriage, to match his position, both times he ran for President. The evolution stuff was dumb but it never had a singular effect even slightly equivalent to a veto.notthegoatseguy posted:I really don't see vetoing a same-sex marriage bill as a political deal breaker unless you're running as a Democrat in a primary. While approval for same-sex marriage is trending up, the most common type of support is something like Biden spoke about : they're "comfortable" with it. They probably aren't going to be a huge pro-gay plank of the DNC in 2016 (I'd be extremely surprised if they put support for ENDA in, for example, something Obama has been keeping at arm's length as DADT repeal took affect and same-sex marriage is being fought in the courts and state level politics) UltimoDragonQuest fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Nov 22, 2012 |
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Nov 22, 2012 22:40
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mlmp08 posted:Every Paul fan I know of is pushing Gary Johnson rather than Rand Paul. Anecdotal, I know. I totally forgot to mention this. I saw a bunch of people supporting him this year.
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Nov 23, 2012 01:53
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:e: Barack Obama campaigned on and called DOMA unconstitutional from the Oval Office in 2009. The Democratic Party platform moved forward on marriage, to match his position, both times he ran for President. The evolution stuff was dumb but it never had a singular effect even slightly equivalent to a veto. As you yourself said, it didn't affect a single vote. You aren't going to see a pro-gay plank in 2016, and I don't really see Democratic attacks on REpublicans being anti-gay to be effective unless they fully embrace LGBT equality outside of a couple of carefully picked, popular issues.
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Nov 23, 2012 05:18
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SombreroAgnew posted:Chris Christie vetoed gay marriage in New Jersey. gently caress him. And don't forget why he did it: He'd rather let the voters decide than have it handed down from government. So basically, it's the wussiest way to handle the situation and trying to please both sides. To those against gay marriage, he can say "Yo, I vetoed that law," and to those in favor of it, he can say "I didn't stand in the way, I wanted the voters to have a choice." And then he'll yell at somebody. It's what he does.
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Nov 23, 2012 05:20
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Cemetry Gator posted:And don't forget why he did it: He'd rather let the voters decide than have it handed down from government. Which is to say, the same exact position held by post-evolution Barack Obama? ABC posted:The president stressed that this is a personal position, and that he still supports the concept of states deciding the issue on their own. Adrastus fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Nov 23, 2012 |
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Nov 23, 2012 08:20
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Yeah if people in this thread could stop pretending Christie is a liberal ally and will flip parties entirely on the basis of not being petulant during the storm, that would be nice.
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