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Cichlidae posted:We're not getting something nearly that extensive. If you want a horse-free road, it's going to be 10 miles, tops, and it's going to be in the southeast corner of the state.  Meridian to New Sanctum, if that's southeast enough. If not, Waterbridge to to Nogahyde to Fairport. Or if we're railroading, Fairport to Orangewich to New Cork.
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Nov 25, 2012 04:35
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An Oliver assemblyman proposes the Oliver Motor Parkway based on the newly opened Wide Island Motor Parkway in New Cork. Most of the ROW is on his and his partners land. Landowners who have initially balked have been gently coerced to go along with the plan. The assemblyman wants to eventually connect to central Hartshire to provide a quick commute for himself and his Oliver friends in their new motorcars. In the meantime, the Parkway will dump traffic into the SW Hartshire street grid. No biggie. Also I propose a numbering system to keep track of the State of Nutmeg maintained roads.  Basically its a trunk road system where the main cross-state "trunk" routes get a single digit number, while branch routes get a two-digit number based on the trunk route they originate from. Bypasses, smaller branch routes, and spurs get three-digit numbers based on the branch or trunk route they originate from. A fool-proof system if I say so myself! Ron Pauls Friend fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Nov 25, 2012 |
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Nov 25, 2012 04:42
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Volmarias posted:
Let's turn the South Middleport-New Sanctum turnpike that follows the course of the river into an auto-only road. It'll be a pleasant, scenic drive!
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Nov 25, 2012 04:52
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Ron Pauls Friend posted:Also I propose a numbering system to keep track of the State of Nutmeg maintained roads. Ah ah ah! That comes next decade (and was originally the purpose of this whole game)! We might even go with a color-based system at first, as Connecticut had at one point. By the way, for anyone who missed it, there is already a civilian airport near Fairport. Also, you're much better off building a new road for cars than making an existing one off-limits to horses. If you did that, you'd have to buy every property along the route, since you've just made the vast majority of them uninhabitable.
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Nov 25, 2012 05:06
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Sounds like Manbury-Fairport would be the perfect place to put a brand new motorway, since Nogahyde wouldn't be in the way, along with two roads going to Balkany and New Cork City respectively. Bridgefield-Waterbridge might be good too, I'd like for either road to be made, but both might be excessive by this point. I don't suppose my Waterbridge-Balkany rail line is profitable enough to electrify?
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Nov 25, 2012 05:20
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We still need the civilian aerodrome near Hartshire, across the Fukov near Oliver.
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Nov 25, 2012 15:04
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Yeah, an Airport north of Meridian and south of Hartshire would be best. It would serve that entire large conurbation, have some room to expand and be on flat terrain. It hasn't go a major flooding issue though, right? For the second I'm vacillating between west of West Sanctum near the road to Lemyn (and make sure it has both road and rail access) or just Northwest of New Dublin and south of Norham. I really want New Sanctum to have an airfield but on the other hand it would have a good connection to the one near Hartshire and it would leave the West of the state with non nearby. That said who uses these airfields at the moment anyway? Cichlidae, could you give us a description of the main rail and road lines and what kind of traffic they carry/who uses them? Which line is the most successful of them all?
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Nov 25, 2012 16:05
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SlothfulCobra posted:I don't suppose my Waterbridge-Balkany rail line is profitable enough to electrify? Not right now, no. Munin posted:That said who uses these airfields at the moment anyway? The military airfield is used by the military, obviously. The civilian airfields are for the pioneers of aviation. Air travel and air mail haven't been developed yet. Munin posted:Cichlidae, could you give us a description of the main rail and road lines and what kind of traffic they carry/who uses them? Which line is the most successful of them all? This will require a much more comprehensive post. I can tell you right now that the shore line is the most successful - it's the main way to bring freight up and down the coast. The line is quad-tracked from New Cork to New Sanctum.
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Nov 25, 2012 17:47
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Which city would have the most aversion/contempt to the automobile at this point? Also you didnt yea/nay the Oliver Motor Parkway.
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Nov 25, 2012 19:48
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Ron Pauls Friend posted:Which city would have the most aversion/contempt to the automobile at this point? Most people are pretty neutral toward the whole concept for now. Motorcars mean progress, and I think everyone accepts that. Just don't put them in their backyard. For the parkway, I need other peoples' input. We only get one parkway this decade, and it's a small one, so everyone needs to decide together.
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Nov 25, 2012 20:17
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Cichlidae posted:For the parkway, I need other peoples' input. We only get one parkway this decade, and it's a small one, so everyone needs to decide together. Well the only other parkway built before 1920 was a partial segment of the Bronx River Parkway. That didn't start construction until 1917 and the original section built opened in the early 1920s. Dude's rich guy parkway with no government funding is the only thing really appropriate to this game at this point in time. Also did you know, the original toll for the Long Island Motor Parkway was $2 - which is $51.45 in today's money. Of course the kind of person who could afford to drive a car for fun in 1908 could probably afford that.
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Nov 25, 2012 20:40
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Install Gentoo posted:Well the only other parkway built before 1920 was a partial segment of the Bronx River Parkway. That didn't start construction until 1917 and the original section built opened in the early 1920s. Dude's rich guy parkway with no government funding is the only thing really appropriate to this game at this point in time. This is true, but we have a lot of rich dudes here and I just don't want to go with what the first person says without any regard for other people 
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Nov 25, 2012 21:53
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Would it be possible to split this thread into an ask/tell thread and a fantasy city game thread? I really enjoy the ask/tell portions and it's been hard to follow lately.
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Nov 26, 2012 19:20
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These puny little aircraft that people are all abuzz about nowadays are little more than wasps. Nutmeg needs to invest in the future, Nutmeg needs to invest in Zeppelins. The Nutmeg American Zeppelin Investment Corporation proposes a landing field and docking station in the area between Oliver and Hartshire. We will set up a regular service to all major cities in the United states: New Cork, Chicago, St. Louis, Detroit, and more. In the decades to follow, we may even reach Europe and the Far East.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:11
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Are we close enough to any of the surrounding cities to cover their market with our airfield? My experience with a certain alternate reality leads me to believe an airfield between Hartfield and Summerfield would be profitable, but perhaps New Cork or Salvation are closer than I realized and should also be taken into account when considering projects that could affect a relatively large area's population.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:34
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EngineerJoe posted:Would it be possible to split this thread into an ask/tell thread and a fantasy city game thread? I really enjoy the ask/tell portions and it's been hard to follow lately. If I do, I'd have to restart the game portion; let's just get this one finished. As an aside, my uncle is an engineer named Joe, so seeing your custom title there is a bit shaking. John Dough posted:These puny little aircraft that people are all abuzz about nowadays are little more than wasps. Nutmeg needs to invest in the future, Nutmeg needs to invest in Zeppelins. The Nutmeg American Zeppelin Investment Corporation proposes a landing field and docking station in the area between Oliver and Hartshire. We will set up a regular service to all major cities in the United states: New Cork, Chicago, St. Louis, Detroit, and more. In the decades to follow, we may even reach Europe and the Far East. Now this is an excellent idea. For reference, the aerodromes we're building in this time period basically look like this one: https://www.google.com/maps?ll=41.890186,-72.613363&spn=0.008011,0.016512&t=h&z=17 SurgicalOntologist posted:Are we close enough to any of the surrounding cities to cover their market with our airfield? My experience with a certain alternate reality leads me to believe an airfield between Hartfield and Summerfield would be profitable, but perhaps New Cork or Salvation are closer than I realized and should also be taken into account when considering projects that could affect a relatively large area's population. Summerfield is very close to the border, less than 5 miles in. New Cork is a good 20 miles out, but there are plenty of rich suburbs between there and Fairport. ----- Do any of you like to crunch numbers? Well, of course you do! I've got a big picture-rich post coming up with lots of graphs and observations.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:45
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Let's talk about VOLUMES! I've used a lot of vague and uncertain references throughout this thread when it comes to hourly and directional splits, changes in travel patterns throughout the year, and the effect of gas prices on travel. Today, I grabbed a buttload of volumes - aside from a few outages, every single car passing over one spot on one interstate freeway about ten kilometers from a city. If you're feeling smart, this can be a game for you. Look at the pictures, think about the numbers, and see what conclusions you can draw about the site. Don't read my annotations if you don't want spoilers. And if you'd like to know where it is, click this magical underlined text. Here is the .xlsx file if you're interested in looking at the data yourself: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0ByQzqtNM0WuFZnVtQXhEWmtaUW8  This particular count file contains about 150 thousand individual counts spanning the period from January 1, 2002 to September 30, 2012. Right away, you can see these numbers are in the thousands. Each direction is counted separately. Let's take the average of all Sundays, all Mondays, etc., and it should give us a pretty good picture of the daily traffic flow.  Eastbound...  Westbound...  And both directions, plus the total. First off, let's look at the volume in the peak hour. Do you remember the rule of thumb, "the peak hour volume is 1/10 of the ADT"? It applies moderately well for this road. In each direction, the ADT is around 60k, and the PHV is about 6k. Taken together, the ADT is 120k, and the PHV is about 10k. This tells us that the freeway isn't highly congested - if this were the case, the PHV would be far below 10% of the ADT. These volumes also tell us what size road we're working with. Throughout all of the numbers, the highest one-hour volume ever experienced is 8121. If we're assuming a max volume of 2200 vphpl, this tells us the road must have at least four lanes in each direction. In fact, it has 3 regular lanes, plus one HOV lane. Next, let's look at the overall day-of-the-week trend. Monday-Thursday look superficially the same, while Friday has much higher volumes from 9 am on. Friday's pm peak also begins earlier and lasts much longer than the rest of the week. Consequently, Friday has by far the highest volumes overall. Less apparent is that Monday and Friday morning have smaller peaks than Tuesday-Thursday. Saturday and Sunday are clearly different from the other five days - their peaks are lower and more spread out, and they begin much later (most people get up later on weekends). Volumes drop back down to weekday levels late Sunday night. Now, what can we conclude about the count station based on these figures? First off, you can see that the morning peak hour is mainly westbound, and the evening peak hour is mainly eastbound. This tells us that this site is to the East of a major city. Traffic goes inbound in the morning, and outbound at night. You can see that the pm peak is higher, because there is "background" volume that rises throughout the day. The heavy weekend volumes imply that this is either along a recreational (beach, for example) route, or near a major shopping center. The monthly volumes will show that the latter is true.   Note the scale on the graph; these seasonal variations aren't huge, but they're evident. Lowest volumes occur in the snow season. The Summer gets much higher volumes. If this were a recreational route, leading to a beach or amusement park, we would expect some very high peaks during Summer Vacation. Much higher peaks than we see here. On some routes, volumes double in the Summer. Instead, we have a general high trend, peaking in August and then winding its way back down. This tells us that people make fewer trips (or perhaps shorter trips) when it's cold. Looking at the charts, these monthly variations affect both directions more or less equally. Finally, we're going to look at long-term trends. Unfortunately, there are months-long gaps in some of the year, and coupled with the seasonal variation in volumes, this means it's hard to draw solid conclusions. We'll do what we can.   Comparing this side-by-side with a graph of oil prices is enlightening. Anyway, let's take a look at the graph first (again, note the scale). 2002-2005 is the continuation of a long-term rise in ADT. Typically, from the late-1990s through 2005, volumes rose by about 1%/year. Around 2005, though, that trend reversed. Wikipedia will show you that gas prices, for various reasons, really started to climb about 2005, hitting a sharp peak in the most-traveled months of 2008. This is also where our ADT graph bottoms out. There's been a bit of a rebound since, and even though gas prices are close to where they were in 2008, the volumes are moderately higher. That 2012 volume is going to drop, though: it only includes January-September, and leaves out the leaner months afterward. I expect it to be similar to 2011's numbers. An overall yearly ADT is helpful, but there's more to the story. Let's look at the colorful chart to pick out some more details. First off, I'd like to point out how 2008 really stands out. Though the ADTs in other years varied, the overall hourly trends stayed about the same. 2008 (and, to a lesser extent, 2004-2005 and 2011-2012) is where the whole pattern changes. First off, look at how much the peak hours dropped. In the morning, the 7 am volume dropped from 5095 to 4764 - much larger, proportionally, than the overall decrease in volume. A similar trend happens at 5 pm, where the volume dropped from 5366 to 4948. What's happened to these peaks is that they've been lowered from the historic baseline, and also spread out: 6 am volumes are higher in 2008 than in either of the two preceding years. This is a result of people carpooling, or leaving early to beat the traffic and burn less gas. The volumes stay low throughout the day, not just during the peak hours. Look at the overnight volumes: 2008 has the lowest volumes of any year between 8 am and 2 am. That's 18 hours of the day when 2008 was (often by far) the slowest year in a 10-year span. This shows the decrease in discretionary trips, whether from combining with other trips, carpooling, or cutting them out altogether. I hope this has been enlightening! It's certainly been long.
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Nov 26, 2012 23:55
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Cichlidae posted:
Is there any significance to how the weekends are nice and smooth sine waves (and nearly perfect reflections between both directions) while the weekdays are all herky-jerky, or is that just the nature of rush hours?
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Nov 27, 2012 04:26
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dupersaurus posted:Is there any significance to how the weekends are nice and smooth sine waves (and nearly perfect reflections between both directions) while the weekdays are all herky-jerky, or is that just the nature of rush hours? That's how peak hours work. You can see a lot of interesting stuff: the weekdays are essentially a smaller version of the weekend curve (discretionary trips), plus two directional peaks. You can also see how the am peak is sharper than the pm peak (after all, it's more important to get to work on time than to leave on time). These are averages of ~500 weeks, so I'm very confident in the numbers, and how closely Tuesday-Thursday match is really a reflection of that regularity.
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Nov 27, 2012 13:18
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John Dough posted:These puny little aircraft that people are all abuzz about nowadays are little more than wasps. Nutmeg needs to invest in the future, Nutmeg needs to invest in Zeppelins. The Nutmeg American Zeppelin Investment Corporation proposes a landing field and docking station in the area between Oliver and Hartshire. We will set up a regular service to all major cities in the United states: New Cork, Chicago, St. Louis, Detroit, and more. In the decades to follow, we may even reach Europe and the Far East. You could actually set up a docking point in Hartshire itself. Given a suitable building they don't take that much space. That said for general maintenance and cargo work a suitable field outside the city would be needed as well.
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Nov 27, 2012 13:23
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I am currently doing my thesis and its about a city to an existing part outside Istanbul turkey, the situation is on the western side of the project area there is a slum neighborhood that will get demolished and my area is a triangular shaped area, surrounded by a secondary road with a bus lane on the left side of the triangle. On the bottom of the triangle you have a main road that conducts to the city center, so I was wondering what would be the ideal scenario in order to create road division on this blank area? I am aiming for an area that has the minimum car roads and lots of bicycle lanes for internal traffic. The area is aproximately 74 hectares. Any advices?
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Nov 27, 2012 21:05
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Mongmonghi posted:I am currently doing my thesis and its about a city to an existing part outside Istanbul turkey, the situation is on the western side of the project area there is a slum neighborhood that will get demolished and my area is a triangular shaped area, surrounded by a secondary road with a bus lane on the left side of the triangle. Do you have a general sketch I can go on?
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Nov 27, 2012 22:47
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Cichlidae posted:Let's talk about VOLUMES! This was super interesting. Where did you get the 8121 number? Didn't see it on your sheet. Also, what about job loss and the economy? Furthermore, my dad always told me that freeways get more congested here in LA when school starts up. Does this hold in less seasonal routes? If so, does this mean that the seasonal effect on that freeway is actually quite high because it offsets the dropoff you'd expect to see when kids aren't in school?
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Nov 27, 2012 22:58
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I like the traffic volumes post. One thing that struck me is how early the evening peak is. I thought work generally ended at 5pm or later? What kind of occupations does the earlier traffic consist of? I take it this site is about half an hour to an hour out from most destinations?
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Nov 27, 2012 22:59
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A lot of people I know work 8 to 4. Exactly 9 to 5 seems rarer and rarer, it's silly for everyone to start and stop work at the same time. A lot of huge office buildings stagger times as well to avoid over-loading the lifts.
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Nov 27, 2012 23:02
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Mandalay posted:This was super interesting. Where did you get the 8121 number? Didn't see it on your sheet. 8121 is from the base data; if you download the spreadsheet, it's in the first tab. The unemployment rate graph doesn't seem to have a good correlation with the volumes, believe it or not. The school year has a weird effect on things. On a freeway like this, it might create a sharper am peak and an earlier pm peak, but it's not a huge difference. On a local road near a school or a bus depot, there is a major effect, and this has been one of our problems with the Oakwood Ave grade crossing on the Busway. Munin posted:I like the traffic volumes post. One thing that struck me is how early the evening peak is. I thought work generally ended at 5pm or later? What kind of occupations does the earlier traffic consist of? It's about 10 minutes East of Hartford, but it's also in a heavily commercial area itself. We generally consider the pm peak to last from 3-6, and 4-5 is usually the worst hour. ----- Now for some fun stuff. After tallying up the votes, we've got a couple additions to the map:  An aerodrome south of Hartshire, complete with dirigible mooring.  A rail line reborn  A rail line electrified (New Cork - New Sanctum - Hartshire) And here is what remains to be determined! Vote now or forever hold your peace. New bridge - Middleport/Meridian, or Deep Bend? Second aerodrome - Near New Sanctum, near New Dublin, or near West Sanctum? Parkway - Oliver-Hartshire, Middleport-New Sanctum, Manbury-Fairport (sneaky!), or Bridgefield-Waterbridge? You can feel free to suggest some new options, but I'd like to make a decision soon.
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Nov 27, 2012 23:38
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How would you redesign this interchange? It was a victim of big dig related budget cuts and cancelled highways inside of 128. Make sure you fully zoom in to understand how bad the merges are. As an example, 128S to 3N doesn't have a dedicated lane AND it has to deal with a major weaving issue on the C/D. http://goo.gl/maps/Hyc6t
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Nov 27, 2012 23:58
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Kahta posted:How would you redesign this interchange? It was a victim of big dig related budget cuts and cancelled highways inside of 128. Make sure you fully zoom in to understand how bad the merges are. That's not too hard.  Red is one lane, orange is two lanes, yellow is main line. Good luck getting MassDOT to pony up the cash for it, though. Getting rid of awful cloverleafs and pseudo-cloverleafs seems to be their lowest priority. If the weaves are still problematic, stick a basketweave in there instead. You'll need to buy up property, though.
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Nov 28, 2012 00:12
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Why not move the exit 32B location to a stub of route 3 that would terminate on middlesex turnpike?
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Nov 28, 2012 00:37
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Kahta posted:Why not move the exit 32B location to a stub of route 3 that would terminate on middlesex turnpike? Would cost more money and require more structures, but there's really no reason it couldn't be done. I was trying to re-use as much of the existing infrastructure as possible.
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Nov 28, 2012 01:21
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Not to mention that it used to be a lot worse (it literally was just a cloverleaf with missing movements). This IS their solution; they have no intent to ever replace this interchange.Cichlidae posted:Would cost more money and require more structures, but there's really no reason it couldn't be done. I was trying to re-use as much of the existing infrastructure as possible. The c/d roads and the close proximity of the two interchanges is a major source of backups / accidents. Eliminating (most of) exit 32 would do a lot to eliminating congestion. kefkafloyd fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Nov 28, 2012 |
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Nov 28, 2012 03:40
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kefkafloyd posted:Not to mention that it used to be a lot worse (it literally was just a cloverleaf with missing movements). This IS their solution; they have no intent to ever replace this interchange. Well hey, if there's no opposition from the corporations on the 'pike, and you can get the land, and it's not environmentally sensitive, and you have the cash for it...  Even opens up land for development.
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Nov 28, 2012 04:09
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The state still owns the ROW and surrounding area extending about half a mile past the interchange. It would just need to buy up a little more adjacent land to do that. The real issue would be that a new stack there would cost many millions of dollars and would completely destroy 128>3 traffic for a few years while it was being built. A man can dream, though. A man can dream... 
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Nov 28, 2012 05:00
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Cichlidae posted:Well hey, if there's no opposition from the corporations on the 'pike, and you can get the land, and it's not environmentally sensitive, and you have the cash for it... That looks like a hundred million dollar project to me. (I have no idea)
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Nov 28, 2012 21:04
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Mandalay posted:That looks like a hundred million dollar project to me. (I have no idea) Yeah, something around that order of magnitude. When you consider all the temporary roadways you need to build to keep traffic flowing during construction, as well as the cost of the structures (4-level stack), I'd guess somewhere from 80-200M.
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Nov 28, 2012 22:43
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The I-93/95 interchange in Canton is going to cost $235 million. (Page 22) http://www.ctps.org/bostonmpo/3_programs/1_transportation_plan/plan/2035_LRTP_Chapter8_9.11.pdf
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Nov 29, 2012 00:28
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If only they could build nearly the entire thing off-site, and rapidly install the new pavement in sections, instead of laboriously, slowly, manually constructing the entire thing on-site. 
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Nov 29, 2012 06:13
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Chaos Motor posted:If only they could build nearly the entire thing off-site, and rapidly install the new pavement in sections, instead of laboriously, slowly, manually constructing the entire thing on-site. The critical path for that sort of project is almost always substructure work. Laying down pavement is cheap and easy compared to excavation, preloading, pouring footings/driving piles, and building up piers.
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Nov 29, 2012 13:18
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Cichlidae posted:New bridge - Middleport/Meridian, or Deep Bend? To get back on track, New bridge: Deep bend. I'm not really sure what's going on with this town. Its position and confluence of roadways actually makes it a nice hub for transferring, but there's nothing going EAST out of it. Having a road across the river may change up its fortunes a little, at least as the sheer volume of travel gives it a boost to the travel/service industry. Second aerodrome: New Dublin. West Nutmeg could really use this more than yet another boon to the Sanctum area. Parkway: Middleport-New Sanctum 
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Nov 29, 2012 13:26
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Volmarias posted:To get back on track, Oops, I thought I had posted. Anyway I think this man speaks sense. As an aside, if the sanctum rail bridge hasn't been enabled/converted for road use we should definitely do so. Having only one working bridge in that city is most likely a nightmare.
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Nov 29, 2012 14:34
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