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All right, I'm lost. Today's comic is a reference to the previous chapter in which Annie says that Ysgerin told her about Jones. But I can't find where Ysgerin told Annie about Jones.
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Nov 26, 2012 16:14
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| # ? May 9, 2024 23:29 |
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:All right, I'm lost. Today's comic is a reference to the previous chapter in which Annie says that Ysgerin told her about Jones. But I can't find where Ysgerin told Annie about Jones.
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Nov 26, 2012 16:20
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The Kins posted:It was "off-camera" while spending the summer in the forest between "Fire Spike" and "From The Forest She Came". More specifically, she mentions it on this page: http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=851
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Nov 26, 2012 16:46
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Putting the stars in the sky is likely one of the great many stories humanity has told about Coyote, these stories are what made Coyote exist. Coyote's existence is thus proof that the stories told about him are real. So yes Coyote put the stars in the sky, even though the drat things where there all along.
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Nov 26, 2012 19:36
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Or is it more that he honestly believes he put the stars in the sky because he was created from those stories?
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Nov 26, 2012 19:41
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Or before Coyote put the stars in the sky, it was just filled with billions of gigantic balls of gas undergoing nuclear fusion.
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Nov 26, 2012 19:52
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Zemyla posted:On an odd note, does Jones have a belly button? I can't imagine why she would, other than looking more human. It kinda looks like she has one here although its hard to tell. Since Tom covered up the relevant bits, I'd assume Jones is, uh, fully human in appearance. Now lets stop thinking about that.
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Nov 26, 2012 20:13
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Smelly posted:Or is it more that he honestly believes he put the stars in the sky because he was created from those stories? Not really any effective difference between the one thing and the other. The stories were told, Coyote is real, thus he put the stars in the sky. I'd bet there are a large number of gods running around who created humanity as well.
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Nov 26, 2012 20:24
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Or, the past is defined by what people believe it to be just as much as Coyote is. All the creation myths are true, and none of them are true, all at the same time. Jones exists because humans just cannot conceieve of a time when there were no humans. It's like trying to think about the complete oblivion that comes after death, the mind just rebels against it. And because humans cannot believe in a time before humans, humans have always existed in the form of Jones. Or I could be completely wrong, but it does neatly explain why a human-shaped thing has been around for millions of years longer than actual humans have.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:24
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Mr. Vile posted:Or, the past is defined by what people believe it to be just as much as Coyote is. All the creation myths are true, and none of them are true, all at the same time. To extrapolate this even further in regards to the rest of your post, all these explanations about what Jones is are true, simultaneously.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:37
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pseudorandom name posted:Or before Coyote put the stars in the sky, it was just filled with billions of gigantic balls of gas undergoing nuclear fusion. I'm going with this one.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:40
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UberJew posted:I'M GOING WITH THIS ONE. That sounds more like it.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:43
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Prison Warden posted:To extrapolate this even further in regards to the rest of your post, all these explanations about what Jones is are true, simultaneously. That would explain why Jones claims she has no idea what she is. "Oh, you want to know what I am? Ok, well there's this internet forum where people talk about comics and try to work out what...uh. You know what, never mind."
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Nov 26, 2012 22:44
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I, too, like the 'Coyote defined the Stars in a mythological sense.' It satisfies him putting the stars in the sky as far as his creators are concerned, naming constellations and such, but allows for the scientific notion of stars being there long before life crawled from the seas. I'm almost positive this is where the comic will go.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:47
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UberJew posted:I'm going with this one. WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF YOU HADN'T SAVED HIM? "Yes! The sun would have risen just the same, yes?" NO "Oh, come on. You can't expect me to believe that. It's an astronomical fact." THE SUN WOULD NOT HAVE RISEN. ... "Really? Then what would have happened, pray?" A MERE BALL OF FLAMING GAS WOULD HAVE ILLUMINATED THE WORLD.
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Nov 26, 2012 22:48
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See also: Pyramids, The Last Continent, possibly Small Gods
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Nov 26, 2012 23:29
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pseudorandom name posted:WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF YOU HADN'T SAVED HIM? The sun would have risen but it wouldn't have been the same.
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Nov 26, 2012 23:39
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My favourite thing about Coyote's "Great Secret" is the increasingly clear implication that he tells it to anyone he meets at the first possible opportunity.
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Nov 26, 2012 23:48
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That's the real reason why Ysengrin was so pissed when he started telling it to Annie. He doesn't actually think it's heretical, he's just sick to loving death of hearing it.
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Nov 26, 2012 23:55
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Mr. Vile posted:Or, the past is defined by what people believe it to be just as much as Coyote is. All the creation myths are true, and none of them are true, all at the same time. I think there's more to it than that. Let's accept Coyote's story at face value. When humans die, their thoughts become part of the ether and the ether shapes the world. Now, billions of humans have died and all these humans have different ways of looking at the world. And in those humans, especially those who died in the last few centuries, are those who believe that there's no such thing as mysticism, that a set of logical, natural laws govern all things. Part of that is that those laws have always and forever governed all things. How would that belief be expressed? Is it implausible to say through a being who learns by observation, emotionlessly, and who has no mystical power except an eternal existence? edit: A succinct way to put it would be: Jones is an etheric expression of a logical, empirical system of belief about the nature of the universe. edit: This kind of theory makes Coyote's assertion that the Court is "man's endeavour to become God" pretty drat scary when you think about it. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 02:50
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Nettle Soup posted:The sun would have risen but it wouldn't have been the same. For a staunch atheist he really does write alot about the power of faith and belief.
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Nov 27, 2012 05:55
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Jones isn't a god, unless she is lying, and the beliefs of humans don't retroactively effect the past. This is easy to figure out, most beliefs about gods place those gods as existing all of the way back to creation, yet according to Jones, they did not.
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Nov 27, 2012 06:03
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There is a literal scientific history, and there is a belief-based etheric history, which is actually many different things that all contradict each other and themselves.
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Nov 27, 2012 06:05
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:For a staunch atheist he really does write alot about the power of faith and belief. Well, understanding the power of belief is a lot different than actually believing.
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Nov 27, 2012 07:08
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:For a staunch atheist he really does write alot about the power of faith and belief. Part of the appeal of a setting with clearly defined gods is you get to speculate about stuff that's ambiguous in real life. It's pretty fun, I don't blame him.
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Nov 27, 2012 07:42
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:For a staunch atheist he really does write alot about the power of faith and belief. I can't tell whether you're joking or not. It's called "fantasy" for a reason.
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Nov 27, 2012 07:47
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:For a staunch atheist he really does write alot about the power of faith and belief.
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Nov 27, 2012 08:37
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Apropos of nothing, what's the name of the mental disorder/condition where a person thinks his or her art/work is never good enough? We've talked about it in the thread before, and no, we don't need to discuss it further, I just need the name of the condition.
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Nov 27, 2012 09:02
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...being an artist?
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Nov 27, 2012 09:14
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Isn't the opposite Dunning Kruger? Also I finally got off my rear end and ordered all the books...had to go on ebay for volume 2 since it is stupid rare for no apparent reason, at least compared to 1 and 3. Brightman fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 09:19
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:For a staunch atheist he really does write alot about the power of faith and belief. These subjects are a lot more interesting to staunch atheists than theists. Think about it.
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Nov 27, 2012 10:22
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Brightman posted:Isn't the opposite Dunning Kruger? The opposite of Dunning-Kruger is Dunning-Kruger. It covers both sides of it.
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Nov 27, 2012 13:30
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Osmosisch posted:These subjects are a lot more interesting to staunch atheists than theists. Think about it. The problem is that many theists, quite simply, don't think about it. It's much healthier and beneficial to think things through than simply accept what we're told. Tom is demonstrating that extremely well in this narrative. Also, Cthulhuchan's response to Dodgeball is just about perfect, and pretty quotable. BlueInkAlchemist fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 13:55
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Freudian posted:The opposite of Dunning-Kruger is Dunning-Kruger. It covers both sides of it. Oh, well I guess that might be the answer then. I think I just see it used so much more in regards to incompetence, with Impostor Syndrome being brought up more for competent people who don't believe that they are. However in regards to artists Cthulhuchan is dead on in my experience.
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Nov 27, 2012 15:56
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Brightman posted:Oh, well I guess that might be the answer then. I think I just see it used so much more in regards to incompetence, with Impostor Syndrome being brought up more for competent people who don't believe that they are. And of course, just like D-K, the opposite of a person who thinks their art is never good enough is also called an artist.
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Nov 27, 2012 16:31
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Dodgeball posted:Apropos of nothing, what's the name of the mental disorder/condition where a person thinks his or her art/work is never good enough? You may be thinking of Impostor Syndrome.
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Nov 27, 2012 16:34
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POINDEXTRE posted:You may be thinking of Impostor Syndrome. I thought it was called "being a grad student"
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Nov 27, 2012 18:06
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Oh gently caress me, the volume 2 book I bought on eBay just got refunded...and there's a sold out notice in my inbox...poo poo. Maybe I'll try looking for it locally while I just wait for it to pop up on Topatoco.
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Nov 27, 2012 20:34
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The Kins posted:It was "off-camera" while spending the summer in the forest between "Fire Spike" and "From The Forest She Came". Really? I mean, I guess it doesn't matter so much now that we know Jones' secret, but I can't help at feel annoyed that Annie was using something that was told to her "off-camera" (and mentioned only once in passing) to debate coyote. It lessens the sense of connection if the protagonist we've been following obtains secret knowledge they're not sharing with the reader partway through a story.
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Nov 27, 2012 20:39
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NecroMonster posted:Jones isn't a god, unless she is lying, and the beliefs of humans don't retroactively effect the past. Yes, this is pretty easy: Jones experienced the early history of the earth without gods. Once there were humans around, the gods always existed. These aren't mutually exclusive and it doesn't have to mean that the past was rewritten either. The way i understand it is that gods are all about the narrative, and their narrative is true for them. Think back to when Coyote plucked the moon from the sky for Annie, that was a really great example how i think the reality of the story works.
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Nov 27, 2012 21:21
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