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 you were in my class. Who are you? I was the chick with the trippy green/purple shades that got her bike switched. I always got stuck behind the super tall guy on the yamaha who was going slow. Also, I think I'm the one that dropped the bike on my second figure 8.Oh, and re: last page's discussion, I'll be getting a used GS500 and I intend to learn bike wrenching. I'll let ya know, Z3n! M42 fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 01:43
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Awesome! Welcome to the slippery slope. Burning money kicks rear end.
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Nov 27, 2012 02:00
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Z3n posted:I'd say that the important thing actually isn't never riding like a dong, but knowing the appropriate places to ride like a dong. That is a good way to look at it. Riding like a dong (occasionally) is too fun to pass up but there is definitely a time and a place. It's easy to be too hard on yourself when reading all the safety advice on CA. I am generally very safe but have caught myself in dong mode when I briefly took my mind off safety mode. I'll now evaluate if I am in the right time and place. If I am not, I need to choose to keep things in check. Like most things in life, loosen up and enjoy it but don't hurt yourself is good advice. 
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Nov 27, 2012 02:17
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Z3n posted:I've got about the same number of female friends that ride, but most of them work on their own bikes. One of them does maintenance for her male friends too...maybe she'll chime in Friend chiming in here. Though I haven't done anything major since changing tires (which was a fun mess). I should emphasize that I have been underneath a car since before I could read. My father is a mechanic and I have always had almost every tool at my disposal. I grew up learning these skills. I do agree that if anyone (regardless of gender) wants to learn how to do their own work, they can. It all comes down to time and motivation. Before I could drive there were simple things that I was required to learn before driving my own car. This included pumping my own gas, changing the air and oil filter (and oil) and knowing how to change a tire. I feel like these skills are basic knowledge everyone should have before driving any vehicle. Often people drive around not understanding how their vehicle works. The more you know about how the engine functions the easier it is to maneuver. This is especially important when riding a motorcycle (ask me about how I should have been in the ER at least twice this year). Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:I think this is a great attitude to encourage, but as a mechanic myself I'd like to make it clear that no one has to know how to work on their bike to ride one. I agree that no one should have to know how to work on their own bike but it helps a lot. I also would not advise a complete project bike for a first time rider. (Although I know many people who went with a project as their first bike). I worked on bikes two years before I got my own. I definitely went with a mostly put together bike (only needed new tires, idle adjustment and an oil change). I would rather spend my time riding than having to put together a bike before having fun. M42 posted:Oh, and re: last page's discussion, I'll be getting a used GS500 and I intend to learn bike wrenching. I'll let ya know, Z3n! Congrats on passing the class! I'm so glad you're getting a used bike as your first bike. New bikes for first time riders are useless since a large percentage of people end up dropping them. Z3n is a great teacher and has almost every project possible going on all the time.
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Nov 27, 2012 02:20
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As I said before, it's just about the motivation to learn.
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M42 posted:
Whaaaaat no way. I was the lanky asian dude in the brown leather jacket. If you're talking about the tall black dude who rides a scooter (was the yamaha white?), good god he drove me insane to watch. He'd talk about "CC's" all day and then proceed to stare 5 feet directly in front of him while traveling all of 2 feet an hour no matter how wildly the coaches waved their arms to get him to speed up.  Oh man I remember what just drove me nuts about the scooter guy. Coaches kept having to tell him to put on his gloves or strap up his chinstrap, and then one time I noticed he wasn't strapped up again, so I reminded him. At which point he made the excuse that it was because he "had trouble with it" because he "couldn't see it."  Anyway I'm being too harsh, and I'm by NO MEANS saying I'm better than most of the people in the class-- it's exactly the fact that I don't trust myself at this level (only 10 hours on a bike total), yet will come out of this with a license, that sorta worries me. Shrug. Z3n posted:Stalling a lot is totally normal. I was in the same boat when I started, and stalled a bunch too. The nice thing about bikes is you can really burn the clutch without doing harm thanks to it being a wet clutch, so it's not a big deal to use the clutch a lot, like it would be in a car. Shifting will get more natural time, just remember to keep your eyes up and you're good. Awesome, thanks for the feedback. My friend lives in the south bay so it'll be a minute before I can get back down to look at the bike and figure out exactly what it is (he has no clue whatsoever).
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Nov 27, 2012 02:46
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yellowjournalism posted:Anyway I'm being too harsh, and I'm by NO MEANS saying I'm better than most of the people in the class-- it's exactly the fact that I don't trust myself at this level (only 10 hours on a bike total), yet will come out of this with a license, that sorta worries me. Shrug. The whole licensing process in North America creeps me out. In Ontario, you literally don't need to demonstrate any motorcycle skills at all to get a license -- you go into the MOT after you turn 16, fill out a 40 question test, and if you get 32 right you can ride away on your new Panigale or whatever totally legally as long as you don't take it on the controlled-access highways or ride at night. (Well, and if you can find someone who'll insure a superbike for a 16 year old with no experience). Eventually you have to actually demonstrate some skills if you want to keep that license, at which point they punt you up to the unrestricted version, but you're good to go for at least a year. In my case, because I took the MSF course and passed, I was able to go directly to the unrestricted license with nothing more than the aforementioned 10 hours on a bike and the written test at the MOT. Also crazy. On the other hand, one province over in Quebec you have to spend your whole first year riding with another person as a chaperone (following you on their own motorcycle). Not sure if that's too far in the other direction but it does seem safer than the Ontario way.
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Nov 27, 2012 02:58
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Sagebrush posted:On the other hand, one province over in Quebec you have to spend your whole first year riding with another person as a chaperone (following you on their own motorcycle). Not sure if that's too far in the other direction but it does seem safer than the Ontario way. That seems... incredibly inconvenient. Do you need to prove you were riding that whole year, or can you get the license, sit on it for a year, and then start riding normally? It's annoying because I fall into this category, but in Japan you can't take a pillion your first year on normal roads, or your first three years on expressways, which is probably in everyone's best interests. Well, I'm kinda iffy on the expressways thing, but still. Surprisingly there's no beginner's mark for motorcycles like they have for cars, so I guess you have to get pulled over (or into an accident) to get caught...
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Nov 27, 2012 06:04
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Pompous Rhombus posted:That seems... incredibly inconvenient. Do you need to prove you were riding that whole year, or can you get the license, sit on it for a year, and then start riding normally? The SAAQ (DMV equivalent, not to be confused with the SAQ, the province-owned liquor stores) website has this to say: quote:learners must first pass a knowledge test in order to get a class 6R learner's licence, which is valid only for the purposes of a driving course and for the SAAQ closed track road test; So basically you do the written test to get a heavily restricted license that literally only lets you do the MSF course. Then when you pass the MSF, you get your probationary license, and have to hold it for another 11 months before you can do an exit test, during which time you have to be accompanied by someone else on their own motorcycle. I didn't find what qualifies as "accompanying" or anything like that, but I didn't look very hard either. I don't see anything that says you have to actually be riding the whole time, but it is quite possible that you need to rack up a certain number of miles. In Ontario when you go for your full car license, you have to tell them how many times you've been on the highways in the previous 3 months, and if it's not enough they reschedule and tell you to come back when you have more experience. Obviously you can lie but I don't think that hurts anyone but yourself. Incidentally, PQ also has three classes of license based on displacement (125, 400, anything), just like Europe. I personally am glad that I didn't have to go through the whole chaperoning process, but everything else about the PQ licensing system seems safe and sane to me. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Nov 27, 2012 |
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Nov 27, 2012 06:35
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yellowjournalism posted:Whaaaaat no way. I was the lanky asian dude in the brown leather jacket. If you're talking about the tall black dude who rides a scooter (was the yamaha white?), good god he drove me insane to watch. He'd talk about "CC's" all day and then proceed to stare 5 feet directly in front of him while traveling all of 2 feet an hour no matter how wildly the coaches waved their arms to get him to speed up. Haha, that's crazy. Small world! Yeah I meant the yamaha guy. He was really the only person I watched during the figure 8 and the entire time even I was thinking "Turn your head dude, turn your head. Turn it!! Aaaaaaaaagh" But yeah, I mean everyone's a beginner and nobody truly struck me as some idiot squid who was gonna go out and buy a literbike right after the MSF. Hopefully everybody's got enough sense to be careful, I know I will. Arcane posted:Congrats on passing the class! I'm so glad you're getting a used bike as your first bike. New bikes for first time riders are useless since a large percentage of people end up dropping them. Z3n is a great teacher and has almost every project possible going on all the time.  I've never considered getting a brand new bike for a first. There's plenty of people that keep theirs in great shape, so I know that as long as I'm patient something perfect for me is bound to come up.
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Nov 27, 2012 23:59
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When I took MSF I remember the coaches commenting that the 270 degree turn in the test was a right hander because most people have more problems turning right than left (a right handed thing?). I have noticed this is true for me but usually only at higher speeds. A left hander feels more natural than a right hander. I live around a lot of one way streets so I don't believe it's a right vs left apex thing for me. Anyone else notice this? Any tips on how to overcome that?
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Dec 5, 2012 07:25
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It's definitely universal, most people I talk to feel the same way. The only way I've been able to answer why is that right handers are always tighter turns than left handers when driving on the right side of the road. There's not too much you can do about that obviously. Maybe try to take a later apex on right handers? There's lots of bonuses to doing this on the street anyway and it won't make the corner seem so tight. I guess an easy way to test my theory is asking any Wrong Side Drivers here if they are the same or opposite?
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Dec 5, 2012 07:41
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nsaP posted:Maybe try to take a later apex on right handers? There's lots of bonuses to doing this on the street anyway and it won't make the corner seem so tight. This. I definitely found my riding improving when I started turning in later and seeking a later apex through right turns.
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Dec 5, 2012 14:08
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I notice it the most at speed. Specifically there is an on ramp that has a left and right sweeper entrance. I am noticeably less comfortable during the right sweeper portion. I do fine on it but I'd like to not think about it as I consciously try to not tense up so then I automatically tense up. =/
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Dec 5, 2012 19:05
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Throttle is on the right side too, so most people have difficulty giving a steering input without giving a throttle input too.
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Dec 5, 2012 19:22
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Oh maaaan, I did that constantly in the MSF. Does that stop with experience? I had to keep my clutch in a little so I wouldn't rocket off every time I turned right.
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Dec 5, 2012 19:44
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M42 posted:Oh maaaan, I did that constantly in the MSF. Does that stop with experience? I had to keep my clutch in a little so I wouldn't rocket off every time I turned right. Yeah, it's a muscle memory thing. Practice practice practice.
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Dec 5, 2012 19:46
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M42 posted:Oh maaaan, I did that constantly in the MSF. Does that stop with experience? I had to keep my clutch in a little so I wouldn't rocket off every time I turned right. Yeah it goes away. I have only been riding for 2 years and I still sometimes do it, especially with new gloves that are thick (like my new winter gauntlets) since I dont have as much finger feel and control.
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Dec 5, 2012 21:03
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Stugazi posted:I notice it the most at speed. Specifically there is an on ramp that has a left and right sweeper entrance. I am noticeably less comfortable during the right sweeper portion. Could be like z3n said. I'd think if things like on ramps still bother you, you just need time and experience. Highway on ramps and connecting ramps are the most fun I can have around here without hitting the backroads. They just repaved this one and it's great, I hit about 45 or 50 before turning onto it, hold around 80 thru the left hander then end up braking from nearly three digits thru the right to merge into traffic. Good visibility of the merging traffic helps too. http://goo.gl/maps/oZ0mD That 180 is pretty good too, tho it has a split halfway thru and goes a bit off camber. ed: http://goo.gl/maps/RWdLS Oh yeah this one too. The on ramp parallels the highway with plenty of room to get up to speed, then banks off right before coming back to connect, leaving some green space in the middle. I'm sure there's a reason for it, like storing equipment during repair work, but to me it looks like they just made a 2 turn race course. nsaP fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Dec 6, 2012 |
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Dec 6, 2012 05:50
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I signed up to take the BRC on Feb 13 & 14, woot! I've been looking at buying a motorcycle for years but I've never ridden one, I figure this is the best way to get onto one. I'm really looking forward to the course, and blew through this thread pretty quick. I think I've got a pretty good handle on what to expect, hopefully I can put it into actual practice. Fun times!
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Jan 30, 2013 03:35
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Hey grats on taking your first step towards transforming your daily commute into a non-insulated experience. I had to drive to work for the first time since switching back to being on a bike over half a year ago (a co-worker needed a ride) for 4 days last week and boy was it miserable.
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Jan 30, 2013 18:53
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Well, I did it. Passed and had a ton of fun, now I'm more antsy than ever to get a bike. Its like loving crack! They had all of us on Suzuki GZ250s, which all seemed in really good shape. Day one was sunny and warm, had no issues at all with the exercises and even did the U turn box pretty well. We only had one person who didn't seem ready for it. She had never driven a manual and was constantly stalling, and because of that would get flustered and wandered all over the course. Thankfully the rest of us were paying attention to her. Nobody dropped their bike though. Day 2 was no sun, soaking rain and cool all day which kind of sucked but I figured was good experience. Somehow, I completely lost the ability to make the U turn that day. Just couldn't make that first turn, but was able to keep it inside the box on the 2nd turn. We had two incidents on day 2. One person dropped her bike, her boot got caught on the gear lever during one of the quick stop drills. No injury and she got right back to it after they looked over the bike. The other incident I didn't see happen but one woman (the staller) got clipped by the other woman (bike dropper) and got knocked over. I forget which drill this was during, but it all happened behind me so I saw none of it except the aftermath. It took staller girl a bit longer to get back on the bike, but she did. For the skills eval, I wound up losing points for my U turn being out of the box and not stopping fast enough. I was a little shy on jamming the brakes in the wet. Overall I had a ton of fun and would definitely recommend the MTII course to anyone. I had never been on a bike before this, but most of my concerns had been addressed after taking the course. Now, I just got to buy a bike!
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Feb 16, 2013 20:13
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Welcome, friend.
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Feb 16, 2013 22:22
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One of us! One of us!
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Feb 16, 2013 22:26
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I did the Advanced Rider Course on Friday. I am glad I did it but I wouldn't ever do it again. While I did come away with a few new skills I was not impressed. It was very much a continuation of BRC while I expected it to deal with challenging scenarios like off camber turns, wet riding or uphill starts etc. I recommend everyone do both courses. The BRC is mandatory IMHO, but the ARC is only worth it if you have the time, money and patience.
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Feb 18, 2013 06:14
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Most people say that about the experienced msf course. Those same people say the advanced riding clinic from total control is much better. That's the one I'll be taking this year. No insurance perk... but I will probably actually learn something.
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Feb 18, 2013 14:53
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Yay, passed my BRC, no points apparently, Not sure how that happened because I know I got a penalty, didn't downshift on the emergency stop, I thought I'd done it but apparently I didn't because I downshifted after I'd stopped, right next to the instructor. Of course the only time I failed to do that was the test, none of the previous emergency stops. Nobody dropped their bike, everyone passed. I think I was the only person to get 100% on the written test, not sure how anyone can not get 100%. It was really cool, but exhausting. I think I have a good idea about what I need to improve.
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Mar 31, 2013 22:38
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M42 posted:Anyway, unfortunately it's gonna be quite a while till I can get my own bike, but when I do I fully intend to spend like 6 months loving around in parking lots. Definitely not confident enough to even start side streets yet. I said the exact same things. I took my test on a Saturday/Sunday. Monday I went and got my license endorsement. Tuesday I bought a SV650S. Wednesday I said "well, I'll just ride it up to the gas station real quick!". Thursday I took it to work and back and my 30 minute ride home turned into 2 hours because BIKE BIKE BIKE BIKE BIKE!! By Friday I was already on the highway. The bike, it will call to you like it does all of us. RIDE. RIDE OFTEN.
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Apr 1, 2013 13:45
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Almost teaching season here, it's still in the low 30's in the morning and the road salt is thick and heavy. I'm actually praying for rain over the next few days so the weekend is clear. If this year shapes up like the previous years, none of the bikes will have had an oil change, none of them will have stabil or any of the like in the gas tanks. None of them will be charged and at least 4 of the 14 bikes will have completely flat batteries that I will need to charge right before class because we have 14 bikes and there'll be 12 riders. April 20th I'm going through the MSF's trike course, I'll try and get a report up on how it goes. As no one actually owns a trike I'm on pins and needles wondering what they'll bring. (in the past to teacher demos and courses they've brought a selection of Can-Am Spiders.)
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Apr 2, 2013 01:43
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I'm 2/3 of the way through the basic rider course now and my instructor has been full of some awesome wisdom. Here is some of what he has been teaching us: A student asks if the instructor uses a full or 3/4 helmet. His response, "I only use a half helmet. I would never use a full face helmet, I just wouldn't be able to enjoy it. But that is my CHOICE. Some riders up in Pennsylvania use a novelty or no helmet, that is their CHOICE." He has lost half his bottom teeth in the one crash he was ever in. On front/rear brakes: "Front brakes are 70% of stopping forcr, rear are 30. But, if you are on a go fast motorcycle you might want to be careful with that. If you use the full 70% with the front you might do a six o'clock. That's when the rear comes straight up. If you keep everything straight you might be ok, but get a little bit off line and you'll have an unauthorized discharge." On locking up the brakes: "If you lock the front let off then re-engage. For the rear do the same thing. The book says to keep them locked but that's just for our test because if you let off and re-engage there you will go too far. In the real world don't keep them locked." "I ride a Goldwing. A Hyabusi (not Hyabusa) might beat me off the line but I've got him beat at the top end. I promise you I'll beat him once we're on the highway." I started to try to ask about the locking the rear brakes thing but he pretty much just insisted the book was wrong.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:01
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It sounds like he's a bit of a weirdo with odd opinions (no surprises there), but I don't think any of that is explicitly *wrong* other than the Hayabusa vs. Gold Wing thing.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:04
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No, nothing explicitly wrong, but I feel like for a class that should focus on safety for beginners maybe he should be erring on that side of things? And is the book really wrong about high sides occurring if you let off the rear brake after locking it? Another I just remembered: "If you're on the highway and your bike is anything less than a 750 and a semi drives past you - See Ya! (as he waves bye with his hand). You'll be gone."
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Apr 21, 2013 02:13
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You want to let up on the rear and apply it again, but only if the back wheel is in line (or close to it) with the front.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:17
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Actually that's something I'm kind of confused about too. From my understanding a highside occurs when the wheels go out of line with the bike's motion, and then the wheels suddenly start gripping the road again, and the wheels suddenly "pushing" the bike in a vector the bike isn't currently traveling are what throws the whole bike out of balance. This most often happens when you're making a tight turn and accelerating out too hard while leaned over, and the combination of the cornering forces and drive forces overwhelm the tire and it breaks loose and spins up. The rider panics and chops the throttle, the decreased drive force allows the tire to slow until it grips again, but now it's off-angle and away you go. Right? But having experienced some unpleasant squirmyness myself while braking in a turn (stupid, I was really new), I think that you could theoretically get a highside if you came into a turn and locked the rear wheel instead of spinning it up, then re-engaged it while you were off center. Same fundamental dynamic problem, different way of starting it. So, while you shouldn't really be braking hard in a turn in the first place, I would think that in that situation yes you should keep the wheel locked until you're upright. Cause if you let off while you're at that angle, you'll still highside. Right? However, locking the rear while you're going straight is no big deal, and you can stop quicker if you modulate the brake than if you just skid, so in that case you *should* let off and re-engage it more carefully. But only when you're going straight. Also right? Like, I think I get the gist of this but it's something that I've always been a little shaky on. e: nsap makes a succinct rule. do I have the general sense of the dynamics right or am I talking out my rear end again? Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 21, 2013 02:31
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Sagebrush posted:Actually that's something I'm kind of confused about too. From my understanding a highside occurs when the wheels go out of line with the bike's motion, and then the wheels suddenly start gripping the road again, and the wheels suddenly "pushing" the bike in a vector the bike isn't currently traveling are what throws the whole bike out of balance. This most often happens when you're making a tight turn and accelerating out too hard while leaned over, and the combination of the cornering forces and drive forces overwhelm the tire and it breaks loose and spins up. The rider panics and chops the throttle, the decreased drive force allows the tire to slow until it grips again, but now it's off-angle and away you go. Right? Sounds right to me.
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Apr 21, 2013 05:59
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You can highside with the rear brake but it doesn't come back in line as aggressively when its not on the power, just locked and regaining.
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Apr 21, 2013 08:20
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When the rear is locked and dragging, it can be pushed side to side but the drag will make it want to stay behind you. It is inherently stable. When you're spinning the tire on the throttle, it wants to outrun the rest of the bike, and the only way to do that is to come around the side. It is inherently unstable. So a throttle slide can get the wheel out a lot further, and the further out it gets before regaining traction, the harder it snaps back once it does. It's the force vector perpendicular to the wheel rotation, not the parallel one, that is suddenly restored, that jerks the bike, and can hurl the rider.
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Apr 21, 2013 08:58
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The drive of the engine hp is what causes the really violent snap that puts riders into orbit. You can definitely still highside off the rear brake but it doesn't have the violence that a power on highside does.
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Apr 21, 2013 09:11
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The correct course of action would be to keep steady on the throttle and slide it back over? Or is that some supermoto black magic poo poo
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Apr 21, 2013 15:34
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Welp, my class of 12 had a 100% failure rate. Apparently Maryland changed how the MSF can test for this year and requires them to have identical tests, both written and practical, as the MVA. Unfortunately, a couple of the test exercises aren't practiced in the regular MSF course, and the instructors can only read the provided cue cards. If a student asked for any kind of explication or explanation all they could do was re-read the card. Luckily we can re-test for free next week. Since after failing it once and being told what we did wrong, we now actually know what we were supposed to do, maybe a couple of us will pass next time.
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Apr 21, 2013 23:26
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What? Why didn't your MSF coaches alter their curriculum to include what was actually on the test? Was there one specific part that everyone failed on?
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Apr 22, 2013 00:04
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