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Baron Bifford posted:It doesn't matter anyway. Dredd and Anderson wiped out the gang by themselves, and they didn't need to interrogate Kay to do that because Ma-Ma decided to come gunning for him, giving them all the pretext they needed. Ma-Ma came gunning for Dredd and Anderson because if she killed Dredd and Anderson there wouldn't be anyone to take Kay in and thus her empire wouldn't fall. It's a long-shot, but the alternative is that she let's them take someone who would roll on her and cause the Judges to come back specifically for her instead of just investigating Dredd and Anderson's deaths.
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Nov 28, 2012 04:14
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Baron Bifford posted:Revenge for the deaths of their friends and loved ones? Wanting to have the crazy rear end bitch out of their lives? How spineless do you think human beings are? A cursory glance at any portion of human history indicates that a great many people, when their backs are to the wall, are in fact pretty goddamn spineless. Most people in the block who lost loved ones would be cowed easily because they could be next; the few who try to act out get made examples of before they can go to "proper" authorities or try to exact their own vengeance--incredibly foolhardy when facing an organized gang.
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Nov 28, 2012 04:36
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it's pretty simple you guys. Baron Bifford isn't concerned about motivations or circumstances because he Is The Law
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Nov 28, 2012 05:16
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Showing stuff that happens in real life disqualifies Dredd as a satire because
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Nov 28, 2012 06:04
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Meaty Ore posted:A cursory glance at any portion of human history indicates that a great many people, when their backs are to the wall, are in fact pretty goddamn spineless. Most people in the block who lost loved ones would be cowed easily because they could be next; the few who try to act out get made examples of before they can go to "proper" authorities or try to exact their own vengeance--incredibly foolhardy when facing an organized gang. Dan Didio posted:Ma-Ma came gunning for Dredd and Anderson because if she killed Dredd and Anderson there wouldn't be anyone to take Kay in and thus her empire wouldn't fall. There's this telling interview where Lena Heady discusses her character: “I think of her like an old great white shark who is just waiting for someone bigger and stronger to show up and kill her,” Headey said. “She’s ready for it. In fact, she can’t wait for it to happen. And yet no one can get the job done. She’s an addict, so she’s dead in that way, but that last knock just hasn’t come. This big, fat, scarred shark moving through the sea and everyone flees and she’s like, ‘Will someone just have the balls to do it? Please?‘” Ma-Ma realizes she's finished when the Judges arrest Kay. If Kay rats on her, she's finished. She has no way of discretely silencing Kay and keeping her operation under wraps, so she doesn't bother trying. She decides that rather wait for the Judges to come execute her like a punk or haul her off to the iso-cubes, she's going to go down in glorious battle, making her name legend. I think this is why she seems strangely pleased as she falls down the atrium to her death. It's a good death. Edit: when Anderson is brought before Ma-Ma, Ma-Ma warns them not to rape or torture Anderson so that they can properly set up their deaths in a way that the Judges won't link to her. It seems like a weak plan but it does suggest she seriously thought she could dodge this. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Nov 28, 2012 |
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Nov 28, 2012 08:39
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I really want this movie to be out on Blu-Ray already. And I don't even own a blu-ray player.
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Nov 28, 2012 08:53
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Baron Bifford posted:If Ma-Ma murders two Judges, then Hall of Justice will tear the place apart looking for evidence, and they will find plenty of it. Even if nobody is willing to talk (unlikely, given what Ma-Ma put them through), the truth can be forced. What exactly are you basing this on? The very existence of Judges (plus Dredds line about only adressing 6% of all crimes) shows that the Hall of Justice isn't exactly doing close investigations on anything when there's an easy explanation. Ma-Ma could just throw their corpses out the front door together with a few dead gangers and pass it off as a shootout with some small-timers. But she wouldn't even need to do that, because she has the corrupt Judges to concoct an 'official' story that won't be questioned.
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Nov 28, 2012 10:07
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Perestroika posted:What exactly are you basing this on? The very existence of Judges (plus Dredds line about only adressing 6% of all crimes) shows that the Hall of Justice isn't exactly doing close investigations on anything when there's an easy explanation. Ma-Ma could just throw their corpses out the front door together with a few dead gangers and pass it off as a shootout with some small-timers. But she wouldn't even need to do that, because she has the corrupt Judges to concoct an 'official' story that won't be questioned. Yeah. Sure Ma-Ma's plan to take out the Judges was risky, but it was either that or wait for them to return in force and execute her. She was backed into a corner. Kill or be killed. ruddiger posted:I really want this movie to be out on Blu-Ray already. Yes, I need to watch this again. Why isn't it out for Christmas? Fucksake.
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Nov 28, 2012 10:16
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Perestroika posted:What exactly are you basing this on? The very existence of Judges (plus Dredds line about only adressing 6% of all crimes) shows that the Hall of Justice isn't exactly doing close investigations on anything when there's an easy explanation. Ma-Ma could just throw their corpses out the front door together with a few dead gangers and pass it off as a shootout with some small-timers. But she wouldn't even need to do that, because she has the corrupt Judges to concoct an 'official' story that won't be questioned. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Nov 28, 2012 |
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Nov 28, 2012 10:36
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Baron Bifford posted:When it comes to dead Judges, the 6% statistic doesn't matter. All police departments in the world will rescind other priorities to investigate and avenge the deaths of their own. They will investigate the matter thoroughly and not accept things at face value. They won't dismiss it lazily like they would, say, a dead hooker in an alley. I don't know where you're getting this, because the entire movie seems to suggest that yeah, they completely would. Ma Ma has judges on her payroll. Is it a big leap from "she can literally pay three judges to kill other judges and cover it up" to "she can make a dead-end case get closed due to lack of evidence"? The Judges in this movie are working against the odds (which is why they're judges and executioners in the first place, rather than just cops) and sometimes they get killed. That's just life in Megacity.
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Nov 28, 2012 10:50
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Shanty posted:I don't know where you're getting this, because the entire movie seems to suggest that yeah, they completely would. Ma Ma has judges on her payroll. Is it a big leap from "she can literally pay three judges to kill other judges and cover it up" to "she can make a dead-end case get closed due to lack of evidence"?
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Nov 28, 2012 10:55
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I agree that mama probably had something of a latent death wish, I don't see how that makes it "the most ludicrous aspect of the movie" though. Surely that just makes her actions consistent with her character? I really don't get what you're arguing with this.
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Nov 28, 2012 11:09
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Ma-Ma is willing to pay the corrupt Judges millions to cover it up for her, if she's got a death wish and wants to go out gloriously, it's not reflected in the film. She goes out of her way to constantly cover up the actions going on in Peach Trees, if she wanted a glorious battle, she could have just left the place opened up and not initiated the security lockdown.
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Nov 28, 2012 11:13
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Baron Bifford posted:You might have a point. I'm "getting this" from what I know of real world police departments, but maybe the fictional world of Mega-City 1 works differently. My God, do you think? I thought Dredd was a documentary.
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Nov 28, 2012 11:17
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Baron Bifford posted:You might have a point. I'm "getting this" from what I know of real world police departments, but maybe the fictional world of Mega-City 1 works differently. Ma-Ma and the corrupt Judges all seriously thought they could murder Dredd and cover it up. Well I'm sure the judges would come out in force for a Judge-killing (I think it's even mentioned by Dredd at one point that it's harshly punished, at least), but it's also been established in the film that Peach Trees is a goddamn warzone, and that Ma Ma is in total control out there. It's important to the film that she has this kind of power, because it legitimises her as opposition to the judges. The Megacity One scenario would be ludicrous (and, again, toothless as satire) if the judges were just completely unstoppable and unreasonable.
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Nov 28, 2012 11:18
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Dan Didio posted:Ma-Ma is willing to pay the corrupt Judges millions to cover it up for her, if she's got a death wish and wants to go out gloriously, it's not reflected in the film. Its not going out gloriously if you don't actually try to put up a good fight. Its not an inconsistent interpretation of the character and her placidness when shes finally beaten. What I don't get is why Baron Bifford seems to be arguing that the block war was an illogical action for a character who's all about inflicting terror and single minded brutality. I mean yeah, maybe the Judges are gonna take her down eventually, and it wasn't subtle or long term thinking on Mamas part, but so?
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Nov 28, 2012 11:24
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massive spider posted:Its not going out gloriously if you don't actually try to put up a good fight. Its not an inconsistent interpretation of the character and her placidness when shes finally beaten. There's a difference between someone who's been in the game a long time knowing when their time is up and someone assuming their time is up and deciding to go out like a Viking.
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Nov 28, 2012 12:10
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jabby posted:The residents have nothing to gain by going to the Judges. Even if they did, they have no evidence to present. Once more: the Judges are horribly over-stretched and cannot send in armies on the word of some resident. In the movie, two guys stroll up half an hour later and knock on the door, then stand around impotently when they're told they can't come in. The movie's Justice Department is far less powerful than its print equivalent. (Which would make an interesting shift if they ever do the Democracy sequel; would a less omnipotent Justice Department be even more desperate to retain what power it has in the face of a popular uprising?)
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Nov 28, 2012 13:49
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I just wish this dvd was out before Christmas so I can buy it for gifts for everyone.
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Nov 28, 2012 14:02
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Baron Bifford posted:When it comes to dead Judges, the 6% statistic doesn't matter. All police departments in the world will rescind other priorities to investigate and avenge the deaths of their own. They will investigate the matter thoroughly and not accept things at face value. They won't dismiss it lazily like they would, say, a dead hooker in an alley. Baron Bifford posted:You might have a point. I'm "getting this" from what I know of real world police departments, but maybe the fictional world of Mega-City 1 works differently. Ma-Ma and the corrupt Judges all seriously thought they could murder Dredd and cover it up. Yeah, you don't know as much about how the police work as you think you do. Cover-ups of the murders or attempted murders of police officers have been well documented in the past. Not to mention the fact that the entire plot point you're harping on is utterly unimportant in the context of the film itself. massive spider posted:Its not going out gloriously if you don't actually try to put up a good fight. Its not an inconsistent interpretation of the character and her placidness when shes finally beaten. Because he's scrabbling for ways to keep disagreeing since every other point he's tried to make has been shot down. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Nov 28, 2012 |
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Nov 28, 2012 14:49
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Baron Bifford posted:You might have a point. I'm "getting this" from what I know of real world police departments, but maybe the fictional world of Mega-City 1 works differently. Holy poo poo. I can't believe this is something someone would actually have trouble figuring out.
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Nov 28, 2012 16:43
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Baron Bifford posted:You might have a point. I'm "getting this" from what I know of real world police departments, but maybe the fictional world of Mega-City 1 works differently. Ma-Ma and the corrupt Judges all seriously thought they could murder Dredd and cover it up. Gosh golly, I sure am glad murders never get covered up by the police or go unsovled!
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Nov 29, 2012 00:37
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So, the DVD should be coming on January 14, 2013. Only way for me to see it since they didn't bother to even show it in my country.
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Nov 29, 2012 16:44
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Hogo Fogo posted:So, the DVD should be coming on January 14, 2013. Only way for me to see it since they didn't bother to even show it in my country. I really want to know what kind of extra's they are gong to have on the DVD/Blue Ray, commentaries with the actor/screen writers should be pretty fun.
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Nov 29, 2012 21:51
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BexGu posted:I really want to know what kind of extra's they are gong to have on the DVD/Blue Ray, commentaries with the actor/screen writers should be pretty fun. Ask, and ye shall receive: http://2000ad.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/dredd-blu-ray-details-announced/ quote:Dredd Blu-ray and DVD Extras It's still subject to change so they could add more.
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Nov 29, 2012 23:14
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As lovely as people think the first movie was, I still love the line where Dredd is telling Rob Schneider's character that he could have jumped out the window. Then Rob says something about it being too high up, and Dredd responds, "True, but it's legal!"
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Nov 30, 2012 00:29
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blackguy32 posted:As lovely as people think the first movie was, I still love the line where Dredd is telling Rob Schneider's character that he could have jumped out the window. Then Rob says something about it being too high up, and Dredd responds, "True, but it's legal!" I liked the old movie, but then I like cheesy movies. It wasn't exactly dark and gritty, but it had its moments. Personally I liked Dredd teaching ethics to rookies at the academy. Thing with the first movie is it played Dredd as an extremely tough cop in a harsh but relatively normal place, rather than an excellent foot soldier of a fascist police-state. Personally I would love to see outside Peach Trees in the new Dredd universe. Are all Judges as cold as him? Or is he still exceptional? jabby fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Nov 30, 2012 |
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Nov 30, 2012 00:46
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blackguy32 posted:As lovely as people think the first movie was, I still love the line where Dredd is telling Rob Schneider's character that he could have jumped out the window. Then Rob says something about it being too high up, and Dredd responds, "True, but it's legal!" Dredd in the comics has busted two jumpers that I can think of, 'Sorry citizen, I can't let you do it, you might land on someone' and 'attempted littering'  There was a good 1-parter where he saves a drug-addicted new mother from jumping when her baby is born addicted and *doesn't* book her; I was kinda surprised, was nice to see him being less stony for once.
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Nov 30, 2012 02:22
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Suicide was originally illegal, so Dredd would put himself at considerable risk to arrest would-be (or actual) jumpers. At some point the law was changed; this being Mega-City One, mass suicides became an organised sport. There was a reference in one strip to the "Busby Berkeley block-leap championship." 
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Nov 30, 2012 11:08
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Payndz posted:Suicide was originally illegal, so Dredd would put himself at considerable risk to arrest would-be (or actual) jumpers. At some point the law was changed; this being Mega-City One, mass suicides became an organised sport. There was a reference in one strip to the "Busby Berkeley block-leap championship." Wasn't A Wreckless Disregard for Gravity and its sequel inspired by this with its protesters/fans and such?
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Dec 1, 2012 02:45
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blackguy32 posted:As lovely as people think the first movie was, I still love the line where Dredd is telling Rob Schneider's character that he could have jumped out the window. Then Rob says something about it being too high up, and Dredd responds, "True, but it's legal!" The old movie was weird because the individual scenes often work and there was a lot of effort put into the acting and the visuals, but the scenes don't flow together into an intelligent movie. You can actually find quite a few scenes IIRC that are fitting to the character and well acted.
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Dec 2, 2012 05:13
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NovemberMike posted:The old movie was weird because the individual scenes often work and there was a lot of effort put into the acting and the visuals, but the scenes don't flow together into an intelligent movie. You can actually find quite a few scenes IIRC that are fitting to the character and well acted. Yeah, I agree. I was watching a scene earlier where the Judge council is trying to decide what to do about the growing population. It is pretty funny to hear them say to have more executions for lesser crimes to keep the population in check.
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Dec 2, 2012 05:30
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I also find myself skipping portions of the movie if i "rewatch it". I still find it drat entertaining in parts but as a whole it really isnt a great movie. Demolition man managed to pull off the cheesy action scifi movie a heap better.
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Dec 2, 2012 06:25
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How many more weeks until this is out on Blu Ray? I really want to see it again 
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Dec 2, 2012 10:54
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:How many more weeks until this is out on Blu Ray? I really want to see it again January 14, according to someone a few posts ago. So six weeks. Oh god that's such a long time!  Also I'll need a blu-ray player and a 3DTV.
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Dec 2, 2012 13:41
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There was a John Wagner story where Judge Dredd has to save his niece from a vengeful criminal, and decides that the best way to protect her is to sever all contact. He was generally guilt-ridden over the whole thing and shows he's not so cold-blooded.
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Dec 15, 2012 17:50
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Baron Bifford posted:There was a John Wagner story where Judge Dredd has to save his niece from a vengeful criminal, and decides that the best way to protect her is to sever all contact. He was generally guilt-ridden over the whole thing and shows he's not so cold-blooded. There's another story where Dredd authorises expensive medical treatment for a young girl who was severely injured while he was pursuing a perp, and beats the ever-loving poo poo out of another Judge when he's told he's overstepped his bounds. It's all leading up to the start of the Democracy storyline that ran for several years, and Dredd beginning to doubt the system and his place in it.
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Dec 15, 2012 22:46
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How are the Batman and Dredd matchups? We got the collections in at work and I was looking through them and saw Dredd and Batman fighting and Dredd going "you're just getting more years!" everytime Batman punches him, also Joker on Judge Death's team.
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Dec 16, 2012 04:56
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twistedmentat posted:How are the Batman and Dredd matchups? We got the collections in at work and I was looking through them and saw Dredd and Batman fighting and Dredd going "you're just getting more years!" everytime Batman punches him, also Joker on Judge Death's team. They're played for laughs and like most such team-ups, are not canon to either side. Judgement on Gotham is a hoot, though, and Steve Bisley did a fine job on the artwork. The others are a case of diminishing returns.
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Dec 16, 2012 11:15
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Jedit posted:They're played for laughs and like most such team-ups, are not canon to either side. That's not true. Every single Judge Dredd cross-over is 'canon' to Judge Dredd. Those things actually happened and those Batman crossovers had some reasonably major plot points for Dredd's universe in them.
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Dec 16, 2012 11:40
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