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Are you getting the Wii U? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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9031 | 65.25% |
| No |
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1191 | 8.60% |
| Maybe |
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808 | 5.84% |
| I'm an idiot |
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460 | 3.32% |
| Waluigi |
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1603 | 11.58% |
| Waa |
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748 | 5.40% |
| Total: | 13841 votes | ||
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Bombadilillo posted:Can you explain what those ramblings and numbers mean? It's mostly clock speeds and other specs on the Wii U hardware; Starbuck is a coined term (to fit the theme + pun on Scarlet) to refer to the Wii U's security processor, which regulates signed/unsigned code and is the primary obstacle to homebrew. Looks to be vulnerable. Furthermore, BootMii is a mod for Wii that lets you run a bootloader before the Wii's OS, and which requires either Gamecube controllers or a Reset button to control; the Wii U has neither.
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Nov 29, 2012 15:40
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greatn posted:I have one of my monitors at work do that for better document reading, while the other one stays landscape for better coding in programs where I have multiple toolbars open. How small are your monitors? A 24" can display two pages at native size in landscape mode.
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Nov 29, 2012 15:41
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Miyamotos RGB NES posted:Nintendo really is confusing as hell, though. I still can't figure out what I need for Xenoblade Chronicles. I have the original classic controller for the Wii (the one without the long handles) and I also have the new Pro controller for the Wii U, and I have no clue if both or neither of those can be used with the drat game. I agree that there are way too many controller options/combinations, but doesn't every game list on the box which controllers are supported? The copy of Xenoblade I bought a few days ago certainly does.
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Nov 29, 2012 15:45
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Zuph posted:I agree that there are way too many controller options/combinations, but doesn't every game list on the box which controllers are supported? The copy of Xenoblade I bought a few days ago certainly does. It does, yes. Unless you never owned a Wii, there's really no excuse for being confused as to what controllers work for something, and even then your rule of thumb is a simple as "It's a Wii game, you can't use Wii U poo poo with it."
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Nov 29, 2012 15:46
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SenseLess posted:Here are some interesting tidbits about the Wii U hardware from Hector Martin's twitter: I'm trying not to get excited, but this makes me excited.  I realize it doesn't actually say much yet.
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Nov 29, 2012 15:47
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Katana Gomai posted:How small are your monitors? A 24" can display two pages at native size in landscape mode. About 19". I like verticality for documents though.
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Nov 29, 2012 15:48
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Dunno if its been discussed but Nintendo Network accounts DO transfer. Nintendo just sent me a brand new Wii U. I typed in my info and it went "Sure" Only odd thing about redownloading is it thought everything was still on the console. Literally asked me "This is already on your console, want are you sure you want to redownload" and that was that.
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Nov 29, 2012 16:03
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I guess the idea is, then, that accounts can only be associated with a single console at a time. And the unassociation process can only be done by the big N.
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Nov 29, 2012 16:21
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SenseLess posted:Here are some interesting tidbits about the Wii U hardware from Hector Martin's twitter: So it's a triple-core 1.2GHz processor? Wow, that is weak, compared to the 360's triple-core 3GHz processor.
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Nov 29, 2012 16:23
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Am I the only one who doesn't care about Wii U specs and processor speeds? Why would anyone buy a Wii U if that's what they are concerned with when Nintendo clearly has no intentions on on being the highest end console at any given time?
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Nov 29, 2012 16:35
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Isn't the Ouya a 1.2 Ghz tri core processor?
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Nov 29, 2012 16:45
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katkillad2 posted:Am I the only one who doesn't care about Wii U specs and processor speeds? Why would anyone buy a Wii U if that's what they are concerned with when Nintendo clearly has no intentions on on being the highest end console at any given time? eeeehhhhh. Thats only true as of recently. The SNES, N64, and Gamecube and all be argued that Nintendo was trying to be cutting edge. But it doesn't really matter. We've pretty much seen that big budget, graphically oozing games don't really mean much any more and have actually been harmful to companies. Plus I think most people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. Thats why I buy them at least.
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Nov 29, 2012 16:45
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Plus I think most people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. Thats why I buy them at least. Totally, I agree. But I also buy Nintendo consoles for the second party games, and the games that get made exclusive to the console. I don't want to see all that limited because the system still can't keep up with an XBox 360.
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Nov 29, 2012 16:55
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katkillad2 posted:Am I the only one who doesn't care about Wii U specs and processor speeds? Why would anyone buy a Wii U if that's what they are concerned with when Nintendo clearly has no intentions on on being the highest end console at any given time? I think it's a double-edged sword. Considering the launch games, either developers rushed their games/ports without proper polish, or the WiiU has some serious CPU limitations. When you account how slow the CPU cores are and how it sounds like the OS requires its own separate memory cache, placing those limitations right out of the gate will only discourage 3rd parties from developing games for it since they'll have to spend extra time scaling the hardware to run the software smoothly. We've already heard some developers complain about the speed of CPU and it seems there's some truth to it, which is a shame. Like all things Nintendo hardware, I bet it came down to a balancing act of console efficiency, cost and size. The console plus the gamepad probably isn't cheap to manufacture and the console itself is, all things considered, pretty small and sounds to be an energy efficient machine. It's entirely possible Nintendo wanted to beef up the WiiU a bit more but ran into ROI issues and/or ventilation issues but that's just speculation. It also probably comes down to Nintendo NOT wanting to take a huge initial loss on the console like they did with the 3DS. Who knows.
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Nov 29, 2012 17:00
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katkillad2 posted:Am I the only one who doesn't care about Wii U specs and processor speeds? Why would anyone buy a Wii U if that's what they are concerned with when Nintendo clearly has no intentions on on being the highest end console at any given time? waffle fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Nov 29, 2012 |
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Nov 29, 2012 17:02
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katkillad2 posted:Am I the only one who doesn't care about Wii U specs and processor speeds? Why would anyone buy a Wii U if that's what they are concerned with when Nintendo clearly has no intentions on on being the highest end console at any given time? Why would you take a Tesla when for nearly the same price you could be happy with a Toyota? I mean, it's not like Toyota wants it to be as high end, it drives on all the same roads, you shouldn't expect it to be as good as a Tesla! The difference, of course, is that those two cars don't cost nearly the same and aren't billed as being in the same league. People care about specs because the Wii U is a $300-350 next generation video game console. Except that it really isn't, but you're expected to believe that it's worth the money and belief that it will be a viable gaming machine for the next seven-ish years. We don't know what the next PS or Xbox can do, but that side of the argument really doesn't matter when people aren't getting a next-gen experience on a next-gen machine. People should really stop being surprised when others see the internals of the Wii U and reply with a "meh."
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Nov 29, 2012 17:02
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Except if we continue to run with the car analogy maybe it's kind of like the transition of most western families from a one-car to a two-car existence. You have your sporty car (your 720 or PS4) and your minivan with the bells and whistles for the kids (your WiiU). I mean let's be honest - all the folks that are upset about what's under the WiiU's hood are unlikely to be the type of person that will proceed into the next generation as single console owners. I think it's far more likely that enthusiasts will pass on buying a 720 AND PS4 (given that cutting edge exclusives for those machines will be cost inefficient for developers), and instead adopt a model like the above.
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Nov 29, 2012 17:07
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I don't think the problem is so much that it's weak than it is about Nintendo lying, and continuing to lie, that it isn't.
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Nov 29, 2012 17:14
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Soul Glo posted:Why would you take a Tesla when for nearly the same price you could be happy with a Toyota? I mean, it's not like Toyota wants it to be as high end, it drives on all the same roads, you shouldn't expect it to be as good as a Tesla! Wow, and here I thought I was having a blast with my new console! Thank you Soul Glo for informing me that I'm not really getting a "next-gen experience".
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Nov 29, 2012 17:16
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For those who care, a famous hacker posted his findings on wiiU cpu clock speedHector Martin posted:Wii U codenames worth knowing: system Cafe, CPU Espresso, GPU/SoC/etc. Latte, ARM secure processor Starbuck (we made that one up).
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Nov 29, 2012 17:17
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Why does every argument on this website have to turn into a terrible car analogy? Who even needs an analogy to discuss console specs for fucks sake.VanillaGorilla posted:I mean let's be honest - all the folks that are upset about what's under the WiiU's hood are unlikely to be the type of person that will proceed into the next generation as single console owners. Maybe those folks will "proceed into the next generation" as not-WiiU-owners because the specs are poo poo. If the console is barely on the level of the current gen (or even behind it), the success of it will once again be determined by whether or not everyone's grandma buys one. I don't blame Nintendo for that, they had enourmous success with the Wii, but from sales experience during the Wii era, a lot of people didn't buy one because of how badly it compared to the other consoles. It's not far-fetched to assume the same thing will happen again. Legdiian posted:Wow, and here I thought I was having a blast with my new console! Thank you Soul Glo for informing me that I'm not really getting a "next-gen experience". I want to quote this because it gets lost in these arguments a lot, no one can tell someone else what to enjoy. I'm looking forward to getting the WiiU tomorrow but by all that we've seen so far it's going to be the Wii2 and will be outmatched severely by the next gen. That doesn't mean it can't be fun. Katana Gomai fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Nov 29, 2012 |
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Nov 29, 2012 17:18
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Oh good, I was afraid those wouldn't be posted because they already were and we've been talking about them for a page.
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Nov 29, 2012 17:19
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It'd be great if the Wii U could be considered a viable system to port all of the modern games. Sure, I have my 360 for Battlefield, but maybe I'd like to play it on my Wii U for the cool new gamepad feature. The next Battlefield will most likely come to Wii U, but with this processor, how can they make a port that can perform to task with other versions?Legdiian posted:Wow, and here I thought I was having a blast with my new console! Thank you Soul Glo for informing me that I'm not really getting a "next-gen experience". I'm enjoying my Wii U too. My concern is that its potential is lessened by a weaker CPU. Honest Thief posted:For those who care, a famous hacker posted his findings on wiiU cpu clock speed Thanks for the heads up 
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Nov 29, 2012 17:20
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Louisgod posted:placing those limitations right out of the gate will only discourage 3rd parties from developing games for it since they'll have to spend extra time scaling the hardware to run the software smoothly. We've already heard some developers complain about the speed of CPU and it seems there's some truth to it, which is a shame. I would prefer that the industry solve this kind of problem through the creation game engines which allow developers to scale their games far more easily. Let's be honest. We just want good games on the platform, but everyone also likes things to be inexpensive and there is a very large market out there for a cheap game console even if it makes some graphical sacrifices (to a point). Sure, we all also want games to look as amazing as possible in an ideal world but the fact is that if we want that then we need to be expected to pay more for it. What would be nice is if the engines removed a hefty chunk of the burden on developers and allowed them to port and scale games much more easily in a cost effective manner. That is what I am hoping for from UE4 but regardless of the facts, theories, and controversy surrounding that specific engine the point is that is what I want period from any engine. I want that to be the standard going forward for the entire industry. Everyone would benefit from this. Not just Nintendo and their fans.
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Nov 29, 2012 17:27
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Bombadilillo posted:Can you explain what those ramblings and numbers mean? Basically it's tri-core and has a really kick-rear end gpu. The gpu is actually a gpgpu so while the cpu is nothing "amazing" the big point is the gpu can now offload a lot of taxing processes cpus normally had to do. On top of this the Wii U has a lot of edram which is used to push stuff through the processors. Because of how it's all laid out it may seem like a slow turd but in reality due to how it's all configured it can still process far larger chunks of data per cycle than the Wii could and likely the 360. Edit: it's kind of like comparing the 360 to the ps3 - you can't. The processor architecture on all these systems greatly differs. They all have different implementations and optimizations to make things run more efficiently. For example 360 was created mostly as a powerpc-driven "pc" for lack of a better way to put it without going full nerd. It was made with the idea that DirectX "just works" on whatever you target and it shows late in the game. Compare a PS3 optimized game to 360 and you'll notice just how bad it runs on 360 in comparison. PS3 has virtualized cpus to run tasks more parallel over the 360 but the sdk was god-awful and understanding of the architecture was extremely hard to grasp until late in the game. Depending on how the SDK works on the Wii U the same could be said, although if indie devs are able to write games that work exceptionally well (Trine 2) then I would say the SDK is pretty fleshed out and easy to use. flyboi fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Nov 29, 2012 |
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Nov 29, 2012 17:30
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Legdiian posted:Wow, and here I thought I was having a blast with my new console! Thank you Soul Glo for informing me that I'm not really getting a "next-gen experience". I'm so sorry I mentioned you by name and described your personal experience with your toy. Oh wait, I didn't do that at all. Stop taking personal offense when people disagree with you about your new plastic thing  .It's wild to me that people cannot separate their subjective fun from how something is seen by the general public/media. E: And I'm not even saying that you can't have fun with it. I have fun with NES games, but those aren't next-gen games. The question I was responding to was why we cared about specs. The reason is because the Wii U is a new video game console, and most consumers expect a new video game console to clearly outperform, or have the potential to outperform, machines released seven years or so ago. And the Wii U doesn't. That's literally my only point. I'm going to buy a Wii U once the holidays are over and I have money, but I'll do so knowing that I will have more technologically pleasing experiences on my pc or even PS3. That's just the reality of the console. Soul Glo fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Nov 29, 2012 |
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Nov 29, 2012 17:34
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flyboi posted:Basically it's tri-core and has a really kick-rear end gpu. The gpu is actually a gpgpu so while the cpu is nothing "amazing" the big point is the gpu can now offload a lot of taxing processes cpus normally had to do. On top of this the Wii U has a lot of edram which is used to push stuff through the processors. Because of how it's all laid out it may seem like a slow turd but in reality due to how it's all configured it can still process far larger chunks of data per cycle than the Wii could and likely the 360. This is a really helpful summary. Thank you. I hope others take the time to read it over.
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Nov 29, 2012 17:41
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flyboi posted:Basically it's tri-core and has a really kick-rear end gpu. The gpu is actually a gpgpu so while the cpu is nothing "amazing" the big point is the gpu can now offload a lot of taxing processes cpus normally had to do. On top of this the Wii U has a lot of edram which is used to push stuff through the processors. Because of how it's all laid out it may seem like a slow turd but in reality due to how it's all configured it can still process far larger chunks of data per cycle than the Wii could and likely the 360. Thank you for this post. Even though I dont really care about Nintendo's graphics/hardware (I only owned a wii last generation and will probably only own a wiiu) this puts this URRGGG HARDWARE thing into perspective. Unfortunately people who hate Nintendo will overlook this  E: Put this in the OP somewhere maybe?
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Nov 29, 2012 17:42
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flyboi posted:Basically it's tri-core and has a really kick-rear end gpu. The gpu is actually a gpgpu so while the cpu is nothing "amazing" the big point is the gpu can now offload a lot of taxing processes cpus normally had to do. On top of this the Wii U has a lot of edram which is used to push stuff through the processors. Because of how it's all laid out it may seem like a slow turd but in reality due to how it's all configured it can still process far larger chunks of data per cycle than the Wii could and likely the 360. Thanks!
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Nov 29, 2012 17:43
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No one hates Nintendo more than hardcore Nintendo fans.
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Nov 29, 2012 17:44
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Xavier434 posted:I would prefer that the industry solve this kind of problem through the creation game engines which allow developers to scale their games far more easily. I think a big part of that comes with Nintendo being open with sharing their toolsets that they've created, or at least sharing the tricks they've developed to circumvent the possible limitations of the console. I don't know what deal with Satan Nintendo made to push out the visuals in Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, but I think 3rd parties would've been more open to developing games for the Wii if they had a toolset like that available to them out of the gate. If Nintendo really wants to stay on top of things this time around, they need to cater to 3rd parties more in the form of being completely open with how to develop on the console, that way they don't have to spend unnecessary time and money working around the console's limitations. flyboi posted:Basically it's tri-core and has a really kick-rear end gpu. The gpu is actually a gpgpu so while the cpu is nothing "amazing" the big point is the gpu can now offload a lot of taxing processes cpus normally had to do. On top of this the Wii U has a lot of edram which is used to push stuff through the processors. Because of how it's all laid out it may seem like a slow turd but in reality due to how it's all configured it can still process far larger chunks of data per cycle than the Wii could and likely the 360. OR THIS, like all of it.
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Nov 29, 2012 17:51
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flyboi posted:Basically it's tri-core and has a really kick-rear end gpu. The gpu is actually a gpgpu so while the cpu is nothing "amazing" the big point is the gpu can now offload a lot of taxing processes cpus normally had to do. On top of this the Wii U has a lot of edram which is used to push stuff through the processors. Because of how it's all laid out it may seem like a slow turd but in reality due to how it's all configured it can still process far larger chunks of data per cycle than the Wii could and likely the 360. This sounds similar to how the PS2 had it's "emotion engine" which from what I hear in the emulator scene was totally unique and very difficult to emulate. If I recall the PS2 had a whole bunch of really slow co-processors that all worked in parallel on different tasks rather than one really strong CPU. The PS2 was still pretty powerful from what I remember. I think it makes sense for consoles to get away from x86-style systems since they're trying to do two totally different things. As far as the WiiU being a performance turd, I don't think we'll know anything till late 2013/early 2014. Same with the next XBox and PlayStation. We won't know how they really perform till we're a bit into their life cycle. I'm hoping all three systems are great and competitive though. Having more platforms results in better competition and a wider selection of games.
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Nov 29, 2012 17:56
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After reading marcan's comments here's a little more and explaining his comments- So the Wii U CPU is 750 based while the 360/PS3 is based off the 970 architecture. Back when 970 was developed was before cores were fully understood or implemented and you had architecture akin to a pentium 4. The idea back then was that you could offload scheduling of threading to the processor and have it intelligently schedule two threads at the same time on a single core aka hyper threading. The problem with the technology is that by doing this you have to extend what is called the pipeline to allow for the branching of two threads on a single core. The longer the pipeline, the longer an instruction takes to complete. Intel noticed that this was inefficient with their P4 pipeline - 20 stage pipeline and rebuilt the core series similer to the P3 series - 12-16 stages depending on the revision. Less stages means that instructions move at a faster rate. The 750 was built with the idea of single instruction for a cpu while the 970 has "hyper threading." So the Wii U cpu is a tri-core processor but each core is single threaded while the 360 and PS3 have the extra stages for threading, making instructions slower. Along with the massive amounts of edram (ram that is essentially directly attached to the core of the processor) it is plausible that the Wii U cpu while still at a slower clock speed can push MUCH more data. Also depending on how smart the compiler is for Wii U the threading is much easier for a developer to implement as you are not dealing with hyper threaded environments. With hyper threading the idea was a processor can rely on what's called branch prediction and execute two instructions faster than one with the assumption that branch prediction will be right 99% of the time. Problem is programmers are terrible and this is never the case. When branch prediction fails that thread then has to run completely through the instruction while the other thread waits causing latency. A good explanation on branch prediction can be seen here and why it's so troublesome for hyper threading http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11227809/why-is-processing-a-sorted-array-faster-than-an-unsorted-array
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Nov 29, 2012 17:56
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Louisgod posted:I think a big part of that comes with Nintendo being open with sharing their toolsets that they've created, or at least sharing the tricks they've developed to circumvent the possible limitations of the console. I don't know what deal with Satan Nintendo made to push out the visuals in Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, but I think 3rd parties would've been more open to developing games for the Wii if they had a toolset like that available to them out of the gate. I agree 100%. Combining that with the sort of engines I desire and what flyboi posted then the industry would be golden. Sigh...
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Nov 29, 2012 17:59
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Artix74 posted:It does, yes. Unless you never owned a Wii, there's really no excuse for being confused as to what controllers work for something, and even then your rule of thumb is a simple as "It's a Wii game, you can't use Wii U poo poo with it." Yeah but the Wii U pro controller wasn't released yet when the game was released. I thought maybe I could use it with it. It's no big deal.
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Nov 29, 2012 18:00
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A number of people seem to be assuming that since the CPU bottlenecks quick 360 ports, it will also bottleneck software optimized or built from the ground up for Wii U. Even with the limited information we do have about the Wii U architecture, that doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Nov 29, 2012 18:02
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flyboi posted:
NERD! No but seriously that explained a ton really. I know next to nothing about processors and I'm guilty of going "Bigger number better  " plenty of times
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Nov 29, 2012 18:02
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about processor
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Thank you for the education flyboi.
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Nov 29, 2012 18:04
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Plus I think most people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. Thats why I buy them at least. But sadly, in my opinion, this is where Nintendo is starting to flounder most. Mario Galaxy franchise totally rules but the New franchise is unarguably getting stale. Mario Kart franchise is good but it's also unarguably stale. Star Fox franchise is essentially dead. The past two major Zelda games have gotten stellar reviews and sold well, but a year later the general consensus is that the games are 'meh' (I for one really hated Skyward). Other M bodes ominously for the Metroid franchise. Smash Bros Brawl was good but not really 'better' than Melee — if the next game is nothing more than a few more iterative changes, it will feel really stale. Basically, unless they reinvent a lot of their franchises the way they reinvented Mario with the 'Galaxy' series, will people really be excited for Nintendo releases? Would anyone here truly get excited if they announced a "Mario Kart Wii U" that looked just like an old Mario Kart?
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Nov 29, 2012 18:09
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flyboi posted:After reading marcan's comments here's a little more and explaining his comments- This is really informative and I knew absolutely nothing about this despite writing code all day for my job. I guess this is what happens when you program in things like MATLAB/SAS/R rather than Java or C++. Thanks!
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Nov 29, 2012 18:10
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