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The real question these games raise is "who's more awesome, Dai or ZTS?"
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Dec 2, 2012 00:03
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:50 |
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Character's discussing things is half the fun of Umineko. Also apparently Beatrice likes to hang around the kitchen.
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Dec 2, 2012 02:31
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I think I would like it if Beatrice turned out to be real, but all the murders were performed by someone from the main cast. She would just chill out on the sidelines and roll her eyes at the end, sighing "These people really are a bunch of crazy assholes" and shrug. I'd not thought out the logistics or plausibility of this plan, I just think it would be neat 
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Dec 2, 2012 14:35
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Two scorpion charms were given out, and two servants were killed as replacements. This sounds somewhat plausible, if I work on the assumption that the charms are some sort of signal to the culprit. Initially they were given to Battler and Jessica. Jessica later gave hers to Natsuhi. Battler dropping his is, perhaps, irrelevant, provided that the culprit knows he bore it at some point. Proceeding with the stated assumption, we can speculate that the culprit has a list of targets and an order for them. For some reason he also has an escape clause for a few targets as chosen by Maria. In other words, the culprit must have had time to brief Maria. Was she ever out of sight once they arrived on the island? If not, we are forced to conclude that the briefing occurred on the boat ride in. Curiously, we can note that if Maria had not given out the charms, then the first set of murders would have cleanly wiped out Battler's branch of the family, and killed off both of Jessica's parents. I'm not sure yet what this implies. Rosa's death is interesting as well in hindsight, as it gives a lot of freedom to Maria to move around and be a general pest and/or accomplice, witting or unwitting. It is eminently clear that Maria is a vital tool for the culprit. On an unrelated thread, I'm wondering if perhaps "Beatrice" is a collective term for symptoms of a disease to which Kinzo developed immunity. This brings the twist a bit too close to Higurashi, though.
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Dec 2, 2012 15:30
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Fightest posted:Proceeding with the stated assumption, we can speculate that the culprit has a list of targets and an order for them. For some reason he also has an escape clause for a few targets as chosen by Maria. In other words, the culprit must have had time to brief Maria. Was she ever out of sight once they arrived on the island? If not, we are forced to conclude that the briefing occurred on the boat ride in. I'm assuming that due to the length of time Maria was out there in the flower garden alone, that would of been the time for the briefing as well as giving the envelope and umbrella. They would also have to know about Maria's fascination with the occult, which doesn't help narrow down the list of suspects but I don't think it would of been information readily available to anyone outside the family.
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Dec 2, 2012 18:14
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Rodyle posted:The real question these games raise is "who's more awesome, Dai or ZTS?" The soundtrack for this game kicks serious rear end and we haven't heard close to the best of it yet. Every episode introduces new music and I reckon 3-5 have the greatest.
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Dec 2, 2012 18:32
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LeeDless posted:The soundtrack for this game kicks serious rear end and we haven't heard close to the best of it yet. Every episode introduces new music and I reckon 3-5 have the greatest. There's a particular major family of songs that I feel gets its best entry in Episode 8 actually. But yes, all of it, so good.
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Dec 2, 2012 18:43
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I like (well, not really, but as a concept  ) the idea of the charms being signals and that there's a list of potential victims. Now two issues come up:1) Battler didn't really show off the charm. Only Maria, he, Jessica, George, and Shannon can we safely assume know he had the charm prior to him losing it (if indeed he lost it, as opposed to him trying to one-up Maria). 2) Jessica gave Natsuhi the charm, but who would know that? Natsuhi placed the charm on the inside of the door. Dr Pepper posted:Character's discussing things is half the fun of Umineko. 
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Dec 2, 2012 19:06
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Fightest posted:Was she ever out of sight once they arrived on the island? When Rosa made Maria stand outside alone in the rain after slapping her a lot. That's also when Beatrice gave her the letter. Of course, this still brings up the problem of how the culprit knew Natsuhi had the charm.
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Dec 2, 2012 20:35
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Dr Pepper posted:When Rosa made Maria stand outside alone in the rain after slapping her a lot. That's easy. The culprit is 
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Dec 2, 2012 21:13
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Rodyle posted:There's a particular major family of songs that I feel gets its best entry in Episode 8 actually. But yes, all of it, so good.
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Dec 2, 2012 21:40
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Autumncomet posted:I like (well, not really, but as a concept Assuming Maria is an informant/accomplice to the culprit, that doesn't narrow things down so much as it means she told the culprit who she'd given the scorpion charms to. But then there'd be no point in using them as a signal in the first place. Hmm.
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Dec 2, 2012 22:25
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LeeDless posted:Are you referring to this track? No, I'm talking about LastEndConductor.
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Dec 2, 2012 22:37
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Rodyle posted:The real question these games raise is "who's more awesome, Dai or ZTS?" It's a question with no right answer. Trying to pick one is like trying to pick between chocolate and peanut butter. Or cake and pie. Or which of your terrible children to sacrifice to a witch (first). And I found Lastendconductor relatively disappointing, really. The real musical highlights there were Soar and the ending track.
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Dec 2, 2012 23:46
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Shiny777 do you think you could include a link to officially buy this game in your OP?
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Dec 3, 2012 00:14
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Shiny777 posted:It's a question with no right answer. Trying to pick one is like trying to pick between chocolate and peanut butter. Or cake and pie. Or which of your terrible children to sacrifice to a witch (first). Well on further reflection worldenddominator is still my favorite of that family actually, but yes that ending theme oh my god. Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Dec 3, 2012 |
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Dec 3, 2012 00:18
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LeeDless posted:Shiny777 do you think you could include a link to officially buy this game in your OP? I was going to grump about the lovely redownloading policy from Hobibox (after 7 days, you're hosed), but it looks like the disc versions of EP4 and EP8 are sold out everywhere. That sucks for newcomers.
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Dec 3, 2012 00:25
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For theme's I like Ridicule If only for how creepy it is.
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Dec 3, 2012 05:43
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So many  in this update. I still think that Kumasawa is the one behind it, by the way.LeeDless posted:Shiny777 do you think you could include a link to officially buy this game in your OP? The problem with the link is that it does not work for every region. Is there one that works for Hong Kong? 
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Dec 3, 2012 07:06
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Added the link with a note that it won't work everywhere. Unfortunately, I don't know of any other places to buy it that cover the rest of the world, and a quick search turned up nothing. If anyone does know of alternatives for other regions, speak up and I'll link them too.
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Dec 3, 2012 10:09
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Omniphile posted:Assuming Maria is an informant/accomplice to the culprit, that doesn't narrow things down so much as it means she told the culprit who she'd given the scorpion charms to. But then there'd be no point in using them as a signal in the first place. Hmm. It is somewhat easier for a culprit to go "Hey, Maria, give these charms to the people you want to protect from Beatrice" and then ask her who she gave the charms to rather than asking her directly whom she feels Beatrice shouldn't kill. That does leave the issue with Natsuhi/Jessica. How about this: the culprit goes around with a master key and a murder weapon, and what they do first is open a door slightly and feel the inside handle to see if there is a scorpion charm. If there is, they abort and leave. If not, they proceed to attack. Whilst not the most elegant solution, I believe this, for the time being, explains the use of a scorpion charm to signal protection. Essentially, the culprit knows that the charms were initially given to Jessica and Battler, but does the door-check anyway in case the charms are transferred. This does leave the question of why then was Battler's door not marked? If he was not a target for the first six murders, then that breaks the theory that servants are killed as replacements. Maybe he got lucky in that Shannon suddenly became a liability and needed to be removed from the picture, thus taking up the sixth slot? Finally, the purpose of the bloody door mark itself. It is clearly an indication of something. Maybe the particular order in which the murders happen is a clue of some sort, and the mark is there to provide it even if the scorpion charms throw off the list. There is only one meaningful mystery that the culprit could provide clues for, and that's the location of the gold.
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Dec 3, 2012 11:40
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So the culprit knows that Jessica and Butler have the charms, so s/he didn't even approached them. Then s/he tried to kill Natsuhi, but when s/he found that the charm was inside s/he give up and and didn't kill her.
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Dec 3, 2012 12:28
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YggdrasilTM posted:So the culprit knows that Jessica and Butler have the charms, so s/he didn't even approached them. Then s/he tried to kill Natsuhi, but when s/he found that the charm was inside s/he give up and and didn't kill her. Yes, but why mark only Natsuhi's door?
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Dec 3, 2012 13:12
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It does seem probable that the culprit gave the charms to Maria for protection against "Beatrice", but he/she should know that Jessica is staying at the guesthouse for the night. Why would he/she need to check Natsuhi's room when Jessica is certainly not there? Now for some prediction: The next verse talks about tearing apart the two that were close. While a number of interpretations are possible, I would assume it means the death of two persons related in some manner, as that provides a bigger dramatic impact than a single death, and we have already seen relations being torn apart by murder. Of the remaining cast, only George's family remains intact, so they would be prime victim choices. I think Eve would die since the biggest suspects usually get killed quite soon, and George because the cousins are not quite shaken enough yet. Lastly, the letter warns about collecting all of Kinzo's family as the interest unless the riddle is solved. As that probably would not happen any time soon, it means even Battler would get killed eventually. How would the story goes on then? The first post suggests that this game will follow the Higurashi tradition of looping everything over: Shiny777 posted:They are about girls in fancy dresses using colored text and looping closed circle murder mysteries to troll the bastard child of Phoenix Wright, Captain Falcon, and Zelos Wilder. but a loop would certainly involve magic of some sort, which Battler (and the reader) is supposedly against. It would be interesting to see how the game will mesh that element in without ruining the murder mystery.
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Dec 3, 2012 14:05
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Battler, you really need to stave in Maria's head with a brick or something. Creepy little girls are not to be trusted. It seems to come up in anime and such all the time that all Japanese girls are obsessed with the occult and supernatural stuff. It's kind of odd, since it isn't really a thing I've noticed here, an odd cultural disconnect I guess. Speaking of which. Shiny777 posted:
Sure, dude, whatever you say.
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Dec 3, 2012 19:05
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: "That's because fortune telling and spiritual senses are things that aren't taught in school. To girls, who unlike guys are more introverted, that's a genre which is easy to build an identity upon, and one that they find very interesting."
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I think George is projecting.  Fightest posted:Yes, but why mark only Natsuhi's door?
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Dec 3, 2012 21:38
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Fightest posted:Yes, but why mark only Natsuhi's door? Maybe because she's the only unexpected person to have a scorpion charm? That is, assuming someone who knows what Maria did with the charms but not what happened with them afterwards.
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Dec 3, 2012 21:43
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Fightest posted:Yes, but why mark only Natsuhi's door? Ran out of red paint and they forgot to place an order for a new one. This whole post killing talk is interesting, but the kitchen scene is even more interesting. It actually tells you straight fowardly that someone under the name of Beatrice is running around the island and probably performing these acts of occult murder, and this is comming from the servants of the house hold. Also, in reality, to be able to carry 6 bodies into the shed without being detected nor leaving a marks on the floor, other than the ones in the dining room, is quite a feat. Considering how large some of the victims were, it would need at least 2 people to carry them.
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Dec 3, 2012 21:56
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Hey now, George hasn't been killed yet.
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Dec 3, 2012 23:04
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Benly posted:Maybe because she's the only unexpected person to have a scorpion charm? That is, assuming someone who knows what Maria did with the charms but not what happened with them afterwards. Then how would she know that Jessica gave the charm to Natsuhi? There's the big puzzler here. Current best guess- Kinzo has video cameras everywhere and figured that since Natsuhi put on at least a show of believing in magic, he'd spare her for the night.
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Dec 3, 2012 23:12
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Walterion posted:Ran out of red paint and they forgot to place an order for a new one. It's possible they only believe that a person name Beatrice is around and the real one died long ago. After all Kinzo is what 80 and it's possible Beatrice was older then him.
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Dec 3, 2012 23:46
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I could almost believe in Kinzo and Maria teaming up to murder everyone so that Maria can be the successor if it weren't for that strength caveat. An old man and a little girl aren't in the best shape to carry around a bunch of dead bodies.
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Dec 4, 2012 00:01
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Omniphile posted:I could almost believe in Kinzo and Maria teaming up to murder everyone so that Maria can be the successor if it weren't for that strength caveat. An old man and a little girl aren't in the best shape to carry around a bunch of dead bodies. Who are you to cast doubt on the indomitable might of the family head!?
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Dec 4, 2012 00:05
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Is it possible they enlisted Gohda and Shannon to help for reasons (I don't know work with me here ), and then killed them once they had finished getting the other four bodies to the shack?
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Dec 4, 2012 01:08
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I think that Natsuhi/Scorpion charm is a red herring. She was never in danger. If I were the killer, I'd of taken the 6 easiest targets. After that, the mark would of been put on anyone's door who could come up with the charm excuse. I'm sure most of the family would of known about the mirror charm, or at least the servants from some ordered snooping. And the headache issue is an obvious fact about her, probably something to be counted on to make her take to bed early.
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Dec 4, 2012 04:39
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Omniphile posted:I could almost believe in Kinzo and Maria teaming up to murder everyone so that Maria can be the successor if it weren't for that strength caveat. An old man and a little girl aren't in the best shape to carry around a bunch of dead bodies. Pretty sure if he really wanted to it wouldn't stop him. That fucker runs on absinthe, a massive boner for Beatrice and sheer unrepentant spite. Besides, assuming the victims were killed inside the mansion, there's surprisingly little blood for how gory the deaths were. It's more probable that the culprit used a tarp to carry them. They'd have access to the shed anyway, so why not help themselves to one more tool?
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Dec 4, 2012 05:19
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RedMagus posted:I think that Natsuhi/Scorpion charm is a red herring. She was never in danger. I agree with this. Since we're going for the "no magic, ever" rule, I don't think the charms mean anything at all. (I still say Natsuhi was just smart or paranoid enough to lock her door and that's what saved her.)
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Dec 4, 2012 05:55
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PoliteMachineGun posted:Besides, assuming the victims were killed inside the mansion, there's surprisingly little blood for how gory the deaths were. It's more probable that the culprit used a tarp to carry them. They'd have access to the shed anyway, so why not help themselves to one more tool? The mutilation happened after death. There are no marks on the bodies otherwise (or they would have been mentioned). In other words, the deaths are possibly bloodless. ... Which gives me an idea. I mentioned before that there's the entertaining thought that "Beatrice" is a lethal disease/neurotoxin/whatever and its symptoms. One of these symptoms is seeing golden butterflies, say (which is a bizarre thing to crib from Cowboy Bebop, of all things). In other words, the mutilations are there to make observers think that the six were murdered, where instead they were killed by "Beatrice." This is definitely out there, but that's hardly a reason to throw it out. The damning question here is, of course, how can "Beatrice" be so precisely targeted? Two possibilities are that one: it is a binary agent that only activates due to the presence of some other chemical or two: it's not, and Kinzo is hoping that the correct number of people die every time or boy will he be embarassed.
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Dec 4, 2012 13:46
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The problem I have with that theory is that, from a meta-level, it is very similar to the twist in Higurashi and I don't think the author would retread the same ground, it would seem lazy.
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Dec 4, 2012 14:13
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:50 |
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Anastasiya posted:I agree with this. Since we're going for the "no magic, ever" rule, I don't think the charms mean anything at all. Yeah, but the killer wants to give a "This is Magic!" idea, so s/he maybe wants to use the charms as an "explanation" for saving some people. Then s/he found the same charm on Natsuhi, and s/he is forced to not kill her for consistency.
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Dec 4, 2012 16:13
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