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Doh004 posted:I was making a jab at your avatar, but I was also talking about the whole using the helicopter to fly to his son's game and him being too fat to walk the 50 feet and blah blah blah. That poo poo played out, he apologized, paid for the cost of the helicopter flight and moved on. Just like the rest of us had. There's plenty more to discredit about him (like his fiscal policies). I wasn't telling you how to think or feel and if you thought otherwise, then I apologize for giving the wrong impression. Also that wasn't a strawman argument. Since that was a real thing that happened. It doesn't matter if he apologized for it or not, I wasn't setting up a fake argument to knock down, I was giving an example of a fuckup of his. It's as silly as the dude who gave me the red text avatar to say I was strawmanning. Even if he apologized, though, that'd still be an easy commercial for painting him as lazy because holy poo poo that was lazy as gently caress. It'd play well in primaries because they could easily omit the apology and let it gain traction and make him apologize for it again. Also as someone else pointed out, he has done other poo poo even worse then that, and actually lies about it instead of apologizing. The high speed rail thing is literally a readymade commercial from even his primary opposition. It'd be hypocritical of them to hit him on something they themselves would have done, but that won't stop them. Though if the establishment throws their lot in with him, I'd say it'd be his to lose, no matter his problems.
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Dec 10, 2012 17:49
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Fat-based attacks on Christie will backfire.
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Dec 10, 2012 18:11
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greatn posted:My biggest issue with Christie is his lying about the cost of the high speed rail and killing it. He continues to lite about it now even with disputes showing it would cost WAY LESS than he said it would. I don't remember anything about high speed rail, only the ARC tunnel getting canceled, which was a lovely move from him.
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Dec 10, 2012 18:12
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Neremworld posted:Also that wasn't a strawman argument. Since that was a real thing that happened. It doesn't matter if he apologized for it or not, I wasn't setting up a fake argument to knock down, I was giving an example of a fuckup of his. It's as silly as the dude who gave me the red text avatar to say I was strawmanning. I'd love to see the first person to make a fat-based attack on Christie turn out to be a candidate who is polling at 2% and has nothing more to lose. You won't see any candidate with a realistic shot at the nomination making fat-based attacks. quote:Also as someone else pointed out, he has done other poo poo even worse then that, and actually lies about it instead of apologizing. The high speed rail thing is literally a readymade commercial from even his primary opposition. It'd be hypocritical of them to hit him on something they themselves would have done, but that won't stop them. Okay, but it is interesting how this thread has turned into "is he too fat?" and other fat-based attacks. That's just going to turn it into a Sister Souljah moment for Christie. And I find it very hard to believe a Republican primary will be all in an uproar over someone canceling high-speed rail. First, it won't happen. But even if it did, Christie will just say that the feds weren't being truthful about the cost or how much his state would have to pay/small government/DC sucks. Hell, I'm not even sure if it'd work in the general either. How many times did we hear about "infrastructure" in turns of roads and bridges and highways rather than other types of transit in 2012?
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Dec 10, 2012 18:17
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Install Gentoo posted:I don't remember anything about high speed rail, only the ARC tunnel getting canceled, which was a lovely move from him. That's what I meant, I often conflate the two issues.
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Dec 10, 2012 18:18
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Neremworld posted:Even if he apologized, though, that'd still be an easy commercial for painting him as lazy because holy poo poo that was lazy as gently caress. It'd play well in primaries because they could easily omit the apology and let it gain traction and make him apologize for it again. But Christie wouldn't omit the apology. Christie would go and explain what happened and what he did afterwards and why he'll never do it again. Gaffes aren't perpetual. They only stay strong if you hem and haw your away around it and allow it to grow, like Romney did with the 47% comment. By trying to play it off as him "misspeaking" and being "inarticulate," it only brought the comments more scrutiny. If you keep attacking a guy on something minor that he's already made right by, it's going to do more harm to you. The biggest thing against Chris Christie is that the Republican party has become self-destructive. They would literally rather drown in the sinking Titanic than have a Democrat help them onto a life boat. The way they talk about what he did with Obama really pissed a lot of them off. Just listen to Rush! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7de3xGw7t4 Just try not to throw up in your mouth a little, just because Limbaugh is so incredibly ignorant and stupid. He should have come down to the Jersey shore and say what he said on air to their faces.
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Dec 10, 2012 18:23
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watt par posted:The worst was him going on a tear about the mayor of Atlantic City during a pre-landfall press conference, calling the guy names and blaming him for any potential deaths. Absolutely childish and it made me worried since big hurricanes aren't a thing up there he'd get in the way of FEMA afterward and seriously put lives in danger because of his grandstanding and churlishness. Could you imagine how he'd handle a full-blown national emergency? I wouldn't say it was childish, yelling "YOU ARE GOING TO loving DIE IF YOU STAY IN YOUR HOUSES ON A BARRIER ISLAND IN A MAJOR HURRICANE, DONT LISTEN TO YOUR FUCKTARD OF A MAYOR" seems pretty reasonable to me.
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Dec 10, 2012 18:29
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hobbesmaster posted:I wouldn't say it was childish, yelling "YOU ARE GOING TO loving DIE IF YOU STAY IN YOUR HOUSES ON A BARRIER ISLAND IN A MAJOR HURRICANE, DONT LISTEN TO YOUR FUCKTARD OF A MAYOR" seems pretty reasonable to me. Yeah, I remember watching that and he seemed pissed, but reasonable. Frankly, I think it's a good thing that he didn't mince words.
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Dec 10, 2012 18:45
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SedanChair posted:Fat-based attacks on Christie will backfire. Attacks absolutely will. Nobody will need to make them because if he's up on stage and doing campaign events at his current 400, the media will run a thousand manufactured controversy stories. None of them will be individually effective, either, they'll just stick in people's heads and culminate in a hundred thousand Stay Puft image macro chain email forwards every time he gets attention. When you're on TV every day for a year, that stuff matters. It's especially bad when combined with debates, because he'll be standing behind a podium that's literally too skinny to contain him and the contrast between him and everybody else on stage will be huge. I don't see him as unelectable, but if he wants to max his chances he's got two years to drop a couple of hundred pounds. hobbesmaster posted:I wouldn't say it was childish, yelling "YOU ARE GOING TO loving DIE IF YOU STAY IN YOUR HOUSES ON A BARRIER ISLAND IN A MAJOR HURRICANE, DONT LISTEN TO YOUR FUCKTARD OF A MAYOR" seems pretty reasonable to me. Yeah, that was fine. If AC residents had followed the mayor's advice there'd be a dozen more dead people in that city. He was entitled to be pissed. Adar fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Dec 10, 2012 |
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Dec 10, 2012 18:59
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SedanChair posted:Fat-based attacks on Christie will backfire.
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Dec 10, 2012 19:00
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hobbesmaster posted:I wouldn't say it was childish, yelling "YOU ARE GOING TO loving DIE IF YOU STAY IN YOUR HOUSES ON A BARRIER ISLAND IN A MAJOR HURRICANE, DONT LISTEN TO YOUR FUCKTARD OF A MAYOR" seems pretty reasonable to me. Telling people to ignore their mayor and heed mandatory evacuation orders is one thing, but calling the guy an idiot justified or not and spazzing out 48 hours before the storm has even hit is another. I've lived through plenty of hurricanes and both good and bad governors and I've never seen something so unprofessional and frankly dangerous. The governor is the last person who needs to be letting his emotions run rampant and having an on-air meltdown before an emergency of that magnitude.
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Dec 10, 2012 19:15
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Adar posted:I don't see him as unelectable, but if he wants to max his chances he's got two years to drop a couple of hundred pounds. To my mind, the bigger problem for an obese candidate would simply be the insane pace of the presidential campaign itself. Pulling 12-18 hour days, constantly bouncing from city to city, and living out of a suitcase for a year or more is physically difficult to maintain. Healthy people routinely snap under the strain - their exhaustion manifesting itself in poor decisions, short tempers, depression, and a general loss of charisma. Someone who is significantly obese would not be able to keep up, and would probably give themselves a heart-attack trying.
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Dec 10, 2012 19:16
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If he were to experience weight related health issues while campaigning, I think it could honestly and justly be an issue, but there's no reason to assume he would. I think the more pressing issue when it comes to winning a primary is simply "he hugged Obama".
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Dec 10, 2012 19:18
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watt par posted:Telling people to ignore their mayor and heed mandatory evacuation orders is one thing, but calling the guy an idiot justified or not and spazzing out 48 hours before the storm has even hit is another. I've lived through plenty of hurricanes and both good and bad governors and I've never seen something so unprofessional and frankly dangerous. The governor is the last person who needs to be letting his emotions run rampant and having an on-air meltdown before an emergency of that magnitude. But see, in this case, the storm really was that bad and the people who could have physically evacuated and chose not to really should not have stayed. If Christie just issued a press release declaring a mandatory evacuation, that'd be a HUGE issue in any campaign about how he failed as a Governor. Yes, if Christie is cordinating disaster relief in the aftermath, he should be calm. Before, telling people don't be loving idiots and get out of dodge is 100% justified. I think Adar and Kaal also have framed the "fat" issue much better than anyone else. As Joementum said, Romney had to take time off for exhaustion and he is in great shape for someone who is 65. Christie can drop weight, but if he doesn't build up endurance, then traveling Iowa->New Hampshire->South Carolina is gonna be torture.
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Dec 10, 2012 19:21
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notthegoatseguy posted:Yes, if Christie is cordinating disaster relief in the aftermath, he should be calm. Before, telling people don't be loving idiots and get out of dodge is 100% justified. He did the exact opposite of that though. He mostly spent the time ranting about the mayor of AC, not stressing the importance of leaving.
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Dec 10, 2012 19:25
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Kaal posted:To my mind, the bigger problem for an obese candidate would simply be the insane pace of the presidential campaign itself. Pulling 12-18 hour days, constantly bouncing from city to city, and living out of a suitcase for a year or more is physically difficult to maintain. Healthy people routinely snap under the strain - their exhaustion manifesting itself in poor decisions, short tempers, depression, and a general loss of charisma. Someone who is significantly obese would not be able to keep up, and would probably give themselves a heart-attack trying. Surely if Newt Gingrich (fat) or Ron Paul (very elderly) can keep up, a much younger man with a hundred extra pounds can as well, especially with Christie's reputation for energy.
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Dec 10, 2012 19:31
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watt par posted:He did the exact opposite of that though. He mostly spent the time ranting about the mayor of AC, not stressing the importance of leaving. Yeah this just isn't true. These were a couple of short press conference soundbites in between fervent pleas to evacuate - ones that were absolutely substantively and tonally correct and probably saved real human lives. You can hit Christie for a lot of things, but turning on Mayor Langford on storm prep isn't one of them.
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Dec 10, 2012 19:31
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TheBalor posted:Surely if Newt Gingrich (fat) or Ron Paul (very elderly) can keep up, a much younger man with a hundred extra pounds can as well, especially with Christie's reputation for energy. Neither of them made it to the main event. Also, Newt was running a book tour right up until the eve of the Iowa Caucuses and never really formed a true campaign. Two weeks before the caucuses his field offices in Iowa didn't have working phone lines. Ron, on the other hand, exercises daily and is in decent shape for his age, but was also running a quixotic campaign where all he really did was show up for a speech once a week on some college campus and direct his campaign staff to put up another moneybomb. We're assuming that a Christie campaign would actually be serious.
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Dec 10, 2012 19:35
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Regarding Christie's weight, I'm just guessing but it seems like it would especially pollute all those Iowa state fair and the just-dropping-in-on-a diner / ice cream shop / etc. politicking and photo ops. As in, no matter what Christie was saying the same "fat person eating" thoughts would be the only things running through peoples' minds. I don't know if you can run a campaign without a lot of those events but I doubt it (if you can they should have done so with Romney).
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Dec 10, 2012 19:36
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Tea leaves within tea leaves.
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Dec 10, 2012 19:39
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How necessary ARE those stupid fairs and what not? Couldn't someone with enough star power throw big non fair events and get people to come to THEM instead of going to all these stupid diners and watermelon seed spitting contests?
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Dec 10, 2012 19:40
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greatn posted:How necessary ARE those stupid fairs and what not? Couldn't someone with enough star power throw big non fair events and get people to come to THEM instead of going to all these stupid diners and watermelon seed spitting contests? They're winnowing events for the second tier. If you're the frontrunner and already have good fundraising in place, you don't need to bother. But if you're trying to compete mid-pack then it can be a way to get the media and donors to treat you seriously by showing that you have an organization in place. If, on the other hand, you blow all your campaign cash on one of them and still don't beat some of the crazies, it's time to hang up your hat and cozy up to the frontrunner to inject your name and "Vice President" in as many conversations as you can. They're also huge fundraisers for the party, so they're not going anywhere.
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Dec 10, 2012 19:43
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Joementum posted:
Also, fried butter on a stick.
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Dec 10, 2012 19:56
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Yes, happy birthday to you and to my dad, citizen. This is why I have retweeted you.
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Dec 10, 2012 20:20
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watt par posted:He did the exact opposite of that though. He mostly spent the time ranting about the mayor of AC, not stressing the importance of leaving. Here is Chris Christie ranting about how dumb Atlatnic City's Mayor is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfU63W93O3w In a post-Sandy Fox and Friends, even though Gretchen sets him up to smash AC's mayor, he doesn't mention him at all at about the 2 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XjgQepttb4 notthegoatseguy fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Dec 10, 2012 |
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Dec 10, 2012 20:20
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Doh004 posted:Would you rather I contribute something that we can all agree with and continually pat ourselves on our backs because we're just so right? Or, you know, discuss possibilities and characteristics/qualities of potential candidates four years down the road that the rest of America will decide upon (not just us here in DND)? Take your pick.
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Dec 10, 2012 20:27
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Joementum posted:Tea leaves within tea leaves. Would you consider that the most subtle tweet from someone so far about seeking higher office? Wondering if there are any other pols, who tweet for example, as subtlety as Trump does?
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Dec 10, 2012 20:45
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Nonsense posted:Chris Christie is an idiot and he will not win the nomination sorry nobody is going to praise your conservative genius. ...who is less of an idiot, though?
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Dec 10, 2012 21:07
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SedanChair posted:...who is less of an idiot, though? Anybody who hasn't hugged a Democrat.
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Dec 10, 2012 21:13
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SedanChair posted:Fat-based attacks on Christie will backfire. notthegoatseguy posted:I'd love to see the first person to make a fat-based attack on Christie turn out to be a candidate who is polling at 2% and has nothing more to lose. You won't see any candidate with a realistic shot at the nomination making fat-based attacks. Well I wasn't interested in HE'S FAT crap, which while a problem for his image isn't insurmountable in the least. I was more pointing out how frankly terrible it looks that he REALLY needed to take a helicopter to the game and then drive that last few feet. That's just ridiculous. It'd be different if he was like Huckabee who was big but didn't do anything that hilariously drew negative attention to it. With our luck it'll be him hugging a black president that undoes him.
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Dec 10, 2012 22:30
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Nonsense posted:Chris Christie is an idiot and he will not win the nomination sorry nobody is going to praise your conservative genius. Holy poo poo  Did you really just call me a conservative? Did you really just generalize everything about me merely because I've explained why some people might want to support Chris Christie? Have I ever stated that I would vote for him? Did I ever say "You know what, I agree with his conservative ideas of governance". Have you not seen me post in other threads throughout this whole loving election where I've shown that I'm a liberal? gently caress off. You're no different then the conservatives we complain about here.
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Dec 10, 2012 22:49
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greatn posted:I think the more pressing issue when it comes to winning a primary is simply "he hugged Obama". All Christie has to say was that he was trying to throttle Obama, but accidentally went to low and ended wrapping his arms around Obama's torso, and it just would have been too awkward to move those arms up. If the field is bad enough, maybe they'll accept that explanation.
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Dec 10, 2012 23:02
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Cemetry Gator posted:All Christie has to say was that he was trying to throttle Obama, but accidentally went to low and ended wrapping his arms around Obama's torso, and it just would have been too awkward to move those arms up. These are the people the Onion managed to convince into believing that Planned Parenthood was actually going to build a multi-million dollar Abortionplex. There is no bar low enough.
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Dec 10, 2012 23:06
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Alter Ego posted:These are the people the Onion managed to convince into believing that Planned Parenthood was actually going to build a multi-million dollar Abortionplex. The Abortionplex was one of their best moments pre-2012 election season.
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Dec 10, 2012 23:17
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gently caress, I'll vote for him. I'll vote for anyone to get Rick Scott the gently caress out of Tallahassee.
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Dec 10, 2012 23:40
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Hillary has a stomach flu. How might this affect her chances in 2016?
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Dec 11, 2012 17:37
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Joementum posted:Hillary has a stomach flu. How might this affect her chances in 2016?
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Dec 11, 2012 18:31
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Medical disclosures are required of the candidates. It's how we found out that Mitt Romney's resting heart rate is 40 and he is allergic to penicillin.
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Dec 11, 2012 19:03
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Joementum posted:Medical disclosures are required of the candidates. It's how we found out that Mitt Romney's resting heart rate is 40 and he is allergic to penicillin. Well there's no legal requirement, otherwise Bartlett might have been impeached, just a strong expectation much like a candidates' tax returns. FDR, Wilson, and Kennedy all hid debilitating illnesses from the American people. As recently as 1992 Paul Tsongas ran for the Democratic nomination knowing he'd already been diagnosed with the cancer that would have killed him in his first term.
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Dec 11, 2012 19:48
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What did Kennedy have?
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Dec 11, 2012 19:51
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