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Reading this thread is like watching a toddler leaning over to a light socket with a fork and somebody in the room stopping them at the last second, over and over again, repeated indefinitely.
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Dec 8, 2012 20:52
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tuyop posted:Thanks for the huge effort post, what's your prescription for action, kobayashi? I think you definitely need to either improve your sense of what is or isn't a necessity, or find someone you trust who has that sense and is willing to be completely honest with you about your decisions. Right now the forums are serving that purpose pretty well, but you can't live the rest of your life running all your major decisions by BFC - you need to find a real-life friend who can tell you "building your own home and devoting half of it to growing BASIL is dumb" or "man, I heard that brand of supplements is 80% sugar" while you guys work out together or whatever you do for fun. You've got the whole mindframe of "I don't really need to be buying non-necessities unless they can make me money somehow" down and you're making progress on "I bet I could probably find this cheaper, let's go bargain-hunt". But is it a necessity to spend $750 on presents? You're congratulating yourself for saving $50 on kitchen appliances while buying a $150 breast pump for your sister-in-law. Your priorities tend to get all messed up, and you seem to prefer risky ways of saving or making money (like building a house yourself to save a few thousand or trying to turn hydroponic BASIL into a moneymaker). You need to learn some impulse control and curb your tendency toward risky behaviors.
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Dec 8, 2012 23:01
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I just visited a guy who's lived in a yurt for the past 8 years with a friend who's also interested in minimal living and frugality and stuff. He invited us to come help him with his apiary and intentional community planning in the spring. Anyway, his house/yurt was really normal and warm and minimal. Like, it was instantly recognizable as a home, it was perfectly comfortable and I think this might be an option for us in the next five years. He was really interested in starting an intentional community of some sort, and I am too. I just don't really know how you get involved in one of those. Regarding the breast pump and Christmas expense. The pump was kind of sprung on us as our "share" of a present for the SIL who is really not in the proper place to be having a child, and between us it's not really a big deal. Toeshoes also has a huge immediate family and we're splitting the cost, so I don't think it's an outrageous amount to spend. The lowest we can go is 400 for travel, we'll try to save money by buying our gifts in the US on the way home, but again the 600 estimate is split between us and I really don't think it's that expensive. I kind of hate the whole practice of exchanging nonconsumable gifts between adults for the holidays, but it is what it is.
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Dec 8, 2012 23:29
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Tuyop, if you would make a proper budget, none of this would matter. Step 1: Get paid. Step 2: Put a large, pre-determined amount of money in your emergency fund. The same amount every month. Always. Try to arrange for an auto-deposit from your household account. This is for buying a new car when your old one dies before you've paid it off (this will happen), tow trucks, etc. Don't use it for anything but NECESSARY IMMEDIATE expenses. Step 3: Pay your bills. Pay a certain amount more than the minimum on your debts. Double the minimum? Triple? See what you'll be able to afford with enough left over for groceries and incidentals in your WORST month. Always pay this amount. Step 4: Put aside your grocery fund for the month in cash. Step 5: After the first month of this, anything left over is your fun money. Don't forget that unforeseen vacations and basil farms and fun expensive bike toys and bargain Chinese brain poisons have to come from this money, so it's best not to go crazy and spend it all every month. If the next pay comes in and you haven't spent your fun money, put it in your household account as padding or cash in a jar if you trust your friends or whatever. If you run over every month, put more on one of your debts in the future. Just think how many tiny houses you can build for cash once you're free of the debt. Stop worrying about what you've done with your money in the past. You're not learning any lasting lessons there. Work harder on putting your money where it belongs. You don't have to explain what you do with slush fund money to anyone but Toeshoes, but recognize that you have a lot of impractical ideas and maybe ask her what she thinks first. And don't let your slush fund get too big until you've paid off the debt and increased the size of your emergency fund. Who knows, maybe that will be a sizeable house down payment for you someday.
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Dec 8, 2012 23:44
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And don't waste any goddamn money on a Yurt!
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Dec 9, 2012 00:17
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Tuyop, repeat after me: "I'm sorry, but money is tight right now and I can't afford to buy everyone a Christmas present. You don't have to buy one for me, either."
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Dec 9, 2012 00:20
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The biggest spending addict in BFC is going to join a commune and live a minimalist lifestyle. We rag on you tuyop, but I really will be thrilled if you pull this off. In the short term, keep focused on that budget and when you meet the relative that sprung the "your share of a breast pump" idea, give him/her a good swift kick in the pants.
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Dec 9, 2012 02:44
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tuyop posted:Regarding the breast pump and Christmas expense. The pump was kind of sprung on us as our "share" of a present for the SIL who is really not in the proper place to be having a child, and between us it's not really a big deal. Toeshoes also has a huge immediate family and we're splitting the cost, so I don't think it's an outrageous amount to spend. How do you square this with congratulating yourself for saving $50 on kitchen appliances, though? You can't buy a microwave for yourself but you're just fine with spending ten times as much on things for other people? There's nothing wrong with blowing more than half a grand on gifts for people, and there's nothing wrong with being frugal with your appliances. However, there's something seriously wrong with when you're doing both at the same time, running a minimalist kitchen while coming up with a Zaurg-esque gift budget. That, to me, signals serious problems with your spending patterns and priorities. It also ties into your usual cycle, where you over-deprive yourself and build up stress which leads to you splurging on something. It shouldn't matter that someone else "sprung it on us". You're physically disabled and have $50,000 in debt. That gives you all the right you'll ever need to say "No, I can't buy a lot of expensive gifts this year" and give cards or homemade crafts or something instead. Not that you really need a right to do it. If you hate the practice of buying gifts for people, then don't do it. If they expect you to do it, then just buy them little things, rather than going whole hog on it. Opting out of Christmas altogether because you disapprove of the practice can make you look like an rear end, but there's nothing dickish about spending less than $50 on every gift - not even if your family was expecting you to spend more. They can't tell you how much to spend, and if they try even after you gently refuse, then they're the ones being assholes.
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Dec 9, 2012 03:49
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tuyop posted:I just visited a guy who's lived in a yurt for the past 8 years Oh sweet jesus yes. I've been trying so hard for the last week and a half not to mention yurts. And you have done it. My patience paid off oh my god.
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Dec 9, 2012 06:06
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I think yurts are pretty cool too but I think they're probably cooler in my head than they'd be to actually live in.
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Dec 9, 2012 06:36
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They're cool for camping in. They can be used for long term living but it's not feasible if you're not minimalistic. Which means it's a bad idea for a lot of people.
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Dec 9, 2012 07:49
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moana posted:I got my first microwave for free off of craigslist because the display was broken. Used it for five years no problem and replaced it with one I saw on sale for like $25. If your past is any indication, you'll "go without" a microwave for a year and then convince yourself that your willpower means you deserve to buy a $200 top-end microwave. So don't do that. But if he picked up a sub $20 microwave he wouldn't be able to pat himself on the back about not having a microwave. It also would be harder to justify spending $1000 on Christmas presents and travel when you don't have a short list of all your "sufferings" to weigh against. I don't even have a microwave, I deserve this holiday trip and presents!
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Dec 9, 2012 08:51
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Chronojam posted:A microwave is an energy efficient way to heat a wide variety of meals in a timely fashion, so get yourself a modest microwave. I would encourage anybody to get a microwave. Do not get a turkey-sized microwave with all-digital controls and auto-cook features, set yourself a budget ahead of time.
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Dec 9, 2012 14:04
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quaint bucket posted:Oh sweet jesus yes. I've been trying so hard for the last week and a half not to mention yurts. Reading this thread is like looking at my mental state from a few years ago. Luckily, my wife would yell at me and throw things when I suggested we live in a tent in the woods, or when I wanted to turn the front yard into a garden, or when I was thinking about moving the middle of nowhere and build a small house, or when I'm thinking about buying expensive poo poo for whatever amused me at the time.
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Dec 9, 2012 16:22
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cstine posted:or when I wanted to turn the front yard into a garden, This is a great idea and your wife is crazy, fyi. Gardening together is great fun, and you can get a lot more yield than you think out of a small area like that.
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Dec 9, 2012 16:51
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Fraternite posted:This is a great idea and your wife is crazy, fyi. It's more a matter that I work 70 hours a week, and she works at least 50 (and overnight shifts at that) - so while a garden sounds great, when, exactly, are we going to do that? What would happen is I'd start something, then three weeks later it'd still be half-done, the city would be complaining about the mess, and it'd get half-rear end finished and then promptly overgrown by weeds. When I'm not on a crazy manic phase, I can rationally view things like that as BAD IDEAS, and the rest of the time I rely on her telling me what the BAD IDEAS are.
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Dec 9, 2012 17:46
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We aren't planning on getting a microwave. So we can stop talking about that, and the cheapest microwave we can find is 60$ anyway.
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Dec 9, 2012 20:51
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They don't have Wal-Marts in your areas? You can get a microwave for half of that. But really, lets move on, the microwave discussion is boring.
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Dec 9, 2012 20:52
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ToeShoes posted:We aren't planning on getting a microwave. So we can stop talking about that, and the cheapest microwave we can find is 60$ anyway. So how about yurts. You like yurts? What about dirt? Dirt and yurts. What are your thoughts on living in a shack in the woods?
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Dec 9, 2012 20:57
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Is it possible to build a dirt yurt? I'm thinking a yurt made out of dirt. All the money you save on building materials can be
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Dec 9, 2012 21:19
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Luigi's Discount Porn Bin posted:Yeah, a microwave will actually save you money in the long run because it's so much more efficient at (re)heating stuff than an oven is. This is especially important if you're cooking large batches of stuff ahead of time and eating leftovers, which is a good way of wrangling cheap meals. It's absolutely worth dropping $10 on a slightly scuffed used one for $5 from a garage sale or Kijiji or whatever, or even $25 on a cheap new one. Leftovers are the best, my wife and I routinely cook huge wokfuls of fried rice, several quarts of beef stew, or a whole 4lb pack of chicken with another pound of pasta in one go... and I can't imagine using an oven to re-heat that, or hell, your Thanksgiving bird remains. It's 30-second meals for a day or two after.
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Dec 9, 2012 22:00
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ToeShoes posted:We aren't planning on getting a microwave. So we can stop talking about that, and the cheapest microwave we can find is 60$ anyway. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with not getting a microwave and saving sixty bucks. There's also nothing wrong with spending six hundred dollars on presents. Doing both at once, on the other hand, is a little suspect. It's not really about the specific purchases so much as it is about the spending strategies and patterns behind them.
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Dec 10, 2012 00:05
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ToeShoes posted:We aren't planning on getting a microwave. So we can stop talking about that, and the cheapest microwave we can find is 60$ anyway. Its not so much that we want you to buy a microwave, its addressing the faulty thinking that allows Tuyop to say, "We're spending $1000 on Christmas presents. Its OK to splurge on this because I deprive myself so much, I don't even have a microwave." Denying yourself small kitchen appliances (that you can get for free from the link I posted earlier, lets channel some of the manic energy into finding bargains) that you may not actually need is fine, it saves money. But financially solvent people don't use those small savings as justification for blowing the budget when they are facing eminent unemployment and disability. You guys might be better off just acquiring those home goods just so they can't be used as a flimsy excuse later to blow the budget of something stupid like a yurt.
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Dec 10, 2012 01:34
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Hey. Hey. Yurts are cool, don't knock them.
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Dec 10, 2012 06:40
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If you want to live in temporary housing, yurts are just one of many options. Probably another option that's not much more expensive, but a lot more comfortable, is a mobile home. One advantage of a mobile home is that it has a modicum of indoor plumbing. I imagine during the harsh Canadian winter, indoor plumbing is nice. Of course, a mobile home costs money - but then, so does a yurt. I think Tuyop's yurt is gonna look rad, all festooned on the inside with high-end bicycle gear and boxes of miracle energy powder, and surrounded by hydroponic basil greenhouses made of only the finest imported german greenhouse glass. (Yeah, it's expensive, but it's 18% more UV efficient!) What is the maximum snow burden that a yurt roof will support? Better get a really top-quality yurt brush to keep it clean.
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Dec 10, 2012 07:14
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Leperflesh posted:If you want to live in temporary housing, yurts are just one of many options. Probably another option that's not much more expensive, but a lot more comfortable, is a mobile home. One advantage of a mobile home is that it has a modicum of indoor plumbing. I imagine during the harsh Canadian winter, indoor plumbing is nice. Of course, a mobile home costs money - but then, so does a yurt. Thankfully, he was smart enough to waterproof the Yurt. He could have used a conventional chemical waterproofer, but instead he used imported organic beeswax. It cost 300% more than the conventional, but some of those chemicals have been tenuously linked to cancer within the margin of error, so...
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Dec 10, 2012 16:06
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tuyop posted:Regarding the breast pump and Christmas expense. The pump was kind of sprung on us as our "share" of a present for the SIL who is really not in the proper place to be having a child, and between us it's not really a big deal. Toeshoes also has a huge immediate family and we're splitting the cost, so I don't think it's an outrageous amount to spend. Uncool about the person(s) who sprung the "here's your share of an expensive gift" thing on you. I mean, I'm not a breast pump expert but it looks to me like your relatives are choosing the most top-of-the-line breast pump and you are going halfsies on it. If Toeshoes's immediate family is so huge, why are you guys having to pay such a large portion of this gift? This doesn't seem fair to me. Do they understand your monetary situation? If not, I agree with the previous posters that you need to let them know. It's transparency and people don't like to talk about money but you need to be honest about what you can and can't do right now. I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I've been in your same situation before - well at least with a lot of debt and not a lot of money coming in. I had to miss gift-giving and holiday travelling a couple of years in a row because I just couldn't afford it. Relatives and friends who truly love you will understand.
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Dec 10, 2012 20:25
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Nether Postlude posted:Uncool about the person(s) who sprung the "here's your share of an expensive gift" thing on you. I mean, I'm not a breast pump expert but it looks to me like your relatives are choosing the most top-of-the-line breast pump and you are going halfsies on it. If Toeshoes's immediate family is so huge, why are you guys having to pay such a large portion of this gift? This doesn't seem fair to me. Do they understand your monetary situation? If not, I agree with the previous posters that you need to let them know. It's transparency and people don't like to talk about money but you need to be honest about what you can and can't do right now. The true tuyop way would have been to find plans online and spend $300 building his own pump.
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Dec 10, 2012 21:09
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canyoneer posted:The true tuyop way would have been to find plans online and spend $300 building his own pump. And then realize he accidentally made a bicycle pump and not a breast pump. They both start with a B and are much easier to confuse than people think. Who knew!
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Dec 10, 2012 22:21
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Mulatto Butts posted:And then realize he accidentally made a bicycle pump and not a breast pump. They both start with a B and are much easier to confuse than people think. Who knew! But the cost savings of having his own bicycle pump for when he bikes to work every day will pay for itself in no time! Until he tries to do it in a Canadian winter, gets frostbite, hits black ice, and skids off a cliff.
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Dec 10, 2012 22:51
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Wandering Knitter posted:Tuyop, repeat after me: "I'm sorry, but money is tight right now and I can't afford to buy everyone a Christmas present. You don't have to buy one for me, either." Done, I feel crappy about it because gift giving is always this reciprocal guilt fest, but oh well. Next year this time we'll hopefully be debt-free (not toxxed!) and able to buy something nice for everyone to celebrate. Maybe. Or I'll love this whole anti-consumerist Christmas and just write letters to my family members and make a tradition out of it or something. The best thing would just be to have like some kind of teleconferenced Christmas, but toeshoes would probably leave me because she's very close with her family, and then I'd lose the second income! Consider this vacation an investment that maintains a 40k stream of revenue into our lives. One thing we would really like to do is set up an RESP or some kind of savings vehicle for our new niece. The goal would be to pay for 1/3 of the cost of her tuition to either university or a vocational college when she graduates high school. But, given the expected cost of university reaching 92k in the future, I don't know how practical it is. But if we save $60/month together for 18 years with an imaginary savings rate of 6.5%, we'll have around 27k saved by the time she's 18 according to this calculator. However, if we do this for every child who comes into the family, poo poo could get unreasonable quickly, and we still would want to save for our own child whenever we decide to stop practicing and make a baby for real. What do you guys think? FrozenVent posted:They don't have Wal-Marts in your areas? You can get a microwave for half of that.  Just sayin'. From the Walmart down the street, also: microwaves are usually 40 bucks around here used, which is the same for food processors and electric mixers and griddles and other fancy extravagant food gadgets. tuyop fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Dec 11, 2012 |
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Dec 11, 2012 01:17
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tuyop posted:Done, I feel crappy about it because gift giving is always this reciprocal guilt fest, but oh well. Next year this time we'll hopefully be debt-free (not toxxed!) and able to buy something nice for everyone to celebrate. Maybe. Or I'll love this whole anti-consumerist Christmas and just write letters to my family members and make a tradition out of it or something. You are both strapped for cash. Trying to save for the college education of a child other than your own is absurd, especially in the amounts that you are talking about. Worry about yourself, because honestly, you should be more concerned about improving your own situation before you can help others. Edit: Use that 60 bucks to get a drat microwave.
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Dec 11, 2012 01:21
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tuyop posted:One thing we would really like to do is set up an RESP or some kind of savings vehicle for our new niece. No. tuyop posted:microwaves are usually 40 bucks around here used, which is the same for food processors and electric mixers and griddles and other fancy extravagant food gadgets. There are plenty of $25 and under microwaves on that site. How much is a carton of cigarettes? http://barrie.kijiji.ca/f-microwave-buy-and-sell-home-appliances-microwaves-cookers-W0QQCatIdZ694QQKeywordZmicrowave
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Dec 11, 2012 01:30
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Its a lovely thought, and bless you for loving your family. However, setting up a college fund for a child other than your own while severely in debt is literally a thing that Zaurg did. Must we say more?
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Dec 11, 2012 01:40
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RESPs aren't that great. Don't waste your time. Buy the kid some ankle socks. Functional, yet stylish.
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Dec 11, 2012 01:40
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tuyop posted:One thing we would really like to do is set up an RESP or some kind of savings vehicle for our new niece. The goal would be to pay for 1/3 of the cost of her tuition to either university or a vocational college when she graduates high school. You know you're running short on maniac ideas when you're taking ideas straight out of Zaurg's playbook.
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Dec 11, 2012 01:45
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I thought they got rid of RESPs after introducing the TFSAs anyways? Or was it just that they were going to do it and never did?
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Dec 11, 2012 01:50
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Main Paineframe posted:You know you're running short on maniac ideas when you're taking ideas straight out of Zaurg's playbook. It's just that her mom (the SIL) is not going to be able to do that for her daughter and we feel really bad about it. The SIL couldn't afford crib sheets when the baby was born, of all things. You guys are right, it just seems like such a small amount for a potentially huge amount of help. 30% of my tuition would have kept me from joining the regular force, for instance. But it's not such a special story, except for how close this child is to me for once I guess.
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Dec 11, 2012 01:56
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Firstly, you cannot afford it. Second, I'd say that helping out one niece and not any of the others sounds like a recipe for the kind of bitter family resentments that last for decades. If you guys had decided that you never wanted kids of your own, and were well-off instead of flat broke, and if your extended family were small enough for you to spread the generosity around fairly, then yes, helping out with college fees might have been a nice gesture. However none of those things are true for you. tuyop posted:But if we save $60/month together for 18 years with an imaginary savings rate of 6.5%, we'll have around 27k saved by the time she's 18 according to this calculator. FYI, 'imaginary' is not the appropriate word for an assumed 6.5% savings rate. Try 'total loving pipe dream'.
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Dec 11, 2012 02:00
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DoctorTristan posted:Firstly, you cannot afford it. Second, I'd say that helping out one niece and not any of the others sounds like a recipe for the kind of bitter family resentments that last for decades. Also 27k (adjusted for inflation) will be, what, 3 months tuition in 18 years?
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Dec 11, 2012 02:16
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