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Haledjian posted:Yeah I have the same feeling. I will say it feels like the most egregious stuff was at the beginning, and there hasn't been any blatant abuse of that nature or rape-as-gag incidents for the past few months. Although if I remember right Kazerad kind of denied changing his tack based on feedback, so who knows. I might have to go back through it, but there were definitely moments in the most recent parts that made me make faces. Might have been something about the 'stripper is the only option you idiot, you're worthless at everything else!' thing, I don't know-- again, I read it in more or less one shot, so the impressions were all super-fresh as I was going through it. I think it stopped being a 'gag' around the time it was presented as 'internalized character disorder,' and then reinforced multiple times in either the 'you' dialogue, or the character dialogue itself. DISCLAIMER: Sluts of all genders and creeds can be loving hilarious! It's true! But the rhetoric, and the narrative, made it distinctly unfunny, in a way that wasn't a 'serious take on the issue,' which really made it jarring. If it kept up, I would've probably stopped reading. And there are so many amusing/hilarious moments in it that it would've been legitimately difficult to say 'I'm done,' so, I guess he gets kudos for that.
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Dec 8, 2012 10:56
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An Old Boot posted:DISCLAIMER: Sluts of all genders and creeds can be loving hilarious! It's true! Indeed (NWS: Oglaf).
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Dec 8, 2012 12:14
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I think the idea was always that the character would evolve out of that mindset. You'll notice that, for instance, this last time she rejected drinking as a solution to her problems, and scammed the poledancing striptease dude so she could get armor and learn to fight. (Which is still not great, but it's an improvement.) We, the readers, are not supposed to think her attitude is healthy or good. It is uncomfortable, though; I think he meant it that way, although it's certainly legitimate to talk about whether him making these uncomfortable scenes had the effect he wanted.
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Dec 8, 2012 14:18
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idonotlikepeas posted:We, the readers, are not supposed to think her attitude is healthy or good. It is uncomfortable, though; I think he meant it that way, although it's certainly legitimate to talk about whether him making these uncomfortable scenes had the effect he wanted. I agree with most of what you've said, but, yeah, it's the approach that got me, not so much the decision to do it. Just seems like, either it's a gag, or it's serious. It's hard to see it in between with the amazing amount of emphasis it's given on both fronts.  bein' a wet blanket I know, but (see above).I have to stress again that if this was written by a woman, I'd find the approach just as jarring. I don't want to use silly SJW language or even give the impression that I'm speaking REALLY PASSIONATELY about it, more that, yeah, I think the intended effect fell short with me. The word slut being used multiple times in the same paragraph in the same cheeky way actually would've pissed me off more if it came from a woman. Guys I more or less expect it from. Still didn't really do anything aside from make me feel even worse for the character, in a way I'm pretty sure was not authorial intent.
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Dec 8, 2012 15:04
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Kalos posted:I've never been there, but I'm sure ADTRW can help you fulfill your quota of catgirl sex. No, you'd pretty much be largely ignored, mocked by some, and quickly banned on sight. v- I am confuse. What means-- "joke"?  -v
DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Dec 8, 2012 |
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Dec 8, 2012 17:33
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DrSunshine posted:No, you'd pretty much be largely ignored, mocked by some, and quickly banned on sight. I think Kalos was making what one would call a joke. 
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Dec 8, 2012 19:04
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idonotlikepeas posted:I think the idea was always that the character would evolve out of that mindset. You'll notice that, for instance, this last time she rejected drinking as a solution to her problems, and scammed the poledancing striptease dude so she could get armor and learn to fight. (Which is still not great, but it's an improvement.) My main wonder though is: is there anything to distinguish the treatment of "sluttiness" in this comic from what it would look like if it were written by someone who thinks sluttiness is Bad and Girls Shouldn't Do It. Because I'm not really seeing it. Like I said before, Kazerad's reasoning is that the comic isn't About that and he doesn't want to be preachy, but the comic unavoidably deals with the subject, and when you deal with a subject you make a commentary on it whether you want to or not. And if it's really not intended to be a slutshaming comic then I don't think it's in full control of its message.
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Dec 8, 2012 20:57
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Well, it's from Katia's point of view. If I blacked out and woke to find that I'd had a three-way with a necromancer and a skeleton, I presume I'd feel bad.
Scaly Haylie fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Dec 9, 2012 |
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Dec 9, 2012 00:17
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I think the way it's portrayed is that is isn't just the one problem she has, but a perfect storm of different problems, extenuating circumstances and character traits that add up to a seemingly endless cycle of failure. Any one of those traits alone wouldn't be damning, but together they cause serious problems. Interestingly, this is a comic where the main character constantly laments not feeling in control of her life, and regrets the self destructive behavior that she engages in on a near constant basis. It's also driven primarily by reader suggestions that often lament not being fully in control of her life and then cause/regret that exact kind of behavior.
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Dec 9, 2012 01:08
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Lizard Wizard posted:Well, it's from Katia's point of view. If I blacked out and woke to find that I'd had a three-way with a necromancer and a skeleton, I presume I'd feel bad. Pyradox posted:I think the way it's portrayed is that is isn't just the one problem she has, but a perfect storm of different problems, extenuating circumstances and character traits that add up to a seemingly endless cycle of failure. Any one of those traits alone wouldn't be damning, but together they cause serious problems.
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Dec 9, 2012 01:45
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After reading the comic I found myself a bit upset with the use of the word "slut" in all the descriptive material surrounding the comic, official and unofficial. I remember talking in IRC about how much I enjoyed it and was immediately irked by someone who summarised it as a story about a "slutty cat". I personally recognise a degree of separation between the reductive misogynistic view of Prequel and what the comic actually is. "Slutcat Adventures" is something said by inarticulate fans trying to be funny, not anything to do with the comic itself, at least in my understanding of it. I don't see Katia's sexuality as a focus of the story, but I do see it as something that fans latch onto in an unpleasant way. Until Kazerad clarifies otherwise, I view the about page's references to sexuality as dated shoutouts to a facetious little meme that expanded beyond its bounds. I'd prefer it just said "furry Homestuck." :|
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Dec 9, 2012 04:31
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SuitCase874 posted:I don't see Katia's sexuality as a focus of the story, but I do see it as something that fans latch onto in an unpleasant way. Wow, I hadn't seen the about page. That makes it even better. There's a general rule in narratives, though, about how often something is brought up. If it continues to be brought up, the audience accepts it as a part of the story, and as a trait they should be paying attention to. It's set in stone as part of the character arc, and the expectation is that it'll be dealt with, even if it's not a central premise. I don't hold out good odds that it'll be treated well at this point, though, so I really do hope it just gets dropped entirely. Anyway, it's not an extreme point of focus, no, but it is in focus. Like Haledjian said: Haledjian posted:The fact that "being a slut" is presented as a Problem alongside actual problems like alcoholism is kind of the issue. And it is-- which may be entirely because the narrative can't make up its drat mind on how to treat it. It is framed as a gag, and as a bad thing, and as something that legitimately causes the character emotional upheaval, and then as a gag, and then as a jokey callback, then as part of a nervous breakdown-- there's not even enough consistency as a gimmick to just be able to say 'come on, it's just a stupid joke.' Like I said, it makes me uncomfortable. And I'm hoping it's just a case of 'I can't make up my mind on what to do with this even though I sure am bringing it up a lot!!' rather than anything else. But either it's a joke, or it isn't, at this point. Last of the  and then I'm done, because I'll have cycled back around to repeating myself and others: intent vs. execution is really the biggest issue here. Whatever the intent, something else came out of it, and it'd probably help if Kazerad did a review of what he wants to do with the trait before moving forward. Personally, I'd prefer to see it fall out of focus entirely, or something positive to come from it, rather than to just keep the impression of 'promiscuity is part of the reason you're a failure/a sign that you're completely broken,' when the traits that define the type of promiscuity that's a symptom of something genuinely bad (esteem issues/alcoholism/etc) come across as incredibly muddy. The "no, I get that this can be a big deal" brand of self-awareness some of the other sensitive subjects are given are absent in this case, as well, so there's a disparity on top of everything else. Like it's been said, whether or not the comic's trying to be preachy, it's gotten dangerously close to being that way, and it's having real trouble controlling its own message, if it's unintentional. Makes it awkward. :I
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Dec 9, 2012 05:38
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I know there's a big commotion over something right now but I'm just going to leave this here.
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Dec 9, 2012 23:38
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How did everyone get caught up in some meaningless bullshit Kazerad said, instead of his true crime, which is being a God damned furry?
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Dec 12, 2012 02:34
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The Koos Grip posted:How did everyone get caught up in some meaningless bullshit Kazerad said, instead of his true crime, which is being a God damned furry? Last time you trolled this thread you demanded the story get back to naked catgirl antics. Pot. Kettle. Black. VVVVV: Oh! Eggie fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Dec 12, 2012 |
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Dec 12, 2012 02:42
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Eggie posted:Last time you trolled this thread you demanded the story get back to naked catgirl antics. I want to do a naked cat. Furries want to be a naked cat.
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Dec 12, 2012 02:44
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The Koos Grip posted:How did everyone get caught up in some meaningless bullshit Kazerad said, instead of his true crime, which is being a God damned furry? God, even I could make a better troll than this. The main character of this webcomic could troll the thread better than you. You're not even trying.
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Dec 12, 2012 02:48
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Furries want to be a naked cat and also do other naked cats and people who are naked cats. I guess that makes you like half furry? Alt: there are furries and then there are
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Dec 12, 2012 02:49
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The Koos Grip posted:How did everyone get caught up in some meaningless bullshit Kazerad said, instead of his true crime, which is being a God damned furry? Holy poo poo, my first Koos sighting. 
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Dec 12, 2012 02:49
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Yonic Symbolism posted:God, even I could make a better troll than this. The main character of this webcomic could troll the thread better than you. You're not even trying. Are you calling me a troll?
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Dec 12, 2012 02:53
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Even if we take the furry thing as a given they aren't as big a target as they used to be. The biggest targets now are Reddit pedophiles.
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Dec 12, 2012 03:12
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bonestructure posted:Holy poo poo, my first Koos sighting. Here's your second. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4rUTMWsuLM
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Dec 12, 2012 03:22
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scarycave posted:Here's your second. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4rUTMWsuLM
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Dec 12, 2012 03:31
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I think furries is allowed now because Social Justice.
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Dec 12, 2012 04:05
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Haledjian posted:I think furries is allowed now because Social Justice. Stop kinkshaming Katia e: like all things social justice, "kinkshaming" started as a reasonable idea and was almost immediately co-opted by idiots.
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Dec 12, 2012 04:27
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PleasingFungus posted:Stop kinkshaming Katia I think you mean "like all things, ever, in the history of mankind".
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Dec 12, 2012 06:16
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PleasingFungus posted:Stop kinkshaming Katia More seriously, I feel like the internet furry hate usually had more to do with their public behavior (as irredeemable manbabies with no self-awareness whatsoever) than with their particular sexual proclivities. And with Lackadaisy, Cheap Thrills et al, I don't think characters that look like furries draw as much attention as they used to. Which isn't to say that a significant portion of the Prequel fan response isn't kinda disturbing. But, you know, the internet.
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Dec 12, 2012 08:26
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Cabbit posted:I think you mean "like all things, ever, in the history of mankind". Social justice has really loving streamlined the process though.
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Dec 12, 2012 08:37
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That particular tumblr's not so bad. It's pretty poorly done, but it hardly rates as disturbing. Not to say you could swing a skeever without hitting a creepy Prequel tumblr, though.
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Dec 13, 2012 05:50
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Lizard Wizard posted:That particular tumblr's not so bad. It's pretty poorly done, but it hardly rates as disturbing. Not to say you could swing a skeever without hitting a creepy Prequel tumblr, though. 
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Dec 13, 2012 07:36
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Haledjian posted:I awno, I feel like it's really misinterpreting the character. Katia in the comic is very much about doing for self, even if she kind of sucks at it, whereas this dude is really fetishizing her helplessness. I feel like that's more creepy than some of the porno that pops up on there, but that's just me Yeah, but you use the words "Prequel fan response" and "disturbing" and THAT'S all you could come up with?
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Dec 13, 2012 23:44
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There was also a guy in the Tumblr tags who is like, infatuated with her. Every time there's an update he posts a cropped picture of her face and is like "Katia..."
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Dec 14, 2012 01:55
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Katia: Continue practice That's right Katia, baby steps. You're making progress.
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Dec 16, 2012 06:40
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Haledjian posted:I awno, I feel like it's really misinterpreting the character. Katia in the comic is very much about doing for self, even if she kind of sucks at it, whereas this dude is really fetishizing her helplessness. I feel like that's more creepy than some of the porno that pops up on there, but that's just me Man you guys are creeped out way too easily. There's a difference between flandarization and fetishization. And given there's like ten posts there I am not sure you could call it either. Also, this showed up in another Prequel thread and made me giggle embarrassingly: 
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Dec 16, 2012 07:06
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Is the first image in this update supposed to animate, or do anything at all? It just appears as empty sky to me, and all the other gifs seem to be working.
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Dec 16, 2012 07:25
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Ahaha. I heard that this big delay was due to you trying something new, but it ultimately not working. If true, care to share?
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Dec 16, 2012 07:26
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Those silhouette shots look very smooth like they were utilizing some kind of flash animation.
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Dec 16, 2012 07:54
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MoonwalkInvincible posted:Is the first image in this update supposed to animate, or do anything at all? It just appears as empty sky to me, and all the other gifs seem to be working. I have the same problem but it appears to be a gif.
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Dec 16, 2012 08:35
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Cthulhuchan posted:I heard that this big delay was due to you trying something new, but it ultimately not working. If true, care to share? Eggie posted:Those silhouette shots look very smooth like they were utilizing some kind of flash animation. My guess would be 3D animation. That shadow looked very pointy and polygonal, and there were a couple of shading mishaps and joints with tiny see through dots that wouldn't have happened in a 2D animation, but are very easy mistakes to make in a 3D animation.
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Dec 16, 2012 08:38
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Kazerad posted:Also, this showed up in another Prequel thread and made me giggle embarrassingly: Her gift card had expired.
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Dec 16, 2012 08:52
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