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Some Other Guy posted:Here's a fun rant I stumbled upon: http://io9.com/5967942/dear-jj-abrams-just-ing-tell-us-who-benedict-cumberbatch-is-playing-in-star-trek-2-already io9 psychotic breakdown posted:No one gives a poo poo but Trekkers, and they're not going to care any more or less now than they would have six months ago (or six months from now, for that matter). So if I'm parsing this correctly, non-trekkers won't care, and trekkers won't care. So no one cares. Except...this guy.
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Dec 13, 2012 06:14
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FrensaGeran posted:So if I'm parsing this correctly, non-trekkers won't care, and trekkers won't care. So no one cares. Except...this guy. I think the difference is that non-Trek fans will won't care and see the movie anyway, while Trekkers won't care enough to see the film.
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Dec 13, 2012 06:16
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Hey, if the enterprise can't go underwater, why can the jaegers in Pacific Rim? Game, set, match, H2Noers!
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Dec 13, 2012 06:19
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FrensaGeran posted:So if I'm parsing this correctly, non-trekkers won't care, and trekkers won't care. So no one cares. Except...this guy. Yeah it's a pretty disjointed argument. It's a calculated marketing gimmick and it probably works, so I can understand why they'd keep the villain mystery. If the villain is supposed to be a mystery within the plot (like, they don't reveal his true identity until a later act) I especially understand it. My annoyance is more concerned with the necessity or perceived necessity of these marketing gimmicks in general. I wish movies could be more about art than business, but you might as well wish for a universal public option for US healthcare while you're at it.
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Dec 13, 2012 06:45
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I've always heard of the "even numbered Trek film" thing, but I watched Star Trek 5 a few nights ago and it was really good, and now I'm watching First Contact and it's awful. Apparently everything I've ever been told about this series is wrong.
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Dec 13, 2012 07:15
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BulletRiddled posted:I've always heard of the "even numbered Trek film" thing, but I watched Star Trek 5 a few nights ago and it was really good, and now I'm watching First Contact and it's awful. Apparently everything I've ever been told about this series is wrong. It only really applies to the Original Series movies. Once you go to TNG, all bets are off.
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Dec 13, 2012 07:23
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BulletRiddled posted:I've always heard of the "even numbered Trek film" thing, but I watched Star Trek 5 a few nights ago and it was really good, and now I'm watching First Contact and it's awful. Apparently everything I've ever been told about this series is wrong. I'd like to hear why you think Star Trek V was great but you hate First Contact. I can see the problems in First Contact and I think Star Trek V isn't as bad as some people make out, but you are certainly espousing a controversial viewpoint here.
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Dec 13, 2012 07:32
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BulletRiddled posted:I've always heard of the "even numbered Trek film" thing, but I watched Star Trek 5 a few nights ago and it was really good, and now I'm watching First Contact and it's awful. Apparently everything I've ever been told about this series is wrong. I found Star Trek 5 infinitely more watchable then Generations, Insurrection, and Nemesis. I enjoyed First Contact but Plinkett's review really hit on all the problems in the film. Acid Jerk fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Dec 13, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 07:33
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Conversely, the first time I tried to watch V, I walked away after the rocket books scene.
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Dec 13, 2012 07:42
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I look at it like this. Star Trek 5 - Fun banter between Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Generations - Bridge on the captain. Reused bird of play explosion First Contact - Fun action, however if the Borg could time travel that easily, the Federation would have been wiped out already. Insurrection - Skin Stretching Nemesis - What were they thinking Acid Jerk fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Dec 13, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 07:48
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Acid Jerk posted:I look at it like this. Generations at least had some gorgeous shots of the big D before it got taken out like a punk.
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Dec 13, 2012 07:52
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Some Other Guy posted:I'd like to hear why you think Star Trek V was great but you hate First Contact. I can see the problems in First Contact and I think Star Trek V isn't as bad as some people make out, but you are certainly espousing a controversial viewpoint here. First Contact has better special effects, but it looks and feels like an extra long episode of a TV show I was never a big fan of in the first place. V at least looks like a movie, and the antagonist is infinitely more interesting. V didn't have any action at all, but it explored some really interesting ideas an I was genuinely curious how it was going to end. First Contact has no surprises, and a bunch of action sequences that are just people yelling gibberish technobabble and firing lasers. Neither is perfect, but at least V tried to do something. EDIT: Oh, it's Moby Dick again, except this time there's a character stating it directly into the camera. BulletRiddled fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Dec 13, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 07:58
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You could probably see the Plinkett review at Red Letter Media for my problems with First Contact. Another thing I'd add is that I didn't like the whole concept of a "Borg Queen." To me, the Borg were much more menacing when they were a technologically advanced collective juggernaut. You couldn't reason with them at all, let alone engage them in petty trickery such as what Data did. Why did they need a Queen? I get the insect analogy, but if you stop to think about it for one drat second you're comparing insects to hyper evolved cyborgs. But, it's a dumb action movie so I guess you gotta make a central villain character with a personality and all that dumb poo poo. You go from a race that "can't be reasoned with, can't be bargained with" to a race that can be fooled by the easiest trick in the book -- loving to build trust and then betraying that trust. "Recreate the vortex." Eh, gently caress it.
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Dec 13, 2012 08:25
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:That's because it was a dumbass approach to a non-problem in the first place. They could have just cold said "It's all new, we're going to be doing things differently, there is zero established continuity with the original series. We could make Kirk a eunuch and Spock a comedian if we want to. gently caress you." Some whiners would have howled and the movie would still have been a blockbuster with the general audience. It also gave them a good excuse to have Nimoy.
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Dec 13, 2012 10:47
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Pops Mgee posted:Generations at least had some gorgeous shots of the big D before it got taken out like a punk. Click for biiiiiig 
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Dec 13, 2012 13:11
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Aatrek posted:Click for biiiiiig Now if only they could have traveled through time and applied that same paint job and lighting to the model in the series. Seriously gorgeous stuff there, its as if they knew they were only getting maybe 7 shots of the ship and wanted them to count.
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Dec 13, 2012 13:51
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A human heart posted:Film is made up almost entirely of visual metaphors. It's not as if it's a real spaceship that someone just happened to capture on film. What ideals does the Enterprise represent? With just a trailer it's difficult to know what the water here is, but there's tons of things it could be. Assuming you're not just joking, please don't start this awful poo poo.
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Dec 13, 2012 15:13
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What awful poo poo? The discussion of what things mean in a film? I'm sorry if I'm not interested in the in universe canonical explanation for why the enterprise can't go underwater and the filmmakers are idiots or whatever the main discussion in here is.
A human heart fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Dec 13, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 15:19
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AlternateAccount posted:Assuming you're not just joking, please don't start this awful poo poo. No let's DO discuss visual metaphors in the loving film forum. What the hell man.
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Dec 13, 2012 15:23
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Okan170 posted:Now if only they could have traveled through time and applied that same paint job and lighting to the model in the series. Seriously gorgeous stuff there, its as if they knew they were only getting maybe 7 shots of the ship and wanted them to count. The problem with TV production is it's always a crunch and Image G had a hard time working with the six-foot model - hence why they built the four-foot model in the third season.
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Dec 13, 2012 15:27
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BulletRiddled posted:I've always heard of the "even numbered Trek film" thing, but I watched Star Trek 5 a few nights ago and it was really good, and now I'm watching First Contact and it's awful. Apparently everything I've ever been told about this series is wrong. The only good even numbered Treks are II and VI, which surprise are both directed by the same guy.
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Dec 13, 2012 15:51
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Okan170 posted:Now if only they could have traveled through time and applied that same paint job and lighting to the model in the series. Seriously gorgeous stuff there, its as if they knew they were only getting maybe 7 shots of the ship and wanted them to count. Check out the Blu-rays, man.   
Aatrek fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Dec 13, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 16:00
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Some Other Guy posted:You could probably see the Plinkett review at Red Letter Media for my problems with First Contact. I sorta agree with this. It felt like a big budget version of "The Best of Both Worlds" (which I thought was amazing) but gunked up with random bits on time travel and other stuff. That said, I really liked Star Trek the Motion Picture and Generations, so I'm weird.
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Dec 13, 2012 17:39
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I can understand why some people like V - it has some really interesting ideas. The execution is pretty awful, though, even if there are a few entertaining bits. Undiscovered Country is definitely the best Trek film, and honestly one of my favorite films ever. Those -D shots are loving gorgeous. Love it.
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Dec 13, 2012 18:24
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From a visual standpoint, something about V really looks a lot more legitimate and cinematic than it actually is.
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Dec 13, 2012 19:10
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Five both suffers from and is helped immensely by not having a big budget, causing Shatner to have to get creative.
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Dec 13, 2012 19:22
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V is a very good "Trek" movie if you ignore the plot. It had the heart of Star Trek, with some of the best interaction of the crew ever... it just had a really bad plot shackled to it. Also, I had the pleasure of seeing Measure of a Man and Q Who remastered on the big screen for the Blu-Ray release 2 weeks ago, and holy crap... those screen shots don't really do it justice until you see it in a theater. The D is a gorgeous ship when done up right.
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Dec 13, 2012 19:23
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Tars Tarkas posted:Five both suffers from and is helped immensely by not having a big budget, causing Shatner to have to get creative. If by "get creative" you mean "try to carry on and make an effects-heavy film anyway."
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Dec 13, 2012 19:24
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Aatrek posted:Check out the Blu-rays, man. FFFFFFFFFFF.....those are so loving gorgeous. This just makes my wait before I can afford the blu rays that much more aggravating.
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Dec 13, 2012 19:38
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Mortanis posted:V is a very good "Trek" movie if you ignore the plot. It had the heart of Star Trek, with some of the best interaction of the crew ever... it just had a really bad plot shackled to it. What exactly is it about the plot of V that is so bad? V is probably the movie that most closely resembles an episode of the original series.
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Dec 13, 2012 20:28
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Tezzeract posted:I sorta agree with this. It felt like a big budget version of "The Best of Both Worlds" (which I thought was amazing) but gunked up with random bits on time travel and other stuff. I should add that I did like First Contact and it's the movie that got me into Star Trek to begin with. At the time I remember thinking it was one of the coolest movies I had seen since Star Wars, which I had also just started getting into maybe two years prior. I remember seeing it in the theater and not knowing why everyone was applauding when they showed the Defiant. After First Contact I started watching DS9 which was in season 4/5 around that time IIRC and the rest is my own personal nerd history. In retrospect, after watching TNG and the rest of Star Trek, it was a dumb action movie with an out of character Picard, but it will always have a place in my heart nonetheless. I even bought the soundtrack!
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Dec 13, 2012 21:15
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Pioneer42 posted:What exactly is it about the plot of V that is so bad? V is probably the movie that most closely resembles an episode of the original series. Star Trek V wasn't that bad IMO. It had some dumb stuff, like the rocket boots and the fact that the Enterprise apparently has 99 levels on the turbo lift (what is it, the Death Star?). The Uhura dance scene was hard to watch. The only thing that REALLY ticked me off is this little scene in the bar toward the beginning when they're introducing the shithole planet. There's a viewscreen and some sort of real estate commercial for buying land on the planet is playing. I guess technically it wasn't just a Federation planet, but fuuuckkk yoouuuu, I like my Star Trek future when it's communist, damnit.
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Dec 13, 2012 21:21
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Some Other Guy posted:Star Trek V wasn't that bad IMO. quote:rocket boots quote:the Enterprise apparently has 99 levels quote:Uhura dance scene quote:little scene in the bar toward the beginning when they're introducing the shithole planet
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Dec 13, 2012 21:25
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Steve Yun posted:Yeah, it was that bad.
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Dec 13, 2012 21:27
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Steve Yun posted:Yeah, it was that bad. Star Trek V was bad but it was nowhere nearly as lovely as Insurrection or Nemesis. e: And even with it being 'bad', it still explored interesting territory. And as has been pointed out, it's probably the closest the movie franchise has come to emulating the 'spirit' of TOS.
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Dec 13, 2012 21:29
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I at least like watching Nemesis now to figure out how Tom Hardy survived it. There's nothing at all watchable in 5 because it's so terrible from the cinematic angle. Like Insurrection, which I've seen once.
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Dec 13, 2012 21:37
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WarLocke posted:Star Trek V was bad but it was nowhere nearly as lovely as Insurrection or Nemesis. Insurrection's only real fault is that it had an astoundingly boring premise and was completely forgettable in every way. Nemesis and V were horrible movies that were bad enough to become legendary for their terribleness. DFu4ever fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Dec 13, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 21:44
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WarLocke posted:Star Trek V was bad but it was nowhere nearly as lovely as Insurrection or Nemesis. "Now that's what I call... ... A CAPTIVE AUDIENCE" 
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Dec 13, 2012 21:57
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The villain is Spock's half brother, whom he've never heard of before. He has the power to "take away your pain". Somehow. Don't ask how, we won't be getting into it. He's just a really special half-Vulcan/half-human, with one very specific non-explained super power. The secondary villain is an incredibly boring Klingon. Who wants to kill Kirk. Because that's what Klingons do. But don't worry, he'll never be seen as an actual threat. Rocket boots. Row Row Row Your Boat. Uhura fan dance. "Hold onto your horse." A barrier into the center of the galaxy. That no one can go into. Or they'll die. Which they go through. In literally two seconds. With no damage to anything. The lights don't even flicker. Why did they think they couldn't go in there? Has the federation never even sent a probe into there? Did they just stay away because it had scary looking purple clouds? Finale where they meet God. Who isn't God. And, after being asked to "show yourself", shows up looking exactly like our villain. Which freaks the villain out. They shoot it with torpedoes. It's fine. They shoot it with one laser blast. It's dead. And finish is all out with a reprise of Row Row Row Your Boat. I'll give it that it has some good interactions. I especially love, "Don't you know a jail break when you see one?!" and the famous, "What does God need with a starship." And it does into some interesting themes. But the aforementioned bad far outweighs the good. At least First Contact was entertaining, and brought back the main enemies of TNG. I'd say the best odd Star Trek film is The Search for Spock. It mainly suffers from a somewhat lackluster villain after having just gotten away from Khan, and has some strange moments. But it's fun when it needs to be, and has Kirk experiencing real loss, which is rare. (Yes, he had just lost Spock, but since he gets him back in this movie, losing David is one of the few instances of real loss that sticks with the character.) thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Dec 13, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 22:04
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Steve Yun posted:"Now that's what I call... 
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Dec 13, 2012 22:22
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