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Doom is way better as an anchor, but he's right in that beam assists can be super helpful, the trick to playing without one with team BFF is basically never letting up pressure which is pretty hard to do against good players so it can definitely help. That said I don't think the wesker assist is really that useful for wolvie as most assists that have a reasonable amount of active time will allow for a pickup into fatal claw loop, including akuma's tatsu. Akuma is a good anchor but he's pretty dang hard to use in a lot of situations due to his minimal range on normals and kind of slow movement options, but his damage output with meter is really good so if you do land hits it's usually a fairly simple conversion. I personally play Wolvie/Vergil/Akuma because Vergil is too sick, generally meter neutral and tatsu can be used as part of his blockstrings to make his blocked stinger followups a bit safer/harder to deal with. Vergil also deals pretty well with the stuff that fudges up wolvie and I think that's fairly important for the 3rd wheel to the bros for life.
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Dec 13, 2012 14:16
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brian posted:Doom is way better as an anchor, but he's right in that beam assists can be super helpful, the trick to playing without one with team BFF is basically never letting up pressure which is pretty hard to do against good players so it can definitely help. That said I don't think the wesker assist is really that useful for wolvie as most assists that have a reasonable amount of active time will allow for a pickup into fatal claw loop, including akuma's tatsu. Perhaps I'm biased as I'm not a fan of Doom, but I think running him anchor is a mistake. His only hope is to get that one hit to corner carry where he can actually mix up on incoming with cross-up footdives. Now if you want to run Doom second, I can get behind that. You lose missiles/beam for your second character, but you gain someone who is probably a better character to run it back. Also, if you are running Wolvie on point that also gives you huge dhc damage off any fatal claw without having to worrying about dropping the loop.
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Dec 13, 2012 16:40
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I don't think we've been playing the same game then.
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Dec 13, 2012 16:51
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Doom is pretty easily top 3 and is really really good in almost any situation. I can't really fathom how anyone could get the idea that Akuma is better in any way. It's really, really not even close.
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Dec 13, 2012 17:11
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Brosnan posted:Doom is pretty easily top 3 and is really really good in almost any situation. I can't really fathom how anyone could get the idea that Akuma is better in any way. It's really, really not even close. I think that Doom is a better asset to any team, but the Doom/Akuma anchor question comes down to the matchup. I play Dorm/Morrigan/Doom and I would be much more worried of an Akuma left standing against my team than a Doom. Doom can't do much against Dorm or Morrigan when he's by himself, especially if they have a life lead. EDIT: Since we're talking about Doom anchors, any suggestions on getting in on people with a solo Doom. I've only recently added him to my team and find it difficult to get in on certain characters, mostly those that can zone effectively.
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Dec 13, 2012 17:19
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Brosnan posted:Doom is pretty easily top 3 and is really really good in almost any situation. I can't really fathom how anyone could get the idea that Akuma is better in any way. It's really, really not even close. It's not as clear cut as you're making it. Akuma is scarier in xfc lvl 3 than Doom, and as Anchor he can do fireball hyper xx xfc into a full combo from anywhere on the screen. Not to mentions his hypers actually do significant chip damage. Also his demon flips give him an incoming mixup that is 100x better than Doom's solo incoming. I think the bias is stemming from the fact that Doom is so much better assists-wise that we see a LOT of Doom comebacks as a result, really it's only been a year or so since JWong's Akuma was making solo comebacks left and right.
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Dec 13, 2012 18:43
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Tonight   Thursday December 13th 9PMEst/6PMPst irc://irc.synirc.net/sa-mvc3  PS3http://challonge.com/tournaments/signup/qcxsciov7r  xboxhttp://challonge.com/tournaments/signup/xbce8pb6u8 Y'all ain't ready
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Dec 13, 2012 19:10
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Doom assists are way better. Both Akuma and Doom are really good in XFC level 3. That being said, Akuma is a fuckton easier to use than Doom, especially if you're newer at the game, which is the original context for all of this. So yes, Akuma is a fine anchor choice if you're looking for an easier to play character that's still extremely scary. A really good anchor Doom has a lot more potential than a really good anchor Akuma, but you have to get to that level first.
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Dec 13, 2012 19:18
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Super Rad posted:Also his demon flips give him an incoming mixup that is 100x better than Doom's solo incoming. Yeah this is like completely, 100% wrong. Akuma is better if you aren't very good because he's a lot easier to use, but I would much rather deal with a single 50/50 with no real followup pressure if it gets blocked than Doom's snowball shitshow. Akuma can make comebacks provided people do stupid things; Doom can make them regardless.
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Dec 13, 2012 19:19
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Well, a Doom with X-Factor and one meter can destroy an entire team after one hit. Hell, a Doom with three meters can destroy an entire team by himself.
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Dec 13, 2012 19:58
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Brosnan posted:Doom can make them regardless. With what tools exactly? Please tell me what mixup solo Doom has that's any better than what Akuma has available, or how Doom can "keep the pressure going" in ways that Akuma can't. Akuma can definitely keep pressure up in xfc, and the demon flip mixup has several followups, including doing more 50/50s, or going into high/low with his standing overhead. When have you seen a Doom comeback that wasn't fueled by the opponent making a mistake like pressing buttons and getting footdived? E: And just so you don't get the wrong idea, I feel that Doom is a better anchor for most teams, but he has as few ways of opening up an opponent solo as Akuma, it's always going to rely on a mistake. Super Rad fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Dec 13, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 20:14
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Super Rad posted:When have you seen a Doom comeback that wasn't fueled by the opponent making a mistake like pressing buttons and getting footdived? Praise be to the footdive. 
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Dec 13, 2012 20:19
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agreed on the doom being better in every department
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Dec 13, 2012 20:43
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Doom is so much better than akuma mainly because doom has far better mobility. His mix-up game is a lot more nuanced than akuma, and he has far more options on incoming characters. He doesn't give a gently caress about push-block and can convert off any throw into death, which is extremely important in this game. I'm not saying akuma is bad in x-factor by any means, but doom is just so much better in almost every regard. I will say however that akuma does give doom a hard time if he has the life lead since fireballs are kind of annoying if doom has to get in. However, they both pale in comparison to the god that is xfactor 3 devil trigger vergil.
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Dec 13, 2012 20:50
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I think solo Doom is pretty bad even in XF3. He gets out zoned by anyone who can zone. If he's got meter who cares? He's not gonna kill your team with 100k (or whatever tiny amount it is) chip from finger lasers. As long as you don't stand directly under him and press buttons he can't do poo poo. I would rather play anchor Sentinel than anchor Doom. That said, Doom's fast enough in XF3 to be dangerous and he can easily kill a team if he gets hits. Akuma isn't the most amazing character solo either but at least he's got that beam hyper so that he can do something with his meter. At the very least you shouldn't be calling assists against him since he can beam hyper XF beam hyper to kill your assist. Without meter he's worse but I usually think of solo anchors as having access to at least 2 bars. Dren fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Dec 13, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 21:16
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So yesterday I went to my local arcade and played quite a few games, and I kept getting blown up by this Hawkeye player. I play Nova/Dormammu/Task and I forget his specific team, but he had Captain America/Hawkeye/Strider, and man, I've never played a good Hawkeye, but he just completely shut down my whole team. Nova doesn't have much of an answer to Hawkeye's screen control, Dormammu has no time to establish his own screen control, and Taskmaster's arrows are slower than Hawkeye's. Also, Hawkeye's mixups confused the hell out of me. Anyone got any good tips for going up against a good Hawkeye? I thought about picking up Hawkeye but his combos are very counter-intuitive to me. I'd still like to have him because my team would work just as well with Hawkeye as it does with Task, and it'd be nice to have a pocket Hawkeye. dorkasaurus_rex fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Dec 20, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 21:25
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Ybrik posted:Tonight Signed up! I'm-a gonna ween >B^]
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Dec 13, 2012 23:13
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Jmcrofts posted:Signed up! I'm-a gonna ween >B^] Should i use my anchor doom teams? 
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Dec 13, 2012 23:34
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Jmcrofts posted:Signed up! I'm-a gonna ween >B^] Oh really? Well guess what  gently caress Haggar.
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Dec 13, 2012 23:53
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Gonna get bodied but whatever, I've got nothing to do tonight and I've got that marvel itch.
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Dec 14, 2012 00:00
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Brosnan posted:Doom is pretty easily top 3 and is really really good in almost any situation. I can't really fathom how anyone could get the idea that Akuma is better in any way. It's really, really not even close. How can he be top 3 when the top 4 consists of zero, viper, vergil, and mags? You'd actually argue he is better than ANY of those characters overall?
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Dec 14, 2012 00:18
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I am in no way ready to put Viper in the top 5, personally.
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Dec 14, 2012 00:21
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Countblanc posted:I am in no way ready to put Viper in the top 5, personally. Even if one believes that to be true that still leaves zero, vergil, and mags.
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Dec 14, 2012 00:22
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Countblanc posted:I am in no way ready to put Viper in the top 5, personally. Totally agree. Quite frankly, she's lucky if she's top 10.
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Dec 14, 2012 01:09
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GoodCleanFun posted:How can he be top 3 when the top 4 consists of zero, viper, vergil, and mags? You'd actually argue he is better than ANY of those characters overall? Uh, how many teams do you see Viper on? She's a very good point character with a team behind her and that's about it, and it's not because only Marlinpie has execution good enough to use her or some such nonsense. Now how many teams do you see Doom on? 
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Dec 14, 2012 01:44
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How many teams did we see Sentinel on in vanilla.....
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Dec 14, 2012 02:05
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Jmcrofts posted:How many teams did we see Sentinel on in vanilla..... Quite a few until he lost a third of his health?
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Dec 14, 2012 02:08
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Quite a few even after that.
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Dec 14, 2012 02:12
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Ya'll have not fought a good Viper if you don't think she's potentially a top 3 point character. The precision required to use her tools is greater than a lot of characters, but when you fight someone who can use them you get to experience why so many people rate the character so highly. I legitimately have more trouble fighting someone who is competent with her than any other competent top tier character I've played against. In the state where there are an absurd amount of competent top tier team players. (although that's more due to my playstyle and my team's playstyle) When it comes to overall team structure, Vergil and Doom are tops bar none- they provide fantastic assists, DHCs/TACs and point characters. The question on what you're judging character rankings by is pretty important in this game since there's a difference between top overall characters, top point characters and top support characters. The thing is, with how quickly games can snowball due to how the top point characters work it's not quite right to always judge based on 'overall team contribution'. See: Zero and Viper for this kinda stuff. Fereydun fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Dec 14, 2012 |
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Dec 14, 2012 02:19
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Brosnan posted:Uh, how many teams do you see Viper on? She's a very good point character with a team behind her and that's about it, and it's not because only Marlinpie has execution good enough to use her or some such nonsense. Doom is on more teams because he works with more characters and is less execution heavy than viper. That has nothing to do with viper's potential. Marlinpie isn't the only person running her successfully. Viper play from drew grimey and kbeast won the recent NorCal vs SoCal exhibition. I'll ask my original question again. How is doom top 3? Is he better than zero, vergil, and mags?
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Dec 14, 2012 02:24
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I'd say better than mags but not vergil or zero.
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Dec 14, 2012 02:27
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Woahhh... if we're talking about on point Doom is not even CLOSE to Mags. His assist is obviously way better but on point they are leagues apart.
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Dec 14, 2012 02:36
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Apart from the viper thing, I thought we were talking overall, where I think doom edges out mags (though hypergrav assist is pretty darn good). On point you see characters like wolverine up there.
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Dec 14, 2012 02:40
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Signed up with my new cheaper and shittier internet for the first time, so I apologize for any lag in advance.
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Dec 14, 2012 02:44
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Most everyone is going to have a different reason for ranking characters where they rank them. Personally, I see it as Zero, Vergil, then a group of Viper/Morrigan/Magneto/Doom that I have no real problem with anyone putting in any order for the next few spots. Dorm and Spencer somewhere in there too but I don't think either should be considered third, and Wolvie is in the area too. Viper is up there with Zero for being able to kill teams after one hit, Morrigan is part of one of the best duos in Morri/Doom and is the key character for the winningest player right now, Magneto does so many things well, and Doom provides two incredible assists with solid point play. Wozbo posted:Apart from the viper thing, I thought we were talking overall, where I think doom edges out mags (though hypergrav assist is pretty darn good).
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Dec 14, 2012 03:15
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If you NEED an assist in order to murk whole teams (Viper w/ lockdown assist like Ammy; Morrigan w/ Doom or Strider), then you ain't Top 5 in my book.
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Dec 14, 2012 03:22
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.....Magneto with Psylocke? 
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Dec 14, 2012 03:24
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I use the hyper grav assis. I'm trying to be better, so I'm using Viscant's learner team but with hyper grav. It does wonders whenever mags isn't on point and you hit anything. It puts just about every combo into the 800k range (assuming standard starters instead of the most perfect jh into h s into whatever bullcrap). Doom gets the upball super from st.h, and sent gets to do hyper drones into plasma ball if need be.
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Dec 14, 2012 03:26
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Any of you guys on Xbox? We could do a post tourny lobby 
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Dec 14, 2012 03:53
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Shiki Dan posted:If you NEED an assist in order to murk whole teams (Viper w/ lockdown assist like Ammy; Morrigan w/ Doom or Strider), then you ain't Top 5 in my book. Marvel is a team game this distinction is worthless. Every character gets better with assists and some assists make poo poo completely unfair (take Zero, who is already bullshit, and give him Jam Session and he is now KING OF BULLSHIT MOUNTAIN). Especially now that a lot of people are seeing the meta in terms of two man shells rather than individual characters. Morridoom, Ammydoom, and ___ May Cry are far, far more threatening and more practical to discuss than the characters individually. Like was said above talking about single characters gets tricky because you can classify characters in different ways and get pretty different tier lists.
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Dec 14, 2012 04:07
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