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CivilDisobedience posted:No way! At least it was first taught to me in Judo as an attack from turtle, often to be followed by an armpit armlock. I really don't know how it's possible I was never thought this :|
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Dec 11, 2012 03:14
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KingColliwog posted:I really don't know how it's possible I was never thought this :| Probably because it has a low chance of working against someone trying to take your back from the turtle. The guy on top isn't going to grab so low around your body like that, he's going to be working his hand high up, between your upper arm and the back of your head (I forget if that's a quarter or half nelson) to put forearm pressure on your head and chest pressure on your back while he tries to spin for a back take. Or, maybe working high up for a wacky collar choke. Remember when you were initially shown the Kimura from a low reverse bearhug around the waist? It works well because grabbing low around the waist gives you room and leverage to hip out and go above the hand and under the arm. If the bearhug was right under your armpit, it would be a much more difficult fight. This is kind of the same principle. With the sitout from turtle, whatever side they overhooked is the one you capture with the opposite arm, same side knee up, thrust the opposite foot perpendicular to both of you, same side elbow the sky, and switch your hips so that you're looking at the ceiling. I used to be so excited to take the back that I would only switch my hips about a quarter of the way before trying to un-switch them and work on the back.
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Dec 11, 2012 05:33
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Watch more Big Nog fights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=doJPc2rsO10#t=290s
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Dec 11, 2012 05:47
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Alastor_the_Stylish posted:Probably because it has a low chance of working against someone trying to take your back from the turtle. The guy on top isn't going to grab so low around your body like that, he's going to be working his hand high up, between your upper arm and the back of your head (I forget if that's a quarter or half nelson) to put forearm pressure on your head and chest pressure on your back while he tries to spin for a back take. Or, maybe working high up for a wacky collar choke. Here's a better angle shot of a good, tight turtle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yYvR7ksl3g in case you're thinking of something else. I get the impression from your post that you're used to sinking nelsons on turtling opponents with ease, but that should be nearly impossible if they're staying tight and rolling out from under you when you put weight on them, so I'm guessing you don't encounter many people who use the position to its full potential. Also, it really doesn't matter how high under your armpit the sprawler's overhooking arm is, with your far arm protecting your neck and waiting to block their hand as it comes in, the armlock and sweep are both fairly 'high percentage'. This stuff consistently works for me against Judoka, wrestlers, and BJJ guys alike. KC- IIRC this stuff came up in my classes as re-counters to the rice bale reversal, maybe you guys didn't work that one since it's so unpopular these days? CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Dec 11, 2012 |
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Dec 11, 2012 11:37
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That is a very nice turtle. I do not work with a gi, so there are probably technical things I have no consideration for. Most people I work with don't cross their arms, they just put their forearms vertically on their chest. My go to from face to face turtle is either same side quarter nelson turnover or same side wrist grab, opposite underhook to figure four grip, hop the knees over their back, and belly down armbar.
Alastor_the_Stylish fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Dec 11, 2012 |
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Dec 11, 2012 16:30
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It's so weird, I had never seen the sit out and my judo coach tought it to us tonight, spooky. He showed it as a way to get a waki gatame arm-bar though, but the movement was the same. very similar to this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uc_2VR2D9I KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Dec 12, 2012 |
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Dec 12, 2012 03:06
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Yeah, exactly, the armpit armlock! Ude hishigi waki gatame. That's real weird timing hah. Maybe he's lurking?
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Dec 12, 2012 03:35
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CivilDisobedience posted:Yeah, exactly, the armpit armlock! Ude hishigi waki gatame. That's real weird timing hah. Maybe he's lurking? haha as awesome as it would be, he doesn't speak a word of english so it's not possible. Super weird timing, yet awesome because I got plenty of practice/corrections on the move. It's definitely going into my arsenal, this thing is good and I needed more stuff to do out of turtle anyway
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Dec 12, 2012 03:40
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non-pajama grapplers: What is the technical aspect of the suplex? I mean once you have the under-hooks it looks you just apply tremendous physical power but surely there are some little technical aspects since you don't see guys pulling it off too often. Some guys and I were talking how we'd love to learn some greco-roman at the bjj gym because it seems easier for non-midgets than free/folkstyle but its hard to find teachers or instructional DVDs.
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Dec 17, 2012 22:56
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Xguard86 posted:non-pajama grapplers: What is the technical aspect of the suplex? I mean once you have the under-hooks it looks you just apply tremendous physical power but surely there are some little technical aspects since you don't see guys pulling it off too often. I am in no way a grappler of any kind, but does this help?
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Dec 17, 2012 23:01
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Xguard86 posted:non-pajama grapplers: What is the technical aspect of the suplex? I mean once you have the under-hooks it looks you just apply tremendous physical power but surely there are some little technical aspects since you don't see guys pulling it off too often. Whoah there buddy, you think us pajama guys can't suplex? Think again! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz-AaNUfWNc&t=153s
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Dec 18, 2012 01:32
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The subtlety that someone who primarily fights in missionary position may miss is that you've got to roll your hips beneath theirs in order to execute the suplex. This is also true for many other standing throws. Pull their center of gravity over yours and the secrets of the suplex are within your grasp. I love how in LobsterMobs link the guy literally dry humps his partner's rear end for about 15 seconds and it's totally not weird. No one believes me when I tell them just how homoerotic fighting is. Novum fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Dec 18, 2012 |
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Dec 18, 2012 04:25
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Novum posted:The subtlety that someone who primarily fights in missionary position may miss is that you've got to roll your hips beneath theirs in order to execute the suplex. This is also true for many other standing throws. Yeah there's no non gay way to do it. I was taught to lock my hands around their belly button area, drop my hips as i tighten my grip keeping my hips close to the base of their rear end - lift with my legs keeping my back straight like a squat and explode through in an arcing motion. Just make sure your head is out of the way.
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Dec 18, 2012 09:21
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Novum posted:I love how in LobsterMobs link the guy literally dry humps his partner's rear end for about 15 seconds and it's totally not weird. No one believes me when I tell them just how homoerotic fighting is. Grow up.
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Dec 18, 2012 09:54
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LobsterMobster posted:I am in no way a grappler of any kind, but does this help? Seriously how do people take these fall repeatedly while drilling? After a couple of Ura Nage I'm done and this just looks 10x more painful and dangerous.
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Dec 18, 2012 14:34
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Im just a white belt who's a giant pussy after getting injured once, but am I the only one who thinks only an rear end in a top hat would pull off a suplex in a grappling comp? I mean, MMA I understand because your intention is also to cause lots of damage that way but, throwing a suplex seems to open up a giant scramble after as you have to flip over and get ontop of the guy. Once you get their back, wouldnt just a wrestling style slide fall back (I dont even know what its called, I've drilled it off an arm drag, where you baseball slide behind the guy to trip him down into side control) just be 1.)safer, 2.)more effective and 3.)easier to learn?
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Dec 18, 2012 19:11
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swagger like us posted:Im just a white belt who's a giant pussy after getting injured once, but am I the only one who thinks only an rear end in a top hat would pull off a suplex in a grappling comp? A lot of competitions ban slamming people, however if its allowed in the rules you can't really be pissed if someone does it.
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Dec 18, 2012 19:22
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MycroftXXX posted:A lot of competitions ban slamming people, however if its allowed in the rules you can't really be pissed if someone does it. Banning slams just means that you can't jump into it. High arcing throws are still explicitly allowed. I've seen massive Harai Goshi and Uchi Mata in BJJ comps and thrown a (bad) twisting suplex myself in a comp. Obviously judging is going to be different for different ruling bodies but the only times I've seem slams called were guys busting triangles rampage style and once or twice when Uki hit the deep double, picked Tori up, and turned the corner on one foot to come down harder.
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Dec 18, 2012 22:21
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KingColliwog posted:Seriously how do people take these fall repeatedly while drilling? After a couple of Ura Nage I'm done and this just looks 10x more painful and dangerous. Break falls and non wooden floors? I have no worries.
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Dec 19, 2012 04:16
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KingColliwog posted:Seriously how do people take these fall repeatedly while drilling? After a couple of Ura Nage I'm done and this just looks 10x more painful and dangerous. they just have terrible joints and backs 20 years later.
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Dec 19, 2012 16:24
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BlindSite posted:Break falls and non wooden floors? The most comfortable falls I've ever taken were on a firm 1.5 inch roll-up wrestling mat over those hollow/foam filled wooden floors dancers use. The worst was tatami mats over concrete.
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Dec 19, 2012 16:46
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Would anyone have suggestions on something I could watch to improve my side control? Just more basics or anything? I feel like my leg position or top pressure is off and am looking anywhere for a solution.
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Dec 19, 2012 17:35
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BlindSite posted:Break falls and non wooden floors? It's not like you can breakfall much from a suplex. like how do you breakfall from that thing :  ? I've gotten hit with Ura Nage which is pretty close to a supplex and it's never a particularly pleasant experience. May be I'm just too old, could probably have handled them better when I was 20. Xguard86 posted:they just have terrible joints and backs 20 years later. Yeah that's what I'm thinking too TheKingslayer posted:Would anyone have suggestions on something I could watch to improve my side control? Just more basics or anything? Describe what you do (legs and where you apply the pressure and stuff) and it will probably be easier to correct what you might be doing wrong.
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Dec 19, 2012 19:19
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Underhook on the far side. Near side arm around the head and connected with a Gable Grip. We'll assume I'm on the right side of my opponent. So my left leg is extended with my right leg driving into the hip. I'm applying pressure with my left shoulder to the jaw and my chest down on their chest. My head is facing toward their face and tight to the shoulder. At least, this is what I assume I'm doing. I could be doing it wrong.
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Dec 19, 2012 20:03
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That all sounds okay. You may just need some little changes or maybe there's an error you aren't aware of. I don't know if the Internet can help unless you post a picture or something.
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Dec 19, 2012 20:45
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TheKingslayer posted:Underhook on the far side. Near side arm around the head and connected with a Gable Grip. We'll assume I'm on the right side of my opponent. So my left leg is extended with my right leg driving into the hip. Are you also sinking your hips to the floor? If your hips are high you might feel like you're pushing down on their sternum harder, but you're actually reducing the maximum amount of pressure you can create. Remember that you're trying to make him carry your weight, so you're making it easier on him if you're carrying any of it.
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Dec 19, 2012 21:56
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Usually the answer to side control problems is to tighten that poo poo up.
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Dec 19, 2012 22:00
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ya thats actually a nice point, you shouldn't feel tired or strained just sitting in side, it should be relaxed. If you're bear hugging with all your might its not correct.
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Dec 19, 2012 22:01
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TheKingslayer posted:Underhook on the far side. Near side arm around the head and connected with a Gable Grip. We'll assume I'm on the right side of my opponent. So my left leg is extended with my right leg driving into the hip. are you hugging the guy tight? Because you shouldn't be. A lot of people sort of pull the guy into them to "add pressure" but you really don't need to since it actually reduce the pressure you put on the guy. Obviously you need to actually hold him, but you should be able to spend 15 minutes in side control and not be tired. Also, are your hips high or low? Do some sort of sprawly thing with your hips. How does the opponent gets out of your side control? Do they turn you over or do they just regain guard?
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Dec 20, 2012 01:00
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TheKingslayer posted:Underhook on the far side. Near side arm around the head and connected with a Gable Grip. We'll assume I'm on the right side of my opponent. So my left leg is extended with my right leg driving into the hip. Personally I keep that other arm out to post or to fight their arm. Senor P. fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Dec 20, 2012 |
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Dec 20, 2012 03:13
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What doesn't feel right about it? Are people escaping from it too easy? If so, how are they escaping?
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Dec 20, 2012 06:06
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Senor P. posted:In this specific case, I'd say don't gable grip. I like to grab the pants with the arm he's using to underhook. Helps control their hips. Of course, I'm a terrible white belt, so take my advice with many grains of salt. Edit: Gi, obviously. I have no clue about no gi.
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Dec 20, 2012 18:56
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KingColliwog posted:are you hugging the guy tight? Because you shouldn't be. This is not something I'd thought of before and I think it'll help me out.
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Dec 21, 2012 03:43
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Rids! posted:What doesn't feel right about it? Are people escaping from it too easy? If so, how are they escaping? I know my description is a little vague but the questions you're asking and advice you're giving is awesome, it's making me think about all the little things I do with it. The main way they seem to escape is just simple shrimping to get the knee back in. Now it usually never gets them their guard back, I can smash back through, but I end up making it a constant struggle until they slip up and allow mount or back or they get tired and I go where I want. Which I guess isn't terrible, but I'm burning too much energy and I know it can be easier.
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Dec 21, 2012 19:48
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Get good at moving to broken side control/north south so you can have a cool stifling Jeff monson esque top game. If you arent in the Gi its tricky to hold people in side control for long periods of time if they are any good, or stronger than you or slippery or all of the above. Use it as a transition
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Dec 21, 2012 21:11
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Ladies and Gentlemen, the greatest BJJ picture of all time: 
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Jan 4, 2013 06:16
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That is really good jaja, no black belt though ;/
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Jan 5, 2013 08:21
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Alastor_the_Stylish posted:Ladies and Gentlemen, the greatest BJJ picture of all time: Oh god, I have that same shirt.
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Jan 5, 2013 08:36
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xba4HKplHQA&hd=1
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Jan 6, 2013 07:56
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poo poo this owns and makes me feel like a tool for not taking classes last year. Also Luke is a Clown. edit: poo poo the way he reacts to his second match. Can't imagine how he grapples at all w/those big shoes and rubber nose Chexoid fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Jan 6, 2013 |
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Jan 6, 2013 08:41
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