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Xguard86 posted:haha, alright buddy. Wish we could all live in this utopian world were every person on earth drives with F1 focus all the time. Of course I have, but I don't let it distract me. Which is exactly why I don't have a handsfree set and don't answer my phone while I'm driving. There is nothing that cannot wait until I get home. If it is that serious, cars with sirens and flashing lights will find me. Don't make excuses for not giving a poo poo about driving safely.
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Dec 21, 2012 16:55
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KozmoNaut posted:Of course I have, but I don't let it distract me. But that does affect your driving. Even if you're 100% tuned in, there will be days you're going to be slower or your mind wanders. Reaction times are compromised sometimes and you can only hope that day isn't the day that extra tenth of a second matters. I agree that people shouldn't rely on their car to save their dumb asses but being a fallible human I would appreciate a system that gives me a safety net and I understand that advertising for that system is going to show it working which means showing mistakes.
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Dec 21, 2012 17:08
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KozmoNaut posted:Of course I have, but I don't let it distract me. Right, because he's not at 100% at every hour of the day, it's "not giving a poo poo about driving safety." I very much give a poo poo about driving safety since I routinely have to fix what a split second of distraction can cause, and yet I have been required to do things like drive into the hospital when extremely tired. I'm glad that you're apparently able to live a life where there are never any distractions, never any emergencies, and never any extenuating circumstances, but most people in the world don't. None of us are saying that it's okay to add unnecessary distractions to commutes like phones and the like, but be realistic.
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Dec 21, 2012 17:11
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KozmoNaut posted:Then you shouldn't have been driving, period. That's precisely what friends*, family*, busses, trains, taxis etc. etc. are for. To provide you with transport in cases where you either cannot driver, or at least cannot drive safely. First of all, friends and family are often the cause of the distraction in the first place as well. I get what you're saying, but don't forget that in much of North America, even big cities, there isn't a viable public transport option and taxis are very expensive. There has been many a morning after a long night shift when I lived in Toronto that I've driven home severely impaired. I would have loved a car that drove me home, because I knew what I was doing was dangerous. My alternatives all either involved carpooling with similarly impaired shift workers or taking busses that don't run on a useful schedule 24/7 (and bear in mind "minimum rest" is a European thing, 8 hours is all you're allotted if you're lucky in much of America, and that includes your commute). All Human Factors training does is make you aware of the pressures you're under. But when your options are paying your mortgage or quitting your job, guess what gets filed under "acceptable risk"? If there's no excuse for bad driving, then bring on the robot cars because bad driving is a reality, excusable or not.
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Dec 21, 2012 17:28
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My reasoning is that it's all or nothing. Either drive your own car or get an automated car. These kinds of stopgap hand-holding measures by VW, Honda etc. only serve to make people less attentive drivers. We'd all be much better off if they'd just get an automated car instead. This of course requires automated cars to be available, but they're drat close. I know people drive impaired all the time, I did it some time ago and afterwards I told myself "never again". It was not a pleasant experience at all. But if anyone does drive impaired, they should be ready to accept full responsibility, no matter what happens. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Dec 22, 2012 |
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Dec 22, 2012 00:48
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KozmoNaut posted:My reasoning is that it's all or nothing. Either drive your own car or get an automated car. These kinds of stopgap hand-holding measures by VW, Honda etc. only serve to make people less attentive drivers. We'd all be much better off if they'd just get an automated car instead. I obviously don't have any numbers, but I bet when automatic transmissions came out, it didn't do much for raising accident rates.
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Dec 22, 2012 00:53
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kimbo305 posted:I obviously don't have any numbers, but I bet when automatic transmissions came out, it didn't do much for raising accident rates. I'd say that was too long ago to really make a judgement
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Dec 22, 2012 00:57
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KozmoNaut posted:My reasoning is that it's all or nothing. Either drive your own car or get an automated car. These kinds of stopgap hand-holding measures by VW, Honda etc. only serve to make people less attentive drivers. We'd all be much better off if they'd just get an automated car instead. Yeah I agree. All this ABS, traction control, stability control, auto headlights, wipers, auto transmissions, daytime running lights, etc crap should just be gone, so we can go back to when driving a car was far safer. Arguing against things that make cars safer not only for the driver but for people around the driver is just silly. I am all for these improvements that make cars safer for everyone. Just because you drive 100% of the time with hawk like focus perfectly doesn't mean that you can react faster to an incident that a safety system on a car can, or even that you never make mistakes.
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Dec 22, 2012 01:03
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Stealth Like posted:Yeah I agree. All this ABS, traction control, stability control, auto headlights, wipers, auto transmissions, daytime running lights, etc crap should just be gone, so we can go back to when driving a car was far safer. Thats all cool with me. It has a lot to do with being too cheap to buy a new car, and being a mechanic so i can keep old vehicles as daily drivers without huge cost, but nothing i drive has anything auto but the transmission. I realized a long time ago the car companies dont give a drat what i think, so it really dont matter if i like automated systems in vehicles or not. Time will tell if they provide real safety benefits, or just dumb drivers down so the overall accident rate is the same.
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Dec 22, 2012 03:39
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Stealth Like posted:Yeah I agree. All this ABS, traction control, stability control, auto headlights, wipers, auto transmissions, daytime running lights, etc crap should just be gone, so we can go back to when driving a car was far safer. I think that, although these features do improve safety in general, I'm slightly afraid of people relying on them. When the TCS kicks in during the course of normal driving, you should evaluate what led to it, and if it was your fault, evaluate what you did so you can avoid it in the future (or at least know what to expect if you do it intentionally). If you carry on, fat, dumb and happy, then I think it leads to bad driving habits. Having narrowly avoided being sideswiped yesterday by someone who didn't bother checking their blind spot, I'm especially concerned about the blind-spot warning lights that some carmakers are using. Again, I think if it's used as a "last line of defence" it's ultimately a positive thing, but the idea of people relying on it and using it as an excuse not to use their mirrors and a blindspot check scares me, especially if they then switch to driving a vehicle which is not so equipped.
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Dec 22, 2012 04:39
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PT6A posted:I think that, although these features do improve safety in general, I'm slightly afraid of people relying on them. When the TCS kicks in during the course of normal driving, you should evaluate what led to it, and if it was your fault, evaluate what you did so you can avoid it in the future (or at least know what to expect if you do it intentionally). If you carry on, fat, dumb and happy, then I think it leads to bad driving habits. The problem is that the argument is that when people know that they have these safeties, they become worse drivers; but lets be honest, most people are already terrible drivers, and anything that helps them is for the better. Was the car that nearly sideswiped you equipped with a system that detects this and warns the driver?
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Dec 22, 2012 04:54
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Stealth Like posted:The problem is that the argument is that when people know that they have these safeties, they become worse drivers; but lets be honest, most people are already terrible drivers, and anything that helps them is for the better. Was the car that nearly sideswiped you equipped with a system that detects this and warns the driver? I think the real question is was the car that almost sideswiped him even equipped with side mirrors that werent held on by duct tape?
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Dec 22, 2012 05:10
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Stealth Like posted:The problem is that the argument is that when people know that they have these safeties, they become worse drivers; but lets be honest, most people are already terrible drivers, and anything that helps them is for the better. Was the car that nearly sideswiped you equipped with a system that detects this and warns the driver? No, and perhaps if it had been, the driver would have noticed before attempting to switch lanes into me. I admit that. What concerns me the most is someone switching from this system (or, to use another example, a car with a backup camera) to a car without that aid, without changing their lovely habits. Ultimately, until we get cars that drive themselves, the answer is not going to be technological; instead, we need better driver training, and better enforcement of driver proficiency standards.
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Dec 22, 2012 05:31
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drgitlin posted:While I get what you're saying, that's not really 100% true - look at what GM's done with the Corvette since 1999. What's more, that's been with a single team and even a fairly constant driver line up. GT class wins and overall victory are two very different things entirely. Bob NewSCART posted:Why are you so confident that if any American company even lifted it's finger it would absolutely destroy all these European companies who have been doing this poo poo since the start? They wouldn't necessarily be successful, but we'll never know unless they try (they won't, they don't care).
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Dec 22, 2012 05:39
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PT6A posted:No, and perhaps if it had been, the driver would have noticed before attempting to switch lanes into me. I admit that. What concerns me the most is someone switching from this system (or, to use another example, a car with a backup camera) to a car without that aid, without changing their lovely habits. Ultimately, until we get cars that drive themselves, the answer is not going to be technological; instead, we need better driver training, and better enforcement of driver proficiency standards. So they had the lovely habit, the car that had the aid saved them from getting in that wreck, and then they switched to a car that didn't because they went back in time or something, and then got into a wreck. So instead of 2 wrecks they got into 1, so that's a bad thing? Yeah, driver education needs to be increased because it's laughably bad, by why is that and technological advancement mutually exclusive? Why can there not be both? People are, well, human, and every single one of us, yes including you, makes mistakes sometimes, and why is a system designed to make us aware of those mistakes and keep accidents from happening bad?
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Dec 22, 2012 05:40
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Could we shut the gently caress up about this automated driving/safety features spergfest and get back to new cars?
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Dec 22, 2012 08:03
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Peugeot seem to be fighting their way back from a dull lineup with relative success, especially now that they're finally ditching the snorefest that was the 308. The 508 is a great car and the 208 has been well-recieved just about everywhere. So now they're putting out a 208 GTI and making references to its 205 GTI heritage. 200hp/255nm turbo 1.6L co-developed with BMW, 0-100kph in <7 seconds, 6-speed manual gearbox, 16.5km/l (39mpg) and styling that's miles and miles better than just about everything else they've made for the last 10 years or so.   
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Dec 22, 2012 17:24
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KozmoNaut posted:Peugeot seem to be fighting their way back from a dull lineup with relative success, especially now that they're finally ditching the snorefest that was the 308. The 508 is a great car and the 208 has been well-recieved just about everywhere. Hehe, I actually had a bet with my youngest son, Peter, about how long it would take you to post this. I said before Christmas, and I won. Yeah, the new 208 is pretty amazing. I hope, I can squeeze one into the my wife-car budget.
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Dec 22, 2012 17:46
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Me & the wife think the new 208 looks like a crap copy of a Kia. Saw it in salmon pink the other day, it looks like a vaginal appliance.
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Dec 22, 2012 18:58
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Cakefool posted:Me & the wife think the new 208 looks like a crap copy of a Kia. Saw it in salmon pink the other day, it looks like a vaginal appliance. Well, if she's too tight for fun, you might want to try a red Miata.
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Dec 22, 2012 19:08
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Cakefool posted:Me & the wife think the new 208 looks like a crap copy of a Kia. Look at it and the Rio side by side and the Rio looks like the cheap knockoff. It's in the small details, like the way the wing mirrors attach to the body, it's quite uncanny.
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Dec 22, 2012 19:36
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Nothing too surprising, but the Camaro looks to gain the LS7 for 2014. http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/21/2014-chevrolet-camaro-to-be-available-with-ls7-v8/ I wonder how they'll phase the LT1 motor in?
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Dec 23, 2012 07:18
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The headlights/grill/window trim/the entire interior are particularly hideous on that car but I don't know anything about peugot so I have nothing to compare it to.
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Dec 23, 2012 08:18
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kimbo305 posted:Nothing too surprising, but the Camaro looks to gain the LS7 for 2014. It starts with the C7 Corvette. Chevy has always been good at trickle-down stuff, so expect a slightly de-tuned version of it in the SS Camaro when it gets refreshed in the next year or two.
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Dec 23, 2012 14:10
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If they put the LS7 in it they would HAVEto call it the Z28
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Dec 23, 2012 14:24
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Not exactly a 'new' car anymore, but I finally went and sat in a Focus ST2. The Recaro seats are significantly better than the stock seats in the ST1 and worth the upgrade price. Overall the driving position and feel of the car is pretty amazing for ~$25k car that, by all accounts, is as fun and fast as the Focus ST is.
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Dec 23, 2012 23:33
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Well some apparently official renders of the new C7 leaked out. I'm hoping the car looks better in real life but the rear certainly is a bit cluttered for my tastes.: http://www.leftlanenews.com/leaked-again-2014-chevrolet-corvette-c7.html Edit: vv no, no rear seats in Corvettes. They just have a lot of trunk space, but the seats can be pushed right up against that area if you're tall. davebo fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 18:09
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davebo posted:Well some apparently official renders of the new C7 leaked out. I'm hoping the car looks better in real life but the rear certainly is a bit cluttered for my tastes.: 
grover fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 18:28
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loving squircle taillights. They just don't look good.
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Dec 24, 2012 18:50
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That is the ugliest Camaro I've ever seen.
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Dec 24, 2012 18:55
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davebo posted:Well some apparently official renders of the new C7 leaked out. I'm hoping the car looks better in real life but the rear certainly is a bit cluttered for my tastes.: The rear end looks terrible and busy, just like on the concepts. I guess wraparound glass was too expensive this time or something.
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Dec 24, 2012 19:01
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Cream_Filling posted:The rear end looks terrible and busy, just like on the concepts. I guess wraparound glass was too expensive this time or something. The upside to all this is that if they reveal the full car and I don't like the looks, I'll just spend the next few years looking for the best deal I can get on a C6 Z06 and jump on it once my Optima is paid off. Frankly though the flat rear window is the least of my concerns. Those curved ones are a pain to squeegee off anyway.
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Dec 24, 2012 19:26
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kimbo305 posted:Nothing too surprising, but the Camaro looks to gain the LS7 for 2014. If the RPO codes are correct, the 2014 Camaro still has the LS3. According to the CAW, production of the 6th gen Camaro starts late 2015 early 2016. So, the 5th gen Camaro might never get the LT1 unless they sneak it in for the final model year. LS7 seems like a nice consolation prize. Also, the Camaro will be more powerful than the Corvette until the 7th gen ZR1 comes out.
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Dec 24, 2012 21:58
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vx15i posted:Also, the Camaro will be more powerful than the Corvette until the 7th gen ZR1 comes out. Unless they also discontinue the ZL-1 as a one-year model. I assume it's been selling well enough to preclude that, but there has been a nice white one sitting on a lot since the late fall near me...
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Dec 24, 2012 22:05
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davebo posted:The upside to all this is that if they reveal the full car and I don't like the looks, I'll just spend the next few years looking for the best deal I can get on a C6 Z06 and jump on it once my Optima is paid off. Frankly though the flat rear window is the least of my concerns. Those curved ones are a pain to squeegee off anyway. Well, it's not the fact that it's flat, but rather the really clashing lines for the flat panels and generally poor execution of the rear. It looks normal in profile, but from the 3/4 angle, it looks really bad because nothing lines up or makes sense and the C pillar is super thick and has a nasty shape. I want to make a guess about too much computer design or something because all the shapes are boxy and weird. All the detailing like the taillights and the that centerline quad exhaust look pretty awful, too.
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Dec 24, 2012 23:26
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What is it with French car manufacturers and weird dashes?
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Dec 27, 2012 16:52
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Mordred posted:What is it with French car manufacturers and weird dashes? You answered your own question.
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Dec 27, 2012 17:02
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Devyl posted:It starts with the C7 Corvette. Chevy has always been good at trickle-down stuff, so expect a slightly de-tuned version of it in the SS Camaro when it gets refreshed in the next year or two. Yeah, I wouldn't expect the fifth gen Camaro to get a LT1; the only times that GM will make a significant change like that within a given generation is if the refresh isn't happening in the next year, it seems. Last two times around, the '92 third gen Camaro kept the L98 while the '92 Corvette got the LT1, which appeared in the '93 fourth gen Camaro. Then, when the LS1 came out with the C5, the Camaro got it a year later in '98 because there was no replacement platform planned yet. I would wager the LS7 in the Camaro is as much about maximizing use of their hand-built engine line as anything else. If the C5 and C6 introductions are to be believed, the first year for the C7 will be 'base' engine cars only, with the Z06/ZR1 not showing up until at least the second year of production. This leaves a lot of capacity currently used to build LS7s and LS9s.
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Dec 27, 2012 20:07
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Mordred posted:What is it with French car manufacturers and weird dashes? Looks good to me?
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Dec 28, 2012 09:43
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IOwnCalculus posted:Yeah, I wouldn't expect the fifth gen Camaro to get a LT1; the only times that GM will make a significant change like that within a given generation is if the refresh isn't happening in the next year, it seems. Last two times around, the '92 third gen Camaro kept the L98 while the '92 Corvette got the LT1, which appeared in the '93 fourth gen Camaro. Then, when the LS1 came out with the C5, the Camaro got it a year later in '98 because there was no replacement platform planned yet. Well don't forget that Bowling Green has also been shut down for about a month now I wanna say for their multi hundred-million dollar renovation and re-tooling. Chevrolet isn't going to be dropping that kinda money into something without trying to get the most out of it.
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Dec 28, 2012 11:01
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