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grillster posted:
No sirree, that there suggestion smacks of SOCIALISM!  We'll do it the way God intended, thank you very much!
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Dec 23, 2012 06:34
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grillster posted:Even switching to LED lighting and flashing many intersections at night would save energy and allow the city to shift money toward more creative improvements. It's simply a practical application of technology and standards for the better. Florida is also phasing out incandescent "rat lights" (the tattletale light above/below signals that lets a police officer know that you ran a red without facing the signal head) in favor of diffused LEDs. The old ones are clear with white bulbs, the new are blue LEDs. Old rat light:  New rat light:  As you can see, the rat light is now at the top of the signal head. This had to be done because of the blue LED - color blind persons could misinterpret it as a green light. Above the red aspect, there's less question. Varance fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Dec 23, 2012 |
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Dec 23, 2012 07:14
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So, if I understand, the point of the rat light is to help law enforcement bust red light runners? I've seen only the traditional hoods gapped at the bottom. I always thought it was designed that way to prevent snow accumulation, with the side effect of allowing opposing traffic to have a glance at the signal. I'd like to see countdown timers, just like those used for crosswalks, used for green time. Downtown Houston's crosswalks use them and many drivers seem to use them as a cheat sheet to modulate their pace through the green waves. Volmarias posted:No sirree, that there suggestion smacks of SOCIALISM! Propaganda from propaganda. I bet, setting fear of change aside, even simple improvements would improve life. I don't even believe it's oppression, just apathy. grillster fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Dec 23, 2012 |
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Dec 23, 2012 15:03
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First off, there is absolutely no reason to use incandescent lights anymore. Even if you don't like the look of LEDs (which, in my opinion, look a lot better than incandescent), you can put lenses over them which make them indistinguishable. Second, unfortunately, we've got a ton of speed-control stop signs on town roads, too. It seems like another crop of them pop up every year, all-way stops at the intersection with little streets hosting 5 houses. I'd love to sue the town sometime for the decrease in air quality, wasted gas, and wasted time. It comes out to about a hundred bucks a year for me on my 5-mile commute. Third, those rat lights look super confusing. I'm surprised they don't get shot out. Fourth, the lens hoods do have a gap for two reasons: to prevent snow accumulation, and to keep birds from nesting in them. We don't want other approaches to see the light, even for enforcement. Fifth, countdown timers on green only work if you have pre-timed signals with no variation. In some downtown areas, this is very common, and they'd work wonderfully. Where there's any actuation at all, however, you can't put a timer on the green, as there's no way to predict whether another phase is going to come in, or when. It also can't be used with emergency vehicle pre-emption. The only reason we can do ped countdown timers is because the ped flashing don't walk interval never changes.
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Dec 23, 2012 16:18
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Perhaps the countdown timer could display the symbol for 'infinity' until a side street is triggered, then begin counting in the same way some ped signals switch from infinite white walking man to flashing hand. To me the rat lights, if used for enforcement, speak of finding a solution rather than addressing the issue. Around these neighborhoods where stop signs are used liberally, police like to sit back and pull over community residents during rush hour. To me, when the intersection is clear, it makes no sense to waste the energy. I agree with you on the statement of environmental quality. As I type this, I can hear vehicles briskly accelerate away from the four way stop (only to halt again two blocks later). It's a misallocation of finite resources that's gotta be addressed using tact and experience. I'm going to ask you to guess for me four ballpark figures, if you don't mind. I'd like a real world idea of the cost of one set of speed humps, a brick pattern section, speed control island, and baby round about for a crowned concrete street 3 cars wide. These are all ideas I've learned from your thread as options for speed control. And the cost of removing a stop sign (I'm surprised a vigilante hasn't rednecked them from the ground already). edit: I would like to point out that knowing the status of the signal ahead allows me to control my speed more efficiently. Just as helpful is even the smallest view of the cross traffic signal. grillster fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Dec 23, 2012 |
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Dec 23, 2012 16:48
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Cichlidae posted:Fifth, countdown timers on green only work if you have pre-timed signals with no variation. In some downtown areas, this is very common, and they'd work wonderfully. Where there's any actuation at all, however, you can't put a timer on the green, as there's no way to predict whether another phase is going to come in, or when. It also can't be used with emergency vehicle pre-emption. The only reason we can do ped countdown timers is because the ped flashing don't walk interval never changes. Like grillster says, it really helps to know- well in advance- if that green light is going to turn red before I get to it. Would be damned nice to know a red light's going to turn green, too, so I can avoid unnecessarily slowing; I try to gauge now by looking at the other signals (EG, is it still green or did it just turn yellow?), but it's often very hard to see the other signals. And thus, for the sake of momentum, and up late-braking at every light in the faint hope it will turn green before I get there. Chock it up to fuel/emissions savings, just like traffic circles  Though when we're all drying hybrids and regenerating EVs, I suppose that's less of an issue.
grover fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Dec 23, 2012 |
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Dec 23, 2012 17:53
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Here's a better shot of a blue rat light. The intent of the rat light is to make a law enforcement officer's job easier at trial. Before, they had to testify that they could see the red signal aspect active, requiring them to see the incident from the same direction (or through a small hole in the signal housing, a trick that doesn't work with retrofitted LED bulbs). With a rat light, they only have to testify that the light was active when the person went through the intersection. Not easy on strand lights, but super easy on mast arm installs (where you often only have one direction on each arm). The rat light system can also be linked to TSP systems, causing the light to blink when the system is triggered.  It should be noted that, much like red light cameras, the presence of a rat light will increase the accident rate at an intersection - but it'll be in low speed rear impacts; high speed side impacts will go down. Also, in the state of Florida, rat lights must be equipped on any intersection with red light cameras and the rat light MUST be active in the photo violation image. If the rat isn't active (most have a 500ms delay before coming on), you can have the fine dropped as a false positive... even if the signal was red. Cichlidae posted:Third, those rat lights look super confusing. I'm surprised they don't get shot out. Varance fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Dec 23, 2012 |
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Dec 23, 2012 19:41
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grover posted:I try to gauge now by looking at the other signals (EG, is it still green or did it just turn yellow?), but it's often very hard to see the other signals. How does this not end up being stupidly dangerous?
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Dec 23, 2012 21:27
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Here's craziness for you: I was waiting at a stop sign on an highway onramp for the lane to be clear, and someone drove by us on the right shoulder, blew the stop sign, and merged right into traffic. Surprisingly effective but crazy.
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Dec 23, 2012 21:34
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Jonnty posted:How does this not end up being stupidly dangerous? Why would you assume it is "stupidly dangerous"? I do it all the time to avoid stopping at a light too early. Varance posted:Here's a better shot of a blue rat light. In the image you posted, is that red light an LED model with a lens on top? grillster fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Dec 23, 2012 |
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Dec 23, 2012 21:42
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grillster posted:Perhaps the countdown timer could display the symbol for 'infinity' until a side street is triggered, then begin counting in the same way some ped signals switch from infinite white walking man to flashing hand. It switches instantly, assuming the phase is maxed out. There is no time for countdown. grillster posted:I'm going to ask you to guess for me four ballpark figures, if you don't mind. I'd like a real world idea of the cost of one set of speed humps, a brick pattern section, speed control island, and baby round about for a crowned concrete street 3 cars wide. These are all ideas I've learned from your thread as options for speed control. A set of speed bumps is a couple grand, plus a tremendous amount of liability when someone inevitably breaks his neck driving over them at speed. A brick pattern section is best done when the pavement is re-done. That'll run you $20/square foot. A speed control island can be done cheaply (and poorly) for a hundred bucks, but you'd want a better one for a couple thou. Maintenance costs will be high. A mini roundabout is going to cost at least ten thousand, probably more like twenty. And removing a sign is $50, at most. You can't just get rid of one once it's in, though; you need to put up temporary signs telling people that cross traffic does not stop, new traffic pattern ahead, etc. grillster posted:edit: I would like to point out that knowing the status of the signal ahead allows me to control my speed more efficiently. Just as helpful is even the smallest view of the cross traffic signal. It's helpful to most people, but it is a tremendous liability for us. If someone is approaching at high speed, and sees the other (green) signal, they could run through the light and cause a fatality. grover posted:Don't give it a seconds count, then, just a bar-graph that mimics the timer in the PLC. If it's a low volume intersection and the timing changes when a new car comes and triggers it, then have an abrupt jump- just like how the timer is seeing it. I'd love to see a little bar graph alongside signals just like how you posted in the early pages of this thread. Believe me, I'm aware that it would save time, fuel, and money. I'm all in favor of uniform 3-second yellows with countdown. I'm in favor of yellow-red during the red clearance interval (again, with countdown) to let you know to get in gear before it turns green. These are fixed intervals. When a phase is green, though, there is no telling how long it will last, and I'd much rather give people no extra information than give them something that could turn out to be wrong.
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Dec 23, 2012 22:46
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Cichlidae posted:
There was a street near one of my friend's places that got a set of stop signs installed along its length last year, with stop bars and such added to the pavement. Then the signs never got uncovered and they were hastily removed and the road markings covered up. The road:  And the probable reason that the city originally wanted signs put up, it shaves off 0.4 miles getting from North US 130 to places farther along Salem Road, because you use it as a shortcut instead of doing this:  Of course, trucks can't take the shortcut. For what it's worth in that area Salem Road also has a 25 mph speed limit just like this residential street shortcut. The intersection where the shortcut road meets Salem is interesting though... http://goo.gl/maps/LszdF
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Dec 23, 2012 23:05
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Cichlidae posted:It switches instantly, assuming the phase is maxed out. There is no time for countdown. Is this a limitation of standard hardware? I've seen systems that a system can detect the presence of a car, and queue a changeover when it next fits into the pattern (otherwise, while without any traffic the side street is skipped). So, that also tells me logically it's possible to give drivers on the main drag an infinity symbol with a digital sign, then begin a countdown when the controller queues up a side street. If this digital signage hardware doesn't exist, I understand, but it's not quite a technical challenge to a space voyaging species. quote:A set of speed bumps is a couple grand, plus a tremendous amount of liability when someone inevitably breaks his neck driving over them at speed. Awesome, that's good information. Would humps or bubbles run about the same as bumps? I imagine temporary cautionary signs don't cost much to rent from a subcontractor. Surely a court wouldn't find a hump at fault due to a driver's negligence. quote:It's helpful to most people, but it is a tremendous liability for us. If someone is approaching at high speed, and sees the other (green) signal, they could run through the light and cause a fatality. I appreciate your answers but the reasons against such measures strike me as counterproductive. If we're designing for the lowest common denominator, then we'll at best be stuck with systems designed which are "okay" and inefficient. Such practices have already shown to be sub-par, but in place, while innovative ideas take the back seat. I imagine lack of experience is why roundabouts aren't common here, but at the same time without roundabouts to practice on, it's never going to get any better. I did see your post on that new roundabout a few pages back and I hope to see more like it. What about those incandescent bulbs? Would it be a contractor who is responsible for replacements? I also like the idea of the extra yellow. What can be done to trial such a feature? China is imminently opening a new high speed bullet train line, with plans to double their high speed passenger rail infrastructure by 2020. Here, civic leaders seem to be afraid to get anything bold done and it's having a tremendous impact on community well-being. I'd really like to see leaps in progress toward infrastructure improvements. Any time I see an estimate for urban rail in Houston I see dates fifteen years out. I know we're capable of being quite a bit more adventurous on a grander scale, and we've got to see the practicality in it and apply what we already know as a collective. Houstonions should really begin to concern themselves with the air quality, especially as the suburbs continue to reach further into forested areas. I uploaded a video to Vimeo of a road project local to Houston. The very reason for the Spring Cypress upgrade is to handle the sheer bulk of suburban traffic that travels the road every day. I've seen worse construction projects, but my expectations ("your tax dollars at work!") are obviously very high. Runtime is about thirteen minutes of driving. Welcome to your virtual suburban Texas tour. grillster fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Dec 23, 2012 |
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Dec 23, 2012 23:34
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grillster posted:In the image you posted, is that red light an LED model with a lens on top? Edit: This video is a little painful to watch, but the LEDs the electrician is retrofitting have a built-in colored lens. They are literally indistinguishable from incandescent lights. The ones the railroad guy has use a clear cover. Florida is old people and tourist country. We use backlit intersection signs, intersection approach signs (Blabla Road Next Signal) and do anything else we can to keep people driving safely. Varance fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 23, 2012 23:52
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Jonnty posted:How does this not end up being stupidly dangerous? People that slow down way too far before corners and lights is really just a big pet peeve of mine. grover fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 00:37
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grillster posted:Is this a limitation of standard hardware? I've seen systems that a system can detect the presence of a car, and queue a changeover when it next fits into the pattern (otherwise, while without any traffic the side street is skipped). So, that also tells me logically it's possible to give drivers on the main drag an infinity symbol with a digital sign, then begin a countdown when the controller queues up a side street. It's not a technical challenge. Just think about it this way. Let's say you're in the artery through phase, which is the most common phase, and is green 95% of the time. Your signal system has no idea when another car will come in. Since the phase has already exhausted its max green time, the signal is just sitting in wait for another phase to be called. As soon as the first car rolls over the side street loops, the artery turns yellow. There's nowhere to put a countdown in there, because the controller has no idea when a car might arrive. The only time it will work is where the phases are fixed-time. grillster posted:Awesome, that's good information. Would humps or bubbles run about the same as bumps? I imagine temporary cautionary signs don't cost much to rent from a subcontractor. Surely a court wouldn't find a hump at fault due to a driver's negligence. Speed tables or raised crosswalks are a better bet. And yes, humps are at fault. If a cop or ambulance or fire truck is going 60 mph to get to an emergency, and they hit that bump, who's to blame? grillster posted:I appreciate your answers but the reasons against such measures strike me as counterproductive. If we're designing for the lowest common denominator, then we'll at best be stuck with systems designed which are "okay" and inefficient. Such practices have already shown to be sub-par, but in place, while innovative ideas take the back seat. I imagine lack of experience is why roundabouts aren't common here, but at the same time without roundabouts to practice on, it's never going to get any better. I did see your post on that new roundabout a few pages back and I hope to see more like it. Designing for the lowest common denominator is what I do. It's a necessity of the job. Until you significantly increase the quality of driver's education and set up mandatory re-testing, the stupidest driver out there - the one who only passed the test by dumb luck 65 years ago, and is on a bender, and is driving at night in the snow - is the one we have to design for. grillster posted:What about those incandescent bulbs? Would it be a contractor who is responsible for replacements? Whoever owns the signal is responsible. I don't see why anyone wouldn't go with LED; we switched our reds about... 20 years ago? It's just a huge waste of money otherwise. grillster posted:I also like the idea of the extra yellow. What can be done to trial such a feature? They're common in England and Germany, as two examples. I imagine you'd just have to apply for experimental use via the FHWA, and they'd give you a trial situation. grillster posted:China is imminently opening a new high speed bullet train line, with plans to double their high speed passenger rail infrastructure by 2020. Here, civic leaders seem to be afraid to get anything bold done and it's having a tremendous impact on community well-being. I'd really like to see leaps in progress toward infrastructure improvements. Any time I see an estimate for urban rail in Houston I see dates fifteen years out. I know we're capable of being quite a bit more adventurous on a grander scale, and we've got to see the practicality in it and apply what we already know as a collective. For better or for worse, the days of building our infrastructure are long in the past. The red tape is ten times deeper than it was three decades ago. Hell, just to re-paint pavement markings, I have to go through 100 pages of paperwork, get an environmental review, federal review, bicycle and pedestrian review, historical properties and viewshed review... Now toss in some right-of-way acquisition, and you've got a nightmare on your hands.
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Dec 24, 2012 00:43
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As an addendum to high speed rail, you're screwed if you ever have to deal with CSX. That alone will make a project a non-starter, as they don't want passenger on their rails outside of what little Amtrak service they have to allow to get pork from DC lawmakers. The only way to get anything onto their rails, commuter or high-speed, is to outright buy their tracks for hundreds of millions of dollars. Oh, and you still have to let them use the tracks as part of their terms. To hell with CSX! That right there is why Florida doesn't have a robust commuter network. All of the useful rails are CSX, save the line down the east coast owned by FECR (and that has commuter in Miami and a forthcoming Miami to Orlando passenger service). Everything's designed and ready to go... but we don't have billions of dollars to buy CSX's tracks. Varance fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 00:52
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Cichlidae posted:It's not a technical challenge. Just think about it this way. Let's say you're in the artery through phase, which is the most common phase, and is green 95% of the time. Your signal system has no idea when another car will come in. Since the phase has already exhausted its max green time, the signal is just sitting in wait for another phase to be called. As soon as the first car rolls over the side street loops, the artery turns yellow. There's nowhere to put a countdown in there, because the controller has no idea when a car might arrive. The only time it will work is where the phases are fixed-time. Why not have it give three seconds of green before turning yellow? That seems safer and simpler overall.
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Dec 24, 2012 00:53
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Volmarias posted:Why not have it give three seconds of green before turning yellow? That seems safer and simpler overall. What would be safer about it? That's what the yellow is for. You're just wasting 3 seconds in every phase.
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Dec 24, 2012 01:45
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Cichlidae posted:What would be safer about it? That's what the yellow is for. You're just wasting 3 seconds in every phase. Well the problem is that the green countdown is "unreliable" if you have an interrupt, right? Wouldn't having several seconds of counting down from green to yellow be enough to let incoming traffic know that their assumption about the light is no longer correct?
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Dec 24, 2012 02:41
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Cichlidae posted:It's not a technical challenge. Just think about it this way. Let's say you're in the artery through phase, which is the most common phase, and is green 95% of the time. Your signal system has no idea when another car will come in. Since the phase has already exhausted its max green time, the signal is just sitting in wait for another phase to be called. As soon as the first car rolls over the side street loops, the artery turns yellow. There's nowhere to put a countdown in there, because the controller has no idea when a car might arrive. The only time it will work is where the phases are fixed-time. I understand what you're saying: you're speaking about systems that don't talk to one-another or are robustly aware of the movement of packs of cars. I bet it can be done with advanced enough traffic system networking technology. quote:For better or for worse, the days of building our infrastructure are long in the past. The red tape is ten times deeper than it was three decades ago. Hell, just to re-paint pavement markings, I have to go through 100 pages of paperwork, get an environmental review, federal review, bicycle and pedestrian review, historical properties and viewshed review... Now toss in some right-of-way acquisition, and you've got a nightmare on your hands. Our apathy in making our infrastructure more efficient will affect those who inherit our systems. Varance posted:As an addendum to high speed rail, you're screwed if you ever have to deal with CSX. That alone will make a project a non-starter, as they don't want passenger on their rails outside of what little Amtrak service they have to allow to get pork from DC lawmakers. The only way to get anything onto their rails, commuter or high-speed, is to outright buy their tracks for hundreds of millions of dollars. Oh, and you still have to let them use the tracks as part of their terms. To hell with CSX! They'll charge ridiculous prices for obscenely long trips because they have apparently taken the stance of stagnation in an ever more demanding environment. Any private entity that takes the initiative to deal with the obvious challenges presented by laying new rail, and does it in a respectable amount of time on their own built tracks, and operates it efficiently will be the nail in the coffin for Amtrak.
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Dec 24, 2012 02:44
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grover posted:Why would it be dangerous? If I think the light is likely to turn green, I'll maintain speed with the hopes that it'll turn green and I can just keep going; if it doesn't turn green, I brake to a stop when I get closer to the light. As opposed to most drivers out there who will start slowing down 1/2 mile before the light only to have it turn green when they're still 1/4 mile away, and then fail to accelerate and thus miss the inevitably too-short green cycle and get stuck at the light right after it turns red again. Assuming you already brake at an appropriate distance from a stop signal, I don't see how changing your braking behaviour based on an assumption about the signal pattern doesn't have an effect on the safety of your driving.
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Dec 24, 2012 03:13
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Jonnty posted:Assuming you already brake at an appropriate distance from a stop signal, I don't see how changing your braking behaviour based on an assumption about the signal pattern doesn't have an effect on the safety of your driving. Simply a waste of time and gas to do this when the light's going to turn back green, though, and you risk missing the green entirely and getting stuck when it turns back red. The trick is gauging whether the light's gonna stay red or turn green. Which would be a lot easier if there was some indication of timing. grover fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 03:29
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grover posted:I'd immediately let off the gas and coast like a hypermiler if I knew the light would stay red. In fact, I do this now for long-cycle lights and where there's a bunch of traffic backed up that clearly isn't going anywhere regardless of what the light does. Fair enough. I totally support proper indications for when lights are going to change by the way - the UK system is pretty good but I think it's mainly to let manual car drivers get in gear than anything else.
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Dec 24, 2012 03:34
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Volmarias posted:Well the problem is that the green countdown is "unreliable" if you have an interrupt, right? Wouldn't having several seconds of counting down from green to yellow be enough to let incoming traffic know that their assumption about the light is no longer correct? Yeah, but what's that going to tell them that the yellow light didn't? And if you've got an emergency vehicle pre-emption, it's going to kick them right into yellow regardless. If you can't have that countdown green all the time, you shouldn't have it anytime. Don't want people getting used to it and then T-boning an ambulance because they figured they'd be getting an extra 3 seconds of green.
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Dec 24, 2012 04:51
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Can preemption work on timer only systems in cities? If it can, how do they deal with that when they have the pedestrian timers counting down?
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Dec 24, 2012 05:40
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grillster posted:Any private entity that takes the initiative to deal with the obvious challenges presented by laying new rail, and does it in a respectable amount of time on their own built tracks, and operates it efficiently will be the nail in the coffin for Amtrak. Varance fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 06:09
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Good. Any new passenger rail projects are a step in the right direction. Time is valuable. Get people going places fast.grover posted:I'd immediately let off the gas and coast like a hypermiler if I knew the light would stay red. In fact, I do this now for long-cycle lights and where there's a bunch of traffic backed up that clearly isn't going anywhere regardless of what the light does. "" Which would be a lot easier if there was some indication of timing. Nailed it to the sky. As for preemption, though. Compared to the city, the constant demand for preemption in the suburbs follows the density. I think that should be considered--the demand for preemption--when designing high volume arterials. You'd expect the signals controlling roads converging on a medical district a prime candidate for studying preemptive activity. An arterial between two hospital distrcits, with neighborhoods connecting to it, will naturally have different emergency vehicle patterns. grillster fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 06:39
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mamosodiumku posted:Can preemption work on timer only systems in cities? If it can, how do they deal with that when they have the pedestrian timers counting down? Pre-emption can work anywhere. Heck, it works even better on a non-coordinated (isolated) signal, because with coordination, pre-emption will gently caress up your whole cycle and force the signal to work double time to try to get back on schedule. If the pre-emption is activated when the "WALK" phase is active, it will immediately transition to flashing "DON'T WALK", with the normal clearance interval. If it's already in flashing "DON'T WALK", then it has no real effect other than to call the pre-empt phase next. You can't speed up clearance intervals; it's just not safe. grillster posted:As for preemption, though. Compared to the city, the constant demand for preemption in the suburbs follows the density. I think that should be considered--the demand for preemption--when designing high volume arterials. You'd expect the signals controlling roads converging on a medical district a prime candidate for studying preemptive activity. An arterial between two hospital distrcits, with neighborhoods connecting to it, will naturally have different emergency vehicle patterns. I know I sure as heck consider it when I design my signals. SOP is to grab the town's fire run maps and, wherever an outgoing route crosses your signal, provide pre-emption (if the town wants it). The project will cover the costs of installation, but the town has to pay for maintenance. Additionally, for whatever reason, we only allow pre-emption to be used for fire. In the field, it's sometimes used for EMS as well, but that is strictly off the books.
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Dec 24, 2012 13:25
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Quebec City has speed limit signs that change to indicate how fast vehicles need to be going to catch a green wave. I am wondering if there is any deliberate thought that gets put into how fast an LED traffic light fades when it turns off, similar to an incandescent bulb.
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Dec 24, 2012 18:01
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AmbassadorTaxicab posted:Quebec City has speed limit signs that change to indicate how fast vehicles need to be going to catch a green wave. Maybe the electrical engineers care about it, but we just assume it's instant. Out in the field, you'll sometimes notice a <100ms delay in phase changes, but we deal in seconds, not fractions thereof.
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Dec 24, 2012 22:18
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Cichlidae posted:Speed tables or raised crosswalks are a better bet. And yes, humps are at fault. If a cop or ambulance or fire truck is going 60 mph to get to an emergency, and they hit that bump, who's to blame? The driver, for driving at a speed unsafe for that stretch of road. If I take a sharp turn at high speed and crash into a tree, I can't hold the government liable for putting a bend in the road, so why are speed bumps an exception? Assuming there is a sign indicating the speed bump, of course.
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Dec 25, 2012 00:06
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John Dough posted:The driver, for driving at a speed unsafe for that stretch of road. If I take a sharp turn at high speed and crash into a tree, I can't hold the government liable for putting a bend in the road, so why are speed bumps an exception? Assuming there is a sign indicating the speed bump, of course. Because speed bumps are inherently dangerous. And I've had my car damaged going over a speed bump at the posted speed limit before too... I did get payment to fix my car out of that particular town!
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Dec 25, 2012 00:21
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Speed bumps can be badly constructed, and in those cases I can see why a government could be held liable for damages. But still, there are many reasons why it may not be safe to drive the speed limit on any particular stretch of road, depending on traffic situation, weather, your vehicle, and other factors. I can't help but feel that speed bumps are held to a higher standard here for no real reason.
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Dec 25, 2012 01:13
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John Dough posted:But still, there are many reasons why it may not be safe to drive the speed limit on any particular stretch of road, depending on traffic situation, weather, your vehicle, and other factors.
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Dec 25, 2012 01:23
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John Dough posted:Speed bumps can be badly constructed, and in those cases I can see why a government could be held liable for damages. But still, there are many reasons why it may not be safe to drive the speed limit on any particular stretch of road, depending on traffic situation, weather, your vehicle, and other factors. I can't help but feel that speed bumps are held to a higher standard here for no real reason. Speed bumps were knowingly put there and are a hazard. They should be banned to be honest, because they can damage vehicles easily that are obeying the speed limit not to mention things that have a reason to be exceeding it.
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Dec 25, 2012 03:35
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Install Gentoo posted:Speed bumps were knowingly put there and are a hazard. They should be banned to be honest, because they can damage vehicles easily that are obeying the speed limit not to mention things that have a reason to be exceeding it. 
Varance fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Dec 25, 2012 |
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Dec 25, 2012 06:42
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Varance posted:I prefer the more recent speed tables we've been putting in at USF that you can plow at up to 30 MPH in a ambulance/fire truck with minimal impact, but will cause a personal vehicle to go airborne if traveling that fast. Yeah speed tables work out a lot better just in general. And as shown there they make good places to stick a crosswalk.
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Dec 25, 2012 07:03
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So in my hometown of Birmingham, AL we have a terribly designed road-way, highway 280. It's a nice drive until you hit morning and evening rush hours where it's jam packed and sucks. Please tell me if this is part of the problem. Also oddly the proposed ALDoT changes to 280 traffic involve eliminating left turn lanes/signals in favor of cross-lane u-turns further down the road. I'm not sure what the hell to think, but it doesn't sound better than our current morning clusterfuck that turns a normally 15 minute commute into 1 hour. http://aldotapps.dot.state.al.us/US280/Proposed%20Layout.html
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Dec 25, 2012 18:00
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onemanlan posted:So in my hometown of Birmingham, AL we have a terribly designed road-way, highway 280. It's a nice drive until you hit morning and evening rush hours where it's jam packed and sucks. Please tell me if this is part of the problem. I was about to post this intersection! I hate driving to the shopping center that's at the top left on the photo.  I marked where I459S has to go if they want to turn on US280E. It merges into lanes where I459N to US280 go. The southbound traffic only turns right since they have the other exit ramp to go the other direction, unless they missed their turn somehow. About half of I459N turns left, and half right, and the I459S has to swap places with the people wanting to turn left, in a very short distance of just a few car lengths. And for another sort of sucky road not too far away -- Right next to Exit 246 off of I65S  Near the bottom left, there's the road travelling to the right (Cahaba Valley), and to turn south on I65, you have to cross over the lane of travel that is made for the road at the very bottom (oriented north/up), then get in the turn lane for the interstate in a very short amount of time. Most of the time that's not a problem, except for when there's an event at the amphitheater like concerts, fairs, and other big events.
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Dec 25, 2012 19:53
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