|
Guilty posted:It's hard to deal with for you because you probably think a hook starts way out past the shoulder and an overhead starts high and outside. A fatigued fighter will not do a downward angled punch. He's going to drop his guard and throw and then drop on the bring back. It's like lobbing a ball when you're tired. the ball is still going up. fatigued fighters often wade forward with the hands tucked under their chin and when those guys start reaching with their punches, they're flying at a slightly downward facing angle. you even see this poo poo during endurance drills on the bag..what's so puzzling to you? it happens a lot more often than precise downward punches (outside of tall vs short guy matchups). maybe even more often than you compulsively mentioning hooks and overhands in a discussion about straight punches.
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2012 21:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 04:57 |
|
|
Xguard86 posted:1:38 here: IMO Those are very tight slightly overhand and angled crosses against a shorter opponent. One of the might be even a right hook that starts like a straight (which Guilty mentioned earlier). Klitschko doesn't need to worry about an immediate counter over his hand so no millisecond return through the pipe are required. edit: I'm actually pretty stoked about hearing why they are anything but. I admit talking about striking on the internet with people who are rarely on the same page and might take some liberties on interpreting each other isn't easy, at least compared to just hanging around at the gym and showing what you mean, but it can be fruitful. After all, what I want to do is learn more. Paul Pot posted:fatigued fighters often wade forward with the hands tucked under their chin and when those guys start reaching with their punches, they're flying at a slightly downward facing angle. you even see this poo poo during endurance drills on the bag Exactly my experience and what I was talking about, tired guys can still keep their hands up at their jaw but reach and drop when they throw. vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Ligur fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Dec 20, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2012 21:45
|
|
|
wlad almost exclusively throws overhands with his right, those aren't straight punches
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2012 22:12
|
|
|
Xguard86 posted:more strikechat: I don't know anything about this but I thank my lucky stars my dumb fists have never broken in a streetfight.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2012 22:50
|
|
|
Paul Pot posted:fatigued fighters often wade forward with the hands tucked under their chin and when those guys start reaching with their punches, they're flying at a slightly downward facing angle. you even see this poo poo during endurance drills on the bag..what's so puzzling to you? it happens a lot more often than precise downward punches (outside of tall vs short guy matchups). maybe even more often than you compulsively mentioning hooks and overhands in a discussion about straight punches. Oh, I kinda get what you mean now. Yeah, I guess those are downward angled-- the whole 'train linkage' thing was a distraction since those that's a different problem, that might co-occur. Remember, what you said was: quote:straight punches with a downward trajectory are lovely arm punches resulting from fatigue and wave punch sounds like check hook's retarded cousin Which was just way too broad-brushed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2012 22:57
|
|
|
not a lot of effort went into that post, even by my standards
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 00:25
|
|
|
Paul Pot posted:doing that vs a mirrored fighter is suicidal. Doing what, looking to slip outside their cross? Or doing so and following with an uppercut?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 00:54
|
|
|
Xguard86 posted:more strikechat: I read an interesting paper that hypothesized that humans are bipedal because it allows for better punching. They pointed to primates that spend a lot of time as quadrupeds and then stand on their back legs to fight. Also in the research they found that taller people punching down had more punching force than short people punching up, which they claim in part leads to the attraction women have towards taller men. Not sure I buy it all, but it is interesting science. Here is the hand article in full: http://jeb.biologists.org/content/216/2/i.1.full.pdf+html Edit: Sorry that's not it. This is it: http://jeb.biologists.org/content/216/2/236.full.pdf+html Lt. Shiny-sides fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Dec 21, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 04:27
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:Doing what, looking to slip outside their cross? Or doing so and following with an uppercut? Maybe I'm confused or he is or you are with the use of the word mirrored, but if I'm orthodox and they're southpaw, if I slip outside off their cross. I've got my lead hand covering while I throw the rear uppercut. I want to be angled so I'm outside their line and properly angled. They're wide open and I'm defended. If we're both orthodox and I slip outside throwing a rear uppercut leaves my right side undefended and open to a lead hook. Either if I get tied up, miss my mark or they reset properly and throw I'm eating a hook. Either way in situation one I'd rather throw the cross counter.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 07:04
|
|
|
I posted this in the B-leauge thread as well, but I think it fits here as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxYGiPxdylg It sure is something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 08:35
|
|
|
I did some sparring today, first time training in like 2 months (thanks, work) 1: I'm fat 2: Always always always wear a cup 3: Don't spar 1 week after spraining your knee 4: I've completely lost the feel for it. Does anyone else find it to be really perishable? 5: Seriously, always wear a cup Really not ready for Thailand, going to have to put in some serious cardio work/diet before then. Sprained knee doesn't help (nothing major, just hyperextended it tripping over a rock when hiking). Also keep popping my left shoulder a little bit, really need to do some stuff to pull that back in. Dammit. Mad at myself for getting so out of shape/practice. 12hr days in the Australian outback should be no excuse.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 11:09
|
|
|
Being a southpaw fuckin owns suck it righties  e: if you guys think orthodox vs. southpaw is awkward jesus christ I sparred against another southpaw recently...now I understand where all the hate comes from.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 13:30
|
|
|
BlindSite posted:If we're both orthodox and I slip outside throwing a rear uppercut leaves my right side undefended and open to a lead hook. Either if I get tied up, miss my mark or they reset properly and throw I'm eating a hook. How about throwing a lead uppercut instead, that owns.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 13:59
|
|
|
BlindSite posted:Maybe I'm confused or he is or you are with the use of the word mirrored, but if I'm orthodox and they're southpaw, if I slip outside off their cross. I'm not sure why you ended your sentence there, but then (after you slip outside the mirrored cross) you're already outside their decent angle of attack. If they're very dexterous, they might have faked the cross, had you buy into that, and then thrown a quick rear roundhouse. quote:I've got my lead hand covering while I throw the rear uppercut. I want to be angled so I'm outside their line and properly angled. They're wide open and I'm defended.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 15:41
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:Doing what, looking to slip outside their cross? Or doing so and following with an uppercut? slipping to the outside is already dangerous vs mirrored fighters, i just don't understand why anyone would follow up on that with another risky move (rear uppercut) instead of going for the body...especially against floyd mayweather
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 17:12
|
|
|
I still remember my boxing trainer: "for you, right now, there is no right hand uppercut. It does not exist" man I miss striking. I had a good time boxing but I felt like splitting my already kind of limited time was no good and bjj had to take priority.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 17:37
|
|
|
Israfel posted:e: if you guys think orthodox vs. southpaw is awkward jesus christ I sparred against another southpaw recently...now I understand where all the hate comes from. In Hell the only boxing on TV is two journeymen southpaws circling each other, giving up on finding a good angle, flicking halfspeed jabs then backing up half a step. All to the orgasmic giggling of Steve Farhood.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 17:42
|
|
|
Paul Pot posted:slipping to the outside is already dangerous vs mirrored fighters, i just don't understand why anyone would follow up on that with another risky move (rear uppercut) instead of going for the body...especially against floyd mayweather Ok, I'm southpaw facing orthodox. He throws a telegraphed and committed cross. I slip to my left, successfully getting to the outside of his right hand. What is the next hazard for me? Outside of boxing, I see clinch and knee or a fast rear kick being a problem if I step in deep after the slip. In boxing, I'm not seeing the immediate danger. I've just put myself in the most awkward place for him to attack. The main problem I see is that it's hard to time and succeed in that slip.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 17:51
|
|
|
DekeThornton posted:I posted this in the B-leauge thread as well, but I think it fits here as well. seems like a giant waste of time and money
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 18:59
|
|
|
So it's like a tag team but the second round is a 2-on-1? I was kinda cringing when the outnumbered guy was caught in a rear naked and getting punched in the face by the second guy. If they weren't being sportsmanlike someone could get really hurt..
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 19:07
|
|
|
mewse posted:So it's like a tag team but the second round is a 2-on-1? I really don't know. I think once one guy taps out or is knocked out his partner is left to fend for himself. It's all very strange and Russian.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 19:16
|
|
|
gimpsuitjones posted:I did some sparring today, first time training in like 2 months (thanks, work) 1) I sometimes worry that MT is giving me a body image disorder, I'm not fat at all ( but obviously have SOME body fat ) but I've never felt as conscious of any non-muscle weight as I have since starting beginning of last year. 2) 100%, even if just doing boxing drills. Love my nutty buddy! 3) Also don't spar with a bruised rib. It sucks feeling like a giant useless pussy but it sucks even more when you have to tell the other guy "hey I'm kind of tender in my side so don't hit to hard OK??  ", then when he barely taps you folding over. Then having to decline all sparring requests because "my rib".4) I agree, even when it's not injury related. I came back to training/sparring after a 1 month break and it was like starting over from scratch. I was flinching, closing my eyes, turtling after a simple 1-2-3 and just generally felt extremely overwhelmed and scared of getting hit. The thing is that before doing any MT or sparring, I was admittedly afraid of getting hit - I didn't know what it would FEEL like and assumed it would hurt. Now, mentally I don't really care about getting hit at all - from a logical standpoint I know it won't hurt, I haven't experienced pain from getting hit with all my gear on ( except my rib of course ). Obviously though my body doesn't feel the same way after a break like that. It's like the fear response is so deeply ingrained into my body that it doesn't matter how much I conceptually understand it won't hurt - my muscles still react very defensively. A few more sessions later and I feel like I'm better than ever, but it's very much like a sub-conscious mental muscle to me - if I don't use it, I lose it. You long-term MT/MMA/Striking guys find it the same? Or is the "recovery" time from a break lessened the more time you've spent sparring? I assume the longer you've done it, the easier it is to get back into step. Either way, just keep it up and it'll come back! 5) ALWAYS, since wearing mine I've noticed a lot of accidental cock punches and grazing. Glad I got my buddy to back me up. TollTheHounds fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Dec 21, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 19:38
|
|
|
I noticed that if I am caught up in life or whatever, and I'm away from MT for like a month or so, I do better coming back since I miss getting run over by a truck 
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 19:42
|
|
|
TollTheHounds posted:1) I sometimes worry that MT is giving me a body image disorder, I'm not fat at all ( but obviously have SOME body fat ) but I've never felt as conscious of any non-muscle weight as I have since starting beginning of last year. Haha maybe
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 21:09
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:Ok, I'm southpaw facing orthodox. He throws a telegraphed and committed cross. I slip to my left, successfully getting to the outside of his right hand. What is the next hazard for me? well there's no immediate hazard, but you're pretty likely to hit arm/glove/elbow instead of chin and get countered off that. just seems like a risky move compared to a punch to the liver or temple. i guess there's a bigger chance of success with mma gloves like kiddynamite said, but i doubt big country spends a lot of time contemplating this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 21:11
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:Ok, I'm southpaw facing orthodox. He throws a telegraphed and committed cross. I slip to my left, successfully getting to the outside of his right hand. What is the next hazard for me? Wasn't the context of this discussion that if you end up in this spot and throw a right uppercut you are wide open for their left hook? I'm confused
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 21:13
|
|
|
Lt. Shiny-sides posted:I read an interesting paper that hypothesized that humans are bipedal because it allows for better punching. They pointed to primates that spend a lot of time as quadrupeds and then stand on their back legs to fight. Also in the research they found that taller people punching down had more punching force than short people punching up, which they claim in part leads to the attraction women have towards taller men. Not sure I buy it all, but it is interesting science. The first pdf is the sort of moronic garbage that science journalists, being too stupid to understand either science or journalism, regularly poo poo out. The second one seems solid, but doesn't say anything except that all other things being equal, natural selection would probably favor hands that can punch over hands that cannot. Which is pretty self-evident. The fact that a human will easily lose an unarmed fight to any animal of equal body weight should be a pretty strong clue that we did not evolve for unarmed combat.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2012 23:32
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:I'm not sure why you ended your sentence there, but then (after you slip outside the mirrored cross) you're already outside their decent angle of attack. If they're very dexterous, they might have faked the cross, had you buy into that, and then thrown a quick rear roundhouse. I angle and shuffle a poo poo load because I've got short legs and arms and I train with taller, longer guys. So when I slip I have to close quickly. I drill it a lot on my own as well when doing bag work. Some times in order to open up properly the angles I have don't allow for certain punching angles I guess.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2012 03:30
|
|
|
Today we trained stepping outside a right cross (everyone orthodox) and throwing a left overhand as a counter.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2012 19:08
|
|
|
mewse posted:Wasn't the context of this discussion that if you end up in this spot and throw a right uppercut you are wide open for their left hook? I think the risk is higher if you step less and counter with the lead upper instead of stepping deep and using the rear upper. My friend linked me this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZQCoS4FSfk&t=55s At 1:02, 1:19, and 1:25, McCallum leans slightly to the outside of the cross and then shoots the rear upper. It's not directly relevant to this discussion, imo, because he's outclassing that guy with a barrage of techniques (and dominating the cross exchange) and just occasionally using that one, but there's a time and place for it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2012 20:46
|
|
|
Newbie striking question: is there a reason that we don't see MMA fighters bob-and-weave like boxers tend to do? The only MMA fighter I can recall doing that was KJ Noons, and it seemed to work fairly well for him. I assume it's because of the threat of knees and kicks but I'm not sure.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2012 22:29
|
|
|
Meeks Sisu posted:Newbie striking question: is there a reason that we don't see MMA fighters bob-and-weave like boxers tend to do? The only MMA fighter I can recall doing that was KJ Noons, and it seemed to work fairly well for him. I assume it's because of the threat of knees and kicks but I'm not sure. I remember seeing a video of Marlon Sandro doing some fancy bobbing and weaving and ended up eating a ridiculous head kick and dying because of it. I assume that's why. edit:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkWR0tGC8P8 canoshiz fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Dec 22, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2012 22:33
|
|
|
Meeks Sisu posted:Newbie striking question: is there a reason that we don't see MMA fighters bob-and-weave like boxers tend to do? The only MMA fighter I can recall doing that was KJ Noons, and it seemed to work fairly well for him. I assume it's because of the threat of knees and kicks but I'm not sure. Bringing your head closer to someone's feet and knees isn't a good idea. You do see bobbing and weaving but they're combined with other actions, like stepping in close and other things that'll take away the ability to kick/knee. It's the same reason you don't see them doing the sway back that often, since that leaves your legs undefended. If someone is doing a very big move, you could still sway back but it's risky. Obdicut fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Dec 22, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2012 23:01
|
|
|
Meeks Sisu posted:Newbie striking question: is there a reason that we don't see MMA fighters bob-and-weave like boxers tend to do? The only MMA fighter I can recall doing that was KJ Noons, and it seemed to work fairly well for him. I assume it's because of the threat of knees and kicks but I'm not sure. Anderson Silva is the only person who can do it in MMA and get away with it without eating a massive kick or knee to the face.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2012 09:27
|
|
|
its also much easier to take a guy down when hes bent over like that. Its too bad too because watching guys pretend its the matrix is the coolest part of boxing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2012 15:52
|
|
|
canoshiz posted:I remember seeing a video of Marlon Sandro doing some fancy bobbing and weaving and ended up eating a ridiculous head kick and dying because of it. I assume that's why. As a note, I'm pretty sure no one died here. At least, not according to Wikipedia.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2012 15:54
|
|
|
TheStampede posted:As a note, I'm pretty sure no one died here. At least, not according to Wikipedia. I'm pretty sure you can make out the soul leaving his body if you squint, but yeah, don't worry. It came back.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2012 21:22
|
|
|
Xguard86 posted:more strikechat: It has a hell of a lot more to do with head structure than fist structure.  The human head has incredibly weak areas, and dense bone plating, right next to one another. You might throw a perfect right overhand to his orbital, but if he ducks and you punch the top of his head; well, you prolly gonna have to see a doctor. Cozy Hemp Mines fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Dec 25, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2012 21:02
|
|
|
Space human being posted:It's TKD History Time Y'all There was a lot of nationalist pride in the foundation of Taekwondo. I can't stand watching Olympic TKD, and I'm at 4th geup. If that was all that TKD was -- 6 minutes of warily shuffling around each other, followed by 10 seconds of vicious kicking -- I would have quit a long time ago. The WTF has used the Olympics thing to boost the popularity of TKD, which has worked, but also resulted in an over-abundance of crappy schools. The WTF sparring points system encourages kicks and devalues hand strikes, which leads to some teachers and students doing the same. Basically, TKD is a perfectly solid striking art which got really popular several years ago and hasn't done itself any favors since. From that, you get things like the BJJ guy who told me in all seriousness that TKD doesn't allow any hands at all, like soccer, so it isn't a real martial art.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2012 07:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 04:57 |
|
|
Degenerate Star posted:
Solid striking arts have a good plan for what happens when the opponent gets too close to strike and the rules says "no throws." What exactly is TKD's plan? I mean, aside from stealing clinch techniques from MT, Boxing & Sanshou.  P.S. 99% of TKD hand strikes are "watch my hands, please" set-ups/rangefinders for kicks or counter-punches to kicks. That is why nobody takes TKD punches seriously, because TKD doesn't take them seriously as a primary striking tool.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2012 18:23
|
|