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krushgroove posted:I can't take Menroth or Khador because the other two guys I'll be playing with are splitting the 2-player set. But it's good to know that Menroth seem to be one of the harder factions to play - that probably means the Menroth player will be as slow as me to get to terms with the game.  Once it happens once you kind of go, oh and then never make that mistake again.
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Dec 24, 2012 01:33
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 13:16 |
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krushgroove posted:I can't take Menroth or Khador because the other two guys I'll be playing with are splitting the 2-player set. But it's good to know that Menroth seem to be one of the harder factions to play - that probably means the Menroth player will be as slow as me to get to terms with the game. Cryx actually works well with mercenaries too since debuffs don't care who attacks the units. Thus, you get pDenny pirates and p/eDenny gunlines.
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Dec 24, 2012 01:35
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I do know know what you mean by 'get pop' but I will report back, sure  e: holy poo poo I don't know what 'pDenny' or 'p/eDenny' means either!
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Dec 24, 2012 01:35
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krushgroove posted:I do know know what you mean by 'get pop' but I will report back, sure These are warcasters, the prime version of Deneghra or the epic version of Deneghra. Their spell lists and feats are a bit different but both can work well with large numbers of mercenaries.
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Dec 24, 2012 01:38
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krushgroove posted:I do know know what you mean by 'get pop' but I will report back, sure The Prime/Epic naming is dropping off a bit with the second tier of Epic Warcasters showing up, know they're getting numbered. As for pop and drop, when you play against a Protectorate player using pKreoss, read his feat and REMEMBER IT. You do not want to get surprised by it.
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Dec 24, 2012 01:44
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Thanks, OK, I'm sure I'll get it in time. We're starting off with the basic rules that I've downloaded and we should be able to get to the full rules after a few games I'm sure.
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Dec 24, 2012 01:45
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krushgroove posted:Debuffing sounds pretty good to me Cryx sounds like it might be what you want. In terms of knocking them down a peg, I think the biggest edge you can get early on is to be aware that 40K is kind of a tactical kiddie pool compared to Warmachine. You can't swim laps in a kiddie pool, and people moving out of the kiddie pool into the Olympic sized pool might not even think to try to swim laps, and that puts them at a massive disadvantage compared to someone who isn't having their thinking constrained. The next biggest advantage is that 40K is like checkers in that you don't have a king piece that causes you to lose the game if you don't defend it. Warmachine/Hordes is like chess in that you've got a king, and you've got to defend it or you lose. Learning to assassinate early will give you an edge. The game isn't purely assassination based, and a better player won't let you get off an assassination. However, assassination never goes away because you threaten an assassination to get board position. It lets you say: "if you do X, you will lose the game because it will set you up for an assassination and we both know it, so either I win or you don't do X".
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Dec 24, 2012 03:22
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Flipswitch posted:As for pop and drop, when you play against a Protectorate player using pKreoss, read his feat and REMEMBER IT. You do not want to get surprised by it. What can you really do about it other than 'stay the hell away' anyway? I can deal with the Harbinger and I can deal with Severius but I really hate that Kreoss mofo.
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Dec 24, 2012 03:52
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The only thing you can do is lessen the blow of the feat by ensuring your caster doesn't get dropped. Deny the assassination side of it and if possible try to force him to pop it early.
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Dec 24, 2012 04:28
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Can anyone give me an idea of where to go with Khador from a battlebox and a unit of Iron Fangs with the regular UA?
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Dec 24, 2012 04:54
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pIrusk and full Kayazy or Winterguard. Also, Behemoth. pIrusk is scary good.
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Dec 24, 2012 04:57
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Hard to go wrong with a Conquest or Behemoth, Beast 09, a Spriggan, Widowmakers, your selection of casters (Butcher 1, Old Witch, and Sorscha 2 are all quite fun, in my experience), and a War Dog. Kayazi are great, but wait for the plastic Winterguard box before buying more than the UA and Kovnik Joe. I also really like Greylords, but your mileage may vary.
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Dec 24, 2012 05:02
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So as much fun as I am having with eCaine and ALL ASSASSINATIONS, ALL THE TIME, Nemo3 looks to be a nice change of pace. Since I'm mostly using the chunk of the Cygnar book I don't otherwise, how does this sound for 50 pts: Nemo3 and Finch -Thunderhead Stormblades -3 Storm Gunners -Stormblade Infantry Officer and Standard Bearer -Marshaled Stormclad Full Unit of Stormguard (reduced in cost because of Nemo3's Tier list) Full Unit of Storm Lances The idea of course being to squeeze as much as possible out of Nemo's feat turn. Like I said I never use any of these besides maybe Thunderhead so I have no idea if this list is viable (for friendly games at least, not tourneys).
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Dec 24, 2012 05:32
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Tanon posted:pIrusk and full Kayazy or Winterguard. Also, Behemoth. pIrusk is scary good. So will this go OK? I don't mind Kayazy but I think the Winterguard look lovely and don't want to paint a horde of them. I figure this is Kayazy/Widowmakers kill man size targets while the fangs defend and blow up big things. Behemoth (who I've loving met before a couple of times) will chill out with Irusk and bombard poo poo. Faction: Khador Casters: 1/1 Points: 35/35 Kommandant Irusk (*6pts) * Behemoth (13pts) * War dog (1pts) Iron Fang Pikemen (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts) * Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard (2pts) Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts) * Kayazy Assassin Underboss (2pts) Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (4pts) Kayazy Eliminators (3pts) I haven't bought the battlebox yet, I might just can it and work on getting this stuff. Should I bother with full Kayazy or what? I've only really played against death star style Khador and my Trolls do what they do, but with panache. e: are plastic winterguard updated models? That might convince me.
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Dec 24, 2012 06:40
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Primus posted:So as much fun as I am having with eCaine and ALL ASSASSINATIONS, ALL THE TIME, Nemo3 looks to be a nice change of pace. Since I'm mostly using the chunk of the Cygnar book I don't otherwise, how does this sound for 50 pts: Well I can tell you from experience, those stormblades and storm lances will pretty much never hit anything with their guns without a unit of rangers. And you're probably going to need a journeyman in your list somewhere. Also, why marshal the Stormclad? The Stormblades have no drive and it means that you can't take advantage of Finch's special ability to top it off for 1 focus. J Bjelke-Postersen posted:e: are plastic winterguard updated models? That might convince me. They aren't out yet, but yeah, they're new models. And they're pretty awesome.
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Dec 24, 2012 07:37
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nvm
a pale ghost fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Dec 24, 2012 |
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Dec 24, 2012 08:50
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Speaking of the journeyman war-caster, how effective is he? The more I look at Cygnar the more I think that they will be the warmachine army I'm interested in. They have quite a few bad-rear end looking warcasters. N3mo looks like he's the best rationale for light warjacks in a system that generally says heavies are more focus efficient. If you ran him with 6 Firefly Light Warjacks [just for example, not serious list planning] he would be giving out 12 focus. This seems hilarious and fun. How well does Cygnar do against hordes armies, since a lot of their toys seem to be about dealing with warjacks.
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Dec 24, 2012 11:15
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Alpha Phoenix posted:Speaking of the journeyman war-caster, how effective is he? The more I look at Cygnar the more I think that they will be the warmachine army I'm interested in. They have quite a few bad-rear end looking warcasters. The Journeyman should go in pretty much every list you make, along with the Squire.
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Dec 24, 2012 11:34
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The Aberrant posted:The Journeyman should go in pretty much every list you make, along with the Squire. Just so long as you don't actually use him to run anything, of course. 
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Dec 24, 2012 11:35
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Junior wishes he could be as awesome as Strangeways when he grows up.
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Dec 24, 2012 12:08
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I remember when I lost a member of Rhoven's Posse to a freestrike from Strangeways. loving Cygnar bullshit as usual.
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Dec 24, 2012 13:59
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Flipswitch posted:I remember when I lost a member of Rhoven's Posse to a freestrike from Strangeways. Cygnar is loving us again... Seriously I don't know why people feel like they're entitled to whine about the faction. Unless it's a heavy disruption list Cygnar always give my Trolls lots of challenges and have some real dick moves up their sleeves. I'd argue they're a little more difficult to beat than the "powergaming" lists sometimes because you never really know what you're going to get and they've got some of the best single purpose casters in the game (loving CAINE).
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Dec 24, 2012 14:27
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There's a very good reason why Terminus is my second caster in every tourney I play my Cryx at, and that reason is Caine. (And too a lesser extent Ravyn)
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Dec 24, 2012 15:15
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J Bjelke-Postersen posted:Cygnar is loving us again... (Not to mention like all their spells/feats have just an additional line of gently caress you added to the end of it which drives me batty)
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Dec 24, 2012 15:21
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Alright, once and for all. Cygnar players (well, S.J. and I on here, mainly) bitch about Cygnar's IN-FACTION MELEE INFANTRY. Our casters are amazing, our jacks are very good (if a bit redundant now that Stormwall has crashed the scene), and we have really good ranged infantry units (Rangers, Gun Mages, Longgunners in certain lists). BUT, our melee infantry is universally worse than Mercenary options. If you need crappy defense melee beaters, Forgeguard are better than Stormblades hands down, even with the UA, Stormgunners, shots, etc. All that tech is just not as reliable. If you need a Reach tarpit, Halbardiers are better than Stormguard because you can either get the same number for 2/3 the price or twice as many for 1/3 more. Halbardiers also trump Sword Knights as a 6-point cheap tarpit because of Reach and Set Defense allowing them to cover a far greater area. Boomhowlers take the role of the "really loving hard to kill, gently caress you sir" tarpit away from Shield Walling Precursors, because Boomhowlers can use our phenomenal buff support and Precursors can't. Plus, Boomhowlers can abuse our ranged buffs (and yes, I know Stormblades can too but they can't tarpit for poo poo) to give them some pretty dangerous attacks at range. Generally speaking, most competitive Cygnar lists with include one of our beatstick casters, one to two jacks (usually Stormwall, Rowdy, Centurion, or possibly Defender as a second heavy), Gun Mages, Rangers, Squire, Junior, and then Mercs. If you go more Gunline-y, you may end up using double Longgunners, but it's not at all an easy block to take, especially for 20 points. Tl;dr, Cygnar's main bitch is our terrible in-faction melee infantry. If people bitch about anything else, then they are loving terrible and need to shut the gently caress up. Also: J Bjelke-Postersen posted:So will this go OK? I don't mind Kayazy but I think the Winterguard look lovely and don't want to paint a horde of them. I figure this is Kayazy/Widowmakers kill man size targets while the fangs defend and blow up big things. Behemoth (who I've loving met before a couple of times) will chill out with Irusk and bombard poo poo. That seems pretty drat good to me. Kayazy with Iron Flesh are of course a loving pain in the rear end to handle, but so are Sheild Wall'd Pikeman at 16/18. Also, either unit with Battle Lust with gently caress everyone day right up, and the usual trick with Battle Lusted mini-feated Kayazy running through your lines and tearing apart the enemy caster still works like a charm, believe it or not. You might run into some problems with infantry hate, but that's Khador's problem in general and the Iron Fangs can take a surprising amount of POW 8 blast damage. One thing I might consider doing is trying to fit in the Great Bears, which you could do by dropping the Widowmakers and Eliminators and picking up the Great Bears and a Manhunter. I actually like either combination, but Blood Lust'd Great Bears are 5 dice on the charge and 4 dice on the backswing each.
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Dec 24, 2012 16:08
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Happy holidays to you guys, hope your stocking/tree/etc. is full of robots and monsters!
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Dec 24, 2012 17:02
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Tanon posted:Cygnar You and me are like bros, bro
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Dec 24, 2012 17:19
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I've been trying to pick up Terminus, but I'm not sure where to start. He's an assassin, primarily, right? So you want Wulfe from out of faction. What in faction stuff might you want? Reaper or Malice for positioning, Wrathe to extend his threat range by an inch, what else?
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Dec 24, 2012 17:40
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counterspin posted:I've been trying to pick up Terminus, but I'm not sure where to start. He's an assassin, primarily, right? So you want Wulfe from out of faction. What in faction stuff might you want? Reaper or Malice for positioning, Wrathe to extend his threat range by an inch, what else? He's going to try to win by assassination, but that doesn't mean it's the only thing he does. Turns out an entire army of tough models is pretty good! Something like this is okay: System: Warmachine Faction: Cryx Casters: 1/1 Points: 50/50 Lich Lord Terminus (*4pts) * Erebus (8pts) Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts) * Bane Thrall Officer & Standard (3pts) Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (5pts) Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (5pts) Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls (2pts) Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls (2pts) Satyxis Raiders (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts) * Satyxis Raider Sea Witch (2pts) The Withershadow Combine (5pts) Darragh Wrathe (4pts) Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan (2pts)
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Dec 24, 2012 17:51
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S.J. posted:He's going to try to win by assassination, but that doesn't mean it's the only thing he does. Turns out an entire army of tough models is pretty good! Something like this is okay: Terminus is so fun for grinding your opponent's army to dust and laughing at him trying to retaliate.
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Dec 24, 2012 18:12
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Why Erebus? I looked over his card and I feel like I'm missing something.
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Dec 24, 2012 18:35
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counterspin posted:Why Erebus? I looked over his card and I feel like I'm missing something. He already has overtake, and Terminus can give him Berzerk. That's a lot of potential souls on feat turn.
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Dec 24, 2012 18:42
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Satyxis in a Terminus list? My god I hate Satyxis. Even pSev hates Satyxis, don't you pSev? Yes. \ 
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Dec 24, 2012 19:08
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I picked up the heavy warjack (devastator, demolished, spriggan) kit, and I'm debating in what to finally make it into. I have a small Karchev force that I mostly have just to paint up, but I want it to be somewhat playable as well. Right now I'm thinking the spriggan will be best. With reach it has the longest threat range, and on the approach it can help a destroyer shooting (knocking out stealth and smoke while being towed). The devastator and demolisher look like they both do the same job, tanks with crowd clearing abilities... Regarding bulldoze: can I declare a charge against a far model and bump any other models in the way with it? As long as I avoid free strikes this would give the spriggan even better penetration into enemy lines.
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Dec 24, 2012 20:23
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LordAba posted:I picked up the heavy warjack (devastator, demolished, spriggan) kit, and I'm debating in what to finally make it into. I have a small Karchev force that I mostly have just to paint up, but I want it to be somewhat playable as well. I've used magnets in every heavy warjack kit I've gotten to good effect. It isn't all that hard for Cygnar or Menoth and there are a lot of tutorials online about doing it. Why choose one warjack when you can have all 3 available to you?
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Dec 24, 2012 20:27
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The Aberrant posted:. While this is true, I've found it to be a bit of a trap. Cygnar is just too conditional of a faction to really have an auto include. Cygnar really needs to avoid bogging itself down with too many models that don't do work. I don't feel that the Squire is worth 2 points unless the caster needs the extended control or re-roll. Except eCaine because of how his feat works. 3 points for Arcane Shield is pretty steep unless the list contains an Arcane Shield target where it will make more than a 3 point difference. The list should generally have a sentinel in it too before Jr is worth it. If you can find a way to safely run some sort of jack on Jr, he becomes an auto-include. However, if you don't have a target for Arcane Shield that will push it over a tipping point, Jr is a trap. I also never include strangeways unless I also want him in the list for the mechanic ability to protect against losing a weapon or cortex system. He isn't worth 2 points for power booster.
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Dec 24, 2012 20:31
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None of the casters I typically run have Arcane Shield (eHaley, eCaine, Siege) so Jr. is almost auto-include in most of my games.
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Dec 24, 2012 21:32
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Cyclomatic posted:While this is true, I've found it to be a bit of a trap. Cygnar is just too conditional of a faction to really have an auto include. 2 extra inches of CNTL is worth it with any caster, bar none. On top of that, an extra focus every turn for three turns is mind-boggingly good; combined it's basically as if every caster you have is +1 to their FOCUS stat, PLUS the re-roll. There is no list that I would not include the Squire in. None. (except pCaine in some instances, Sylas is better. But that's the one exception) 3 points IS steep for Arcane Shield, but it's so loving good that it's also an auto-include. There is no list I can imagine where having +3 armor on SOMETHING wouldn't be fantastic. Also, it allows your caster to get +3 armor without spending any of their own focus, which can make for some potential monster camps if need be. Whether on the Stormwall, or a unit or Horgenhold, Boomhowlers, or hell, even Stormnouns, it is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS useful. Strangeways isn't an auto-include in general, but he is very good. If you have a need for Power Booster (the ATGM + Defender boat) he's worth the points. I'll agree that Power Booster alone isn't generally worth the two points, but there are definitely instances where it is. EDIT: I also just showed Alpha how good Warpath is Feral to the face!
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Dec 24, 2012 21:42
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Actually Sylas is better with pCaine, Nemo 1 and 2, and possibly pStryker and Sloan.
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Dec 24, 2012 21:51
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S.J. posted:Actually Sylas is better with pCaine, Nemo 1 and 2, and possibly pStryker and Sloan. Ehhhh.... I think he's only clearly better with pCaine, and possibly Sloan. An argument can be made for the others. But I don't really feel like typing that much :-p
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Dec 24, 2012 22:01
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