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Frionnel posted:Take this chapter for example. You have a few people who know about the incident discussing it in a closed room in an area not even the teaching staff can enter easily, but they can't be specific because of the reader, so they just dance around the issue with things like "that student" or "that incident". It feels really unnatural and leads to lines and lines that don't really mean anything. Like "Metal Gear!?", "that student" is one of those things that reads more naturally in Japanese (at least in fiction, I don't know if it would happen in actual conversation). If everyone in a conversation knows what they're talking about, they'll have no problem using nothing but what would be pronouns and vague references in English. Just another part of Japanese that doesn't translate well, basically.
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Dec 25, 2012 08:45
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Zandar posted:Like "Metal Gear!?", "that student" is one of those things that reads more naturally in Japanese (at least in fiction, I don't know if it would happen in actual conversation). If everyone in a conversation knows what they're talking about, they'll have no problem using nothing but what would be pronouns and vague references in English. Just another part of Japanese that doesn't translate well, basically. It's worth noting that this section was even more problematic than usual, because I had to avoid revealing any genders before the book does.
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Dec 25, 2012 08:52
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Frionnel posted:Take this chapter for example. You have a few people who know about the incident discussing it in a closed room in an area not even the teaching staff can enter easily, but they can't be specific because of the reader, so they just dance around the issue with things like "that student" or "that incident". It feels really unnatural and leads to lines and lines that don't really mean anything. In Japanese, on the other hand, omitting the subject in a sentence is perfectly valid, and is in fact quite common, as long as you make it clear through context who or what the subject is. So in Japanese, if I was in the middle of talking about what I did yesterday, I could say "Played Dangan Ronpa." and it would make perfect sense to whomever I was talking with. Of course, you see the problem now: a sentence like that is impossible to translate literally, because in English the sentence is not valid without a subject. In most cases you could just add a subject in translation, but in the book, the omission of the subject is purposeful to keep the mystery going. So you end up having to translate it as something really awkward like "That student caused the incident." Unfortunately, there's really no way around it unless you want to do some major rewriting.
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Dec 25, 2012 09:19
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orenronen posted:It's worth noting that this section was even more problematic than usual, because I had to avoid revealing any genders before the book does. I figured it was the differences between Japanese and English pronouns. I think a little bit of the roughness left by the Japanese leaving the subject implicit or to refer to "that _____" can be smoothed over if the word "that" is occasionally changed to "the" or "this". Like this:
These cases sound more natural to me, don't change the meaning significantly, and don't add any information that shouldn't be on the board yet. I hope this doesn't sound like a nitpicky suggestion.  Anywhoo, Dangan Ronpa 0- I was just wondering earlier today whether it would even end up a mystery story since as a novel it's not obliged to share a genre with the video games. Looks like it is one after all! I honestly forgot about the mysterious murder-room from the first game. Falls Down Stairs fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Dec 25, 2012 |
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Dec 25, 2012 09:30
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Falls Down Stairs posted:
You can make arguments for either, really. It just comes down a lot of the time how the sentence flows. In this case, I would say that using "that" to describe the student would work, as they've already addressed as the other student. It really doesn't matter, mind you, as either will still work no matter what, and the translation is still good and comprehensible either way.
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Dec 25, 2012 09:52
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Fiend Computer posted:You can make arguments for either, really. It just comes down a lot of the time how the sentence flows. In this case, I would say that using "that" to describe the student would work, as they've already addressed as the other student. Yeah I might have just homed in on ways that section could be different because I realized (even before orenronen actually said so) that part of the problem was that in English conversation "he" or "she" really ought to be used but either would give away more information than is present in the Japanese.
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Dec 25, 2012 09:59
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HoneyBoy posted:Oh and here's something to note, 13 victims and 2 survivors, that makes for a nice familiar number of 15, doesn't it? While I would agree, it's been basically confirmed that Hope's Peak classes are 16 students. DR1 had our cast of 15, plus the 'mysterious 16th student. DR2 has 16 students right off the bat. So, what I'm wondering is who this class's 16th student is. We have 13 victims, 1 suspect, and 1 comatose. I'd guess the person who first found the scene is the 16th student, but not entirely sure. Extra guess: The person who found the crime scene/room was probably Ryouko?
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Dec 25, 2012 10:59
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Baita posted:Extra guess: The person who found the crime scene/room was probably Ryouko? This could probably work seeing as the Head wants to keep this incident under wraps, but at the same time it contradicts their wanting to figure it out themselves so as to better hide it. If they suspected her I don't think they'd urge Matsuda to abandon his treatment/project just yet. It's best to just wait for the next few updates, I feel like these are things that are just waiting to make themselves known and not actually part of the big mystery. It's not so much the "who" but the "why" that this game seems to drive towards.
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Dec 25, 2012 11:32
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slowbeef posted:Happy Holidays, Dangan Ronpa 2 thread! I'm still sorry I made that first-post guess in the first LP.  Sorry about the problems I caused. Thank you for the great extra interview. It was great to hear a bunch of behind the scenes information and opinions from the translator.
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Dec 25, 2012 12:27
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Here is a bit of useful info: Since we now know that Matsuda belongs to the 77th class of the school, I went to check the DR1 thread and Naegi class was the 78th. So that could only mean that this novel should take place in the year Naegi and co, were at the school or a year before that since Matsuda is one year older. EDIT: Oh crap but that also means that this game's cast could be two years or even more older than the DR1 cast instead of one year like I thought! I mean if they were one year older Matsuda would be in the same class right?......Wait, with Togami here he could be taking Matsuda's spot maybe? Argh I will stop now, no use thinking about this too much since we don't have much information to go with.. IceBorg fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Dec 25, 2012 |
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Dec 25, 2012 15:17
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I suspect "that student" is who controls Monobear in the DR1 stinger.
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Dec 25, 2012 16:24
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Rodyle posted:I suspect "that student" is who controls Monobear in the DR1 stinger.
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Dec 25, 2012 16:27
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HoneyBoy posted:I'm more curious about Matsuda now, he's obviously some kind of gifted scientist, but what is it about him that allows him to command such influence, why exactly can he intimidate these rigid figures? I would've thought the Heads of Hope's Peak would be some of the coldest most intimidating people around. What's his SHSL talent is what I'm asking, basically. It's not his talent--which is neurology--it's his personality. Just because someone has an SHSL talent doesn't mean it's their only feature, or even their most notable one--think about Fukawa/Syo in particular. Redmark posted:Is there any good book (non-fiction or fiction) on the subject? One of the chapters in "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat" deals with it. If this is the kind of thing you're interested in, the book has a lot of anecdotes about other weird neurological/psychological phenomena.
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Dec 25, 2012 16:43
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SystemLogoff posted:I'm still sorry I made that first-post guess in the first LP. And on that note, I'm still kind of sorry that I drew the picture that more or less sparked the whole "JUNKOS" thing
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Dec 25, 2012 16:45
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Oh man, he talks about me in the podcast. That's really fun.  The game seems to be winding up to the scenario a lot slower it feels than the first one. I almost feel they're trying to give you the hope that you won't have to do the murders. Actually, I wonder if this game could work without murders? It seems the option might work well with the rabbit being around.
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Dec 25, 2012 18:19
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Thanks for the interesting interview, first time I have listened to. A bit off topic but Orenronen if you are interested in more Japanese FMV games with live actors, I know of a few you may or may not know like this and others on the site, also Squaresoft had one back in the day called Another Mind. Of course in recent years there were those stupid AKB48 games as well Anyway I love the meta-aspect of the beginning of DR2 with it being presented at least initially like some type of happy and cheesy gal game complete with that type of opening, very curious to see what sort of twists the game can throw at us later on.
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Dec 25, 2012 18:45
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Yukitsu posted:Oh man, he talks about me in the podcast. That's really fun. I don't think you should be proud of this fact.
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Dec 25, 2012 20:03
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Fuyuhiko Kuzuryuu would fit right into "Baccano!", step it up fast rhyming singers this is what gangsters should look like. Chiaki Nanami, a gamer who is a girl, love the way she handles talking, more people should read their own lines before saying OK to the script that lives gives them. Loved the Podcast but I don't know if you stressed the spoiler warning enough.
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Dec 25, 2012 20:30
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Conro101 posted:I wonder how many people started reading the LP because of slowbeef constantly mentioning it on Retsutalk. I actually did. I didn't know there was a DR LP until then. 
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Dec 25, 2012 20:58
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The discussion on the podcast about early spoilers brought up an interesting thing I noticed. The whole JUNKOS thing was started so early and brought up so much it was more of a joke then an actual theory. There were people who did try to use it as a theory, yes, but most of us just used it as kind of a joke, representing the craziest theories some people came up with. "I bet the school is actually a space station!" "Yeah, and also JUNKO'S behind it. Right." So when we neared endgame, and it looked like this crazy joke was more and more realistic, it caused a sort of disbelief. I mean, it was loving JUNKOS. No way that's really what happened right? And I think the great reveal of Queen Junko brought us all together as a thread, as every one of us thought when Oren posted that update, "God dammit. It really was Junko." I don't think we'd really have the same effect with just a few guys going "I TOLD YOU ALL!" That said, it only works over a gradual period of time. Reading the thread all at once, with all the JUNKOS posts, leaving it foremost in your head, is a huge spoiler for the big reveal. But the slow trickle of updates really helped keep it from ruined the thread completely. Anyway, just my thoughts on the whole thing. I won't recommend anyone read the thread until it's archived, or at least skip all the other posts, because you just can't recreate that magic coming in later.
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Dec 25, 2012 21:48
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Conro101 posted:The discussion on the podcast about early spoilers brought up an interesting thing I noticed. The whole JUNKOS thing was started so early and brought up so much it was more of a joke then an actual theory. There were people who did try to use it as a theory, yes, but most of us just used it as kind of a joke, representing the craziest theories some people came up with. I think that the Retsupurae sort of missed the whole point of spoilers. Later in the game (The Sakura trial to some degree as well as the Naegi trial) the actual events in question began to take second priority to the overarching questions in the game. Who is Monobear, why is Monobear, what's going on outside? For the rest of the Let's Play, I was able to mostly focus on the here & now of what's actually going on this one individual trial, the big overarching mystery be-damned, but at that point the mysteries almost became a bit of a nuisance in the way of figuring out just what the gently caress was going on. "Welp, Sakura died. I'm sure I'll miss her eventually". I don't necessarily know anyone who will look up spoilers at the beginning of a game/book/movie/etc, but I can see the appeal once you know the characters, you know the basic shape of the plot, and you've seen a bit of the setup. That's one of the places in which I feel like DR1 somewhat failed. They set up Alter-Ego as this great savior and almost a resurrection of Chihiro... but then he was hidden away or stolen or out of sight and we never really built up any sort of emotional connection to it, and so the execution felt very flat. That contributed to the Sakura trial feeling, well, useless in comparison to the Naegi/Kirigiri trial and the initial "Set up" trials, and I could see someone saying "Well, gently caress this, I just want to know who's behind this poo poo" at that point in particular (though I never did this myself).
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Dec 25, 2012 22:13
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Conro101 posted:Anyway, just my thoughts on the whole thing. I won't recommend anyone read the thread until it's archived, or at least skip all the other posts, because you just can't recreate that magic coming in later. I don't know if it was as incredible as it was for you guys, but I spent the past week reading the thread from start to finish and it left a pretty big impact on me too. I wouldn't say the magic is completely lost. For the most part, it felt like I was there with everyone too, even though the Dangan Ronpa 2 thread had already started. I've recommended the thread to a few people, but I always tell them to read the actual thread too--for the most part. The speculation is insightful, and it's interesting to compare. The reactions really add to the experience as well. In all honesty, it was a different experience compared to the majority of other LPs in the forum that I read. It actually feels like a bit of a shame that it'll be lost to most when the thread joins the archive. CrashScreen fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Dec 25, 2012 |
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Dec 25, 2012 22:41
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Call Now posted:I don't think you should be proud of this fact. Hey, if you're going to be the only low content post that gets probated out of hundreds of low content posts in a thread, and then you get explicitly called out over it in a youtube video, and then the white knights and self appointed mods get into a bit of an argument over the nonsense that was really just all supposed to be fun, you should probably just take it in stride. The only other option is being one of those ragey bastards that doesn't have a sense of humour. Not to say that it's not an actual prediction. I think that one character is definitely flying off the deep end at some point. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 25, 2012 23:21
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Normally, I don't mind spoilers for stuff like this. In fact, I didn't actually start following the first thread until I'd already spoiled myself on the results of the first four trials by looking up information about the game elsewhere. At that point I was like, "Okay, I gotta see where this poo poo's heading." For Dangan Ronpa 2, I resolved to go in completely fresh, without any spoilers, so I could enjoy it the way most everybody else enjoyed the first thread. Which is why I'm annoyed as hell that a few weeks ago, when searching for fanart of a Dangan Ronpa 1 character, I ended up finding an image of that character that also included a DR2 character. Because of the content of the image itself, now I have preconceived notions about that DR2 character and can't speculate on anything concerning that character, lest I taint the experience for everyone else. And it sucks.  So yeah. On the one hand, normally I don't mind spoilers, but for something like one of these games, I can see how spoilers can ruin the whole experience. (I'd also advise against looking for anything Dangan Ronpa-related on the web, regardless of whether it's from the first or second game, because apparently fanartists out there aren't shy about spoilers.)
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Dec 25, 2012 23:31
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Ah, spoilers. I think I may have accidentally spoiled myself on a character in a pretty big way. It happened to be in fanart for an unrelated show, and the artist thought it would be a good idea to incorporate a DR2 character who I assume shared certain characteristics as was the theme of the cross-over fanart. It's not so bad that I know this now, because what matters most is the "why" and "how." If you had told me that Chihiro was going to die before s/he did I wouldn't have minded, because when it finally happened it was far beyond what I expected would happen (the whole Alter Ego thing).
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Dec 25, 2012 23:40
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I also spoiled myself on the first game, I was kinda stupid when I decided to look for fanart and expect not to be spoiled well at least I was only spoiled on Mukuro's appearence and the pieces of fanart didn't include the Junko connection from what I noticed so that was lucky, but yeah I was dumb. The best example on how easy is to get spoiled on the first game is that you can't even tell people to use google to find the first thread.....they will get spoiled if they remember one of the images it shows sometimes that its of the real Junko. I will be smarter this time and not search stuff.
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Dec 26, 2012 00:05
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Well, I got semi-spoiled for DR1, so I just made sure to play DR2 the day it came out. I will be unable to join the fun here, but observing the poo poo people will come up with when things get loco will be just as fun.
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Dec 26, 2012 00:20
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slowbeef posted:
I finally had time to listen to this and I'm glad I did. The translation chat was really interesting and I'm really looking forward to what Dangan Ronpa 2 has in store for us. I sped through the original Dangan Ronpan thread over a couple of days and I was only reading a handful of posts after each update so I missed out on a lot of the speculation but even then I picked up on the JUNKOS thing and I think I was more surprised than I would have been had I not read the thread by the time I got to the big reveal.
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Dec 26, 2012 04:50
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http://polsy.org.uk/play/yt/?vurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DoTqon3RqUy4 Here's an amazing To LOVE Ru x Dangan Ronpa video someone on nico made that a friend just linked me to. Not sure if this counts as NSFW or not, but either way, be careful. Everything is hand drawn, which I find awesome. Edit: Changed it quickly to a polsy link. just in case. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 26, 2012 07:17
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Baita posted:Here's an amazing To LOVE Ru x Dangan Ronpa video someone on nico made that a friend just linked me to. Whatever you may think of it, my OP specifically requests you ask me before posting fan art that is not your own. If you had, I would've told you to wait with it, since I don't want something that shows the entire cast in such detail before we're even done with the introductions.
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Dec 26, 2012 07:25
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Did you run that by Oren before you posted it? e: guess you didn't
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Dec 26, 2012 07:26
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Half of that video is just creepy drawings.
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Dec 26, 2012 07:27
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Baita posted:
Well watching that made me feel uncomfortably goony as all hell Pretty well drawn though SOL_Cambot fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Dec 26, 2012 |
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Dec 26, 2012 07:29
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Between that video and some comments in the retsutalk episode I'm really hoping this game doesn't put quite as much focus on the whole "anime girls in swimsuits at the beach" thing as I'm worrying its going to.
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Dec 26, 2012 07:33
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Well it is based on a fan-service anime opening....and besides a rather  one I don't see how the rest are that bad, since its about people in a tropical island and stuff, so it makes sense.I found it kinda cool actually, and really well done. But enough about that because yeah not asking oren is no good, heck I would even suggest not asking to post fanart until we get out of the prologue at least. IceBorg fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Dec 26, 2012 |
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Dec 26, 2012 07:36
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As well drawn as that is it's still showing off like half the girls in underwear or less and is super creepy. Scrub-Niggurath fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Dec 26, 2012 |
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Dec 26, 2012 08:08
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Requested_Username posted:As well drawn as that is it's still showing off like half the girls in underwear or less and is super creepy. While I'm not disagreeing with you, considering this is an anime game that takes place on a beach, we're probably in for worse in the actual game itself.
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Dec 26, 2012 08:14
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Really looking forward to someone dying to divert the topic from anime swimsuits. But I do feel like maybe we've raised the expectations for this game a little too high? When you keep saying that it's 'not your typical anime game' it just makes it more jarring that the game might dare to include a little blatant fanservice (that we haven't even seen yet). It comes with the territory so let's all just deal with it and move on. I've heard that this game is like twice as long? Also that the mysteries are more interesting? There's no reason to get hung up on this. Creepiness aside though I have as little tolerance for spoilers as anyone in here.
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Dec 26, 2012 11:26
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  Beautiful Ruin [Summer Salt] Let's see what's upstairs.   This looks like... the hotel restaurant.  It's large enough to host a banquet. A sense of space you can only get in southern countries... A sense of space? We're trapped on an island, you know.  I wonder if we really are trapped... What else could it be...? ............  Oh, well. We'd better get on with the introductions. ...Look, there's two people talking over there. Re: Junk Food for a Dashing Youth That's right... It's terrible if it gets swollen by poison. That's why you must suck the poison out with your mouth as soon as possible...  Poison? I see... H... Hey... do you have a second? Music fades out Sigh... Just as I was getting close......Close?  Beautiful Ruin [Summer Salt] ...Good day. Er... Good day. My name's Hajime Hinata. Nice to meet you.  You're that new face around here, aren't you?   My name is Teruteru Hanamura. They've been calling me a "Super High-school Level Cook", but...  I prefer "Super High-school Level Chef" myself. It has a much more... sophisticated air, don't you think? Teruteru Hanamura: Super High-school Level Cook  Hanamura is voiced by Jun Fukuyama, a prolific voice actor probably best known for his role as Lelouch in the Code Geass franchise. Hm hm hm... A pleasure to meet you.  Oh! Now that you come to mention it, we two still have yet to introduce ourselves. Please excuse my lateness!  My name is Sonia Nevermind. Sonia Nevermind: Super High-school Level Princess Sonia is voiced by Miho Arakawa, a newcomer to the voice acting scene who came to sudden fame after playing Himari in 2011’s Mawaru Penguindrum. Trivia: this is the second actress in the game script writer Kodaka asked for specifically. It seems he’s a bit of a Penguindrum fan. Honestly, you should be too. I come from the small European country Novoselic. I came to Japan as an exchange student. It is a pleasure to make your esteemed acquaintance! May we endeavour to maintain a lasting friendship! Y... You too...Pure white skin that looks like porcelain... Blue eyes like precious jewels... Sparkling golden hair... She has the kind of appeal that makes you just want to keep looking at her, forever.   ...Are you dazzled? I guess that's to be expected. Sonia-san is a "Super High-school Level Princess". She's actual royalty.Super High-school Level... Princess...? Usually, I'd be surprised by something like that, but... ...For someone as beautiful and overflowing with grace as her, such a title doesn't seem at all out of place. Um, this may seem a measure impudent... but... if I may be perfectly honest, that I am here pleases me a little. Eh? It does? Why?  In my own country, I had not a single friend my own age who was my equal in status. And so, for everyone to gather and partake in this group activity... It is a feeling most novel!  ...I applaud you all! Applaud...? Um, T... Thank you.Somehow... I feel like I should kneel down before her.   Hope Shard Acquired Hey, hey, you three. Are you trying to keep me out of your little group? No... not at all... It sure fits you to go straight to the restaurant, Hanamura-kun. Does it fit the expectations of a Super High-school Level Chef? Heh heh heh... I'd be lying if I said it didn't. And since I don't want to be a liar, I'll tell you the truth right here. Yeah. It very much fits my expectations. The urban mood of my home neighborhood Minato is fine, but this kind of rural atmosphere is also magnificent. Hm hm hm hm! Minato is a busy district in central Tokyo. Hey, Hanamura... Are you going to tell me how refined I am? Oh, you shouldn't! That's not it... Aren't you worried about our situation? Worried? What is there to be worried about? I am happy to be here. Happy...? Why...? This is serious business, so listen well. Music halts I’ve been keeping an eye on Pekoyama-san, and it seems she keeps her guard surprisingly down. What do you think? ...Huh? Re: Junk Food for a Dashing Youth In all likelihood, it's a black thong. I'd like to hear your opinion. This is a matter worthy of serious discussion. Go ahead. You may begin. ...No, I think I'll pass.  Other than that, and this is also a bit unexpected... That Sonia-san over there seems to be surprisingly naive. I mean, aren't princesses supposed to have a certain level of common sense? For example, if I tell her the lower part of my body got swollen by poison, and ask her to suck it out with her mouth...Is that... what he was talking to her about before...?! Music halts ...Excuse me, what are you discussing?  Oh, I will tell you all about it later! Beautiful Ruin [Summer Salt] ...And we will stop you if we see it. Forcibly. In any case, it seems there's a chance to broaden my horizons by living on this island. I'm looking forward to it. After all, in both cooking and in love, passion is the most important thing! Hoh hoh hoh hoh!This guy... is a different kind of dangerous.  Hope Shard Acquired Sonia Nevermind Height: 174cm / Weight: 50kg / Chest: 83cm / Blood type: A Birthday: October 13 Likes: The occult, Japan Hates: Umeboshi Title: Super High-school Level Princess  Teruteru Hanamura Height: 133cm / Weight: 69kg / Chest: 88cm / Blood type: A Birthday: September 2 Likes: Mom Hates: Junk food Title: Super High-school Level Cook orenronen fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Dec 26, 2012 |
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Dec 26, 2012 16:01
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Well Hanamura can go straight to hell, he's worse than Yamada  Sonia is gonna be the more interesting one, the question is if she's playing it straight by being so naive/lonely or if she is running a long con.
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Dec 26, 2012 16:08
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