|
my new years resolution is to build something cool with erlang
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 00:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 8, 2024 20:43 |
|
|
turing tarpit supremacy
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 00:38
|
|
|
hurrlang
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 00:41
|
|
|
tef posted:eh you sorta come to terms with it and find new ways to make yourself unhappy quoth the buddha, nevermore
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 00:43
|
|
|
2013: the year to finally learn java???
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 00:48
|
|
|
sure learn the language that is so pathetic it cost google untold billions to get working on phones
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 00:51
|
|
|
0xB16B00B5 posted:sure learn the language that is so pathetic it cost google untold billions to get working on phones they shoulda fuckin used c++ and qt imho
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 00:54
|
|
|
tef posted:"conspiracy of optimism" nice
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 00:54
|
|
|
rotor posted:they shoulda fuckin used c++ and qt imho What's the backstory on this? Was Java especially horrible in mysterious ways? Wouldn't some of the same problems have come up no matter what language they tried jamming into a little bitty phone?
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 00:56
|
|
|
oracle wrote their own (bad) jvm instead of licensing one from sun/oracle.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 00:56
|
|
|
gucci void main posted:2013: the year to finally learn java??? gently caress the haters java owns (mostly) rotor posted:they shoulda fuckin used c++ and qt imho unironically this
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 00:57
|
|
|
c++ is old and bad and so is qt.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 00:57
|
|
|
prefect posted:What's the backstory on this? Was Java especially horrible in mysterious ways? Wouldn't some of the same problems have come up no matter what language they tried jamming into a little bitty phone? no they had to gently caress around with it until it didn't violate any patents (lol good job on that one goog)
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 00:57
|
|
|
Cocoa Crispies posted:a language that can't fight back is like a car where you can't disable traction control, cool if all you want to do is boring stuff slowly really, java is a language where you have to go against the grain of it, to make it work well. look at 'effective java 2nd ed'. you have to go out of your way to defensively copy, singletons are hard (most get it wrong), you have to opt in to final, rather than opt-out. the type system has holes in it, static members are a total hack. i am led to believe that the c# team learned from this and made a language that made the right thing less hard to do, and made bad things harder.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:25
|
|
|
Jerry SanDisky posted:my new years resolution is to build something cool with erlang after a while you will click about the following erlang things process dictionaries are a necessary evil, but you can avoid them instead of worrying about objects, you worry about processes. supervision is incredible and otp is the best bit of erlang string handling is *still* painful beyond belief, binaries less so processes are *entirely* state machines, and tail recursion means you don't worry about stack growth. so where erlang works is handling opaque lumps of data, with a bunch of state machines that can copy information between them, organized in a tree. so you will have to write some sort of network service if you want to understand why erlang is need.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:28
|
|
|
rotor posted:they shoulda fuckin used c++ and qt imho yes native compilation and more control over object lifetimes but oh god qt/c++. please no. not to say it would be much worse but it certainly wouldn't be much better
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:34
|
|
|
tef posted:so you will have to write some sort of network service if you want to understand why erlang is need. write a Really Good irc server, something at least as good as http://github.com/sstephenson/hector
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:35
|
|
|
i liked qt :snobon:
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:35
|
|
|
rotor posted:no they had to gently caress around with it until it didn't violate any patents (lol good job on that one goog) register machines are superior, eat it forth-havers
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:35
|
|
|
:snobon: brought to you by old eyes and lovely osx font rendering
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:35
|
|
|
rotor posted::snobon: brought to you by old eyes and lovely osx font rendering ban for rotor is old joke oh wait they repealed that as u were
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:37
|
|
|
tef posted:after a while you will click about the following erlang things thank you for this, I have some ideas kicking around so I will look into all this  Cocoa Crispies posted:write a Really Good irc server, something at least as good as http://github.com/sstephenson/hector I was thinking irc or xmpp or something like that rotor posted:i liked qt :snobon: qt is literally the best cross platform gui library
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:42
|
|
|
rotor posted:i liked qt :snobon: qt is nice but it feels like 'we've found the least worst way of doing guis'. the signal/slot system works well, but only if you never *ever* change the links between them, because there be dragons. i've managed to introduce race conditions by being an idiot. the parent/child relationships on objects are also fantastic for guis, as it avoids having to do stop the world memory management. sure enough, qt is a great library and platform, and it is possibly one of the nicest i've used in terms of cross platform performance. thing is, it has to create a language atop c++ in order to work, and therin lies my complaint. qt is a language struggling to break out of the existing ones, and has to warp the fabric of the host language to fit.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:43
|
|
|
i mean if you're not gonna do something native then dont be halfassed about it and use java, go all the way and use javascript/html as per webos
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:46
|
|
|
Jerry SanDisky posted:I was thinking irc or xmpp or something like that An irc bot is the erlang rite of passage.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:52
|
|
|
Jerry SanDisky posted:thank you for this, I have some ideas kicking around so I will look into all this i'm like a broken record, but really 'a bunch of state machines sending messages to another, in a supervision tree' is really the essence of how erlang works. going against this lies pain and suffering. http://www.erlang.org/download/armstrong_thesis_2003.pdf joe armstrong's thesis is an *excellent* read about the intent behind the design of erlang, and explores the concepts in detail. this won't help you write erlang programs, but will help you understand erlang. it also cites one of my other favourite theses - microtypography extensions to latex.  quote:I was thinking irc or xmpp or something like that irc will be easier because it is a text based protocol. xmpp is possible (c.f ejabberd), but xml handling and mashing is not really performant in erlang without pushing out to native functions. (using native functions loses you the safety and isolation that erlang craves, in return for speed] quote:qt is literally the best cross platform gui library tbh i kinda have a soft spot for html/css/js as a ui system. no wonder microsoft cribbed the idea of declarative interfaces for xaml 
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:52
|
|
|
rotor posted:i mean if you're not gonna do something native then dont be halfassed about it and use java, go all the way and use javascript/html as per webos this. obviously the solution is to write things in javascript and call out to native client binaries.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:53
|
|
|
i need to learn js proper, i am very bad at it (much like my posting)
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:55
|
|
|
gucci void main posted:i need to learn js proper, i am very bad at it (much like my posting) same, i haven't used js since school
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:55
|
|
|
just learn jquery theres no point knowing the awfulness that lies beneath
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:56
|
|
|
2nd Rate Poster posted:An irc bot is the erlang rite of passage. so mr sandisky, you should write an irc proxy or bouncer in erlang. start by write something that connects to an irc room and says hello. code:tef fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Dec 27, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 01:59
|
|
|
tef posted:tbh i kinda have a soft spot for html/css/js as a ui system. no wonder microsoft cribbed the idea of declarative interfaces for xaml same except use SVG so you have decent type handling facilities and you're not tied to some horrible leftover crap designed to display documentation.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 02:10
|
|
|
tef posted:process dictionaries are a necessary evil, but you can avoid them don't listen to this man. never use the process dict. it's unconstrained process global state and leads to unreadable and unuseable code. the same goes for all those bullshit 'object oriented erlang' hacks like tuple modules, parameterized modules and even opaque data types. if you can't express it as a compound of lists, tuples, atoms, numbers and binaries you need to rethink it. most of the stdlib is bullshit too, especially the dict, gb_trees and sets modules. use proplists what makes erlang amazing is pattern matching and unification. anything that gets in the way of that should be avoided
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 02:10
|
|
|
any site i make starts with jquery-min included from a cdn with a local fallback copy. obv if i haven't used it i'll delete the reference before it goes live but i used js raw for years and i'm never going back.tef posted:i am led to believe that the c# team learned from this [...] and made bad things harder. i give it a good crack
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 02:12
|
|
|
the talent deficit posted:don't listen to this man. never use the process dict. this would be better rule of thumb quote:it's unconstrained process global state and leads to unreadable and unuseable code. the same goes for all those bullshit 'object oriented erlang' hacks like tuple modules, parameterized modules and even opaque data types. if you can't express it as a compound of lists, tuples, atoms, numbers and binaries you need to rethink it. most of the stdlib is bullshit too, especially the dict, gb_trees and sets modules. use proplists man it's like your channeling o'keefe quote:what makes erlang amazing is pattern matching and unification. anything that gets in the way of that should be avoided if only it had resolution 
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 02:26
|
|
|
rotor posted:same except use SVG so you have decent type handling facilities and you're not tied to some horrible leftover crap designed to display documentation. have you seen pdf.js ? they tried to use svg but it was slower than canvas and they'd have to reimplement text selection atop https://people.mozilla.com/%7Ecjones/PDF.js-mozilla-vision-japan-2012.pdf
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 02:30
|
|
|
tef posted:man it's like your channeling o'keefe rok is basically my idol. maybe mononqc will tell us about the book review he got from him
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 03:05
|
|
|
he would look on my posts and despair his book, the craft of prolog, is magical
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 03:58
|
|
|
for as much as tef likes to be an idealistic pessimist about the lack of perfection, svg is for the most part really bad and anything extensively using svg is an absolute mess. there's a reason canvas has came about and has seen a hell of a lot more optimization from browser vendors than svg has.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 04:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 8, 2024 20:43 |
|
|
it's really easy to implement and use?  canvas: the revenge of postscript
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2012 04:19
|
|