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TurnipFritter posted:Was that really a question anyone was asking though? I would say so after the opening. Your protagonist getting mysteriously dizzy, going to a previously unseen level and having a fight with a strange unseen enemy are all things which really needed to be addressed and are not in the Normal Ending.
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Dec 27, 2012 02:19
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I am aware that they cite those things as ~burning questions~ that were never resolved during the true ending path, but be honest with me though: Were either (or any) of you actually still thinking about those things before you activated the true ending path and they brought it up?
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Dec 27, 2012 02:23
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TurnipFritter posted:I am aware that they cite those things as ~burning questions~ that were never resolved during the true ending path, but be honest with me though: Were either (or any) of you actually still thinking about those things before you activated the true ending path and they brought it up? Yep. I actually played through P4 for the first time right after it came out in Japan and the whole "wait, why is my protagonist Izanagi/what was that poo poo at the start" elements stood out to me through the entire game, possibly because I had to translate poo poo myself and so I focused more on the content than I would have normally. Edit: That said, I only lucked onto the True Ending path because I wanted to explore everywhere as much as I could before ending the game, not because I knew what to do. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Dec 27, 2012 |
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Dec 27, 2012 02:26
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TurnipFritter posted:I am aware that they cite those things as ~burning questions~ that were never resolved during the true ending path, but be honest with me though: Were either (or any) of you actually still thinking about those things before you activated the true ending path and they brought it up? Basically what you're asking is "Did anyone pay attention to the story?" and a large amount of people have already said "Yes".
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Dec 27, 2012 02:33
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I think Persona 4's storyline would be better and less jerk-around/sit on my rear end and wait for something to happen-y if, instead of having the game be a "whodunit?" story, it had the appearance of a godlike-entity appear after acquiring the last party-member. It would tell the Investigation Team that if they want to learn the truth of the events that transpired, they wold have to go through a Tartarus-like dungeon within the TV World and meet it at the top. Once they get there by the end of the game, it would be revealed that this is one giant test of humanity's mettle, and the whole shadow-characters thing was a entrance exam of sorts to see if the characters could seek the truths of their other selves before seeking the truth of the matter at hand. I think having something like this would have prevented the repeated plot-line of "this is the TRUE mastermind." Plus, it makes the characters seem more proactive and keeps the theme of seeking the truth.
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Dec 27, 2012 02:34
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I'm not sure why Namatame's reasons were suspect, they didn't go any further into them. As for Adachi explaining the personas, they aren't connected and didn't have to be. Personas are a magic ability people have, they didn't need an explanation. I'm not really complaining they got one, but I didn't consider it a lingering mystery, they didn't do it in P3 for instance. It's just kind of a thing that exists.
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Dec 27, 2012 02:36
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Momomo posted:I'm not sure why Namatame's reasons were suspect Because he had no clue about the two who actually died and they didn't match the way he picked victims, (seeing images on the Midnight Channel)
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Dec 27, 2012 02:39
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Momomo posted:Personas are a magic ability people have, they didn't need an explanation. I'm not really complaining they got one, but I didn't consider it a lingering mystery, they didn't do it in P3 for instance. It's just kind of a thing that exists. But the point is that they DID get an explanation for every party member except the protagonist and they don't know why. It's a thing you can take for granted by looking at other games in the series but within the game itself it sets up a rule of 'accepting your Shadow is how you awaken your Persona'.
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Dec 27, 2012 02:45
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Momomo posted:I'm not sure why Namatame's reasons were suspect, they didn't go any further into them. As for Adachi explaining the personas, they aren't connected and didn't have to be. Personas are a magic ability people have, they didn't need an explanation. I'm not really complaining they got one, but I didn't consider it a lingering mystery, they didn't do it in P3 for instance. It's just kind of a thing that exists. I can't remember an exact quote, but as I recall there are plenty of times when Namatame believing that killing someone is "saving" them doesn't really make sense. The most obvious is the letter, where the MC gets a letter threatening to throw someone in the TV if he doesn't stop rescuing people - neither which make sense for someone who believes they're saving people by throwing them in. Sure, Persona's aren't explained in P3, but in P4 it's made pretty clear that Persona's are a manifestations of one's shadow and all that jazz about facing yourself. It is suspect that the MC didn't need to go through that, and even more suspect that he could put his hand in the TV from the start.
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Dec 27, 2012 02:46
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There are bits and pieces in Persona 3 about what Personas actually are, but they're few and far between. I remember one of the old documents saying something like "What if we could let people control the shadow inside themselves?" It's not much, but it gives you enough information to kind of guess the rest without too much trouble.
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Dec 27, 2012 02:52
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I was thinking you meant in the true ending about Namatame, so I got confused. Yeah, gets stuff when you choose not to kill him, just not after you deal with Adachi. As for the protagonist having those powers, that could've been explained as him just being special. Not really saying that would've been better, just that games have done it before and it's not something I'd need answered. Also, Personas in P3 do sort of get explained, they're like manifestations of their user's feelings or something. Since teenagers are known for being really emotional, the personas only come out then. No person gave this ability to them, they just kind of have it.
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Dec 27, 2012 02:52
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Momomo posted:
Isn't that kind of the point though? Sure, you could just write it off as him being special, but that's an easy and not especially satisfying answer. What I'm saying is that you need to Reach out to the Truth  e: To clarify my own position more, the execution of true ending could have used a lot of polish, but the fundamental ideas behind it were sound.
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Dec 27, 2012 02:55
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Momomo posted:Also, Personas in P3 do sort of get explained, they're like manifestations of their user's feelings or something. Since teenagers are known for being really emotional, the personas only come out then. No person gave this ability to them, they just kind of have it. Not sure why this is in spoilers, it's just general Persona lore stuff. I'm pretty sure that awakenings have to (or just can) be triggered by a traumatic event- that's why the evokers are necessary. Makes sense with the opening fight against The Magician, too, and the shrine events in Persona 2.
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Dec 27, 2012 03:00
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Remember how awful Trinity Soul was? And how it brought in some BS that only kids could have Personae because when they became an adult they lost their innocence? God that was dumb.
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Dec 27, 2012 03:06
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The GIG posted:Basically what you're asking is "Did anyone pay attention to the story?" and a large amount of people have already said "Yes". No, I'm asking if people really, honestly remembered a three minute sequence at the very beginning of a sixty hour game (and, incidentally,at the beginning of a cutscene that lasts for like an hour and half where you're introduced to a flurry of cast members, locations, and events) that's never mentioned again unless you trigger the true ending, and if they were honestly still really, really concerned enough about it during the epilogue that they would be able to ferret out the true ending. kirbysuperstar posted:Remember how awful Trinity Soul was? And how it brought in some BS that only kids could have Personae because when they became an adult they lost their innocence? It's about as dumb as "Oh only special people with special ~Wild Card~ powers get to change their Personas" 
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Dec 27, 2012 03:14
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kirbysuperstar posted:Remember how awful Trinity Soul was? And how it brought in some BS that only kids could have Personae because when they became an adult they lost their innocence?
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Dec 27, 2012 03:15
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TurnipFritter posted:No, I'm asking if people really, honestly remembered a three minute sequence at the very beginning of a sixty hour game (and, incidentally,at the beginning of a cutscene that lasts for like an hour and half where you're introduced to a flurry of cast members, locations, and events) that's never mentioned again unless you trigger the true ending, and if they were honestly still really, really concerned enough about it during the epilogue that they would be able to ferret out the true ending. And again, the answer is yes. I don't have trouble remembering basic facts about the game I played. Most games have pretty simple plots, it's not very hard to keep things in mind when they're given giant glowing neon signs that say "remember this."
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Dec 27, 2012 03:17
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TurnipFritter posted:No, I'm asking if people really, honestly remembered a three minute sequence at the very beginning of a sixty hour game (and, incidentally,at the beginning of a cutscene that lasts for like an hour and half where you're introduced to a flurry of cast members, locations, and events) that's never mentioned again unless you trigger the true ending, and if they were honestly still really, really concerned enough about it during the epilogue that they would be able to ferret out the true ending. And the answer would be yes because the set up in that scene was basically "Remember this poo poo, trust me." broadcasted on a gigantic neon sign. And really, I can't figure out what you're saying here other than "Nobody here has a memory, right?" EDIT: Beating with almost the same exact post as mine. The GIG fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Dec 27, 2012 |
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Dec 27, 2012 03:19
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TurnipFritter posted:No, I'm asking if people really, honestly remembered a three minute sequence at the very beginning of a sixty hour game (and, incidentally,at the beginning of a cutscene that lasts for like an hour and half where you're introduced to a flurry of cast members, locations, and events) that's never mentioned again unless you trigger the true ending, and if they were honestly still really, really concerned enough about it during the epilogue that they would be able to ferret out the true ending. You're obviously looking for someone to say "No," so I'll do it. No, I did not remember a very short sequence at the very beginning of the game where I felt queasy after shaking a dude's hand. But that doesn't change the fundamental issue of not explaining where the protag got his Persona powers. As has been pointed out several times, P4 is very clear about this: You get your persona after accepting your inner demons. Just because I don't remember the singular exact point at which it happens doesn't mean I've forgotten that the game has yet to address why I can use my persona without facing a shadow.
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Dec 27, 2012 03:23
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They also bring it up a few times when they're chatting at Junes- someone asks Yu what his shadow was like, and everyone is surprised that he didn't see one. Also, yeah, chiming in as someone who remembered the foggy dream in the beginning- when I got to the true final dungeon it was an instant "Ah-ha! This looks just like the thing in the intro!" moment. The way that was presented was so out of place for everything else that happened in the beginning that it was pretty easy to remember it.
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Dec 27, 2012 03:26
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Holy hell, that was like the third time I've said I don't care for Persona 4's story and I've always explained, but the one time I don't suddenly a two-page debate occurs. Maybe it was because I said I found DDS' story unique after I said it this time, I dunno, this all seems just a bit silly. I gotta say though, after Golden the story just becomes a bit more annoying for me.
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Dec 27, 2012 03:32
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Artix74 posted:As has been pointed out several times, P4 is very clear about this: You get your persona after accepting your inner demons. Just because I don't remember the singular exact point at which it happens doesn't mean I've forgotten that the game has yet to address why I can use my persona without facing a shadow. P4 is very clear about that, and it's also very clear that it takes place in the same world as P3, where that wasn't the case. I had assumed that he obtained his Persona because he did not want to die at the very beginning of the game ("My Persona awakened because I did not want to die" is sort of a running theme throughout the series, you see).
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Dec 27, 2012 03:37
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Sex_Ferguson posted:Holy hell, that was like the third time I've said I don't care for Persona 4's story and I've always explained, but the one time I don't suddenly a two-page debate occurs. Maybe it was because I said I found DDS' story unique after I said it this time, I dunno, this all seems just a bit silly. Basically the MegaTen thread is a more angry version of the FF thread because not only are you dealing slapfights between different installment, you're dealing with slapfights from different series and their installments. TurnipFritter posted:P4 is very clear about that, and it's also very clear that it takes place in the same world as P3, where that wasn't the case. I had assumed that he obtained his Persona because he did not want to die at the very beginning of the game ("My Persona awakened because I did not want to die" is sort of a running theme throughout the series, you see). I'm pretty sure how P4 does things in it's own game matters more than what P3 did, not to mention, like everyone else said, the game makes it stupidly clear that something is up with you having a persona before anyone else. The GIG fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Dec 27, 2012 |
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Dec 27, 2012 03:43
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The GIG posted:I'm pretty sure how P4 does things in it's own game matters more than what P3 did, not to mention, like everyone else said, the game makes it stupidly clear that something is up with you having a persona before anyone else. Not to mention your ability to enter the TV. Yeah, everyone else gets the same power after their Personas awaken, but you have the power before yours awakens. If that doesn't strike you as an incongruity that requires an explanation beyond the simple cop-out of, "You're just special, leave it at that," I don't know what to tell you.
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Dec 27, 2012 03:54
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The only good character in DDS was Cielo's VA. And the Pacing in their plots were so loving terrible the plots didn't even exist for 90% of the game. I just got to 2 and seriously just in the beginning the pacing is so loving wacky and you're missing half the loving plot because they don't cutaway to things that would be useful to see. It goes 'No. you guys go do this for this and then we'll give you your friend with the terrible accent' to 'That one line you said really got to me, the allegedly alcoholic cynical man who's emotionally stunted, so now I'm a demon too and I brought Cielo and also all my little freedom fighters have painted their sleeves orange so their your crew now.' in the course of one area that's just the transition between the town and the dungeon with no real insight onto what changed Roland's mind. I think having that twist happen at the end of the first game and the second game taking place entirely in the real world was a mistake. The first game's surreal conflict-focused setting, the story, and the casual malice all the characters acted with kept things disjointed in an interesting way because you didn't know which characters were trustworthy nor did you know the whole deal with the karma terminal and such. It had a surprisingly oppressive atmosphere about it because of that at a time when stuff like Atelier Iris and Phantom Brave were coming out here so it really stood out to me. The twist wasn't even needed, I wouldn't have minded both games taking place entirely in the first game's setting even after the characters find out.
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Dec 27, 2012 04:01
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ImpAtom posted:And again, the answer is yes. I don't have trouble remembering basic facts about the game I played. Most games have pretty simple plots, it's not very hard to keep things in mind when they're given giant glowing neon signs that say "remember this." In other words, we were basically reminding ourselves of the introduction by poking fun at the idea of the Persona 4 writers forgetting about their own intro throughout most of the game (at least up until the late game anyway). It's always funny to make fun of JRPG writers. Well ... game writers in general. Let's face it, nearly every RPG story is simple and lovely in the end when you start deconstructing it.
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Dec 27, 2012 04:14
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I thought it was pretty clear that Izanami awakened the personas of the three "special" ones. She is a Goddess, after all.
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Dec 27, 2012 04:37
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Does Catherine discussion fit into this thread too? I got it during the PSN sale and I love it so far. I'm on the 4th night and I've been playing completely blind, so I have no idea what to expect. I just have a few questions- are there more than two endings (I'm assuming there are at least two), and is it more complex to get them than good / bad based on your morality meter thing?
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Dec 27, 2012 05:39
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DeathBySpoon posted:Does Catherine discussion fit into this thread too? I got it during the PSN sale and I love it so far. I'm on the 4th night and I've been playing completely blind, so I have no idea what to expect. I just have a few questions- are there more than two endings (I'm assuming there are at least two), and is it more complex to get them than good / bad based on your morality meter thing? Yes. There's something like 8 endings, depending on your morality meter + choices in a late part of the game.
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Dec 27, 2012 05:41
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^^^^ Catherine only had one ending if you cared about the rest of the cast  Seriously though, the True Katherine ending is the one with the best/most development and catharsis for the rest of the crew and since the cast is what really made that game fantastic it's the only one worth getting in my book. TurnipFritter posted:Was that really a question anyone was asking though? When the game opened with someone cause you to have a fever dream about chasing some strange being through a world of fog and getting your persona there, yeah it's a question I was asking. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Dec 27, 2012 |
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Dec 27, 2012 06:09
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The GIG posted:Basically the MegaTen thread is a more angry version of the FF thread because not only are you dealing slapfights between different installment, you're dealing with slapfights from different series and their installments. Neither this thread nor the Final Fantasy thread are angry though? ZenMasterBullshit posted:When the game opened with someone cause you to have a fever dream about chasing some strange being through a world of fog and getting your persona there, yeah it's a question I was asking. Honestly I assumed that it was the serial killer taunting you (and then later Boring As poo poo Eyeball Dude) and that the area had such a dull look to it that it was meant to be a one-off for the dream sequence. 
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Dec 27, 2012 06:18
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DeathBySpoon posted:Does Catherine discussion fit into this thread too? I got it during the PSN sale and I love it so far. I'm on the 4th night and I've been playing completely blind, so I have no idea what to expect. I just have a few questions- are there more than two endings (I'm assuming there are at least two), and is it more complex to get them than good / bad based on your morality meter thing? Yahtzee mentioned this in his review and I must stress it as well--if you are going for any ending, make sure you stay consistent and stick to your guns. The game has 8 endings but three of them are really lame endings that are a result of you being wishy-washy with your answers. Be a true Lover or a Cheater--but don't try to be both! As for the Persona poo poo, Namatame...What the gently caress are you talking about "his motivations aren't explained"? It's very clear why he did what he did, the game explains it. The Announcer dies the day after he sees her on the TV. Saki shows up, dies as well. Namatame puts two and two together and, like the MC, also discovered he can enter TVs. He's a bit shook up, no one believes him, and Adachi manipulates him via suggestion into doing the kidnappings. It's not rocket science people!
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Dec 27, 2012 06:24
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RentCavalier posted:As for the Persona poo poo, Namatame...What the gently caress are you talking about "his motivations aren't explained"? It's very clear why he did what he did, the game explains it. The Announcer dies the day after he sees her on the TV. Saki shows up, dies as well. Namatame puts two and two together and, like the MC, also discovered he can enter TVs. He's a bit shook up, no one believes him, and Adachi manipulates him via suggestion into doing the kidnappings. It's not rocket science people! They're saying you can tell that he isn't the culprit because his motivations aren't explained if you toss him in the TV, therefore you should be able to deduce there's more to the story and that it isn't the real ending.
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Dec 27, 2012 06:39
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RentCavalier posted:Yahtzee mentioned this in his review and I must stress it as well--if you are going for any ending, make sure you stay consistent and stick to your guns. The game has 8 endings but three of them are really lame endings that are a result of you being wishy-washy with your answers. Be a true Lover or a Cheater--but don't try to be both! Don't listen to this guy. Neutral ending's the best ending. You get to go to SPACE!
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Dec 27, 2012 06:48
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Wow, wasn't expecting 8- without really spoiling anything, is it easy to go back, change some choices, and see different endings, or is that 8 different playthroughs?
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Dec 27, 2012 06:49
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It's not really eight different endings, per se; there are three unique endings and two or three variations based on your choices near the end. It's easy enough to see the variations from an old save file, but the overall ending is based on your responses throughout the game, which will likely only be significantly different on a fresh file. If you don't want to go through the end two more times, all the endings are available on Youtube.
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Dec 27, 2012 06:59
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DeathBySpoon posted:Wow, wasn't expecting 8- without really spoiling anything, is it easy to go back, change some choices, and see different endings, or is that 8 different playthroughs? I'm not sure how the game's save system works, but from what I remember of the LP a lot of the endings depend on how you answer the final three questions of the game, so depending on where you saved you can replay the final sections and change your answers to those. Probably you could see them all with three playthroughs.
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Dec 27, 2012 07:00
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Also, if you get a Gold rank on a puzzle segment, you can choose to skip that part in future playthroughs, which makes replays a bit faster.
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Dec 27, 2012 07:39
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I sure do hope we get that shiny new Megami Tensei 3DS game in the states, seeing as how I just bought one of those things... Also Persona 4's story was at least written fairly in that there were always hints to what was going on.
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Dec 27, 2012 07:55
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When people say Persona 4 had a good "story" they mean it has some of the best characterization, voice acting, dialogue, and the sense that the party is a group of highschool friends in any RPG. The actual main story beats can be a bit clumsy sometimes, but if you're complaining that the cast spends too much time "having fun" then you kind of missed the point! The actual Point A > Point B story is not the greatest but the rest makes up for it. Even when it's cheesy it's endearing instead of making me want to kill myself
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Dec 27, 2012 08:00
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