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Install Gentoo posted:I mean seriously like right now I'm picturing that marijuana is fully legalized and RJ Reynolds comes to market. Packs of pre-made weed cigs. Standardized chunks of processed weed to load into smoking implement or vaporizer in reliable "dosages" and sizes. Possibly even mass produced edibles. The way medical marijuana is implemented in Co suggests that RJR will have a hard time with the market. Shops are licensed to individuals and each individual can only have one shop as far as I know. I'm not as good at the growing laws but I think that they work on a similar principal, one physical location with a set number of plants contingent on the licenses to supply you have from dispensaries. I don't think that the new law changes that and Hick's task force is very likely to keep the zoning and supply side as it stands and tweek the sellers. I don't see a big door open for a big company to corner the cheap weed market. I grew up in Virginia in the 80's and smoked very little. What I did smoke was overwhelmingly harsh, nasty and made me paranoid as hell. Once in a RARE while something else would move through the market and it was a HUGELY different experience, not painful, very mellow and no paranoia at all for me. What is currently available at dispensaries in Colorado is a lot more like the later than the former. I really look forward to the implementation of full legalization because I want to experiment with the stuff Morphix described - treat pot like a fine, local brewery and tailor your experience for what you actually want!
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Dec 27, 2012 03:23
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ChlamydiaJones posted:The way medical marijuana is implemented in Co suggests that RJR will have a hard time with the market. Shops are licensed to individuals and each individual can only have one shop as far as I know. I'm not as good at the growing laws but I think that they work on a similar principal, one physical location with a set number of plants contingent on the licenses to supply you have from dispensaries. I don't think that the new law changes that and Hick's task force is very likely to keep the zoning and supply side as it stands and tweek the sellers. I don't see a big door open for a big company to corner the cheap weed market. That's why I'm saying fully legalized. As in, legal federally and in all the states. There are some heavy barriers to doing that when it's not legal federally and it has to be "medical".
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Dec 27, 2012 03:40
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It seems like the wine industry might be a better parallel for what the hypothetical legal weed market would look like. A few big players selling rot gut, and tons of niche brands, with a vibrant communities both among the growers but also the consumers.
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Dec 27, 2012 04:12
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Is there a way the federal government, at this point, could legally make marijuana a state-level only issue? If so, what specific actions would have to be taken?
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Dec 27, 2012 06:34
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cheerfullydrab posted:Is there a way the federal government, at this point, could legally make marijuana a state-level only issue? If so, what specific actions would have to be taken? If they remove marijuana from being a scheduled restricted rug, states would be free to continue to illegalize it or follow the feds and legalize it.
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Dec 27, 2012 06:36
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Install Gentoo posted:If they remove marijuana from being a scheduled restricted rug, states would be free to continue to illegalize it or follow the feds and legalize it. And this could be done literally with nothing more than executive order (but won't).
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Dec 27, 2012 06:39
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Just as well not to do it now, a good experiment is underway. It is silly to just assume that legalization will necessarily work out great, there may yet be issues that haven't been foreseen. Overall a good model though, for sufficiently contentious issues just find one or a few states that are willing guinea pigs and test-run a new legal framework there. Limits the impact, and the impact is felt mostly by the people who favored the change.
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Dec 27, 2012 16:20
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Paul MaudDib posted:And this could be done literally with nothing more than executive order (but won't). Because the headline "Black man legalizes Weed" practically writes campaign ads by itself.
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Dec 27, 2012 16:24
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computer parts posted:Because the headline "Black man legalizes Weed" practically writes campaign ads by itself. Then he may as well do it right away, long before any elections take place, so everyone has time to forget about it. That's how it works when Republicans force through lovely laws that could be used to electorally gut them.
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Dec 27, 2012 17:35
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ChlamydiaJones posted:The way medical marijuana is implemented in Co suggests that RJR will have a hard time with the market. Shops are licensed to individuals and each individual can only have one shop as far as I know. We celebrate this and I'd be surprised if we didn't try to replicate it with the licensing of MJ outlets.
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Dec 27, 2012 17:45
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KlavoHunter posted:Then he may as well do it right away, long before any elections take place, so everyone has time to forget about it. That's how it works when Republicans force through lovely laws that could be used to electorally gut them. Republicans did do that last cycle, and it hosed them over (Women's rights).
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Dec 27, 2012 17:52
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Ulf posted:That's an interesting parallel with the licensing of liquor stores in CO, in that you're only allowed to have one. That means there's only one Costco in Colorado that sells booze, only one King Soopers (Krogers), and so on. The effect is that the vast majority of liquor stores are quirky personal concerns stocked with a variety of local and niche product. New Jersey does this, but the limit is two stores unless you're a dedicated liquor store. So in general, gas stations and supermarkets and other general retailers will not have anything more than cooking wine; and there ends up being a lot of independent stores and small time chains.
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Dec 27, 2012 18:27
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computer parts posted:Because the headline "Black man legalizes Weed" practically writes campaign ads by itself. "Black man returns civil right to Americans, republicans furious."
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Dec 27, 2012 18:47
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computer parts posted:Republicans did do that last cycle, and it hosed them over (Women's rights). Are you sure it wasn't because Republicans couldn't keep their mouths shut about rape during the electoral campaign?
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Dec 27, 2012 19:27
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KlavoHunter posted:Are you sure it wasn't because Republicans couldn't keep their mouths shut about rape during the electoral campaign? Warchicken posted:"Black man returns civil right to Americans, republicans furious." For many conservatives (and even non-conservatives on occasion), drugs are as much a moral issue as rape.
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Dec 27, 2012 19:32
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computer parts posted:For many conservatives (and even non-conservatives on occasion), drugs are as much a moral issue as rape. There is absolutely no way this is an opinion held by anything approaching a majority of Americans.
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Dec 27, 2012 19:37
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computer parts posted:For many conservatives (and even non-conservatives on occasion), drugs are as much a moral issue as rape. Agreed. If Obama went full legalization, the Republicans would grab a bunch of old people who were on the fence. And no one would suddenly vote Democratic if weed was legalized.
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Dec 27, 2012 19:38
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You could even make a more moderate states-rights oriented order if you wanted to, just order that it be scheduled federally in all states where a legalization law hasn't been passed or something like that. Then you could play the whole "laboratories of democracy" card against conservatives, and put them in the position of defending the Federal government running roughshod over the voters of these states. That would take a lot of the wind out of conservative sails. There isn't a lot of hard support left for marijuana prohibition anymore, and as long as you can be seen as being reactive to voters rather than forcing a joint into granny's hand, I think you could do it with no more blowback than anything else a black Democratic President wants to do. This is something that can't be stopped by the Congressional gridlock (actually, gridlock helps prevent the order being overridden) and would help resolve the untenable situation of those states basically coasting on the good graces of the DEA. It would be really nice to get this in the bag while we still have a Democratic president and not a President Romney who is focused on banning birth control. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Dec 27, 2012 |
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Dec 27, 2012 19:41
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Warchicken posted:There is absolutely no way this is an opinion held by anything approaching a majority of Americans. A majority? no. A majority in addition to the people who weren't going to vote for Obama anyway? Very likely.
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Dec 27, 2012 22:12
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Paul MaudDib posted:Then you could play the whole "laboratories of democracy" card against conservatives, and put them in the position of defending the Federal government running roughshod over the voters of these states. That would take a lot of the wind out of conservative sails. I think you may have politics, especially conservative politics, backwards. There is not a coherent stated ideology (states' rights) that logically leads to particular policy goals (devolution of drug laws), rather policy goals (throw druggies into prison forever) stemming from an ideology that very few are willing to stand behind (the poor and otherwise legally disenfranchised people should have the boot of the law on their necks) incoherently shoehorned into something resembling a stated ideology (states' rights, except when the states make the wrong choices, then the federal government should supersede).
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Dec 27, 2012 22:22
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computer parts posted:A majority? no. A majority in addition to the people who weren't going to vote for Obama anyway? Very likely. This is preposterous, it's being legalized across the country in various ways with even prominent conservatives in conservative states like Indiana trying to decriminalize it. What decade are you living in? computer parts posted:Because the headline "Black man legalizes Weed" practically writes campaign ads by itself. The paranoia of the feds and conservatives in this thread is absurd. Drugs just aren't a hot button topic anymore, times have changed. Marijuana is going to be legal and gays will marry; I think liberals have forgotten how to celebrate a victory it's been so long. E: It couldn't even be used as a wedge issue like gay marriage was used to propel bush to victory in 04. Too many libertarians nowadays and it just doesn't motivate the religious right like other social issues. 312 fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Dec 28, 2012 |
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Dec 28, 2012 00:25
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312 posted:This is preposterous, it's being legalized across the country in various ways with even prominent conservatives in conservative states like Indiana trying to decriminalize it. What decade are you living in? If by "various ways" you mean "medicinally", then guess what, there's a reason why it was specifically legalized medicinally (there's no support for outright legalization).
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Dec 28, 2012 01:30
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312 posted:The paranoia of the feds and conservatives in this thread is absurd. Drugs just aren't a hot button topic anymore, times have changed. Marijuana is going to be legal and gays will marry; I think liberals have forgotten how to celebrate a victory it's been so long. The staggering difference between the huge variety of substances between the vast array of substances that fall under the banner of "drugs" compared to the relatively narrow substance that is marijuana makes your post completely irrelevant. Sure the bible belt may take time to come around to marijuana use, but even here in Washington, land of gay weed, the vast majority of people do not want to see Krokodil available for sale at the grocery store.
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Dec 28, 2012 01:54
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computer parts posted:If by "various ways" you mean "medicinally", then guess what, there's a reason why it was specifically legalized medicinally (there's no support for outright legalization). It's been legalized in Washington and Colorado. Not for medical use, full legalization.
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Dec 28, 2012 02:52
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:It's been legalized in Washington and Colorado. Not for medical use, full legalization. "The West" is not "across the country". When Ohio legalizes it let me know.
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Dec 28, 2012 02:54
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Red_Mage posted:Sure the bible belt may take time to come around to marijuana use, but even here in Washington, land of gay weed, the vast majority of people do not want to see Krokodil available for sale at the grocery store. That's kind of a moot point because nobody would even consider using krokodil/desomorphine if heroin were legal, similar to how nobody drinks methanol since vodka is legal. 
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Dec 28, 2012 02:58
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computer parts posted:"The West" is not "across the country". When Ohio legalizes it let me know. You said there was "no support" for outright legalization, which is objectively wrong. Polls show support at around 50% and growing quickly. All indications are that Colorado and Washington are not outliers. They look much more like the first of many. http://www.pollingreport.com/drugs.htm
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Dec 28, 2012 03:22
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TheCardhouse posted:You said there was "no support" for outright legalization, which is objectively wrong. Polls show support at around 50% and growing quickly. All indications are that Colorado and Washington are not outliers. They look much more like the first of many. Yes, no support to the extent that Obama descheduling Marijuana wouldn't result in a massive Republican victory. e: Remember those studies where people like universal health care if it's not called as such? That's likely what a lot of weed support is.
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Dec 28, 2012 03:30
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TheCardhouse posted:You said there was "no support" for outright legalization, which is objectively wrong. Polls show support at around 50% and growing quickly. All indications are that Colorado and Washington are not outliers. They look much more like the first of many. Obama de-scheduling pot will rile up the old, the pharma industry, and the prison industry. It will cause the Republicans(who are currently meh) to be hardcore against it, because that's how the current crop of that party works. Plus, what was said above with the whole 'black man legalizes pot'. He doesn't want that image. He won't do it. Congress certainly won't do it. The DEA head is old school Reaganesque about all drugs(they are all bad). I think that everything will stay as the status quo. The states can 'legalize', but the second they attempt to sell/license pot they will get sued or threatened.
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Dec 28, 2012 03:31
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computer parts posted:Yes, no support to the extent that Obama descheduling Marijuana wouldn't result in a massive Republican victory. Well that is different than what you originally said, and I would also disagree with the idea that it is fairly empty support. Colorado and Washington just proved it is not. However since it is hard to say exactly how something drastic like descheduling it would play out, I would agree with the idea that it is more pragmatic for Obama to not do anything and let the public opinion continue to keep growing without adding any unnecessary variables. At the pace it is going, and with Colorado and Washington showing that legalizing weed doesn't collapse society, it is believable that a Democratic 2016 presidential candidate might be able support it without controversy.
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Dec 28, 2012 04:16
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TheCardhouse posted:Well that is different than what you originally said, and I would also disagree with the idea that it is fairly empty support. Colorado and Washington just proved it is not. The pattern of how this is going is giving me flashbacks to when we (MA) legalized gay marriage, and then after the world didn't end a slow trickle of states started following. I think its easier to change people's minds on pot then it is "the gays", seeing how fast national public opinion has changed (Gay marriage is just now hitting majority when it comes to national approval, weed legalization already has it). Also like another poster already said, much of the currently rabid Republican base has libertarian leanings which support or are ambivalent to the legalization of pot. I can't picture the world where pushing pot legalization is too scary because of the wrath of the religious right but pushing gay marriage isn't.
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Dec 28, 2012 05:54
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TheCardhouse posted:At the pace it is going, and with Colorado and Washington showing that legalizing weed doesn't collapse society Hey give it time. We haven't even had a month with it yet.
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Dec 28, 2012 06:47
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Red_Mage posted:Hey give it time. We haven't even had a month with it yet. I'm sure the good ol' Conservative Slippery Slope will kick in any time now...
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Dec 28, 2012 06:49
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Red_Mage posted:Hey give it time. We haven't even had a month with it yet. I find it rather strange that some people believe the consumption a leafy green vegetable is all it takes to bring society to its knees.
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Dec 28, 2012 07:33
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It's almost hard to believe that in the year of our lord two thousand and twelve there are still mother fuckers who believe that tokin' up will lead to reefer madness.
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Dec 28, 2012 08:24
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Living in Colorado, I'm actually kind of surprised at just how little uproar there is over this. Amendment 64 still had 45% "no" votes so I'd think there'd be at least some people that would be pissed about it, but no...everyone I've talked to has just kind of taken it in stride, even those who voted against it. It gives me a small, flickering ray of hope 
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Dec 28, 2012 09:29
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The Maroon Hawk posted:Living in Colorado, I'm actually kind of surprised at just how little uproar there is over this. Amendment 64 still had 45% "no" votes so I'd think there'd be at least some people that would be pissed about it, but no...everyone I've talked to has just kind of taken it in stride, even those who voted against it. The nice thing about it being legalized in Washington and Colorado is that the culture was such it was drat-near legalized already and isn't a huge shift to begin with. I imagine that half or more of that 45% disagreed, but probably not strongly enough to think it would really change much.
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Dec 28, 2012 09:37
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Delta-Wye posted:The nice thing about it being legalized in Washington and Colorado is that the culture was such it was drat-near legalized already and isn't a huge shift to begin with. I imagine that half or more of that 45% disagreed, but probably not strongly enough to think it would really change much. Yeah, I think the opposition isn't nearly as bitter as the anti-gay marriage crowd. They voted on it because Jesus said chronic's bad (it's in there somewhere, right next to "God helps those who help themselves"), and they don't want to be on the hook at the gates of Heaven. St. Peter will be like "chronic eh? Get into hell." But if they voted no, it's OK.
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Dec 28, 2012 10:18
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I like to think there's a large portion of retired Conservative Boomers who would love nothing more than to relive their simpler glory days of the sixties and smoke a joint now and again. A small toke would allow them to relax about the recent elections and the fiscal cliff and Marijuana is also cheaper than the average arthritis medication. The ad campaign would be glorious.
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Dec 28, 2012 15:26
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Lt. Tanaka posted:I like to think there's a large portion of retired Conservative Boomers who would love nothing more than to relive their simpler glory days of the sixties and smoke a joint now and again. A small toke would allow them to relax about the recent elections and the fiscal cliff and Marijuana is also cheaper than the average arthritis medication. This is my stepdad. Super conservative, tea party republican who used to surf and smoke weed and would like nothing more than to be able to revisit the good old days. When I was home for thanksgiving, I watched him take a hit off my sister in law's pipe. Made me hopeful that he was starting to soften on the right wing fanaticism. Later on he tried to get me and my girlfriend to watch Atlas Shrugged. Eh.
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Dec 28, 2012 18:55
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