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I'd probably approach this from a crate games perspective where you gradually desensitize Moses to physical contact and noises while giving him a task to focus on in the mean time. Giving him a visible barrier that's not physically restraining him will probably help. As in, an open crate or a dog bed. Make holding his stay more reinforcing than him getting up and trying to separate you. If he gets up, quickly return him to his bed. The general rule of thumb is "build the value, test the value". So build up the staying on his bed first, then make it a bit more tricky by adding a distraction like a hug or a loud voice. Just babystep it and only increase the base level of difficulty if he's 100% okay with the previous one.
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Dec 26, 2012 16:48
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a life less posted:I'd probably approach this from a crate games perspective where you gradually desensitize Moses to physical contact and noises while giving him a task to focus on in the mean time. That's basically what I did for Major who also had problems with people physically interacting and it worked well. His VERY IMPORTANT JOB was to stay on his mat when I went from talking to hand shaking to hugging very gradually over a couple weeks. I would say hi/shake hands/whatever and if he stayed Major got cookies and pats and told what an amazing dog he was by both people and that's really all it took for him. Now he just sit-stays and waits for his turn for attention.
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Dec 26, 2012 17:02
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Instant Jellyfish posted:That's basically what I did for Major who also had problems with people physically interacting and it worked well. His VERY IMPORTANT JOB was to stay on his mat when I went from talking to hand shaking to hugging very gradually over a couple weeks. I would say hi/shake hands/whatever and if he stayed Major got cookies and pats and told what an amazing dog he was by both people and that's really all it took for him. Now he just sit-stays and waits for his turn for attention. Same for Psyche. She freaks out at physical contact and startling noises (though I yell at my computer while I'm working so much that she's totally over that  ) so I just systematically desensitize them by putting her in a sit-stay or down-stay and doing it over and over until the treats change her mind about it being a bad thing. Typically I don't involve another object like a mat because she's very literal and I won't always have one handy. Another thing I've done is, instead of giving her a job to do, I change her response by keeping doing whatever until she gives me a calming signal instead of whatever inappropriate behavior she's doing. Then I stop and that teaches her that she can get me to stop by giving a nice signal rather than jumping and barking. It also makes her feel better about Scary Thing because she's not escalating her anxiety with her own actions. This works better for deliberate actions that involve her though, like cutting her nails or brushing or whatever. I still do it for hugs and whatever if I don't have treats handy though (best is when I fake punch my husband and she gets upset, I get to keep punching him until she gives me a nice signal  ).
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Dec 26, 2012 18:49
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Question about hand cues: So I had to change my 'be people' cue(I totally stole that from A Life Less and everyone loves seeing him do it) because I was using two hands in an upward gesture, and he kept getting it confused with the 'sit cue, which is one hand up. Do you guys do mostly vocal or physical cues? I have one for sit, stay, to me, leave it. But I'm kinda coming up blank with ones for others, like be people. Wondering what you guys use? Also: I wanna teach him to do a little spin in a circle, I've been taking a treat and making him spin by following it, is this the way to do it?
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Dec 28, 2012 00:14
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Bash Ironfist posted:Question about hand cues: So I had to change my 'be people' cue(I totally stole that from A Life Less and everyone loves seeing him do it) because I was using two hands in an upward gesture, and he kept getting it confused with the 'sit cue, which is one hand up. Do you guys do mostly vocal or physical cues? I have one for sit, stay, to me, leave it. But I'm kinda coming up blank with ones for others, like be people. Wondering what you guys use? I'm not like a ~training expert~ or anything but I tend to use both physical and verbal cues, tending towards using gestures more than verbal cues. Vecna usually picks up a hand gesture within a couple repetitions but takes much longer to learn the verbal cue. I also dig that if I run into a problem with the verbal cue I can teach a new one easily using the hand gesture. I ran into this recently because my "walk with me" command ("komm mit") and my recall ("komm") start with the same word and thus are confusing when we're moving fast and because my "down" command ("stellung") was way too long and started with the same sound as "stand" ("ste"). Using hand gestures a lot has made it really easy to switch "walk with me" to "mit mir" and "down" to "platz". Newbie dog handler problems  I teach almost all of his tricks via hand targeting so the hand gesture ends up being a stylized version of whatever hand motion I used to teach the trick. For example "spin" and "twirl" are just a tiny circle in the direction I want him to go because when I was teaching it I had him follow my hand in a circle. Triangulum fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Dec 28, 2012 |
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Dec 28, 2012 00:36
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How do you reward calmness for a dog that gets OMG SUPER EXCITED PANT PANT PANT at the thought that food might be somewhere nearby? I'm taking care of a 10 year old creaky lady Lab until this weekend, she's having trouble with her hips so getting up and down is tough on her. I'm trying to reward her for being calm, ignoring the cat, and staying put on her bed instead of obsessively following me and my boyfriend around. Tonight I tried out teaching her to put her head down on cue. Problem is every time I clicked and treated for putting her head down, she popped back up at attention because !!FOOD!! Same problem for rewarding for settling down and being calm, it just makes her excited all over again. Is extending the length of time she's required to have her head down or be calm the best answer, or is there another way? Lower value treats, maybe?
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Dec 28, 2012 03:25
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kikopup says. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wesm2OpE_2c
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Dec 28, 2012 03:40
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Fat Dio posted:How do you reward calmness for a dog that gets OMG SUPER EXCITED PANT PANT PANT at the thought that food might be somewhere nearby? The kikopup video is good. It's basically the same as mat work taught in Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed. The problem is that you aren't going to get the results you'd like by the time you are finished with the dog, however it would be a great thing for the owner to practice. In the short term, lower value treats is your best bet, if you can find something. The other thing to do is make sure that when you reward with treats, reward where her face is when she's putting her head down. If she lifts her head, use the treats to lure back to where she was. If she stands up, stop and make a scene of putting the treats back in your bait bag (or whatever). Also, this isn't something you want to use a clicker for. Clickers are used in operant conditioning, which means the dog is cued to perform a behavior. If you want it to be an environmental change for the dog (which this is), leave the clicker out and just shower treats from the sky.
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Dec 28, 2012 04:39
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a life less posted:I'd probably approach this from a crate games perspective where you gradually desensitize Moses to physical contact and noises while giving him a task to focus on in the mean time. Yeah, this seems a lot more up his alley than "okay I get treats when people yell and laugh." Moses wants activities and a thing to do and treats will distract him yeah, but just flinging treats at a problem usually stops being effective after a while with him. It's basically the same concept as what I do when desensitizing him to the presence of a dog he has to deal with, and I didn't think of approaching it in that way. I'll try putting him in a stay on his bed and go from there.
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Dec 28, 2012 04:44
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Yeah I know I'm not going to get results, I just wanted to practice for myself and see if she can learn anything worthwhile. Thanks for the advice  MrFurious posted:just shower treats from the sky. She would have a heart attack and die happy.
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Dec 28, 2012 14:02
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Bash Ironfist posted:Question about hand cues: So I had to change my 'be people' cue(I totally stole that from A Life Less and everyone loves seeing him do it) because I was using two hands in an upward gesture, and he kept getting it confused with the 'sit cue, which is one hand up. Do you guys do mostly vocal or physical cues? I have one for sit, stay, to me, leave it. But I'm kinda coming up blank with ones for others, like be people. Wondering what you guys use? I use a mixture of both. Like Triangulum, I ran into trouble with my "stay" and my "stand" cue. I told myself that I'd cue stand on verbal and stay with a gesture, but even now I forget and it can mess Cohen up a bit. My hand signals for sit and come were a bit too similar too (arm diagonal on my chest for the first, and an arm held horizontal away from my body brought into my chest) so I changed the signal for sit to two fingers extended, hand facing down, and I then roll my wrist so my hand is facing upwards. A dog should understand both the verbal and the physical signal in a perfect world. that way you can do what I've had to do a few times and migrate the cues to something new when you run into a conflict. (In a perfect world, you'd never run into a conflict either, but...) Dogs understand physical cues much more easily and faster than verbal ones since they're experts at reading body language. It's us who are the verbal animals. So, according to your example, Cohen understands "sit" "stay" "come" or "here" "leave it" "be people" and she understands the signals which are two fingers out and roll my wrist, a hand waved quickly palm facing her, arm horizontal then brought to my chest, [I have no physical cue for leave it since if I gotta use it she's probably not looking at me, but if she turns to me I'll cue a come], two arms raised in the air above my head, respectively. Hand signals for cues normally just end up being artifacts of the process you used to teach it, so they're often a natural and somewhat individual thing. For spin, I would just make it super simple and put a cookie in front of Feldman's face and spin him around like that. Then fade the lure. Then fade the hand signal into something less obvious. My cues for Cohen are "spin" and "left" (she used to have a twirl, but she lost it when I taught her a scoot) and my hand signals are tiny little circles with my finger in the direction I want her to go. Superconsndar posted:Yeah, this seems a lot more up his alley than "okay I get treats when people yell and laugh." Moses wants activities and a thing to do and treats will distract him yeah, but just flinging treats at a problem usually stops being effective after a while with him. It's basically the same concept as what I do when desensitizing him to the presence of a dog he has to deal with, and I didn't think of approaching it in that way. I'll try putting him in a stay on his bed and go from there. Well, food is still involved (I didn't make it super clear in my post, I don't think) but the structured nature of the exercise I think lends itself well to people in general, and hyperintelligent neurotic messes like Moses in particular.
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Dec 28, 2012 14:30
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a life less posted:
Oh definitely, I just meant "food accompanying a job/task" as opposed to just "here is some food." 
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Dec 28, 2012 15:00
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I always forget about things like that because if Lola was told 'stay over there while I do something that makes you anxious' she would have a meltdown. She's much better if I engage her directly and give her a thing to do like fetch or just eat all the things.
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Dec 28, 2012 15:05
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I'm mostly verbal as in competitions you can't really use hand signals outside of some specific exercises. If I get around to it I may, in every day life, open my arms to the side and lean backwards a bit during recall. I use my palm as a secondary cue for stays, too. For the distance control in obedience I use my right hand. Hand up, palm toward the dog for sit, hand & palm down with a slight twist to the right for down and hand horizontal (from the elbow) with palm up for stand. I used to do stand and down with both hands, but as I happened to overhear judges discussing whether you can use both hands or not I went with using my right hand. As far as verbal cues go I use SIVU (side) for heeling, LIKI (close) for formal recall, YLÖS (up) for stand in distance control and ODOTA (wait) for stand from motion and a hand signal/ODOTA for stopping mid-recall. Seuraa (heel), sivu (side), istu (sit), seiso (stand), stop which are often used for heel, sit and standing in the above exercises are probably the ones most often confused (the S comes through pretty strongly in all of them). My recall cue of LIKI is not one of the most common ones (TÄNNE (here) or TULE (come)) and this is because in SchH obedience I'm more comfortable with my dogs not having to distinguish my voice from that of the other handlers. (As one dog is working on the exercises the other is in a down stay on the sidelines and sometimes a dog reacts to the recall cue from the wrong handler.)
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Dec 28, 2012 15:24
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Fraction posted:I always forget about things like that because if Lola was told 'stay over there while I do something that makes you anxious' she would have a meltdown. She's much better if I engage her directly and give her a thing to do like fetch or just eat all the things. Moses is the opposite, If I give him something to do that actively distracts him from what I'm doing, he gets REALLY frustrated that he's being forced to do something that takes him attention from what I'm doing and he ends up melting down after grudgingly halfway doing what I'm asking him to do. If I give him something subtle to do like "stay" and/or "hold this thing" it gives him a positive behavior to focus on while ALSO letting him still keep tabs on the situation by watching. "stay" is usually not enough, but if I combine it with "also please could you hold on to this thing for me, it is very important and I couldn't POSSIBLY manage without your help!!!" I am usually able to convince him that holding that thing is crucial to the continuation of the earth's existence and he is in complete control of the situation because he is holding a thing, and that seems to calm him down. "Stay" alone will work, but he usually slowly self destructs without something else to do on top of it.
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Dec 28, 2012 15:41
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Fraction posted:I always forget about things like that because if Lola was told 'stay over there while I do something that makes you anxious' she would have a meltdown. She's much better if I engage her directly and give her a thing to do like fetch or just eat all the things. It can be really handy and you can teach this skill nice and slowly. Do you do any leave it work with her? Psyche has a Leave It and a Wait command and a pretty solid Stay and those three things together allow me to tell her she needs to stay put while I do a Stressful Thing. You don't need to do anything stressful to teach them either. For Wait, I literally put a treat in front of her (she knew leave it already) and reached around to the back of her head. If she turned to follow my hand, she didn't get the treat. I added the Wait command pretty quick and now if I say wait and reach for her, she freezes. She's very cute when she's trying not to squirm. If I say wait from a distance, she just stops whatever she was doing, like if she was going to run forward or bark. That's not as strong, but her stay makes up for it, so I use them together sometimes. It's good to teach dogs to slowly work through their meltdown issues. We purposely do things that frustrate Psyche and work up the amount of time she can deal with it. We use the techniques she likes better for the real hard stuff, of course, but for smaller things, she can deal with it if it gets me results faster (like when she decided I wasn't allowed to touch the thermostat and would jump on me and bark in my face).
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Dec 28, 2012 16:03
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Lola's funny about 'leave it'. If I ask her to 'leave' something, she will move away from whatever it is. I think it's yer choice games (i.e. dog must move nose away from hand to get treat) broke her mind. She has nearly perfect stay, and she will down/stay from the other side of a field. For us, 'wait' is just a less intense stay, and means 'wait in that general area until I say okay'. Pretty much all she wants in a stressful situation is to be near me, so saying 'no, you gotta stay THERE' would be punishing for her.
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Dec 28, 2012 17:01
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Fraction posted:Lola's funny about 'leave it'. If I ask her to 'leave' something, she will move away from whatever it is. I think it's yer choice games (i.e. dog must move nose away from hand to get treat) broke her mind. Haha I have the same problem with Vecna. He refuses to follow a food lure because we played IYC a ton when he was a potato. Now when he sees a lure he seems to think "if I sit and don't look at it, I will get a food". Thankfully he understands pointing and hand targeting really well or I'd be hosed.
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Dec 28, 2012 17:12
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a life less posted:For spin, I would just make it super simple and put a cookie in front of Feldman's face and spin him around like that. Then fade the lure. Then fade the hand signal into something less obvious. My cues for Cohen are "spin" and "left" (she used to have a twirl, but she lost it when I taught her a scoot) and my hand signals are tiny little circles with my finger in the direction I want her to go. I did the same in training Pippa and Yeti (the Bengal cat) to spin. Yeti knows "left" and "right" verbally and Pippa of course just the tiny circles with the finger. Basically went down from wide arc over her head after a lure to the tiny circles. Sometimes she goes the wrong way but I think it's mostly my errors causing that as she picks up on very, very subtle cues (good thing for a deafie I guess!) so moving my finger into the position I want it in to start the cue might set her off to spin the other way. Fraction posted:Lola's funny about 'leave it'. If I ask her to 'leave' something, she will move away from whatever it is. I think it's yer choice games (i.e. dog must move nose away from hand to get treat) broke her mind. This is what Yeti does too (except he usually still stares longingly at it). When they got their PISS presents and I was making him leave the salmon treat, I picked it up and moved it closer to him without releasing him and here: From this  To this  
Topoisomerase fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Dec 28, 2012 |
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Dec 28, 2012 20:16
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Okay I need help! Feldman BIT me just now! Not hard, but twice in a row. He managed to find a used Bounce drier sheet, and was growling when I tried to keep the dumbass from eating it. When I pulled it from his mouth, he bit me twice on the fingers. My mom said I should have smacked him but I don't think smacking him is the right thing to do. How do I keep him from doing this again? I got real mad and yelled 'Hey don't you dare loving do THAT!' then went 'oh god I yelled at him '
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Dec 31, 2012 03:20
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Bash Ironfist posted:Okay I need help! Feldman BIT me just now! Not hard, but twice in a row. He managed to find a used Bounce drier sheet, and was growling when I tried to keep the dumbass from eating it. When I pulled it from his mouth, he bit me twice on the fingers. Resource guarding is super common and generally responds well to training as long as you put a bit of work into it. Here's a good place to start and the book Mine! by Jean Donaldson is generally recommended too. It's pretty cheap on amazon. I think I'm the only person at work who has a dog that doesn't resource guard against people. One can't run agility because he resource guards the obstacles and tries to bite his owner if she gets near them while he's running. Edit: If your dog is making a face like this don't try to take whatever he has unless you want to get bit.  Instant Jellyfish fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Dec 31, 2012 |
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Dec 31, 2012 03:31
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I am trying so hard to be good and not post "Punt him down the stairs like I did the time Frankie bit me for making him get off the bed" and I guess I'm not gonna be successful in not posting it. edit: PSA: (no, I do not actually think you should punt dogs)
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Dec 31, 2012 03:42
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Instant Jellyfish posted:Resource guarding is super common and generally responds well to training as long as you put a bit of work into it. Here's a good place to start and the book Mine! by Jean Donaldson is generally recommended too. It's pretty cheap on amazon. Well to be fair my dog looks like this:  So it's hard to tell when he's making a face, or just, you know. Looking at you. Edit: Will read that blog thing, thanks!
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Dec 31, 2012 03:56
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quote:Myth #4: Resource guarding is a symptom of “dominance” or “pushiness.” When used correctly, the term dominance means priority access to preferred resources. Sukka the puppy has recently decided that all toys, all food and all people belong to him. If allowed, he'll pester and push the other dogs around until they yield. If one of the Lapponians picks up an item or comes to me for pets, Sukka's right there to tell them to go away in more or less subtle terms. Generally, he's just being obnoxious and trying to harass the other dog to move. In my opinion, this is exactly the behavior of a young dog pushing his limits and trying to establish dominance (re: resources). I'm not sitting on my hands and allowing this to become a problem. It's just one of the signs of my puppy growing up and it will be dealt with appropriately. I'm just wondering if you guys think interpreting this as pushiness and dominance (in the priority access to resources sense) is "wrong". Then again, is this behavior not resource guarding?
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Dec 31, 2012 10:45
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I think in situations like that, the issue is labeling multiple behaviours as dominance, and then trying to fix them by addressing other (actually unrelated) problems but not the one at hand. Like trying to fix resource guarding by insisting your dog never walk in front of you on walks because they're both "dominant" behaviours. The issue for me is more that it's a sloppy language/labeling problem in situations where a great deal of specificity should be employed. So, yeah, Sukka is totally being pushy and a bit of a bitch. I also think that left unaddressed it'd lead to additional problems down the road. I'm sure you'll probably address the problem through some Its Yer Choice type exercises and other ways to strengthen his tolerance for frustration as well as CC/DS type exercises. We can call it whatever you want, but I think the misuse of the term dominant these days construes a host of bad information along with the good. I'd probably just call it guarding.
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Dec 31, 2012 16:12
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What's the proper way to address that type of behavior? I've been having a hard time finding good information on dealing with dog-dog resource guarding as all the information I've come across deal with dog-human guarding and Vecna doesn't do that at all. Vecna has started doing really similar things to what Rixatrix described. He's a greedy little poo poo when it comes to toys and he tries to physically block strange dogs that solicit attention from my husband and me. With toys, putting them away doesn't work very well (though I still do it anyways) because he's smart enough to know where the toy is and will just guard that area/person/backpack instead. if he doesn't see where the toy went, he correctly assumes that one of us has it in our pocket and guards us instead. When he's an rear end to other dogs I immediately turn my back on him, take away his toys, walk away quickly, refuse to make eye contact, and ignore his attempts to solicit affection. It's worked to some extent, he'll usually knock it off pretty quickly and incidences have gone down somewhat. But I don't know if there's a better way to deal with this or if part of the reason he's toned it down is due to adult dogs who completely ignore his stupid teenager bullshit.
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Dec 31, 2012 16:49
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I've always used luring to teach penny new tricks. I've been trying to "capture" a behavior since summer unsuccessfully. Maybe you guys have a tip for me. When we go on walks there is one specific area of the park where if she pee's I can tell her to wipe her feet and she will wipe all 4 feet for 5 seconds straight and it's super funny to me. I can reliably get her to do the trick in that one section by command about 80% of the time. It only works if she stops to pee there though. Jackpots follow the wiping of her feet. I've tried the command in other sections of the park when she stops to pee including about 50 feet away from where she will do it. She always just ignores me. Am I poisoning the cue by trying it after she pee's somewhere else and her ignoring me? Any tips on getting her to do it in other parts of the park or at home eventually? She has only ever done that behavior after going pee so I can't capture it anywhere else. I don't carry a clicker on my walks usually. Would bringing one help?
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Dec 31, 2012 18:02
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a life less posted:So, yeah, Sukka is totally being pushy and a bit of a bitch. I also think that left unaddressed it'd lead to additional problems down the road. triangulum, overall I just make sure that behavior doesn't lead to the consequences the puppy wants. If he pushes another dog out of the way to solicit attention for himself, he goes behind the puppy gate and I keep petting the other dog until the puppy is calm and giving me nice behavior. To make it easier for him to offer good behavior, I work on reinforcing behaviors I want to see instead. I want to see him sit nicely and wait for his turn to be petted, so I reinforce sitting and waiting a lot in other situations. We work a lot on It's Yer Choice type games at the moment, which will help (like a life less said). If the puppy offers me nice behavior instead of being an rear end, I immediately reward that by giving attention or inviting him to play or whatever I have available. I don't see myself doing DS&CC work to address this, because I think it is more easily resolved in an operant way. Frustratingly the Lapponians yield a bit too easily when Sukka is being an rear end. I'd like to see them give Sukka some appropriate feedback on what is acceptable, but they just rather leave it to me.
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Dec 31, 2012 18:08
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I can't really stick him behind a puppy gate because he only deals with other dogs when we'reout and about. Unfortunately my only friend with a dog here no longer has him  I try to limit his interaction with unknown/pushover dogs at the park to a greeting and playing for a couple of minutes before recalling him and taking him somewhere else so he doesn't have the chance to practice rear end in a top hat behavior. I can't really let him be around other male puppies at all or he turns into the biggest dick in the world. I only let him have lots of dog playtime with dogs I know will ignore his shitfits and/or correct him. There's an adult male GSD I run into a lot who's fantastic about this and if Vecna throws a resource guardy fit, I just ignore him and play with Anniko until Vecna decides to behave himself. Like I said, he has been getting better about it and I know it's really normal behavior for an unneutered male going through puberty but drat is it obnoxious. But I don't want it to escalate and I worry that there's more I could be doing to curb the behavior.
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Dec 31, 2012 18:36
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Triangulum posted:I know it's really normal behavior for an unneutered male going through puberty but drat is it obnoxious. I think you're on the right track avoiding situations where Vecna's obnoxious behavior is (self)reinforced and seeking out other dogs that know how to act appropriately with a pushy puppy. Just keep reinforcing appropriate behaviors and building Vecna's self control skills and it will pay off. I'm trying to think of it all as just one more thing the puppy needs to go through to learn how to cope out in the world - just like biting anything and everything is a phase younger puppies go through and you need to teach them what is appropriate. (I'm NOT looking forward to the eventual "gently caress you, I'm sniffing this floor and drooling" phase of adolescent male dog behavior.)
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Dec 31, 2012 19:50
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I feel like a complete failure. My brother got married and my grandparents came to town. I'd been worried about how well Beartato would get along with Grandma. Grandma's mind...she'd always kinda been firing on three cylinders and now she's down to about one and a half. She kept doing things like push my dog's face towards hers to make him give her kisses and grab at his toys while he's playing with them (this only happened Christmas Eve when we were opening presents and he got a toy(I am working on this and he's mostly okay with me around his toys now)) and putting her hand down under the coffee table to pet the dog after the first words out of my mouth when they got in the house were, "The dog really hates this, don't do that". I wasn't supervising the grandparents closely enough once and I came downstairs and there were chocolates out on a plate on an end table. My dog is a thief with a horrible sweet tooth. I should have watched them better, but some of it I only heard about afterward and some...I just didn't think about. Some of it just seemed like common sense and some of it she's just not there and I don't quite realize it until she does something unexpected. Dog got along with the grandparents great. I had a friend come by to let the dog out while I was at the wedding. Treats, leash, and flashlight are on the counter, use treats to attract dog, attach leash to preattached harness, take dog outside to pee, take dog back inside, detach leash, put up baby gate confining dog to room he wants to be in anyway, leave. Easy job for someone who has been raised with dogs and cats and animals in general, right? Didn't her last roommates have like five dogs or something? He bit her. On the bright side, he held his bladder the entire time we were gone. In retrospect, it's not really surprising. He freaks out when I leave. He's quiet when I come back if I've been gone for a bit, I think he just goes to sleep, but when I leave and there are familiar people around he will stare at the door and whine the entire time I am gone. So he was already upset from my absence to begin with. I haven't really had anyone else take him out on a leash aside from my mom and that's really rare and she's always around and he adores her. He sort of knew my friend, they'd met a few times and he seemed to like her, but we didn't have any practice sessions of putting on the leash because we didn't know if she could do it and then everything was super busy and hahaha how hard is it to put on a leash? I'd been watching my cell to make sure everything was going okay and she'd lured him onto her lap with fresh turkey from the fridge, but he kept dodging every time she'd try to leash him. I think what she said was that she had him eating turkey with one hand and decided to move really quickly with the other, not thinking that he could twist around like she discovered he could do. It was at least 20 minutes between the first and last message, she was probably incredibly frustrated and he was also upset. I was texting her at the reception at the time (I tried calling, but the lovely stone building I was in was not designed for phone calls) and he was a lot calmer when he could hear my voice. So. Um. Vet after the first (today I guess) and a behaviorist after that. I'd been meaning to go to a vet closer to the house and I think I have to renew his license and rabies soon. Behaviorist might be a good idea anyway, I can't seem to train my parents even when I hit them with a rolled up newspaper. How do I get him to be more calm? How do I get him to be more calm when I'm not there? I looked at this video by Kikopup and I don't think he learned anything other than how to climb out of the exercise pen, but considering the speed at which he did that, I don't think it was his first time. Using a crate for that is doable, but the pen looks so much nicer. I think part of it is he just needs an initial push. If he's less upset about me being gone then he won't be as upset the next time because he won't remember being so upset. How do I help my dog be less scared and me be less stupid?
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Jan 1, 2013 09:10
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Is there a YouTube video on how to train your parents while training your dog? Cause holy poo poo it's about twice as hard. I trained our new puppy to sit in a few days, which made my dad decide that he's going to train her too. This involves constantly saying 'no' while she bites him, and giving her random treats for things she did 15 mins ago. It's a loving battle of attrition over here. She now sits without anyone telling her to because my dad's just been giving her treats whenever. I'm kind of just hoping he'll get tired and bored before I do, otherwise we're going to have yet another adorable dog that acts like an idiot.
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Jan 1, 2013 09:32
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Dogdoo 8 posted:How do I help my dog be less scared and me be less stupid? Since you need for someone else to be able to walk him occasionally, get him used to luring into a slip lead. Going over the back of little dogs can be really scary for them, so a traditional harness can actually be harder to leash up than a collar. I like the thick climbing-rope style leads - open a hole twice the size of his head, stick your hand through with treats, and feed while you slip it over his head. No moving parts to clip means less time for him to react and snap. As for separation anxiety, McConnell's 'I'll be home soon' is usually a go-to reference. How much group training have you done with him? Anecdotally, I've found that the positive associations of training with a rotating set of unfamiliar dogs and people have helped my dogs relax a lot faster around strangers, even when they come into my house.
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Jan 1, 2013 23:09
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The slip lead looks hugely helpful. The book does too, and it's like $6 for the Kindle version. I've only done a 6 week obedience class with him, which he handled very well. He's generally fond of strangers and people in general and anything that will give him attention. He liked my grandparents a lot. A few hours after they left for home he pooped on the carpet outside their room. He hadn't had problems in some time and I had worried that he'd decide that peeing outside was inconvenient when the weather turned cold and the snow got deep. He was fine, but the grandparents left and he started marking there. Is there some sort of doggy psychology reasoning for this? He never showed any interest in that hallway before at all and there's nothing really there. The area's good now- I admit I was a bit excited to use the mini steam cleaner I picked up on Black Friday and I'll be keeping him tethered for the duration.
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Jan 2, 2013 06:06
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Hello dog training thread! A dear friend of mine has 3 dogs, 2 pure bred shiba inu and a shiba-looking mix from a rescue. I'm looking for recommendations for a trainer and/or behaviorist that serves the Long Island, NY area. The story: My friend and her family (husband, daughter) go on vacation and leave the dogs with her parents for a few days. A tree went down in her yard while they were gone. When they get home they put the fence back up but the mixed breed dog dug under the fence where the soil was disturbed, got into the neighbor's yard and mauled the elderly lab that lived there. He's scrapped with the other male dog a bit but nothing anywhere near this level, usually over treats which they now get seperately so they don't squabble. The lab had to be put down, my friend is absolutely horrified and beside herself about the whole thing. The mix is not allowed out of the house without a leash, period (they had free access to the fenced back yard) until the fence is repaired properly and dig-proofing installed. She covered all the vet bills for the lab, and I'm helping her look for someone to evaluate the dog's behavior so she can understand it and work on training with him.
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Jan 4, 2013 21:26
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Ugh training Vecna to pivot has been the most frustrating thing I've ever tried to teach him. It's taken me weeks to get him to stand on the target (a large book) rather than lay/sit down while putting his front feet on it. And now that he's got that book on floor = stand with front feet on book, he for some reason thinks I want him to put all four feet on the book  He does take some steps sideways but after like 2 repetitions his tiny dog brain just short circuits and all he wants to do is try and balance on the book and whine.drat it just take a step with your back legs dog it's super easy.
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Jan 4, 2013 22:25
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I need help. I have been trying to teach my dog to ask to pee via traditional training methods. He is about 1 year and two months old. I have him ring a bell, wake him outside every two hours, etc., and he doesn't seem to be latching onto any method. For the bell ringing, he'd do it once or twice, and then stop altogether, acting as if we never taught it to him to begin with, so we tried a new method. We definitely make it clear that we love that he goes outside, and dislike when he pees/poops inside. When he DOES eliminate inside, he will run to his crate and cower until we find it or he will refuse to walk to the particular area where he pooped. So, he knows it is wrong. He can ask to be let out. He will whimper, or stare at us wagging his tail. We ask if he has to "go potty outside" and he gets excited. so clearly he knows the verbal queues (we consistently say "potty outside!" and how to get us to move. He is particularly good with this in the car; he whimpers and puts his paw on one of our shoulders until we can stop. Yet, he usually does not do these things. I'd say he does these things 25% of the time. The rest of the time, he will wait until we take him out, or will just unleash urine onto our floors. If for some reason we cannot let him out for a bit, he will hold it until he can't anymore. And sometimes, though we let him out (and he has ample play time outside/dog parks/walks), he will hold it until he can't anymore and dribble on the floor as he runs to hide from the fact that he is dribbling across the livingroom. He is particularly bad about this at night. His favorite spot is the staircase. We will wake up to take him outside only to find that he already unloaded a huge pile of poop or a gallon of pee on the stairs. This is all in spite of the fact that he has a dirt area to use, on the patio. For awhile, he took to peeing on a rug on the patio, so I gradually moved it to where I want him to pee. This has turned into him being fearful of going onto the patio (it's enclosed with no yard) to pee/poop at all. If he does, he will hide it. That is only IF he does. It's usually dribbled elsewhere in the house, or on the staircase. It has been about 4 months of this back and forth, but he seems to continue to keep taking HUGE steps back and I am not sure what else to do. It is actually getting worse, rather than better. Meanwhile, my carpet cleaning bill has skyrocketed exponentially since adopting him! I need to understand his psyche, or figure out a method that will work with a seemingly dense dog. Since he had his – seemingly 1000th incident – last night, I have banned him from carpeted areas until 1) I can remove the stains and 2) I can figure out what to do. Is there anything I can do, or do I need professional help?
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Jan 5, 2013 00:55
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LimeMonger posted:We definitely make it clear that we love that he goes outside, and dislike when he pees/poops inside. When he DOES eliminate inside, he will run to his crate and cower until we find it or he will refuse to walk to the particular area where he pooped. So, he knows it is wrong. Two questions: what size/breed is he, and what's the weather condition like outside this time of year? You've probably inadvertently taught him that peeing makes you mad, rather than anything about the inside/outside element. Scolding a dog for housesoiling usually exacerbates problems, meaning they'll hide from you and be less likely to eliminate when they're supervised outside. He's offering appeasement gestures when a mess exists rather than picking up on his role in creating the mess - dogs are stupid like that. So starting from square one: Thorough cleaning of all soiled areas with an enzymatic cleaner. Dog is supervised at all times inside. For the first week, I'd have him either tethered to a person or in a crate. If he starts peeing in the house, take him outside immediately and praise/treat for continuing out there. Put him in a crate to sleep, so he doesn't have access to the stairs. Schedule pee breaks - at this point maybe once every four hours during the day, in addition to 30 minutes after any meal and immediately after any intense play time. Ring a bell every time you go outside (it can't hurt, just don't expect him to pick it up on his own at all quickly). Treat every time he eliminates outside for the first week (he may not handle praise that well at first, because he's likely a little wary of your reaction). Fade treats to 75% over the next week, fade to 50% the week after that, and then fade to randomly once a day or every couple of days long-term. You can also fade the frequency of scheduled breaks to every 6-8 hours + after food/intense play. Scheduled breaks outside are business-only, five minutes of brisk walking (in a circle around your yard if need be). If you can put peeing on cue that can be really useful - wait until he starts, give your cue, then treat afterwards. Gradually move the cue back to earlier signals that he's going to pee. Eventually you'll be able to cue him to pee, which should help with the 'waiting until he bursts' phenomenon. I realize this protocol sounds like overkill, but you're starting from a disadvantage. I would not let him go out of a person's sight in the house (uncrated) until he's gone for two weeks with no accidents at all. My first dog housetrained perfectly in a condo in two weeks. My second dog took 3-4 months of a strict schedule before I trusted him for more than a couple of hours inside - he's not free to roam at night and probably never will be. He improved so gradually I did not see it at the time, but comparing now (~18 months later) to when he first came home is like night and day. Putting in extra time to go out with him on leash on a set schedule and keep track of him in the house has paid off considerably long-term. Triangulum posted:Ugh training Vecna to pivot has been the most frustrating thing I've ever tried to teach him. It's taken me weeks to get him to stand on the target (a large book) rather than lay/sit down while putting his front feet on it. And now that he's got that book on floor = stand with front feet on book, he for some reason thinks I want him to put all four feet on the book Are you staying stationary in relation to him, or are you starting the pivot by moving yourself around? I had to trick Stella into pivoting to get beyond the 'stamp on the book and howl' phase of training - taking advantage of the fact that she wanted to face me, and then I used her momentum to get a wider and wider arc that eventually swung around by me. Engineer Lenk fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jan 5, 2013 |
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Jan 5, 2013 01:53
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Triangulum posted:Ugh training Vecna to pivot has been the most frustrating thing I've ever tried to teach him. It's taken me weeks to get him to stand on the target (a large book) rather than lay/sit down while putting his front feet on it. And now that he's got that book on floor = stand with front feet on book, he for some reason thinks I want him to put all four feet on the book How did you teach him to stand on the book? I find that things like this are a lot stronger with shaping rather than luring. I shaped Psyche to put her front feet on a book (I used a smallish one...probably harder to maneuver on, but she couldn't fit all four feet on it), and then stuck a treat in front of her face so she would not try to follow me while I got into position next to her and then used the treat to keep her face forward and pulled the treat around as I step toward her side. If she steps off the book now, I ask her 'where're your feet?' and she tries to put her feet back on without looking away from me. If you didn't teach the feet thing with shaping, I would go ahead and try it. I tried to teach Psyche to walk backward via luring for a few weeks and got absolutely nowhere. She figured it out in like half an hour with shaping. Sometimes you just need a different technique to get your dog to have a lightbulb moment.
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Jan 5, 2013 03:32
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Kiri koli posted:How did you teach him to stand on the book? I find that things like this are a lot stronger with shaping rather than luring. I shaped Psyche to put her front feet on a book (I used a smallish one...probably harder to maneuver on, but she couldn't fit all four feet on it), and then stuck a treat in front of her face so she would not try to follow me while I got into position next to her and then used the treat to keep her face forward and pulled the treat around as I step toward her side. If she steps off the book now, I ask her 'where're your feet?' and she tries to put her feet back on without looking away from me. Strictly speaking, the treat in front of her face is luring to keep her still. Did your method of keeping her still and moving around into position translate easily into a pivot? I just played the start of pivot with my crazy dog - he has a nice shaped 'paws on' , but his next reaction is an auto-down followed shortly by frustration screaming if I try to wait him out. I switched to training stand on the book for short durations. Once he got that he'd put himself into a stand-stay, so I used my motion to start him side-stepping. We ran out of his dinner still working on one step then reset. He'll still try a bow so I have to be careful about it fading into a down again.
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Jan 5, 2013 04:06
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