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I've dreamed of getting a TDI for years, and now that I've got a job for the first time since 2008, I might be able to afford one soon. The problem is, my job is delivering pizzas, and my more mechanically inclined friend tells me I'd be better off sticking with my '92 Camry just due to the price of parts and maintenance. He says a TDI is a better fit for someone making $60,000 a year in an office job. Is my friend giving me good advice, or would I be able to get away with a '97-'00 TDI as a delivery vehicle? (Since I gather the parts are cheaper for those years.)
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Dec 29, 2012 01:37
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Caithness posted:I've dreamed of getting a TDI for years, and now that I've got a job for the first time since 2008, I might be able to afford one soon. The problem is, my job is delivering pizzas, and my more mechanically inclined friend tells me I'd be better off sticking with my '92 Camry just due to the price of parts and maintenance. He says a TDI is a better fit for someone making $60,000 a year in an office job. I guess it depends, his advice makes sense if you were going to go buy a NEW TDI, but if you have the money to spend on a used third party TDI, I'd say it would be the better deal. Especially if you deliver pizza, I can imagine the fuel savings would be worth it, just make sure you know its maintenance background.
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Dec 29, 2012 01:43
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CommieGIR posted:Especially if you deliver pizza, I can imagine the fuel savings would be worth it, just make sure you know its maintenance background. As a former pizza delivery driver and fan of diesels, I'm gonna have to disagree. Keep the beater for deliveries. Delivering is hard on cars, and you don't want to have to be careful with your car. Trust me, delivery with the beater is better.
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Dec 29, 2012 19:27
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sharkytm posted:As a former pizza delivery driver and fan of diesels, I'm gonna have to disagree. Keep the beater for deliveries. Delivering is hard on cars, and you don't want to have to be careful with your car. Trust me, delivery with the beater is better. I'll trust your judgement, I've never been a delivery driver. What reasons do you think having a diesel would be worse for delivery, just out of curiosity?
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Dec 29, 2012 19:41
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Don't they get worse gas mileage on short trips?
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Dec 29, 2012 19:49
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ultimateforce posted:Don't they get worse gas mileage on short trips? 30 MPG is what I get on average for city, 25 MPG if I'm racing from light to light
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Dec 29, 2012 19:50
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I'm researching cars for my wife as her junk escort is dying a slow death, and the longevity of diesels is very appealing. After talking with her, her number one priority is getting a car that will last for a good long while and be relatively dependable in getting her to work every day. To that end, I'm looking at fourth-generation Jetta TDIs, pre-2002, as I understand they updated the engine to something significantly more complex at that time. The good safety marks are also a compelling argument. Can anyone more experienced than me chime in on the reputation of these cars? edit: I have been looking at the usual japanese suspects for commuter cars, but I'd like to get something with a little more character/build quality
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Dec 29, 2012 20:16
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CommieGIR posted:30 MPG is what I get on average for city, 25 MPG if I'm racing from light to light I mean until it gets warm.
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Dec 29, 2012 20:18
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ultimateforce posted:I mean until it gets warm. For the years he specified, they had coolant glow plugs to accelerate warming the block to operating temperature, plus if he is running deliveries he can leave the motor running and it'll consume so little and keep the engine at temperature. The Third Man posted:I'm researching cars for my wife as her junk escort is dying a slow death, and the longevity of diesels is very appealing. After talking with her, her number one priority is getting a car that will last for a good long while and be relatively dependable in getting her to work every day. To that end, I'm looking at fourth-generation Jetta TDIs, pre-2002, as I understand they updated the engine to something significantly more complex at that time. The good safety marks are also a compelling argument. Can anyone more experienced than me chime in on the reputation of these cars? Pre-2002 was the ALH and 1Z/AHU blocks, the 1Z and AHU being 97-99 and ALH from late 99 (or 99.5 as they say on TDIClub) to 2002, its a fairly simple design, the big advantage of the ALH block is the addition of the VNT turbocharger, or variable vane which allowed the engine to spool up much faster. This will also allow you to avoid the 2003 models which had issues with snapping cams and the teething issues with the PD engines. Technically the 1Z/AHU block was Gen III, but still a good engine. Most parts are interchangeable except for the Injection Pumps and turbocharger, they are interchangeable but not without modification to the mounts in the case of the turbo and the injection pump has a different size shaft (10mm 1Z/AHU vs 11mm ALH) If they've been properly cared for, the engine is bulletproof as long as you keep the right oil in it and change the timing belt on time. I remember hearing though that the 2000 on model bodies (IV generation) has issues with rust. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Dec 29, 2012 |
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Dec 29, 2012 20:30
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CommieGIR posted:For the years he specified, they had coolant glow plugs to accelerate warming the block to operating temperature, plus if he is running deliveries he can leave the motor running and it'll consume so little and keep the engine at temperature. 
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Dec 29, 2012 21:03
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 It was mainly for emissions, but it warms my TDI up pretty fast, hell it got my TDI warm in -20 degree weather in Cheyenne in about 7-8 minutes. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Dec 29, 2012 |
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Dec 29, 2012 21:24
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Wikipedia and TDIClub both say that it was 2004 that the PD engine came in. I'm pretty sure that the VE engine was used from 97-2003, with the ALH/AHU change in 99.
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Dec 30, 2012 03:00
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Opensourcepirate posted:Wikipedia and TDIClub both say that it was 2004 that the PD engine came in. I'm pretty sure that the VE engine was used from 97-2003, with the ALH/AHU change in 99. First PD Engine started in Europe 2000, arrived 2-3 years later. Sorry, my years for the US models were off, but yes it arrived here around 2003.
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Dec 30, 2012 03:06
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CommieGIR posted:For the years he specified, they had coolant glow plugs to accelerate warming the block to operating temperature, plus if he is running deliveries he can leave the motor running and it'll consume so little and keep the engine at temperature. My parents' 2000 TDI Jetta has over 535k km with normal maintenance, as an example. Most of that has been with chip+injectors, which helped with the EGR issues that were happening (I.e. coking in intake manifold).
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Dec 30, 2012 03:27
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CommieGIR posted:If they've been properly cared for, the engine is bulletproof as long as you keep the right oil in it and change the timing belt on time. I remember hearing though that the 2000 on model bodies (IV generation) has issues with rust. I have a 2000, 223k miles of commuting and some road trips. Rust is an issue if you live in the north, mine is rusting on the edge below the hatch glass and one of the fenders has a quarter size spot where the paint fell off from rust. It was a Wisconsin car until two years ago though and driven year round.
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Dec 30, 2012 05:29
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I live in MA and it's definitely rust that kills TDI's around here. The last time I went to a TDIClub meet there were two cars with more than 400,000 miles. I don't know if I'm ever going to own a TDI again though, just because I don't drive enough miles to justify the high prices they command on the used market. If I was buying a new car it would be more worth it. If you want a car that's not going to break but you don't drive a lot of miles, I'd probably just get like a Civic. You can get something a few years newer with a gasoline engine for the same prices as a TDI.
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Dec 30, 2012 06:47
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Opensourcepirate posted:I live in MA and it's definitely rust that kills TDI's around here. The last time I went to a TDIClub meet there were two cars with more than 400,000 miles. He is talking used for 1997-2003, those have all dropped down to around $5000 or less private sale, anyone asking more than $6k is insane. But Opensourcepirate has a point: If you are going used for early years, they are fairly well priced, but they get expensive as you get closer to new, and much more expensive. If you are just looking for an ecobox, Honda would be simpler, but if you put a lot of miles on a car and want good fuel economy in the low 40's or better on the highway, a TDI will do. I just want to add this: I'd still buy a TDI if I was only doing around town. Even around town on a 12 gallon tank going to work every day I was only filling up every 3 weeks. The fuel cost more, but the mileage you get generally outweighs the extra cost, even in town and you use less of said fuel, so it tends to stretch out longer. But that is just my personal opinion. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Dec 30, 2012 |
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Dec 30, 2012 16:46
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In my situation, the car would be used as a daily driver, roughly 30-40mi/day to and from work. Now, I could get a Focus a few years newer for a similar price, but given the rust and general condition on my wife's current 2000 Escort, I am not as confident that a Focus would be as good of a long-term "investment" as a Jetta. I am willing to pay a premium now to get some appreciable fuel savings over time, and I'm also willing to pay a premium on parts if properly maintaining the car could potentially mean several hundred thousand more miles.
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Dec 31, 2012 01:19
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This probably isn't the first documented TDI v10 truck pull, but it's the first one I've seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k62gW3Se5e0
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Dec 31, 2012 01:57
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blk posted:This probably isn't the first documented TDI v10 truck pull, but it's the first one I've seen: Seeing how the Touareg weights about the same (if not slightly more) as the Silverado, its pretty easy match. Plus on top of it, the weight is more balanced, you can see the truck hop all around because there is not a lick of weight in the front. Edit: whoops, I meant the back. The front has all the weight. BrokenKnucklez fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Dec 31, 2012 |
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Dec 31, 2012 02:06
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BrokenKnucklez posted:Seeing how the Touareg weights about the same (if not slightly more) as the Silverado, its pretty easy match. Plus on top of it, the weight is more balanced, you can see the truck hop all around because there is not a lick of weight in the front. Not to mention the 5 liter V10 generates nearly the same torque as the 5.9l Cummins
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Dec 31, 2012 02:10
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More like because he has a lovely lift kit.
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Dec 31, 2012 02:10
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I really wish people would stop doing pull offs like this, it doesn't mean poo poo, just who has the better traction.
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Dec 31, 2012 05:34
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InterceptorV8 posted:I really wish people would stop doing pull offs like this, it doesn't mean poo poo, just who has the better traction. Rednecks never grow up
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Dec 31, 2012 06:17
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Pulling a redneck pickup? Try pulling a 747. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhk3VRtU5Dk
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Dec 31, 2012 13:49
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With the lack of a throttle valve and associated vacuum pumping drag is there really any point in downshifting for engine braking in everyday driving with a TDI? I still have the habit from driving a Jeep 4.0 in hilly and mountainous areas. On the plus side I'm always in an appropriate gear for accelerating and it cuts engine lag, but on the other hand it can't be great for the wear items in the drivetrain such as the syncros and clutch. I know for some reason engine braking is a touchy subject in general, but I'm just wondering if for the new year I should try to change habits and just let the engine wind down in whatever gear I'm driving in, put in the clutch, and use the brakes from there.
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Jan 1, 2013 18:24
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There's still the work done to compress the air, as well as friction losses through rings/bearings/etc, so it would work still, but its efficacy is really dependent on the compression ratio as vacuum enhanced pumping losses aren't present in diesels.
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Jan 1, 2013 18:31
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Generally, a diesel will produce at least as much engine braking as the equivalent-sized petrol engine, usually more.
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Jan 1, 2013 20:53
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Shifty Pony posted:With the lack of a throttle valve and associated vacuum pumping drag is there really any point in downshifting for engine braking in everyday driving with a TDI? My TDI doesn't seem all that different to my old SVT Focus in regards to engine braking.
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Jan 2, 2013 03:43
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InitialDave posted:Generally, a diesel will produce at least as much engine braking as the equivalent-sized petrol engine, usually more. fknlo posted:My TDI doesn't seem all that different to my old SVT Focus in regards to engine braking. You know... I think you are all right. There is all this nonsense online saying about how diesels don't make effective engine brakes because of how they don't have to do any work pulling vacuum against a throttle plate. Logically it made sense that the air compressed would just spring back out and all you would be left with was mechanical friction as the drag force, but it always felt wrong in practice. For example when driving my father's Toyata 2.4L 22-R powered pickup it has nowhere near the engine braking of my TDI (even though that is nowhere near a fair comparison). Perhaps it is one of those "in a perfect engine" things where in real life you have some vacuum from the air cleaner and intercooler, exhaust backpressure from the turbo and muffler, blow-by in the cylinders, and all sorts of other things which likely ad up to give better braking than would be expected. Maybe people see the extra engine brakes on trucks and think that they somehow are a requirement for any engine braking and not just an ingenious way of getting a bit extra braking power to slow the tons of weight following behind. I should just drive like I want to and not worry about it until I have to make a boat payment for my mechanic when the synchros wear out.
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Jan 3, 2013 02:00
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Shifty Pony posted:You know... I think you are all right. There is all this nonsense online saying about how diesels don't make effective engine brakes because of how they don't have to do any work pulling vacuum against a throttle plate. Logically it made sense that the air compressed would just spring back out and all you would be left with was mechanical friction as the drag force, but it always felt wrong in practice. For example when driving my father's Toyata 2.4L 22-R powered pickup it has nowhere near the engine braking of my TDI (even though that is nowhere near a fair comparison). The compression of the diesel motor generally helps braking somewhat, I know that its easier for my car to handle going down steep grades if I just let the engine and the gears do the work than my brakes, and its easier to do than in my Audi which doesn't seem to resist going downhill as much.
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Jan 3, 2013 02:23
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Modern diesel engines have engine braking characteristics more akin to petrol engines. This is due to additional devices to allow them comply with emissions regulations. Two in particular cause significant engine braking: 1) Particulate filter This device filters out soot particles before they exit the exhaust, but it creates a large obstruction in the exhaust path. This causes considerable backpressure, much more than from the turbo charger mentioned above 2) EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculator) This device sucks exhaust gas back into the air intake and is usually controlled by a throttle which, depending on the design, can cause a restriction effect similar to that in petrol engines. This might explain a little why you feel more engine braking now, than on say, my 6.9L without any stuffin' in the mufflers. You should check out the neat stuff Cummins does with it's C-brake.
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Jan 3, 2013 04:21
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The DPF also makes for one hell of variation in braking power if you are going down a grade when it decides to do a regen. I noticed this after taking the same route a few times through the mountains when I traveled for work. For example down I-26 as it exits the Appalachians sometimes 4th gear would hold me at the speed limit with no braking but sometimes 4th and regular braking was required. As I got more used to the engine I could pick up when it was doing a regen (higher idle, rougher running, slight odor) and it matched up perfectly for those times that I had to get on the brakes.
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Jan 3, 2013 05:16
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Shifty Pony posted:The DPF also makes for one hell of variation in braking power if you are going down a grade when it decides to do a regen. I noticed this after taking the same route a few times through the mountains when I traveled for work. For example down I-26 as it exits the Appalachians sometimes 4th gear would hold me at the speed limit with no braking but sometimes 4th and regular braking was required. As I got more used to the engine I could pick up when it was doing a regen (higher idle, rougher running, slight odor) and it matched up perfectly for those times that I had to get on the brakes. Yeah, my turbo starts to sound more nasty when I'm regening.
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Jan 3, 2013 06:07
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Proud 2001 Jetta TDI 5 speed owner chiming in. My best tank was 59.18 MPG right after I'd cleaned out the intake manifold and was driving cross country. It looks like the Mazda 6 diesel will be coming to the States during the second half of this year: http://readme.readmedia.com/2014-Mazda6-to-Receive-New-SKYACTIV-Diesel-Engine/5199851 It looks to be the only affordable alternative to the VWs available now. I don't count the possible Audi and BMW diesels that might be coming our way as affordable for the everyman. The engine in the Mazda is confusing me a little. A big selling point is that it has the same compression ratio as the gas engine. I understand some pros of the lower ratio like lower weight, but I thought one of the main reasons diesels achieve such high fuel economy is because of the very high compression ratios. What are the merits of a diesel engine with an "extremely low 14:1 compression ratio" vs an engine with a higher compression ratio?
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Jan 4, 2013 01:03
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Hummer Driving human being posted:Proud 2001 Jetta TDI 5 speed owner chiming in. My best tank was 59.18 MPG right after I'd cleaned out the intake manifold and was driving cross country. Chevy is releasing a 2014 diesel Cruz this year, possibly this spring: http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-09-06/news/35496469_1_diesel-passenger-cars-chevy-cruze-jetta-tdi Hummer Driving human being posted:What are the merits of a diesel engine with an "extremely low 14:1 compression ratio" vs an engine with a higher compression ratio? I'm guessing its to combat the diesel sound, VW solved the heavy rattle through pilot injections and pre/post pilot injections. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jan 4, 2013 |
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Jan 4, 2013 01:48
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Hummer Driving human being posted:What are the merits of a diesel engine with an "extremely low 14:1 compression ratio" vs an engine with a higher compression ratio? http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/skyactiv/engine/skyactiv-d.html I don't know if it's all that great, but one thing I did notice was that they reduced a shitload of weight. Which makes the bean counter's dicks hard, because pulling 65+ pounds of metal out of a block saves money per engine. I always worry when they start pulling metal out of blocks and heads, as that seems to lead to more cracked blocks and heads. Seems to be some neat voodoo they are pulling with fuel timing. quote:Here, too, fuel-economy claims are impressive: 31 to 33 mpg city and 43 mpg highway for a Mazda 6 with the 2.2-liter diesel. Does an over-40-mpg family sedan sound good to anyone else? I like that 310 lb-ft out of a 2.2L.
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Jan 4, 2013 02:38
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Sorry to back up a bit, but I'm new to diesels and finding a lot of the 99-03 jettas in my price range(5-7kish) are over or pushing 200k, how much of a concern is this if I'm looking for a daily driver? Should I not be too worried if the car is documented well and has a positive inspection?
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Jan 4, 2013 03:13
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The Third Man posted:Sorry to back up a bit, but I'm new to diesels and finding a lot of the 99-03 jettas in my price range(5-7kish) are over or pushing 200k, how much of a concern is this if I'm looking for a daily driver? Should I not be too worried if the car is documented well and has a positive inspection? Ask the owner if they have records showing when the timing belt was done and what oil was used in oil changes, barring that ask when the last time the timing belt change was done. They tend to start to have issues if the correct oil wasn't used (either the OEM Volkswagen oil or 15w40/5w40. 5w30/10w30 is supposed to be okay, but I've seen it cause issues as far as reliability down the road). Pushing 200k miles is nothing new for a TDI engine, and if the car has been well treated and maintained, you should be good. One thing is to take it for a good test drive, and be aware many maintenance parts are coming due (rear wheel bearings and CV shafts are often well worn by this point.) Otherwise, you should be good. Check to make sure the clutch feels good, as many people don't know how to properly clutch with a diesel and tend to wear them out prematurely. Best way to test it, especially since its winter: Ask the owner to let you meet up with him or try to get to the dealership early in the morning. If it starts hard when cold, you may be in for trouble. If it starts smooth with little to no smoke, you are dandy. BEWARE: If you can drive stick go for the manual, the automatics of these years were NOT the best and had quite a few issues. Plus, stick will give you better fuel economy anyways. Check for blowby by taking off the oil cap while the motor is running and putting your hand over the oil fill hole, its the most common issue I've found with used TDI's is a lot of blow by due to worn piston rings because of the wrong oil being used. When in doubt, get it inspected by a good mechanic. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Jan 4, 2013 |
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Jan 4, 2013 03:21
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A few months ago I joined the diesel club with a 2011 VW Golf TDI, 6spd manual. Got it slightly used (~20k kms), which was a rare find, considering the premiums on these cars in Canada. Absolutely love it so far, the torque is addictive. Fuel economy has definitely dropped in the last month or so, but that can be attributed to both winter fuel and winter tires. Still getting better than 7L/100km (37+ mpg) Living in Edmonton, I was a little worried about the cold winters and fuel freezing, but as long as I plug in, I never have any problems, engine fires up in a heartbeat. CommieGIR posted:Check to make sure the clutch feels good, as many people don't know how to properly clutch with a diesel and tend to wear them out prematurely. Care to explain what you mean by properly clutching with a diesel?
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Jan 4, 2013 03:49
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