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This video (taken from a pro-Assad channel because it was taken down from the original channel) shows the opposition firing on a passenger jet near Idlib https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myOzxxxBfOw
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Dec 29, 2012 09:54
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Young Freud posted:It sounds like weaponized LSD.
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Dec 29, 2012 09:58
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Young Freud posted:It sounds like weaponized LSD. No. They're describing a cholinergic deleriant, not a tryptamine/serotonergic psychedelic. It's basically weaponized Datura.
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Dec 29, 2012 10:38
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Brown Moses posted:This video (taken from a pro-Assad channel because it was taken down from the original channel) shows the opposition firing on a passenger jet near Idlib The person giving orders from the background says it is a 'travel' plane at around 1:28, the guys on the gun argue wether or not it is a military or travel (civilian) plane with each other. At 1:30, the unseen guy operating the radio screams "Sheikh Ahmed says it is a travel plane, shoot it down". They decide to shoot in front of it. It is unclear if this was to actually hit it or as a warning shot, as there seems to be some sort of compromise or discontent going on. At the end they mention that the plane is now over 'Ma'asaran', and redirect the gun towards the mentioned location. Throughout the video, everybody seems very agitated and the radio chatter is all about the unidentified aircraft they're looking at.
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Dec 29, 2012 11:13
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Xandu posted:Kind of a weird drug to be using. I had a long reply with historical info written up but firefox ate it. In short, if Assad is desperate enough and clutching at straws they might just try using weapons like psychoactive compounds on their enemy in an effort to weaken them. However there are reasons why such weapons aren't being used in warfare, one of them being that it is not particularly effective and imprecise. Also, such weapons are just below the threshold for proper chemical warfare that could trigger a Nato response.
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Dec 29, 2012 12:12
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Young Freud posted:It sounds like weaponized LSD. No, it sounds much more like a textbook deliriant, ie. diphenhydramine (Benadryl), but in a potent aerosol form. However, I highly doubt that would be used.
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Dec 29, 2012 13:01
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Muffiner posted:The person giving orders from the background says it is a 'travel' plane at around 1:28, the guys on the gun argue wether or not it is a military or travel (civilian) plane with each other. At 1:30, the unseen guy operating the radio screams "Sheikh Ahmed says it is a travel plane, shoot it down". They decide to shoot in front of it. It is unclear if this was to actually hit it or as a warning shot, as there seems to be some sort of compromise or discontent going on. At the end they mention that the plane is now over 'Ma'asaran', and redirect the gun towards the mentioned location. Isn't it weird for a passenger plane to be flying over Syria at the moment?
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Dec 29, 2012 14:11
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Pieter posted:Isn't it weird for a passenger plane to be flying over Syria at the moment? There's still passenger flights between Damascus and some other cities, not something I'd choose to do personally though.
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Dec 29, 2012 15:54
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Pieter posted:Isn't it weird for a passenger plane to be flying over Syria at the moment? Very weird, especially in that area. Why would a civilian plane be over the middle of Idleb? EDIT: What Brown Moses said explains it all.
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Dec 29, 2012 16:01
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The-Mole posted:No. They're describing a cholinergic deleriant, not a tryptamine/serotonergic psychedelic. This is what it sounds like to me as well. For some reason, the smoking imaginary cigarettes thing is a hallmark of anticholinergics. It's not hallucinating, it's delerium.
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Dec 29, 2012 16:14
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Muffiner posted:The person giving orders from the background says it is a 'travel' plane at around 1:28, the guys on the gun argue wether or not it is a military or travel (civilian) plane with each other. Is this perhaps that plane that keeps making regular trips to Russia? There's something suspicious about that one.
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Dec 29, 2012 17:09
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Xandu posted:Only sort of relevant, but fascinating article in the New Yorker that goes into details on BZ. The best drug plan was the gay bomb idea from the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb http://www.sunshine-project.org/incapacitants/jnlwdpdf/wpafbchem.pdf
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Dec 29, 2012 17:23
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Muffiner posted:Business Insider has a report from the Syrian American Medical Society that agent 15 (also known as BZ) was probably used by the regime, confirmation needs lab analysis. Pro-SAA dude nutsflipped claims it was probably poisonous mushroom ingestion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8_DYhxH_UA
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Dec 29, 2012 17:39
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gobertech posted:Pro-SAA dude nutsflipped claims it was probably poisonous mushroom ingestion. Poisonous mushroom ingestion is generally followed by liver and/or kidney failure, with a high probability of death.
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Dec 29, 2012 17:41
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wheez the roux posted:Poisonous mushroom ingestion is generally followed by liver and/or kidney failure, with a high probability of death. There have been deaths which lead people to believe that it was probably not agent 15. Edit:http://rt.com/politics/chemical-weapon-syria-provocation-911/ quote:Meanwhile, the Syrian opposition claims the government troops did use chemical warfare in an attack on the city of Homs on Sunday, killing seven people and injuring dozens more with poison gas. quote:Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said the use of chemical weapons “would be a political suicide” for Assad regime. Passive Aggreeable fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Dec 29, 2012 |
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Dec 29, 2012 17:44
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Paul MaudDib posted:Is this perhaps that plane that keeps making regular trips to Russia? There's something suspicious about that one. Suspicious or not, they've been carrying paying civilian passengers* so the FSA shooting one down would not be a Good Thing. * IE foreigners and Syrians fleeing the fighting
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Dec 29, 2012 18:13
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Looks like there might have been another massacre carried out by the SAA after they won a battle in Deir Balbah. CNN is saying possibly 200 executed: http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/29/world/meast/syria-civil-war/index.html?hpt=hp_t3 If this is true, it makes you wonder what the international reaction would be if the Syrian regime executed something like 1000 people in a single town. Thats getting into chemical weapon casualty numbers, but as long as they did it with old fashioned bullets to the head you can bet the international community would just condemn it like they always do and nothing more.
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Dec 30, 2012 05:04
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I know I've sort of asked this before but is the act of continuously chanting 'allahu akbar' something untrained combatants do or do trained Islamic soldiers do it as well? I just feel like whenever someone starts chanting it they are beginning to lose their cool and that kind of thing would be frowned upon in a formal army even if its an Islamic one.
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Dec 30, 2012 06:50
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gobertech posted:There have been deaths which lead people to believe that it was probably not agent 15. Does BZ degenerate into something that is toxic? Otherwise it's not real far fetched that a hallucinogen used in a mass-manner could cause death either to weak/ill people or people engaging in dangerous activities while under it's influence. Edit: whoops quoted wrong person.
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Dec 30, 2012 07:07
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Shaocaholica posted:I know I've sort of asked this before but is the act of continuously chanting 'allahu akbar' something untrained combatants do or do trained Islamic soldiers do it as well? I just feel like whenever someone starts chanting it they are beginning to lose their cool and that kind of thing would be frowned upon in a formal army even if its an Islamic one. Watch any video of guys from "professional" Western militaries like the U.S. or U.K. or Canada or whoever getting hit with an IED or calling in a danger close fire mission...plenty of "HOLY poo poo HOLY poo poo HOLY poo poo HOLY poo poo" or "OH gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress" after the IED goes off/when the fire mission impacts, or even more restrained stuff like "oh man...this is gonna be loving awesome, holy poo poo" before the fire mission arrives. Allahu Akbar is just their culture's way of expressing similar emotions, both with the excited guys shouting it when they're firing an RPG or bombs are going off or whatever and with the guys doing it lower key before they fire a missile or whatever.
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Dec 30, 2012 07:10
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iyaayas01 posted:Watch any video of guys from "professional" Western militaries like the U.S. or U.K. or Canada or whoever getting hit with an IED or calling in a danger close fire mission...plenty of "HOLY poo poo HOLY poo poo HOLY poo poo HOLY poo poo" or "OH gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress" after the IED goes off/when the fire mission impacts, or even more restrained stuff like "oh man...this is gonna be loving awesome, holy poo poo" before the fire mission arrives. Well I wasn't really trying to compare it to the west. I'm more curious if the more 'professionally' trained troops like those from heavily militarized middle eastern countries do the same thing. E: then again, I guess we'll never know since the organized militaries of the Middle East tend not to film themselves in combat and post that footage online. Shaocaholica fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Dec 30, 2012 |
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Dec 30, 2012 07:40
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Wowquote:Rachid Ghannouchi, the leader of Tunisia's ruling Islamist Ennahda party, has said the punishment of flogging should be introduced against people who are charged of slander, in reference to a female blogger who published documents accusing his son-in-law of corruption and of extramarital affair. http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/12/30/257709.html And Egypt's economy is hosed because the central bank has no money. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/29/us-egypt-currency-idUSBRE8BS09620121229 quote:Egypt's central bank said it would start foreign currency auctions on Sunday to conserve reserves that have fallen to a critical level, pointing to a deepening economic crisis as President Mohamed Mursi tries to calm political turmoil.
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Dec 30, 2012 07:47
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Can't wait to see Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood claw their way out of this one. Good thing they rammed that constitution through, though! 
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Dec 30, 2012 08:21
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Shaocaholica posted:Well I wasn't really trying to compare it to the west. I'm more curious if the more 'professionally' trained troops like those from heavily militarized middle eastern countries do the same thing. Ive seen quite a few videos shot by the Syrian regimes military. Its actually not as rare as you think. Especially if you search for Anna news on youtube. I think they are a Russian news station that is embedded with the Syrian military. Anyway, of all the vids Ive seen of the Syrian army, I cant think of one time I heard them yelling Allah Ackbar. Im not sure why this is. Possibly they are more secular? Or because supposedly they are predominantly Alawite and therefore maybe not as Orthodox as Sunnis. And that is probably very incorrect, but my knowledge is quite limited.
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Dec 30, 2012 08:23
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The problem is, they really need a loan. But the IMF loan won't go through for months. More cash from other foreign countries will come in, but it probably won't be a huge amount. And they spend a shitload of money on various subsidies, and Morsi doesn't feel popular enough to cut them or raise any taxes, or even have a conversation about it.
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Dec 30, 2012 08:24
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Crasscrab posted:Can't wait to see Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood claw their way out of this one. Good thing they rammed that constitution through, though! Yea because I'm sure Morsi cutting the budget would have gone great, I mean he has such a friendly environment to work with and all, they'll understand the need to cut the bloat from the budget and not paint him as a monster right?
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Dec 30, 2012 08:28
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Charliegrs posted:Ive seen quite a few videos shot by the Syrian regimes military. Its actually not as rare as you think. Especially if you search for Anna news on youtube. I think they are a Russian news station that is embedded with the Syrian military. Anyway, of all the vids Ive seen of the Syrian army, I cant think of one time I heard them yelling Allah Ackbar. Im not sure why this is. Possibly they are more secular? Or because supposedly they are predominantly Alawite and therefore maybe not as Orthodox as Sunnis. And that is probably very incorrect, but my knowledge is quite limited. Screaming 'Allah Ackbar' in the Syrian military has been severely discouraged for the last 30 or so years. Discouraged ranging from getting dirty looks when you do it all the way up to execution if it was in the early 80s and your officer was feeling bad on that day. The Syrian military has been vehemently anti-religious, to the point that soldiers wouldn't dare pray or fast during Ramadan. The institution as a whole is still anti-religious and (rightfully) seen as a house of debauchery and corruption by many, but the anti-religiousness has subsided to just trying to coerce conscripts into drinking alcohol during Rammadan, and beating them up or throwing them in jail if they refuse. This isn't because the sentiment isn't there any more, but because Religious Sunnis and conservatives avoid going into the military like its the plague. That is the source of a dynamic in the conflict that hasn't been covered as much as the others in news and media.
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Dec 30, 2012 08:51
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Out of curiosity, what's your background on Syria?
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Dec 30, 2012 08:52
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Muffiner posted:Screaming 'Allah Ackbar' in the Syrian military has been severely discouraged for the last 30 or so years. Discouraged ranging from getting dirty looks when you do it all the way up to execution if it was in the early 80s and your officer was feeling bad on that day. The Syrian military has been vehemently anti-religious, to the point that soldiers wouldn't dare pray or fast during Ramadan. The institution as a whole is still anti-religious and (rightfully) seen as a house of debauchery and corruption by many, but the anti-religiousness has subsided to just trying to coerce conscripts into drinking alcohol during Rammadan, and beating them up or throwing them in jail if they refuse. This isn't because the sentiment isn't there any more, but because Religious Sunnis and conservatives avoid going into the military like its the plague. That is the source of a dynamic in the conflict that hasn't been covered as much as the others in news and media. Thats some interesting insight. But it makes sense. I can imagine the Assad regimes, like most other middle eastern dictators, have considered radical Islam to be one of the biggest threats to their power. (A good example being the Syrian military crushing the Muslim brotherhood in Hama in 82) And Im sure they have gone to great lengths to keep that kind of thinking out of the military. So are Alawites in general a bit more liberal and less religious than the Sunnis in Syria? Or am I just totally ignorant?
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Dec 30, 2012 09:35
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Charliegrs posted:Thats some interesting insight. But it makes sense. I can imagine the Assad regimes, like most other middle eastern dictators, have considered radical Islam to be one of the biggest threats to their power. (A good example being the Syrian military crushing the Muslim brotherhood in Hama in 82) And Im sure they have gone to great lengths to keep that kind of thinking out of the military. Even radical Islamic governments consider radical Islam to be a threat to power. There's always a different sect or movement to disagree with and by definition the most radical elements are not going to be good buddies with anyone else.
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Dec 30, 2012 10:08
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Warbadger posted:Even radical Islamic governments consider radical Islam to be a threat to power. There's always a different sect or movement to disagree with and by definition the most radical elements are not going to be good buddies with anyone else. Please, tell me more about how the Syrian Ba'aathist government is a "radical Islamic" government. 
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Dec 30, 2012 10:18
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BIG HORNY COW posted:That's basically what it is. If this actually happened there's a question of whether they got it from Iraq or if it was made in-house Even worse than weaponized LSD, it's weaponized Benadryl/Datura plant. Which is way, way worse than weaponized LSD.
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Dec 30, 2012 10:23
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Crasscrab posted:Please, tell me more about how the Syrian Ba'aathist government is a "radical Islamic" government. I don't think that's what Warbadger was saying at all.
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Dec 30, 2012 10:53
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Crasscrab posted:Please, tell me more about how the Syrian Ba'aathist government is a "radical Islamic" government. I think he was referring to governments like in Saudi Arabia, and Iran. Those are Islamic governments, but yet both do see radical Islam as a threat. Especially Saudi Arabia. Why do you think there used to be so many Al Quaeda attacks in Saudi Arabia and there was such a crackdown on them?
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Dec 30, 2012 10:55
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Charliegrs posted:Thats some interesting insight. But it makes sense. I can imagine the Assad regimes, like most other middle eastern dictators, have considered radical Islam to be one of the biggest threats to their power. (A good example being the Syrian military crushing the Muslim brotherhood in Hama in 82) And Im sure they have gone to great lengths to keep that kind of thinking out of the military. The purging of Alewite Religious leadership and the Muslim Brotherhood uprising probably played a large role in the 'liberalization' of Alewites, although the religiosity of the community before 1979 is not something I know much of.
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Dec 30, 2012 10:55
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Muffiner posted:Screaming 'Allah Ackbar' in the Syrian military has been severely discouraged for the last 30 or so years. Discouraged ranging from getting dirty looks when you do it all the way up to execution if it was in the early 80s and your officer was feeling bad on that day. The Syrian military has been vehemently anti-religious, to the point that soldiers wouldn't dare pray or fast during Ramadan. The institution as a whole is still anti-religious and (rightfully) seen as a house of debauchery and corruption by many, but the anti-religiousness has subsided to just trying to coerce conscripts into drinking alcohol during Rammadan, and beating them up or throwing them in jail if they refuse. This isn't because the sentiment isn't there any more, but because Religious Sunnis and conservatives avoid going into the military like its the plague. That is the source of a dynamic in the conflict that hasn't been covered as much as the others in news and media. Thats interesting to know but I would have thought it would have more to do with 'pay attention to whats going on'. I wonder what would pass, for instance, in Iran's more elite ranks.
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Dec 30, 2012 11:06
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Muffiner posted:I can't say with 100% certainty but yes, they consider themselves and are considered as more liberal than the rest of the population. Historically, a lack of 'depth' in Alewite ideology might have played a part (no idea if it did or didn't), but the Assad clan's absolute annihilation of any sort of Alewite leadership outside of their umbrella probably plays a large part in that too. See, one of the worse things Assad's father did is hollow out the Alewite community. This started with the imprisonment of Salah Jadeed after he gained power, and culminated in the 79-81 period when he realized how much social currency the Alewite Sheikhs still had, and went after them too. With the loss of traditional religious leaders, the sidelining of the intellectuals and the removal of all non-Assad political leadership the Alewite community lost much of its essence and all of the progress it had made since the Ottomans left the country. There wasn't anything the Alewites did that wasn't related to the regime, and their identity was reforged as one with the regime. You seem to really know your stuff. So in your opinion, what do you think will happen to the Alawites should Assad end up being toppled? The general consensus seems to be that its going to open season on the Alawites by the predominantly Sunni rebels.
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Dec 30, 2012 11:10
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Charliegrs posted:You seem to really know your stuff. So in your opinion, what do you think will happen to the Alawites should Assad end up being toppled? The general consensus seems to be that its going to open season on the Alawites by the predominantly Sunni rebels. Not to say that the Alewites can't defend themselves and that the people who are going to commit genocide will be JAN, or that we will see an 'orthodox' genocide happening at all. Most of the places where massacres have happened are at the Alewite-Sunni fault-line area, between Homs, Aleppo and the coast. Some Sunnis who have lost all their families in these areas would find it hard to not drive a carbomb into the middle of an Alewite village when they get the chance to do so.
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Dec 30, 2012 14:39
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Shaocaholica posted:Thats interesting to know but I would have thought it would have more to do with 'pay attention to whats going on'. I wonder what would pass, for instance, in Iran's more elite ranks. "Allahu ackbar" is one of dozens of commonly repeated formulae used by Muslims in an extremely wide variety of contexts and has absolutely nothing to do with the extent to which someone is paying attention to what they're doing or not. Pious Muslims will often repeat (silently or otherwise) formulae or other words of dhikr (remembrance of God) while working or doing pretty much any type of task- that doesn't mean their minds are elsewhere.
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Dec 30, 2012 15:22
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Even as secular westerners we refer to God and by extension Jesus Christ all the time without even thinking about it. Sayings like 'oh my god' 'oh god' 'god drat' 'for god's sake', the list goes on. Just listen to people in every day conversation, you would be surprised. Allah Akbar is essentially the same thing.
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Dec 30, 2012 17:03
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