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For #1: If indeed the referee is a goalpost with a whistle, I would make the same call as I would should the player have boosted himself up by hanging on a goalpost: a caution for unsporting behaviour and an indirect free kick positioned according to Law 13. The law doesn't require a foul for DOGSO, only an offense which results in a free kick, but I'm not convinced a 50/50 ball floated into a crowded penalty area constitutes an obvious goal-scoring opportunity. Either way a penalty is right out as there has been no foul committed, only misconduct. 2 - punch him in the face 3 - punch him and Berbatov in the face edit: quoting picture for new page
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Jan 4, 2013 20:23
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Bio-Hazard posted:2) I wouldn't do anything about it, except to note it in the match report. The decision is not up to you, it's up to the referee organization or the FA. Besides, if you switch out your AR then you're essentially admitting that you (the one with the whistle) have been agreeing with the AR since the AR doesn't blow the whistle for fouls, you do. Referees can wave down AR flags. And, he'll get the other team in the 2nd half so the damage is already done. Of course you're agreeing with the AR if you (presumably) awarded two penalties that the AR flagged for. There's nothing wrong with agreeing with your AR, but that's only if you're oblivious to the AR's club preference. Keeping the AR out there after what you learned can only end badly because then you'll start second guessing his judgment and that's no good for the game at hand.
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Jan 5, 2013 00:06
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Referees are professionals, right? I think it's a bit childish to think that a referee who has a tattoo of a club won't play the game fairly. I'm a teacher, do you think I'm not allowed to grade the kids I don't like? I do, and I do it well because I'm a professional, just like that referee. You might make a note about it in the match report, but even that seems silly to me.
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Jan 5, 2013 00:11
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It's the appearance of impropriety. He can call the game as evenly as he likes, if that tattoo ended up on camera, can you imagine the shitstorm for you, the league, the referees' organization, the FA, etc.? He has to be removed.
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Jan 5, 2013 00:36
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In the Premier League refs that openly support a club don't get to ref for them. Sure you can trust them to be professionals but it's another thing how the public sees it.
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Jan 5, 2013 07:09
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oliwan posted:Referees are professionals, right? I think it's a bit childish to think that a referee who has a tattoo of a club won't play the game fairly. I'm a teacher, do you think I'm not allowed to grade the kids I don't like? I do, and I do it well because I'm a professional, just like that referee. You might make a note about it in the match report, but even that seems silly to me. How would your employer react if you had a tattoo which said "Johnny in 5B is a little poo poo"
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Jan 5, 2013 13:04
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Better than a tattoo proclaiming your love for Johnny in 5B.
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Jan 5, 2013 13:35
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Maybe the FA said to him "we'll let it slide as long as you cover it up" and you don't know about the circumstances. Maybe he has every club's crest somewhere on his body. Maybe he lost a bet and the tattoo is actually his club's biggest rivals? I'd advise him to cover it up and maybe use that as a conversation starter to ask him how much he wants to remain in the game, or if he should remove himself. Then report it to the FA no matter what.
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Jan 6, 2013 10:44
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Bio-Hazard posted:Maybe he lost a bet and the tattoo is actually his club's biggest rivals? He wouldn't be officiating that game if this was true.
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Jan 6, 2013 20:16
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Homura posted:He wouldn't be officiating that game if this was true. The point stands though--it could be his best friend's favourite team, and he lost a bet, or something along those lines. Without inside knowledge you should probably just trust that the FA have sorted it out beforehand, since they already take steps to prevent bias. If you feel his decision-making has been compromised because of the dodgy penalties, then replace him with the fourth official, but clearly you agreed with him at least in part on those since you're the one that actually gives them, not him. Without more information I would just put a detailed account of everything in your match report and leave it up to the FA to take action. It may turn out he just has very sharp eyes and made a bad tattoo decision earlier in life, and video evidence will back up the penalties; or it may turn out he was biased, and never referees again. Either way you can't really know.
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Jan 6, 2013 20:31
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The tattoo thing I think is actually a vaguely realistic situation on the parks or on the semi-pro pyramid somewhere when you might have an ex-player who got really drunk with his teammates that one time, but I'm thoroughly expecting Hackett to say "lol no" in the answer.
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Jan 6, 2013 21:36
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Hackett:quote:1) If the keeper had only made contact because you were in his way then you would allow play to continue – but as he has used you to gain an unfair advantage, show him a yellow card for unsporting behaviour and restart with an indirect free-kick from a point on the six-yard line parallel to the goalline that is nearest to the offence. It cannot be a penalty as the offence was not committed against an opponent. You also need to rethink your positioning and viewing angles: you were too close to play.
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Jan 7, 2013 08:43
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What, Hackett with sensible and reasonable decisions? Clearly the Apocalypse was merely slightly misscheduled.
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Jan 7, 2013 10:16
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 1) Two yellows, off he goes. (pretty sure there's precedent for this one in a game a few years ago where someone scored, kicked the corner flag and made a gesture to the crowd, and got separate yellows for the flag and the gesture) 2) He's still offside, so no goal. Indirect free-kick for obstruction by the defender though. 3) Tell him to get rid of the phone as it's not part of his approved equipment.
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Jan 11, 2013 08:43
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1. Give a direct FK (or penalty) to the attacking team and book the defender for each offence separately, so send him off. 2. Disallow the goal, book the defender and award a penalty. 3. If he touches it again, book him for having equipment he's not meant to or if he's trying to be a sly bugger and leaves the field to check it, book him for leaving the field without permission.
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Jan 11, 2013 10:19
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The first one could be a straight red, depending on where the handball took place. If there's been advantage played, there's a good chance his deliberate handball is preventing a goalscoring opportunity, so I think that's what they're getting at. For the third, I think the key thing is that it's behind the goalline, right?
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Jan 11, 2013 11:16
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He could conceivably have it close enough to the goal line that he could reach over and pick it up without entirely being off the field of play, if that's what you're getting at.
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Jan 11, 2013 19:44
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Yeah, I think that's what the question is getting at, right? That he's not brought it onto the field, but doesn't have to leave it to look at it. Similar to when someone (Lindegaard?) had an ipod with videos of opposition players taking penalties that he was watching before the shootout.
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Jan 11, 2013 20:08
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1. Two yellows and a red, being sure to call over the player and captain so he does not freak out as to why two yellows were given so quickly. 2. I retroactively play advantage to the attacking team, and thus allow the goal. I present a yellow to the defender. Ideally, I would have stopped play and red carded the defender for DOGSO, but play continued on before I could. Write this down for sure, explaining it all so you don't get fired. 3. Stop play, tell him it's a communication device like a headset and he can't use it. Give it to the fourth official to be returned later. If he fights you, give him a yellow. e: I really like question 2, I think it's going to be really informative to learn the answer.
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Jan 11, 2013 22:13
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Can you really issue two yellow cards consecutively? The player doesn't know he's already on a yellow card when he commits that second offence. Seems a bit unfair at least.
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Jan 11, 2013 22:19
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1. Two cautions -> Red 2. The wording is a little dumb. I read it as he's offside when the ball is kicked and is now trying to get back onside. The defender is not gaining any advantage by blocking the attacker, flag/blow the offside. 3. I would love to see him manipulate a cell phone with keeper gloves. Award him a goal for his efforts.
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Jan 11, 2013 23:35
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3. I'd ask him what network he's on because gently caress me if I can ever get a data signal at half time at Loftus Road.
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Jan 11, 2013 23:46
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1: If the handball was in the box then it's a straight red. If not then it's a second yellow. (Hackett will come up with some bollocks to justify only a single yellow though.) 2: Is offside, no goal. Yellow card the defender and award a penalty. If you want to be a real dick, award a straight red for DOGSO, although that would require obstruction of the attacker with a clear goalscoring opportunity, whereas the way I read it the defender obstructed the attacker before there was a clear goalscoring opportunity. 3: How the hell is he working a cellphone with goalie gloves? Anyway, take it off him and give it to the fourth official. Yellow card him if he argues.
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Jan 12, 2013 04:32
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Mickolution posted:Yeah, I think that's what the question is getting at, right? That he's not brought it onto the field, but doesn't have to leave it to look at it. Similar to when someone (Lindegaard?) had an ipod with videos of opposition players taking penalties that he was watching before the shootout. I think this was Ben Foster and the League Cup final against Spurs a couple years ago. I don't remember any fuss about it back then, so maybe #3 is on the level.
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Jan 12, 2013 06:00
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Yeah, I think you're right. I knew it was a United keeper, but not Van Der Saar. The difference between the two situations though, is I think he was doing it before the shootout, so the game wasn't on at the time, so who knows.
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Jan 12, 2013 13:23
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It was foster and was after the 2 extra time periods but before the shootout started. The gk coach had videos of the other teams PK kickers
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Jan 12, 2013 15:19
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I've just caught up on the last two weeks. Do we know any ref that has a declared allegiance to a team? And how far does it stretch - is it only reffing that team, or does it include rivals, potential relegation clashes etc. as well?
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Jan 12, 2013 18:11
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Keith Hackett's verdict 1) The defender has committed two cautionable offences: the fact that you played advantage does not change that. Stop play, show him two yellow cards and then a red. If possible in this situation, though, you should try to warn the defender he will be cautioned after you have played advantage: that might have made him think twice about committing the second offence. Preventative refereeing is always a good policy. Thanks to Stephen McAteer. 2) No goal. As always, punish the first offence. The defender has not physically manhandled the forward into an offside position: the forward was already in an offside position before the defender blocked him. So declare him offside when he plays the ball, immediately speak to both players to calm the situation – again, trying to prevent trouble – and restart with an indirect free-kick. Christopher Vaughan wins the shirt. 3) At the next stoppage, deal with this as unsporting behaviour and caution (book) the keeper. Electronic communication between coaches and players is banned and I would deal with this as a breach of those regulations. Arrange for the mobile phone to be removed. Thanks to Chris Deeley.
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Jan 14, 2013 15:10
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Dollas posted:2) No goal. As always, punish the first offence. The defender has not physically manhandled the forward into an offside position: the forward was already in an offside position before the defender blocked him. So declare him offside when he plays the ball, immediately speak to both players to calm the situation – again, trying to prevent trouble – and restart with an indirect free-kick. Christopher Vaughan wins the shirt.
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Jan 14, 2013 15:51
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Tunga posted:I didn't really interpret this one the way that he has, I thought it meant that the striker was holding him before the ball was played forward. In which case the first offense would be the foul, not the offisde. Since the question wasn't clear, punch Keith Hackett in the face and put it your match report. No the question is perfectly clear and you just have bad reading comprehension, it was the defender doing the holding and it says nothing about the obstruction taking place before the ball was played.
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Jan 14, 2013 16:43
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Dollas posted:Keith Hackett's verdict
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Jan 14, 2013 21:42
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Vegetable posted:I have never seen a ref do this before and it's just silly theoretical bullshit. I don't think it's really something you'd see. If there's a long passage of play between the foul and the next stoppage the ref might say "You'll be booked in a minute, calm down" or something. I'm sure there's lots of things refs tell players that we never pick up on in the stands/on tv.
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Jan 14, 2013 21:56
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Vegetable posted:I have never seen a ref do this before and it's just silly theoretical bullshit. It's all verbal. When I play advantage for a cautionable offence I call "Play on advantage; coming back for him!" Something like that. I do it more so that the attacking team won't get tempted to go and kick him back because they don't think I'm going to do anything about the foul.
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Jan 15, 2013 14:24
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Vegetable posted:I have never seen a ref do this before and it's just silly theoretical bullshit. A lot of times I'll say "I saw it, I'll get it!" to players who protest in the moment, or I'll tell a player he's booked while the play is still running if he's not involved anymore. Verbal communication or player/ref banter on the pitch isn't really seen by the cameras, which is too bad... It's definitely part of the game. EvilHawk posted:I'm sure there's lots of things refs tell players that we never pick up on in the stands/on tv. MLS: Mic up the refs. (BAD IDEA)
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Jan 16, 2013 00:14
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Bio-Hazard posted:MLS: Mic up the refs. (BAD IDEA) There's a German documentary that did this with some of the refs from one of the UEFA Championships. Seemed interesting.
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Jan 16, 2013 00:22
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I eat my words  But I still don't think it's usually a feasible thing for refs to do. If there's an advantage, play is usually going on quite frantically and it seems to me that a ref might miss a thing or two if he's going to spend time warning a player.
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Jan 16, 2013 01:32
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foobardog posted:There's a German documentary that did this with some of the refs from one of the UEFA Championships. Seemed interesting.
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Jan 16, 2013 09:06
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Ref mics are standard in other sports, so I'm quite curious as to why it's a bad idea.
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Jan 16, 2013 10:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aoIy89mSk8 This is a pretty good documentary about what actually goes on as far as on-pitch communication between refs and players are concerned. Takes place in Spain, so subtitles.
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Jan 16, 2013 13:16
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Baggins posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aoIy89mSk8 Very interesting, thanks!
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Jan 16, 2013 14:05
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