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Yeah, with a GPA like that if you aren't pulling a 168 or 169 I imagine admissions will start wondering about where you went and whether there's grade inflation at your undergrad.
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Jan 3, 2013 08:03
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Arcturas posted:Yeah, with a GPA like that if you aren't pulling a 168 or 169 I imagine admissions will start wondering about where you went and whether there's grade inflation at your undergrad. I don't think that's true. They just won't think his LSAT is high enough at T14s, or won't think his index (LSAT and GPA combined) is high enough. 163 is still close to the 90th percentile (about 88th percentile usually), so I don't think one guy getting it with a 3.7 is going to make an admissions office at a law school reevaluate whatever their existing opinion is of an undergrad. Not to mention that admissions offices don't even care whether your school has grade inflation.
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Jan 3, 2013 08:22
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Even a score just four points higher gives him a shot at the lower T-14 (and schools like USC): http://mylsn.info/8id5o9
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Jan 3, 2013 08:36
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MoFauxHawk posted:I don't think that's true. They just won't think his LSAT is high enough at T14s, or won't think his index (LSAT and GPA combined) is high enough. 163 is still close to the 90th percentile (about 88th percentile usually), so I don't think one guy getting it with a 3.7 is going to make an admissions office at a law school reevaluate whatever their existing opinion is of an undergrad. Not to mention that admissions offices don't even care whether your school has grade inflation. Fair enough. I didn't realize a 163 is 90th percentile on the LSAT. I thought that was more 165-166.
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Jan 3, 2013 17:10
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I can't speak for anywhere else but Duke does not care at all about where you went to undergrad, only that you got a nice fat fancy number to report.
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Jan 3, 2013 17:10
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Let me just throw this out there: unless his name is Ganesh (and even if it is), he can legitimately check the 'Other' box on the apps and put down West Indian. That and five points gets him Harvard, no?
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Jan 3, 2013 17:20
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Anyone at Harvard know anything about Prof. Rachel Brewster?
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Jan 3, 2013 17:59
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Sulecrist posted:I can't speak for anywhere else but Duke does not care at all about where you went to undergrad, only that you got a nice fat fancy number to report. Yeah, I thought the whole idea was to take an easy major at a uni that gives high grades, then study a little for the LSAT and go into cruise control until you graduate from Yail.
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Jan 3, 2013 18:56
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By Indian you ~don't~ mean Native American right? The URM boost is controlled on they're end, and you can put that down on the application but i don't think you'd get the boost.
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Jan 3, 2013 19:15
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Adar posted:Let me just throw this out there: unless his name is Ganesh (and even if it is), he can legitimately check the 'Other' box on the apps and put down West Indian. Most admissions officers, in most situations, would probably consider that ethnic fraud if it were discovered or inferred. A much safer approach is what he himself suggested: indicate Indian as his ethnicity and use his diversity statement to describe his cultural background. The admissions office could at that point recategorize his ethnicity if they really wanted (which they could also do away from West Indian in your scenario if they found it unconvincing), or they could just make a decision. Nickoten, you should put down Indian as your ethnicity because it is what you identify as. Use the diversity statement to describe your cultural background. You do not need to be defensive or explanatory. Just tell your story: I was born and raised in Trinidad, I've grown up doing [things Trinidadians do], etc etc. It is a riskless move and has the added benefit of not being a lie.
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Jan 3, 2013 19:43
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Petey posted:Most admissions officers, in most situations, would probably consider that ethnic fraud if it were discovered or inferred. A much safer approach is what he himself suggested: indicate Indian as his ethnicity and use his diversity statement to describe his cultural background. The admissions office could at that point recategorize his ethnicity if they really wanted (which they could also do away from West Indian in your scenario if they found it unconvincing), or they could just make a decision. That's a real thing with dual identities now? So the white Algerian population is screwed nowadays? Heh. Sounds like he's a special enough snowflake to blanket every T14 regardless and hope somebody bites, but I'd still go for a 170 first.
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Jan 3, 2013 19:49
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With a 3.7, and many schools accepting your best LSAT, it's moronic to apply with that low an LSAT. If you boost it (and you probably can) you've got a much better shot.
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Jan 3, 2013 20:26
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Holy hell, I didn't expect to still be getting advice. Thanks guys! My name is pretty ambiguous (Anglo-Saxon first name, last name is not actually a real last name due to circumstances of family's immigration to Trinidad), but you're right that I'd rather not lie. I don't strongly identify myself as Indian but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't strongly aware of myself as being racially Indian, so I feel like doing otherwise could be considered fraud. It sounds like it'd be a good idea to re-take the LSAT, but I doubt they'd look at the February score, especially since it'd be reported in March. Is it a good idea to apply this year and try again next year if I don't get accepted to a good school? That link someone provided that gave percentage chances based on existing data was really useful, by the way. It sounds like I have a slight chance with Georgetown and a pretty good chance with USC, which are both seemingly good schools in areas I'd want to practice law (assuming I did go down that road). I can definitely see the advantage in aiming for that 170 and trying again next year, but it seems like a good idea to try twice. I'm just not sure if a rejection looks bad on a second try. Nickoten fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jan 3, 2013 |
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Jan 3, 2013 20:47
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I'd say it depends on what you actually want to do as a job. If you want to be a lawyer as a day-to-day profession, then go hog wild. But if you want to work in international business or be a businessman, then law ain't the right place to go. It's not like another merit badge that makes you more attractive to an employer. Instead you're slotted as a lawyer and looking for a position as a lawyer, with all that comes with it. I'm happy with my choice, as many are. But many of my classmates were very disappointed after working a year. In the end it's just a job, like dentist or accountant or whatever, except you spend 100k before doing much that resembles the job. With some work you could make it through law school just fine, but do you want to make it through? Maybe shadow some family friend lawyers or have lunch with some first. Spend time thinking about how you want to spend your working hours a decade from now.
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Jan 3, 2013 21:30
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Adar posted:That's a real thing with dual identities now? So the white Algerian population is screwed nowadays? Heh. Thankfully yes. There are still schools that will look the other way because they are so desperate for any numbers but the most selective schools do not have that problem and tend to react somewhat strongly against it. At least undergrad schools do, and I would imagine, from what (little) I know, that law admissions are the same, given that the fundamentals are similar. It's not so much "dual identities," really; there is a lot of deserved discussion for multiracial students who don't fit within a particular cultural construct. However, when someone says "I'm Indian, but culturally West Indian," that doesn't mean they don't fit within a cultural construct. It means their ethnicity differs from their culture, and so they should answer the ethnicity question one way and the cultural / diversity question the other way. Nickoten posted:My name is pretty ambiguous (Anglo-Saxon first name, last name is not actually a real last name due to circumstances of family's immigration to Trinidad), but you're right that I'd rather not lie. I don't strongly identify myself as Indian but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't strongly aware of myself as being racially Indian, so I feel like doing otherwise could be considered fraud. Trust your instinct and be honest. Again, in your statement you shouldn't be defensive, nor should you present yourself as enlightened, like you should win an award for it. Just be honest and straightforward about where you grew up and how it has shaped your worldview and you will get the most points for it. quote:
There's no reason not to do that but there's no particular reason to do it either. I've told this story before, but I had a 3.7 with a 166 when I applied in December 2008. I got blanked at the T14 and accepted with a full ride to Cardozo which I declined. I got a 173 in February 2009 and the next fall got tons of mail from T14 schools with fee waivers encouraging me to apply. The point being that your GPA is pretty good and with a better score you could be an excellent candidate at a lot of schools. There's no reason to rush it if you think you can improve your score, and actually no reason to rush it now. Law schools are rolling admission so you are already at a disadvantage by applying so late in the game. Unless you absolutely *must* go to law school, any law school, this fall, then your best shot for your life and career* is to improve your LSAT and apply as soon as you can next fall. * the actual best shot it to not go to law school but I assume we are operating within those parameters
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Jan 3, 2013 21:48
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Petey posted:Most admissions officers, in most situations, would probably consider that ethnic fraud if it were discovered or inferred. A much safer approach is what he himself suggested: indicate Indian as his ethnicity and use his diversity statement to describe his cultural background. The admissions office could at that point recategorize his ethnicity if they really wanted (which they could also do away from West Indian in your scenario if they found it unconvincing), or they could just make a decision. Ethnic fraud??? My law school had rich, white "African Americans" from South Africa and a whole slew of other rich minorities that checked all the boxes depending on what race they could claim through their parents, grand parents, or great-grandparents. The only ethnicity that seemed to be protected from fraud was Native American since you had to comment on your actual tribal registration number. I can't help but laugh at the thought of a university confronting someone on their ethnic identity. Are they going to demand genetic testing once he gets his scholarship after declaring he is West Indian? Nickoten: If you identify with West Indians then check that box on your application and put it in your diversity statement. That option is there to help ease the insane cost of law school so take advantage of it.
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Jan 4, 2013 00:40
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UnpaidIntern posted:Ethnic fraud??? My law school had rich, white "African Americans" from South Africa and a whole slew of other rich minorities that checked all the boxes depending on what race they could claim through their parents, grand parents, or great-grandparents. And presumably did not get caught which was the key part, and why your story is irrelevant to what he is saying.
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Jan 4, 2013 00:58
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Petey posted:Thankfully yes. There are still schools that will look the other way because they are so desperate for any numbers but the most selective schools do not have that problem and tend to react somewhat strongly against it. At least undergrad schools do, and I would imagine, from what (little) I know, that law admissions are the same, given that the fundamentals are similar. What do you mean by ethnicity? Isn't he racially Indian because of his biological ancestry (which gives a physical appearance), and then ethnically West Indian (or maybe Indian West Indian?) because in the bigger picture he has a certain mix of culture, language, social practices, background, etc? If you honestly identify yourself as a West Indian, and you have the background to support that claim, then you'd tick that box. I guess you could be really specific and discuss whether Indian West Indians are some sort of separate society in the West Indies, but also distinct from all the Indian Indian groups, so then you'd be Indian West Indian ethnicity, but I don't think there will be a box for that. Agesilaus fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Jan 4, 2013 |
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Jan 4, 2013 02:35
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Lol.quote:So what does all of this have to do with the retaliation I have alluded to, and why would the deans set me up to fail? Simple: Dean Pierce and Dean Poser did not want to injure the precious ego of this incompetent adjunct by acknowledging any of Sidders’s mistakes, and it was easier to solve the problems I had raised in my complaints by sabotaging my hopes and dreams. http://learnedfist.tumblr.com/post/30780819859/my-google-review-of-the-university-of-nebraska-college TLDR: paranoid law student convinced deans are out to get him because he asked for special accomodation during a test.
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Jan 4, 2013 06:52
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UnpaidIntern posted:Ethnic fraud??? My law school had rich, white "African Americans" from South Africa and a whole slew of other rich minorities that checked all the boxes depending on what race they could claim through their parents, grand parents, or great-grandparents. The only ethnicity that seemed to be protected from fraud was Native American since you had to comment on your actual tribal registration number. I can't help but laugh at the thought of a university confronting someone on their ethnic identity. Are they going to demand genetic testing once he gets his scholarship after declaring he is West Indian? Of course not. But it is far easier than you might think to discover or determine ethnic fraud. Not all is caught (as evilweasel pointed out), and some schools choose to look the other way in certain circumstances for certain reasons (which may operate in concert with other reasons you identify, such as individual wealth or other institutional priorities, which may outweigh the sin of the fraud depending on how important it is). However, it is definitely A Thing, and more specifically A Thing You Want To Avoid. If a school asks your ethnicity, and you put down something other than your ethnicity, well, you are committing what most selective schools will consider a kind of fraud on your application. Agesilaus posted:What do you mean by ethnicity? Isn't he racially Indian because of his biological ancestry (which gives a physical appearance), and then ethnically West Indian (or maybe Indian West Indian?) because in the bigger picture he has a certain mix of culture, language, social practices, background, etc? Not according to federal guidelines: IPEDS posted:The guidance issued by the Department covers two separate issues: (1) the collection of R/E data by institutions and (2) the reporting of aggregate data to the Department. For collecting R/E data, institutions must use a two-question format, and the Department encourages institutions to re-survey students and staff (the two-question format is as follows: The first question is whether the respondent is Hispanic/Latino. The second question is whether the respondent is from one or more races from the following list: American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, Black or African American, Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, White).  Now you may think that this seems bizarre and artificial and break down on specific, to which I would snark that yes, all racial/ethnic constructs are bizarre and artificial and break down on specifics. The point is, however, that Nickoten is, by federal guidelines made uncontroversial by his own stated identification, [South] Asian in his ethnicity. Certainly more so than any of these other categories: he is not Black (Caribbean), for example, and would be outright lying if he said he was. That is why he is not, as you say, ethnically West Indian because he is culturally West Indian, because the definitions of race and ethnicity set forth by the federal guidelines do not allow him to be. quote:
There is, actually. It's the diversity statement section, which was introduced specifically to allow (or force) students to articulate their own identities as constrained or constructed through the formal federal guidelines. Which is absolutely what Nickoten should do, what I am happy to hear he plans to do, and what is absolutely in his best interests as an applicant. Petey fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Jan 4, 2013 |
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Jan 4, 2013 06:55
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Pretty good acid test for whether you're going to be a good lawyer or not. Are you going to be hung up on some stupid technicality on whether you're sufficiently "ethnic", or just realize that you're at a disadvantage from go because you're not lily white and take whatever poo poo this stupid prejudiced world offers you just because
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Jan 4, 2013 07:57
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terrorist ambulance posted:Pretty good acid test for whether you're going to be a good lawyer or not. Are you going to be hung up on some stupid technicality on whether you're sufficiently "ethnic", or just realize that you're at a disadvantage from go because you're not lily white and take whatever poo poo this stupid prejudiced world offers you just because Well, if it hasn't been clear, he would have to check the box that says "black" or "Hispanic" rather than "Asian" to get whatever you think he's being offered. He can't just check a "West Indian" box and get a corresponding boost. It's also not about being "sufficiently 'ethnic'", it's about what his actual background is, so don't just skim his posts and assume it's a no-brainer and talk to him like he's being an idiot just because he's thinking about not checking "black" or "Hispanic".
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Jan 4, 2013 08:06
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Check asian, indian, or whatever box other than "white" because that's what the question is intended to capture. It really kinda is a no-brainer I mean I know it's intended to be complicated because resident wanna-be Petey has weighed in with a couple lengthy posts but there it is edit: which is more likely; admissions people walking around with a dipstick, checking it against your skin to see whether you sufficiently identify with your claimed ethnicity and punishing those who don't, or the school just being stoked they're +1 towards whatever metric they have to meet and laying out the diversity scholarships and bursaries accordingly without looking too hard at who they're being given to terrorist ambulance fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Jan 4, 2013 |
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Jan 4, 2013 08:09
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terrorist ambulance posted:Check asian, indian, or whatever box other than "white" because that's what the question is intended to capture. It really kinda is a no-brainer Right, he never planned to check "white". Petey is giving his advice as somebody who's worked in this area before about whether the guy should check "Asian", which puts you at pretty much the same place as whites, or if he should check one of the URM groups that would give him a boost. MoFauxHawk fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jan 4, 2013 |
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Jan 4, 2013 08:26
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terrorist ambulance posted:Check asian, indian, or whatever box other than "white" because that's what the question is intended to capture. It really kinda is a no-brainer I agree, so I don't know who you are arguing with, and I think it's pretty clear, as MoFauxHawk suggested, that you've just been skimming posts. quote:
Depends on the school. The more selective you get, the more selective the schools will be about how deeply they look into your bullshit. Admissions officers do have incentives to optimize their metrics but, especially at more selective schools, they also have incentives to make sure their decisions can at least be compelling defended, because your URM donors (the people who sponsor those diversity scholarships) and communities on campus (who support them) will have the feedback loop of seeing who is admitted off of them. The more kids receiving URM scholarships are "white Algerians" (as Adar put it) the more your constituents on campus would go nuts. They'd think you were at best incompetent and at worst an active partner in further suppressing actual diversity. So there's your counterincentive to just going +1, and it gets stronger the more selective and prestigious your school is, because those schools have more self-conscious and involved support communities. MoFauxHawk posted:Well, if it hasn't been clear, he would have to check the box that says "black" or "Hispanic" rather than "Asian" to get whatever you think he's being offered. He can't just check a "West Indian" box and get a corresponding boost. Right, and this is why it's "fraud." There isn't even a "West Indian" box he can check. Instead he would have to (mis)represent himself as Black or Hispanic (or American Indian with a tribal ID) under the federal reporting guidelines. Which is why he should instead indicate his ethnicity as Asian and use the diversity statement to talk about his cultural affiliation. I've more than said my piece at this point so I'll stop posting about this now. Good luck Nicketon (don't go to law school).
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Jan 4, 2013 15:02
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insanityv2 posted:Lol. That is a thing of beauty. He deserves to pass LRW on that post alone.
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Jan 4, 2013 18:16
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terrorist ambulance posted:admissions people walking around with a dipstick, checking it against your skin to see whether you sufficiently identify with your claimed ethnicity and punishing those who don't, It's a paper bag actually
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Jan 4, 2013 18:34
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Law Student posted:incidentally, the tooth infection which spread to my ear, throat, and entire FACE was proximately caused by a habit of bruxism I developed in March in response to a combination of the relentless pressure of essentially having to write two additional papers at the last minute while somehow staying caught up in my other four classes, and, second, in response to the policy of administrative harassment I began experiencing from Dean Pierce after I spoke up about the unfairness inherent in my moot court assignment Yes, but what about legal causation? (-15pts)
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Jan 4, 2013 18:38
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terrorist ambulance posted:Pretty good acid test for whether you're going to be a good lawyer or not. Are you going to be hung up on some stupid technicality on whether you're sufficiently "ethnic", or just realize that you're at a disadvantage from go because you're not lily white and take whatever poo poo this stupid prejudiced world offers you just because
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Jan 4, 2013 19:53
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xxEightxx posted:That is a thing of beauty. He deserves to pass LRW on that post alone. At first it just seems he is griping about a lovely professor and sounding kinda babyish but basically sane, but then he veers into full-on gangstalking territory: quote:During one of my finals, a large noisy group of my classmates suddenly congregated outside my test room only moments after the time I was allotted began, even though Dean Pierce had held a consistent presence in the hallways and common areas in order to quiet people during exam times. I was suspicious about the lack of supervision in the hallway where I took that exam, but when two screaming *unsupervised* young boys showed up outside my test room only minutes after my last final began, I knew this was a deliberate attempt to sabotage my GPA so I would be dismissed from the program under the guise of failing to meet the academic requirements in order to join my classmates in our 2L year.
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Jan 5, 2013 01:03
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Petey posted:Not according to federal guidelines: The link indicates that there are two questions; the first is about ethnicity and checks to see if you're hispanic, and the second asks your race. Nickoteen wouldn't be listed as specifically Asian ethnicity according to the guidelines you linked to, because there is no Asian ethnicity listed, there's only hispanic and non-hispanic. Rather, he would report himself as being of non-hispanic ethnicity and, without checking the definition (I assume Americans refer to Indians as Asian rather than Black, but that's not the rule everywhere), of Asian race. For me, I'd put non-hispanic white, but that's just odd to me; for all intents and purposes I didn't know "hispanic" was a category until some years ago, and white does not include a lot of groups that americans include under that umbrella, so it's rather confusing. At any rate, I hardly care about the guidelines for how universities should report their statistics to the government. My point is that you were using the word ethnicity as though it was homonymous with race, and treated culture and whatever else as separate from ethnicity which is just bizarre. Even if we pretend that the reporting guidelines between schools and the government were the supreme authority for discussions of what ethnic group a person belongs to, you're still mixing it up because the question about being black or asian or white or whatever is the racial half of the survey. Agesilaus fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Jan 5, 2013 |
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Jan 5, 2013 03:21
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quote:
I'm legit curious. Where did this "law school to do NGO foreign charity work" crap start? Did it use to be a common thing in the past or what?
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Jan 6, 2013 04:31
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A while ago someone posted a primer/benchbook type document authored by a Canadian judge addressing the various "sovereign citizen" claims/defenses/arguments/beliefs. I can't seem to search for the right thing to find it again. Does anyone remember what I am talking about and have a link to it?
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Jan 6, 2013 05:51
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Dallan Invictus posted:Dear neighbours to the south: Here it is.
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Jan 6, 2013 05:54
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awesome, thank you very much
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Jan 6, 2013 05:55
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insanityv2 posted:I'm legit curious. Where did this "law school to do NGO foreign charity work" crap start? A lot of people burn out of law and some do stuff like that. People who want to do this would be better in grad school for something useful or just using $100,000 to volunteer for a few years and build connections. A JD is no more valuable than and other degree in this field.
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Jan 6, 2013 06:15
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diospadre posted:Here it is. Page 41 has a typo. So the whole thing is null and void and I don't agree to that contract taking away my rights. Also I'm suing everyone in this thread for hoisting their Canadian law on my Sovereign American self. Edit: Oh my god here's a youtube link of a crazy talking about that case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMEw1AuLUfE BigHead fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Jan 6, 2013 |
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Jan 6, 2013 06:20
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BigHead posted:Page 41 has a typo. So the whole thing is null and void and I don't agree to that contract taking away my rights. Also I'm suing everyone in this thread for hoisting their Canadian law on my Sovereign American self. I think my favorite is the litigant who said that he became the judge when the actual judge left the room. Page 67.
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Jan 6, 2013 18:38
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Hi friends. Does the required passport style photo for the LSAT have to be printed on photo paper or is regular computer paper acceptable? Edit: Thanks woozle wuzzle. Yeah I probably should have just used Google instead of making this post. I'm dumb. Math Debater fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jan 6, 2013 |
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Jan 6, 2013 19:35
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Math Debater posted:Hi friends. Since I have access to loving google, I can tell you to use photo paper to be safe. GOOD LUCK IN LAW SCHOOL.................... (5th hit, this sentence was in the google display so I didn't even have to look at the others: "However, the administrator told Rose and other students with similar problems, that they could not take the test unless he had a photo with a completely blank background printed on photo paper.")
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Jan 6, 2013 19:40
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