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So, uh. If someone decides to clear out the Fort, would that mean that Legion deathsquads might stop spawning whenever I'm five steps out of a town?
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Jan 6, 2013 04:46
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That Old Ganon posted:So, uh. If someone decides to clear out the Fort, would that mean that Legion deathsquads might stop spawning whenever I'm five steps out of a town? Nope! Even if you clear the fort, you didn't really clear the fort, you just cleared the gatehouse and the inner sanctum, if you look out over the walls of the inner sanctum area, I believe you're able to see the legion camp stretching out for about a mile into the distance.
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Jan 6, 2013 04:50
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I only do it on Pro NCR runs, and only because I want Hanlon to get a happy ending. Does he get an ending slide in such a case?
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Jan 6, 2013 05:16
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Reveilled posted:I want my character to have CHIM from Morrowind. Somebody please draw me a picture of No-Bark and Ma'iq chilling around a campfire, shooting the poo poo about CHIM and calipers and commie ghosts. TIA
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Jan 6, 2013 05:20
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Reveilled posted:The only thing I don't like about clearing out the Fort is that doing so basically breaks the plausibility of other quests, like Honest Hearts. "Flee Zion" or "Help the Tribes fight back against the White Legs" comes across as a false dichotomy when I single handedly stormed a Roman fort and killed a self-professed Demigod in the very heart of his massive army. Or the entire story of the game. Building up Hoover Dam 2: About Dam Time as this massive important battle is badly overblown when you've personally punched Caesar in the balls until his limbs blasted off, then calmly strolled back out after looting the place. I kinda feel the same about OWB making the Courier an immortal unkillable cyborg, but I prefer House so it's at least thematic.
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Jan 6, 2013 06:16
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Saint Sputnik posted:Does he get an ending slide in such a case? If you finish Return to Sender after you kill Caesar, you can talk Hanlon out of spreading false Intel by telling and in his ending slide he either becomes a Senator for the NCR or retires to a simple farm, can't remember what ending for what faction winning though.
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Jan 6, 2013 07:10
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Orange Crush Rush posted:If you finish Return to Sender after you kill Caesar, you can talk Hanlon out of spreading false Intel by telling and in his ending slide he either becomes a Senator for the NCR or retires to a simple farm, can't remember what ending for what faction winning though. If you push back the NCR, but are not in the Legion, and don't turn him in, he is outspoken against Oliver and Kimball's imperialism, and eventually becomes a Senator. If you did convince him to stop falsifying reports, which requires you killing Caesar, than he retires to a farm. He basically has the same ending as the latter if you win the battle for the NCR, regardless of if you kill Caesar or not. Roobanguy fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Jan 6, 2013 |
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Jan 6, 2013 07:30
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I played another 20 hours of New Vegas over break, and I'm playing a character type I've never played before. I finally got around to playing for House, and while I'm using Guns like always, I'm focusing more on being a commando than normal. My character (named Old Ira Bowes) is a walking death machine who would definitely be played by Morgan Freeman in a movie adaptation. I'm not too into the whole roleplaying thing but setting character limitations on myself and forcing myself to make decisions that I wouldn't personally make but I think my character would is making the game incredibly interesting. I have a tendency to Minmax with my other characters, so this is making for a really interesting game. That being said, I think this one is my most successful character yet as far as pure damage output and well-roundedness. I'm in the middle of Dead Money right now and I'm feeling like a super badass. Who knew Explosives would but such a useful skill? There have been more Explosives skill checks than I realized. While I'm playing (generally) Neutral Evil, there are paths I've been working towards that I never had the chance to play before that don't necessarily fit in but make the game way more interesting. Speech checking DOG out of being a crazy monster, for instance, is something I wasn't able to do at the time I played Dead Money last just out of virtue of not being leveled enough. New Vegas is one of those games that just never ceases to amaze me. It's not the most open ended game ever, but the writing in the various paths is so good that even if I've played them before (Hello, the 9 times I've played Honest Hearts) I'm always interested and engaged.
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Jan 6, 2013 15:54
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laplace posted:I'm not too into the whole roleplaying thing but setting character limitations on myself and forcing myself to make decisions that I wouldn't personally make but I think my character would is making the game incredibly interesting. I have a tendency to Minmax with my other characters, so this is making for a really interesting game. That being said, I think this one is my most successful character yet as far as pure damage output and well-roundedness. I'm in the middle of Dead Money right now and I'm feeling like a super badass. Who knew Explosives would but such a useful skill? There have been more Explosives skill checks than I realized. I'm way into roleplaying and realism and poo poo, but in Fallout I still tend to min/max early on just so I don't end up with a gimpy character later on. But my latest install/playthrough is my first with CCO, and the readme did a nice job of pounding the value of having a well-balanced character through my head. So that's the mindset I went in with, and so far it's been a pretty awesome experience. I don't think I have a SPECIAL stat higher than 7 or 8 at the moment (and none lower than 4 or 5), and I didn't run my build through a spreadsheet or anything beforehand. At level 14-ish I actually took the CHR+1 perk (  ), because I realized I wanted to tote around an extra companion more than whatever combat perk I was planning to take. Never in a million years would I have "wasted" a perk on something like that in previous playthoughs (maybe a couple eventual SPECIAL boosts to max out Luck or something, but Charisma is such a total waste in vanilla).Anyway, for these and other similar going-with-the-flow reasons, my character feels a lot more organic than usual, and it's a really enjoyable change of pace. Hopefully I don't get shredded later on. I've never actually played through OWB or LR before (I think OWB just came out as I was wrapping up my last FNV playthough); I think I'll take the generally accepted suggestion to do that sooner rather than later, before it turns into a complete bullet-sponge party. Trustworthy fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jan 6, 2013 |
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Jan 6, 2013 20:31
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I always take Logan's Loophole just to avoid bullet-sponge enemies.
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Jan 6, 2013 20:33
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Byzantine posted:I always take Logan's Loophole just to avoid bullet-sponge enemies. That's a good idea, but there are just too many new high level perks I've been itching to try out! 
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Jan 6, 2013 20:36
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Trustworthy posted:That's a good idea, but there are just too many new high level perks I've been itching to try out! Slight OWB spoiler You can switch it out after finishing OWB, there's something that lets you reset your traits in there.
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Jan 6, 2013 20:37
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Couple of tips for dealing with the bullet sponges: 1) use melee. Melee weapons in New Vegas will flatten any enemy faster than guns, and the best weapons in OWB are the X2 and the proton inversal axes. I suspect this is deliberate, as Chris Avellone complained in his Dead Money blog entry that most players just take a gun out and aim for the head in combat. Forcing players to switch it up and give melee weapons a try sounds like the kind of thing he might do as a response to that. It convinced me to focus entirely on melee and unarmed combat in my next playthrough, I know that much. 2) if you've got the Gun Runners' Arsenal save up around 10k caps and buy the MF Hyperbreeder Alpha from Cliff Briscoe in Novac. It is ludicrously powerful and will make short work of the hardiest of bullet sponges.
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Jan 6, 2013 21:31
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Fag Boy Jim posted:Slight OWB spoiler Doesn't that defeat the point of using it in the first place?
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Jan 6, 2013 21:40
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I guess for some people the reason to use Logan's Loophole is to be immune to addiction and the level cap is just a downside.
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Jan 6, 2013 21:45
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Smol posted:Doesn't that defeat the point of using it in the first place? OWB is the worst area in the game when it comes to being spongy at high levels, so it might make sense to remove the cap after finishing it.
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Jan 6, 2013 21:46
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2house2fly posted:1) use melee. Melee weapons in New Vegas will flatten any enemy faster than guns, and the best weapons in OWB are the X2 and the proton inversal axes. I suspect this is deliberate, as Chris Avellone complained in his Dead Money blog entry that most players just take a gun out and aim for the head in combat. Forcing players to switch it up and give melee weapons a try sounds like the kind of thing he might do as a response to that. That's kind of a passive-aggressive way to go about that. Why not just make guns rarer because they're all rusting away by this point?
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Jan 6, 2013 21:58
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Byzantine posted:That's kind of a passive-aggressive way to go about that. Why not just make guns rarer because they're all rusting away by this point? Rarity as a game balance mechanic tends to work only for a certain period of time and tends to be unduly punishing for first-time players (who may not be aware of how rare something actually is in the game world), especially if it's for one of the primary weapon types of the game. It makes much more sense to simply make melee better for dealing damage given the dangerous position you put yourself in to use it.
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Jan 6, 2013 22:05
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I'm curious... Does anyone know if FNV suffers from the FormID-related(?) container bug present in the Elder Scrolls games? Well, in Oblivion at least; I'm not entirely sure about Skyrim, but it seems like one of those deep-under-the-hood issues that would be tough or even impossible to fix. I mean the bug where if you put too many items in a container (esp. over-repaired items in Oblivion), the container eventually and permanently overloads, getting all hosed up and doing weird things like making big swaths of stuff vanish from its inventory list? Because my crafting bins are getting pretty packed to the brim with a million tons of poo poo, and I'm a little worried because that bug has bit me pretty hard in the past. I guess this probably relates to the not-really-container-related savegame bloat issue in Skyrim. The one that I use a couple of different optimization mods to avoid, that delete random unnecessary objects in player-checked containers and corpses, dropped weapons, etc. Just to clarify, I'm not worried about FONV slow-down when opening an extremely full container; just the bug(s) that might break the container or somehow interfere/overwhelm the game's item ID system. ME JUST MISTER PLAY GAMES DUMB MAN ME NO UNDERSTAND HOW GAME WORK INSIDE Trustworthy fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jan 7, 2013 |
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Jan 7, 2013 17:05
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Trustworthy posted:I'm curious... Does anyone know if FNV suffers from the FormID-related(?) container bug present in the Elder Scrolls games? Well, in Oblivion at least; I'm not entirely sure about Skyrim, but it seems like one of those deep-under-the-hood issues that would be tough or even impossible to fix. Due to how much simpler the FO3 engine's inventory system is in comparison to Oblivion, not really, but you will get major slowdown when you reach 250+ equipment pieces or unique misc. or aid items (having 700 stimpaks is fine, having 700 different foods isn't.)
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Jan 7, 2013 17:08
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:Due to how much simpler the FO3 engine's inventory system is in comparison to Oblivion, not really, but you will get major slowdown when you reach 250+ equipment pieces or unique misc. or aid items (having 700 stimpaks is fine, having 700 different foods isn't.) That's what I was hoping to hear. Thanks! 
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Jan 7, 2013 17:11
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Byzantine posted:That's kind of a passive-aggressive way to go about that. Why not just make guns rarer because they're all rusting away by this point? That wouldn't make much sense in the context of New Vegas. They could have gotten away with that in Fallout 3, but the NCR is already establishing a manufacuting base in the events for Fallout 2, and in New Vegas, most of the more advanced guns in the game can be inferred to have been recently manufactured, rather than pre-war relics. You'd need to retcon the events of Fallout 2 to make a game involving the NCR where all the guns are rusting away, and it wouldn't fit with what I'd say is the overall arc of the three west coast fallout games, which is gradual restoration of pre-war civilization in the form of the NCR; The way I see it, across the three games the NCR is the protagonist as much as the Vault Dweller, Chosen One and the Courier.
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Jan 7, 2013 17:29
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Byzantine posted:That's kind of a passive-aggressive way to go about that. Why not just make guns rarer because they're all rusting away by this point? Chris Avellone posted:We didn't set out to make Dead Money a Survival experience - we set out to make a Horror game that put Survival second. In terms of horror, I don't feel we succeeded, although it was a conscious effort to try and shake things up a bit with the enemies you faced to scare the player, definitely. The enemies are not only tough (which is easy to do with numbers, so I don't feel that's a real challenge), but also intended to be unpredictable when they fall, so you couldn't always count on shooting an enemy until they fall as being a guarantee that you're safe. The original hope was that the enemies couldn't simply be headshotted continuously - this is a selfish reason, as I get tired of watching people play like that non-stop (it doesn't feel like they're experimenting with limb-targeting tactics, despite the array of weapons), although the non-headshotting tactical diversion didn't turn out that way (it's just as easy to decapitate a head as a limb with the right blasts). I guess they didn't realise that there's a very good reason most people go for headshots: all other options are kinda rubbish. Sure, I could go for the legs, cripple them and make the enemy move slower. Or I could target the arms and lower their accuracy with their guns. But when are those ever better options then simply killing them faster? Raygereio fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jan 7, 2013 |
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Jan 7, 2013 17:42
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Raygereio posted:Here the full quote: The Y-17 Trauma Harnesses would have been a good way to experiment with this. You shoot at the head, the head comes off, and it does nothing because the enemy isn't the person inside the suit but the suit itself. If they'd given that trauma harness functionality to the hazmatsuits in DM that could have been a way to get people to aim elsewhere. Or they could make DT body-part specific and give mask helmets insane DT so you have no chance of damaging the head, in which case you'd... just aim for the torso. Hmm. It's a hard question to resolve and I appreciate them experimenting with it at least. If nothing else Dead Money and Old World Blues did get me to branch out from Guns and expand my palate.
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Jan 7, 2013 17:58
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I switched to melee for the duration of Dead Money partly on the solid basis of how cool the spinning swing with the knife spear looked. But the reason I'd never use melee weapons in the main game is that there's just too much fighting in wide open spaces. I've done melee runs in Fallout 3, but in general with Fallout 3 you were pretty safe wandering the wasteland, and actual quests largely took place in cramped corridors and ruins of DC's buildings, many of which were filled with ghouls who were melee-only, or super mutants who used melee weapons in many cases. By comparison, in Vegas there is a lot more combat outdoors, many more of the enemies use guns, and whereas Deathclaws in Fallout 3 were mostly confined to Old Olney, Deathclaws and Cazadors together are more common such that when you are up against an overworld enemy who uses a melee attack, in general you really really don't want them to get into melee range. And you took more damage in VATS in New Vegas, so whereas in Fallout 3 a deathclaw in melee range could be dealt with by using VATS to protect yourself while hitting the monster with your chinese sword, trying that in New Vegas just gets your head taken off. Stealth also seems harder in New Vegas, or at least I had a much harder time closing in on people to hit them with melee sneak attacks until I had a very high sneak skill. Of course, you can stick on some power armor and chug a boatload of chems, but the tradeoffs of spending time loving about with taking chems in the menus, plus the reduced speed of power armor make it feel like it wasn't worth the effort, personally.
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Jan 7, 2013 18:28
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Personally, I never felt like we needed to "make" people use melee/unarmed weapons if they didn't want to. I've seen a ton of players assume that melee/unarmed were weak until they did a melee/unarmed run and realized that both weapon types are viable. Dead Money's/OWB's melee/unarmed weapons aren't dramatically more powerful than the weapons in the core game, but the fights there tend to take place at closer range.
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Jan 7, 2013 18:36
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Orange Crush Rush posted:If you finish Return to Sender after you kill Caesar, you can talk Hanlon out of spreading false Intel by telling and in his ending slide he either becomes a Senator for the NCR or retires to a simple farm, can't remember what ending for what faction winning though. Should let him survive in my next run. I usually let him off himself because hey, free gun. Byzantine posted:I always take Logan's Loophole just to avoid bullet-sponge enemies. I always use it because I like a build to feel 'finished' and to force myself to be more choosy in my perks.
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Jan 7, 2013 19:00
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rope kid posted:Personally, I never felt like we needed to "make" people use melee/unarmed weapons if they didn't want to. I've seen a ton of players assume that melee/unarmed were weak until they did a melee/unarmed run and realized that both weapon types are viable. Dead Money's/OWB's melee/unarmed weapons aren't dramatically more powerful than the weapons in the core game, but the fights there tend to take place at closer range. Yeah, for me that was exactly the difference that made melee Fun in Dead Money and Not Fun in the Mojave. Charging across a field in power armor at a slow run wasn't fun, and standing round a corner and waiting in order to exploit the AI into closing to melee range for me wasn't fun, but dropping from a teracotta rooftop right onto a ghost person and decapitating them with a spinning airborne power attack was cool as hell.
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Jan 7, 2013 19:06
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So I recently started a "legion" playthrough (in quotations because I may have my character undergo a change of heart after Lonesome Road. I am a pansy and need to have my legion cake but eat the good endings too). In my last attempts to ally with the legion, I struggled with trying to understand why any sane, Int > 3 character would voluntarily make that decision. After watching Apocalypse Now and browsing the Freep thread, I think I've finally found a satisfying way to do it: by gently pushing a self-interested character down a slippery slope instead of setting him up as a zealot from the start. At the start of the game, his morality was based around pure survival and relentless motivation to get revenge. I ignored the tutorial out of the attitude that my character didn't feel they could teach him anything he didn't already know. He didn't make any effort to get to know or talk to the residents about anything other than practical matters like trading, making him ignorant of the good nature of many Mojave residents. The first real in-depth interaction with an NPC was when he decided to help Barton Thorn, and we all know how that goes. So now, up to Nipton, I've got a self-interested, pretty arrogant hardcore survivalist whose only interactions with people so far have involved being backstabbed or shot at. Meeting Tomas after his duel with Jackie on the road to Nipton further cemented his belief that nobody could really be trusted. Meeting the legion at Nipton was like a breath of fresh air to him. Finally, some people that don't take any poo poo from the assholes that populate the Mojave. This isn't the moment he decides to devote his life to Caesar, but it certainly will act as a frame for who he decides to back.
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Jan 7, 2013 22:07
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The backstory for my Legion character was that she had spent the better portion of her life as a directionless hedonist born and raised in New Reno. Her only goal in life was to get high, and the only reason she took the Courier gig that got her shot was so she could earn some drug money. As she tore through the Mojave seeking revenge on Benny, she ended up taking some Legion jobs that she thought would pay well. They did, so she kept taking more jobs from them. And more jobs, and more jobs, and more jobs. Eventually, she started to feel like she was a part of something bigger than herself. Working for the Legion had finally given her a purpose in life. Within time she weaned off of chems and embraced her position as Caesar's sword. I would like to think that after the second battle of Hoover Dam she started to change the Legion's views on women.
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Jan 7, 2013 22:38
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Reveilled posted:Yeah, for me that was exactly the difference that made melee Fun in Dead Money and Not Fun in the Mojave. Charging across a field in power armor at a slow run wasn't fun, and standing round a corner and waiting in order to exploit the AI into closing to melee range for me wasn't fun, but dropping from a teracotta rooftop right onto a ghost person and decapitating them with a spinning airborne power attack was cool as hell. If you want power armor to seem truly "powered," get this mod. The only downside is that it make the armor x10 more expensive to obtain/maintain. You do become an unkillable bullet sponge with the T-51b though.
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Jan 7, 2013 23:00
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Raygereio posted:I guess they didn't realise that there's a very good reason most people go for headshots: all other options are kinda rubbish. The only thing wrong with their approach I think is that it was really only half finished. They addressed the part about "why aim elsewhere when you kill it quick enough aiming for the head". The problem is that the other reason nobody aims for the legs or arms is because crippling them takes too much effort for too little effect. As a result, even on the bullet spongey enemies of Dead money and OWB, it's still not worth it to aim for anything other than the head, because the debuffs from crippled limbs simply don't amount to anything.
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Jan 7, 2013 23:08
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Head Hit Keyboard posted:The only thing wrong with their approach I think is that it was really only half finished. They addressed the part about "why aim elsewhere when you kill it quick enough aiming for the head". The problem is that the other reason nobody aims for the legs or arms is because crippling them takes too much effort for too little effect. As a result, even on the bullet spongey enemies of Dead money and OWB, it's still not worth it to aim for anything other than the head, because the debuffs from crippled limbs simply don't amount to anything. Honestly one of the only reasons I target limbs is when I am decimating human opponents with shotguns and want to feel like Clarence Boddicker. I am so glad there is a related achievement.
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Jan 8, 2013 01:54
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Head Hit Keyboard posted:The only thing wrong with their approach I think is that it was really only half finished. They addressed the part about "why aim elsewhere when you kill it quick enough aiming for the head". The problem is that the other reason nobody aims for the legs or arms is because crippling them takes too much effort for too little effect. As a result, even on the bullet spongey enemies of Dead money and OWB, it's still not worth it to aim for anything other than the head, because the debuffs from crippled limbs simply don't amount to anything. Reveilled posted:Yeah, for me that was exactly the difference that made melee Fun in Dead Money and Not Fun in the Mojave. Charging across a field in power armor at a slow run wasn't fun, and standing round a corner and waiting in order to exploit the AI into closing to melee range for me wasn't fun, but dropping from a teracotta rooftop right onto a ghost person and decapitating them with a spinning airborne power attack was cool as hell.
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Jan 8, 2013 01:59
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While I agree I usually go for headshots, when it comes to Cazadors I'm so glad I can target wings. It makes it possible to beat them at lower levels.
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Jan 8, 2013 02:09
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Raygereio posted:Here the full quote: I think another issue here is that you're only rewarded with experience for "successfully" completing a combat encounter if it ends with every hostile target turned into a pile of bloody gibs. It actually makes it kind of difficult for me to identify with any Courier persona, because you're seriously bordering on sociopathy unless you go out of your way to play as an extreme pacifist. I know that they whole wasteland genre of games is all about crazy raiders and mutants just running wild over the post apocalyptic landscape and it's eat or get eaten, but if they really wanted to model the game after a more realistic "fight or flight" instinct, there should be some kind of combat reward for doing just enough damage to drive away your attackers without having to completely murder them. I know the AI is programmed to run and cower on most units after a specific damage threshold is crossed, but you still don't get any reward (xp/loot/money) if you don't methodically hunt them down and drive a bullet into their skull. I don't know how feasible it would be to implement the kind of system I'm describing in an open world, sand boxy game, but it could certainly work in a system that is more module based (I'm thinking something like the D&D 4E encounter system). If you just wanted to slapdash a sloppy fix into the current FO3/NV system, I guess you could set the combat XP value for all entities to zero (thus making combat less of an appealing conflict resolution mechanism) but there's still the prospect of finding better gear or acquiring more ammo/food, so it's not a perfect solution. I always felt like XP rewards in an actual table top RPG with a live DM were more of a reflection of completing / surviving a specific encounter, and not just representative of the fact that you killed 30 orcs, but I guess that's something that's hard to translate from tabletop to video console.
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Jan 8, 2013 02:20
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How about a surrender dialogue and you tell them to get lost after foreiting any possessions of your choice (they disappear after a while). Obviously some of your companions will state how you should have killed them off
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Jan 8, 2013 02:39
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gyrobot posted:How about a surrender dialogue and you tell them to get lost after foreiting any possessions of your choice (they disappear after a while). Obviously some of your companions will state how you should have killed them off I mean there's plenty of ways you could try and kludge something in but it'd really only work if the game and system of mechanics was built from the ground up to reflect a different method of conflict resolution. To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of how the skill check dialogue works in FNV - it's a binary pass / fail system that also kind breaks the fourth wall with the way it's presented. It might as well look like "[36/50]Bet you wish you could see this alternate solution huh?" For example, I think it'd be neater if the game only displayed the alternate conversation options if you already met the requirements and it didn't give any kind of obvious indication that a certain conversation choice was a magic bullet solution for a given quest.
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Jan 8, 2013 05:55
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I hate the whole "Shoot them in the legs!" argument. Oh boy, now they're somehow running at like 90% speed on legs that visually shouldn't be able to support them. I'm glad I spent my ammo and distance on this.
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Jan 8, 2013 06:15
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In vanilla New Vegas crippling a Deathclaw's legs is really handy if you're fighting medium to close range and you can't otherwise normally take on a Deathclaw. You can run circles around it chipping away at it while it struggles to catch up. Crippled legs slows them down way more than 10%. I'd even go so far as to say that crippling the legs guarantees a win unless you just have lovely luck and/or suck at the game. I know for a fact crippling the legs has saved more than a few of my character's asses. Obviously crippling the legs are pointless if you started out fighting far enough away/you don't have a problem with Deathclaw's to begin with, and I agree it's pretty pointless to do in all other situations.
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Jan 8, 2013 06:42
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