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Ogmius815 posted:Tong is an anarchist who thinks that the internet and the modern world are just, like, systems to oppress us man. He isn't completely wrong either. Tong is a loving moron who thinks that taking away the means for people to organise themselves without first bombing every corporation into dust will somehow result in a magical society of fairness and pixie dust. He's not actually an anarchist.
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Jan 5, 2013 15:36
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Tong is a loving moron who thinks that taking away the means for people to organise themselves without first bombing every corporation into dust will somehow result in a magical society of fairness and pixie dust. He's not actually an anarchist. Well yeah. They aren't mutually exclusive. It's just that Tong isn't *completely* wrong about the oppressive nature of modernity; his prescription is just ridiculous.
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Jan 5, 2013 17:22
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Pre-industrial civilization wasn't exactly a time of peace and freedom and brotherly love, either.
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Jan 6, 2013 01:31
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Tong is a loving moron who thinks that taking away the means for people to organise themselves without first bombing every corporation into dust will somehow result in a magical society of fairness and pixie dust. He's not actually an anarchist. In DX2, I'm pretty sure Tong outright says "yeah my ideals in DX1 were dumb. Sorry." when you meet him.
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Jan 6, 2013 01:41
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Sam. posted:I don't think destroying Area 51 would actually lead to a Dark Age. Sure, the Internet and all other communications would be disabled, but the physical lines don't magically disappear, and it wouldn't be that hard to reroute and reprogram them. In the meantime, the stock market and financial industry would collapse, and there'd be riots and looting and stuff, but in most places the police and military could probably restore order. And even if anarchy does result, it wouldn't necessarily be a new Dark Age - look at Somalia, for example. Deus Ex: Invisible War shows that Tong massively overstated the effect that shutting down Aquinas would have on the world. It's only 20 years later and the rich are still rich, the poor are still poor, pop stars are still making music, and ancient secret societies are still up in everyone's business.
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Jan 6, 2013 01:54
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Although it's probably more realistic this way, I think a major reason for this is the need to reconcile all Deus Ex endings, not because it's the logical conclusion for the this ending.
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Jan 6, 2013 03:04
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How do you guys feel about Human Revolution? Is it any good?
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Jan 7, 2013 03:32
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Ogmius815 posted:How do you guys feel about Human Revolution? Is it any good? Loved it. Very very pleasantly surprised by how well Eidos Montreal did, had a grand old time, now I can't wait to see what they do with the Thief series.
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Jan 7, 2013 03:34
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Ogmius815 posted:How do you guys feel about Human Revolution? Is it any good? It's worthy of the Deus Ex title.
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Jan 7, 2013 03:36
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Ogmius815 posted:How do you guys feel about Human Revolution? Is it any good? Better than IW but I missed there being loads of great secrets that made the levels worth exploring such as Morpheus. There were some but nothing as good as the original.
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Jan 7, 2013 03:36
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Ogmius815 posted:How do you guys feel about Human Revolution? Is it any good? It's great, probably the best thing we could get while at the same time being a AAA game meant to appeal to a mainstream audience. The only real mis-step is that the bosses can be a pain in the rear end, but even then if you swallow your pride and use a guide it's just an annoyance rather than a brick wall. Steam has it on sale for $5 all the time.
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Jan 7, 2013 04:02
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Ogmius815 posted:How do you guys feel about Human Revolution? Is it any good? Wish it retained the textual, postmodern brilliance of the first one but that trend in games died a while ago. As a game I'd say it's pretty drat good but as a Deus Ex title it's not terrific.
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Jan 7, 2013 04:04
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I thoroughly enjoyed HR. The game is great, it keeps with the spirit of the original very well (e.g., multiple solutions to every problem, extra story content for those who bother to look for it, global conspiracy subplots). The exceptions to this are the three aforementioned boss fights, only one of which I struggled with even on my initial nonlethal playthrough. Artistically, I was impressed by the "Future Renaissance" theme which gives a very different feel to the overall world and contrasts starkly with the "underbelly" portions of levels as well as the first game. You see the hopes placed on augmentation contrast with those left behind and see how far society fell by the time J.C. Denton starts his adventure. It doesn't feel exactly like DX, and it's a little bit constrained story-wise in that it's a prequel, but unless the lack of nostalgia for the exact scope and feel of a turn-of-the-millenium Unreal-engine game is a deal-killer, I think you'll have fun.
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Jan 7, 2013 04:20
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Derek Dominoe posted:I thoroughly enjoyed HR. The game is great, it keeps with the spirit of the original very well (e.g., multiple solutions to every problem, extra story content for those who bother to look for it, global conspiracy subplots). The exceptions to this are the three aforementioned boss fights, only one of which I struggled with even on my initial nonlethal playthrough. I loved the Renaissance. If anything, the one element that's shown the biggest improvement in modern games over their predecessors is Design Theory. It's refreshing for Deus Ex to have interfaces, architecture, and menus that look appropriate for the time. I know the limitations of games 10 years ago, but it's refreshing to revisit a setting that looks like our vision of future. Granted, in another 10 years it'll probably look like crap...
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Jan 7, 2013 04:38
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WOw I can't believe I spent skill points on rifles. Dragon's tooth just kind of tears through everything.
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Jan 7, 2013 05:13
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Ogmius815 posted:WOw I can't believe I spent skill points on rifles. Dragon's tooth just kind of tears through everything. The Dragon's Tooth is indeed awesome, but a sniper rifle + master skill is also overpowered. You can kill most enemies, security cameras, even some doors (iirc) with a single shot. Silenced Sniper + Dragon's Tooth + GEP for all your  needs.
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Jan 7, 2013 05:32
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BattleMaster posted:Deus Ex: Invisible War shows that Tong massively overstated the effect that shutting down Aquinas would have on the world. It's only 20 years later and the rich are still rich, the poor are still poor, pop stars are still making music, and ancient secret societies are still up in everyone's business. IW tried to merge all three endings and so it had to neuter each one individually - so this isn't really a fair judgment, because all three of them were effectively made pointless the same way.
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Jan 7, 2013 05:41
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Human revolution is a fantastic game. I particularly liked the conversations, but the boss fights were pretty horrid.
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Jan 7, 2013 06:13
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The assault rifle definitely got the short end in DX. They made like 5 bullets from it as powerful as 1 bullet from the pistol for no good reason. And a 5-shot burst? What a clumsy design choice. It gave you the equivalent of like 6 pistol shots in a clip except you needed to hold the crosshair on someone longer while all the bullets emptied from it. Like you're annoying a guy to death.
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Jan 7, 2013 06:14
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Ogmius815 posted:How do you guys feel about Human Revolution? Is it any good? Everything up to the Omega Ranch is pretty solidly fun and when I first played it made me think "wow, this is a sequel to Deus Ex!" Everything after that is a massive disappointment, and the ending is literally four buttons in a room that each bring up a different slideshow. It's clear that the people who made it were people who liked Deus Ex and wanted to make a sequel. Unfortunately, they did it by copying all of the mistakes Deus Ex made as well as some of the stuff that made it great. (No, weapon accuracy isn't tied to skills before you ask.) That and the game has an absolutely loving fantastic "boss conversation" system that by all right should have been used for the actual boss fights to let you bypass them but nope, it happens two or three times in the game and then the boss fights are straight up "stand in one room and wail on a guy with a thousand hit points" stuff. Ogmius815 posted:WOw I can't believe I spent skill points on rifles. Wait you mean you don't enjoy having what essentially amounts to the Quake 3 railgun? Fully upgraded sniper rifle + Master in rifles means you get a pinpoint accurate cannon that can even shoot doors off. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Jan 7, 2013 |
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Jan 7, 2013 08:06
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The boss conversation ~confrontation~ system in HR is brilliant and felt considerably more climactic and true-to-DX than the actual bossfights.
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Jan 7, 2013 09:04
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Ogmius815 posted:How do you guys feel about Human Revolution? Is it any good? It seemed a bit too heavily biased towards stealth to me, which is fair enough for a Deus Ex game, but in the original you started off flimsy and had to sneak everywhere, but as you progressed and chose the right augs and skills tanking became very viable indeed. In HR it's the other way around: you can play it as a straight shooter for a while, but no matter how much you upgrade your armour you're eventually forced to be stealthy. I also didn't much care for the cover shooting, but I'm not too fond of that trend in general. It slows down the combat and makes it so that you have to just plink away at the enemies bit by bit, rather than wading in and utterly obliterating them like the bionic super-security guard you are. Again, I was hoping that by the end of the game I wouldn't have to bother so much with it, but no such luck. It would have been neat if it was available but not required. The final level sucked. Why did Darrow's technobabble turn everyone into brainless zombies? Why didn't at least some of them remember how to use guns? I didn't expect to end up playing Left 4 Deus Ex. Linear though the original's last few bits might have been, at least there was an interesting variety of enemies. Despite all that, I did enjoy it. It added a lot of fun elements, the conversation system was fantastic, and you could play Adam as a colossal cyborg jerk in the finest traditions of Deus Ex. I just wish they'd kept in a few more of the things that made the first one so great.
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Jan 7, 2013 18:18
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I really enjoyed HR but there's no way it'd hold up to repeated runthroughs like Deus Ex. I'm fairly thorough with games to the point where I'm pretty sure I've found everything there is to find in the original but it obviously took me a while. With HR you can have everything useful maxed fairly quickly so there's very little stopping you exploring and finding everything the first time around. Also it felt with HR the different approaches were signposted a lot more obviously, sometimes literally with ladders and vents glowing. Deus Ex felt more organic, I'd often complete objectives through a combination of methods without really realising it and sometimes I'd just bumble across them while in the middle of having a little poke around for the sake of it. Comparing the two in some ways, especially the length, really isn't fair because they're both products of different times of game production. However I do think Eidos could have taken a few more risks and it still feels short even by today's standards. Also I've never actually completed HR 'properly' because the endgame was so obviously rushed and an incomprehensible mess I just sped through the last 20 minutes or so not bothering to read or explore, I just shot my way to the final boss (which is also a total clusterfuck) to get it over and done with which goes very much against the way I normally play games. At the time I said I'd go back and do it properly but I've still not bothered.
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Jan 7, 2013 20:02
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Ogmius815 posted:How do you guys feel about Human Revolution? Is it any good? I thought it was a little better than IW, and it had some dumb as gently caress pitfalls, but it was well worth the steam sale price. It was heavily slanted toward a pacifist stealth run - I'm pretty sure that if you shot people with guns for most of the game you'd be utterly hosed for experience. But it was fun and a good game and Adam Jensen's low monotone was a worthy successor to JC's low monotone. edit: and yeah the end game was so lamely disparate from the rest of the game it's almost hard to believe that it wasn't some kind of hosed up callback to the first game's lovely last level and its press-button-get-ending mechanics.
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Jan 8, 2013 07:42
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I'm always reminded of this when Deus Ex and HR are compared. I meant to play both games, but I kind of got sucked up into replaying Deus Ex after I beat it.. I'll eventually try HR.
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Jan 8, 2013 07:48
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Little Blue Couch posted:It was heavily slanted toward a pacifist stealth run - I'm pretty sure that if you shot people with guns for most of the game you'd be utterly hosed for experience. Also, the stealth augs (like cloaking) are sometimes game-breakingly good (for example: cloaking) and if you play a stealth-oriented game (by taking cloaking) your augs (cloaking) will let you avoid most encounters.
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Jan 8, 2013 12:29
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Daktar posted:The final level sucked. Why did Darrow's technobabble turn everyone into brainless zombies? Why didn't at least some of them remember how to use guns? I didn't expect to end up playing Left 4 Deus Ex. Linear though the original's last few bits might have been, at least there was an interesting variety of enemies.
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Jan 8, 2013 13:04
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Baron Bifford posted:Remember the chip upgrade every augmented person was told to get later in the game? It's programmed to gently caress up your brain with a simple remote command. Just because there's an in-universe explanation for something unnecessary and dull doesn't mean it becomes necessary and interesting.
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Jan 8, 2013 13:30
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The final level shenanigans at least meant you had to change your tactics, though I found it slightly underwhelming. Can someone elaborate on the 'renaissance theme' in Human Revolution? All I ever saw was that cinematic of surgeons looking down on Jensen like art from the period, or the news reporter's clothing. I guess there were subtle parts in how augmentations were part of a new renaissance, but anything else seemed to fly by me.
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Jan 8, 2013 13:34
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Everyone's clothing is somewhat rennaisance inspired, it was a design decision they made early on. The reporter's clothing is the most obvious but other characters have more subtle inspirations. Sariff's outfit is a good example and so is Meghan's. Some of the architecture is also very gothic inspired.
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Jan 8, 2013 13:46
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I love how Sariff's vest is made to look like it's made of polygons, like he stole from the wardrobe of a late 90s videogame character.
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Jan 8, 2013 15:41
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Baron Bifford posted:I love how Sariff's vest is made to look like it's made of polygons, like he stole from the wardrobe of a late 90s videogame character. 1 2 3 4 5
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Jan 8, 2013 18:25
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RagnarokAngel posted:Everyone's clothing is somewhat rennaisance inspired, it was a design decision they made early on. The reporter's clothing is the most obvious but other characters have more subtle inspirations. Sariff's outfit is a good example and so is Meghan's. One thing I loved about the architecture is that a lot of it was very clearly built on modern-day architecture, which is itself built on even older stuff. It's not like they would raze the entire city to the ground and re-build it in future style, so seeing the old city of detroit with the odd bits of future tech and design was awesome. I really, really love Deus Ex but its vision of the future is really bad + uneven: computers that are still curved, folding monstrosities combined with holographic monitors and grey concrete blocks everywhere.
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Jan 8, 2013 23:31
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fleshweasel posted:The assault rifle definitely got the short end in DX. They made like 5 bullets from it as powerful as 1 bullet from the pistol for no good reason. And a 5-shot burst? What a clumsy design choice. It gave you the equivalent of like 6 pistol shots in a clip except you needed to hold the crosshair on someone longer while all the bullets emptied from it. Like you're annoying a guy to death. Actually the assault rifle is godlike once you get master rifles and recoil mods. Add a laser and scope you can kill anything almost in one shot from any distance. The problem is ammo is sparse in the first 2/3 of the game.
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Jan 9, 2013 00:20
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Lisand posted:Actually the assault rifle is godlike once you get master rifles and recoil mods. Add a laser and scope you can kill anything almost in one shot from any distance. The problem is ammo is sparse in the first 2/3 of the game.
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Jan 9, 2013 03:01
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Hogburto posted:I think you're thinking of the sniper rifle. No, the assault rifle is really good when you're a rifle master, it has a silencer, and you've put five clip mods + one or two accuracy mods on it. Master rifles + accuracy mods gives it one hundred percent accuracy for every shot. (Of course, unmodded in the early game it is just as useless as everybody says.)
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Jan 9, 2013 03:17
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The world would be a better place if more games taught kids that if you want to be good at something you need to work at it.
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Jan 9, 2013 04:46
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Little Blue Couch posted:it's almost hard to believe that it wasn't some kind of hosed up callback to the first game's lovely last level and its press-button-get-ending mechanics. What are you talking about? In Area 51 you have a choice of objectives leading to each ending. Button pressing is involved yes, but it was much better than HR where you defeat the boss and just have three buttons to choose.
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Jan 9, 2013 04:53
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One of the small details I've always found most fascinating in Deus Ex is the fact that smoking a cigarrette gives you a steadier aim while using scoped weapons.
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Jan 9, 2013 10:14
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jojoinnit posted:The world would be a better place if more games taught kids that if you want to be good at something you need to investigate every sewer and vent in search of pieces to duct-tape to your gun. I'm not so sure it would be.
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Jan 9, 2013 10:23
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