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Mechafunkzilla posted:Well that's just a silly statement. Legion of the Damned is awesome, as is Wrath of Iron. Battle of the Fang isn't too bad either. Ok this is true and i'm an idiot, I appear to have forgotten past the first four books.
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Jan 6, 2013 13:52
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I've been wondering just how deep Dan Abnett is in the Alpha Legion stuff. I've been rereading the Gaunt's Ghosts and on Aexe Cardinal and Herodor Gaunt talks to the old Sister of Battle in the chapel. She mentions the divine powers and this long plan that has been going on so long that they can see neither the beginning or the end. I wonder if the divine powers are the Cabal and the Alpha Legion is secretly running the whole show. Now Abnett has introduced them in Pariah and the rumours are he's going to take that even further. If there's anything at all to my theory, I really want to know what Milo's purpose in all this is.
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Jan 6, 2013 15:05
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Demiurge4 posted:I've been wondering just how deep Dan Abnett is in the Alpha Legion stuff. I've been rereading the Gaunt's Ghosts and on Aexe Cardinal and Herodor Gaunt talks to the old Sister of Battle in the chapel. She mentions the divine powers and this long plan that has been going on so long that they can see neither the beginning or the end. I wonder if the divine powers are the Cabal and the Alpha Legion is secretly running the whole show. Now Abnett has introduced them in Pariah and the rumours are he's going to take that even further. If there's anything at all to my theory, I really want to know what Milo's purpose in all this is. I doubt the stuff written four years before the Heresy books even began would be that in depth. I'm thinking Milo's purpose will deal more with the Ghosts in their own stories. After all, the Ghost stories take place over a hundred years after the (apocryphal) deaths of Ravenor and Eisenhorn.
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Jan 6, 2013 16:53
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Legion of the Damned is awesome, as is Wrath of Iron. Battle of the Fang isn't too bad either. Funny enough, those, plus Helsreach, were the first books of the series I read. So everything else from it has been just entertaining, rather than really, really good. I especially liked Battle of the Fang, just from the sheer amount of effort it took to kill Magnus. Or at least banish him. . I don't know if the big bad counts as a spoiler, so it's spoilered just in case.
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Jan 6, 2013 19:57
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berzerkmonkey posted:Well, half of it is, anyway. Pariah is a good Abnett book but falls short as an Eisenhorn v Ravenor book simply because of how often the two inquisitors appear in it. The second and/or third book will probably change this but I can understand why some people found Pariah to be a bit of a let down. Impaired Casing posted:I especially liked Battle of the Fang, just from the sheer amount of effort it took to kill Magnus. Or at least banish him. . Emperor's Gift does this really well too albeit with a different antagonist.
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Jan 6, 2013 20:55
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Kegslayer posted:Emperor's Gift does this really well too albeit with a different antagonist. When you start to think about it, the Grey Knight's plan is literally "bruise Angron so badly we can rebuild from our atrocious losses." Which is 40k as gently caress.
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Jan 7, 2013 10:05
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VanSandman posted:When you start to think about it, the Grey Knight's plan is literally "bruise Angron so badly we can rebuild from our atrocious losses." Which is 40k as gently caress. Breaking the blade is the most  thing I have ever read. They were successful though, so I dunno if its fair to say they just bruised him.
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Jan 7, 2013 10:10
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I think I need to read some of the Grey Knights stuff because since they were released not too long ago (hmm, maybe longer ago than I thought) I dont see them as they psyker killing rare specialists I did back at Rogue Trader/Second Edition, which was a lot cooler. Regarding the Las-guns, like todays rifles there are a load of variations, alternatives, calibers and capabilities. I think in some of the books there were discussions about power settings (first book maybe) and different types of rifle, and ammunition (I think in one book they were issued the wrong clip type or something). This would allow for some variance but as is mentioned elsewhere 90% of the bad guys in Gaunt's Ghosts are cultists and other humans, not the marines and demons that would be shrugging off your las-fire on the tabletop. I always pictured the las-locks as more like modern day sniper rifles, not semi automatic to reduce rifle twitch for precision shooting, but with it being a battery powered super flashlight that doesn't really add up and the single shot option maybe fits better. Just about to start reading Legion of the Damned, have high hopes!
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Jan 7, 2013 13:32
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Kegslayer posted:Pariah is a good Abnett book but falls short as an Eisenhorn v Ravenor book simply because of how often the two inquisitors appear in it. The second and/or third book will probably change this but I can understand why some people found Pariah to be a bit of a let down. Emnity posted:Just about to start reading Legion of the Damned, have high hopes!
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Jan 7, 2013 14:55
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Emnity posted:I always pictured the las-locks as more like modern day sniper rifles, not semi automatic to reduce rifle twitch for precision shooting, but with it being a battery powered super flashlight that doesn't really add up and the single shot option maybe fits better.
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Jan 7, 2013 15:15
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Just finished The Emperor's Gift. It was great and I never thought that little poo poo would show up again.
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Jan 7, 2013 18:54
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Azubah posted:Just finished The Emperor's Gift. It was great and I never thought that little poo poo would show up again. I know, Angron is such a turd
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Jan 7, 2013 20:40
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How many Imperial Guardsmen would it take to kill Angron?
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Jan 7, 2013 22:22
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Emnity posted:I think I need to read some of the Grey Knights stuff because since they were released not too long ago (hmm, maybe longer ago than I thought) I dont see them as they psyker killing rare specialists I did back at Rogue Trader/Second Edition, which was a lot cooler. I always took the different styles in guns as inevitable drift in style and manufacturing that is bound to take place in such a big universe. And then there is aesthetics like something looking good to one culture and bad to another. Running the Munitorium for a huge campaign with dozens of different lasgun styles must drive the quartermasters to drink.
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Jan 7, 2013 22:30
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I always thought that the different "types" of lasgun was just different power settings of the gun. The more juice you give it the more it has an "impact."
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Jan 7, 2013 22:53
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Basically, weapon design differences are due to three things: * Poorly-understood technology. Standard Template Constructors are basically magic boxes that things come out of to most of the Imperium. This means that the odds on a lasgun manufacturer perfectly understanding what he's making, what components are necessary/beneficial and so on are low in the extreme... and if he did understand all that, there's a not-insignificant chance of him being executed for techno-heresy. * Poor communication. The Imperium is huge, and even astrotelepathic communication is slow, expensive, and unreliable. As such, establishing a consistent knowledge-base and manufacturing standard is almost impossible across a single subsector, let alone the whole galaxy. This is exacerbated by the fact that people don't always ''want'' to communicate - the Adeptus Mechanicus are insular and hyper-competitive, jealously guarding the secrets that give them their edge. * Variable resources. The real magic of STC technology is that you can make it out of just about anything, and so designs will be heavily affected by the level of available technology. Whereas a feudal world would use wood and metal to make their lasguns, for instance, a forge world might use advanced plastics and ceramics.
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Jan 8, 2013 00:18
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Affi posted:How many Imperial Guardsmen would it take to kill Angron? All of them.
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Jan 8, 2013 00:26
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Shroud posted:All of them. Nah, only like half. The top half.
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Jan 8, 2013 00:35
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Darth Walrus posted:Lasguns Don't lasguns all have the same internal design? They're effective, cheap to make and extremely durable. You're also supposedly able to recharge the powerpacks just by leaving it in the sun or putting it in a camp fire.
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Jan 8, 2013 02:12
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Affi posted:How many Imperial Guardsmen would it take to kill Angron? A single Death Korps guardsman calmly firing his laspistol into the ammo cache of his Baneblade.
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Jan 8, 2013 03:02
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Darth Walrus posted:Basically, weapon design differences are due to three things: Note that, AFAIK, no STCs have been found (not for lack of trying). Images of STCs and blueprints/diagrams/etc of what they make have been found but that's it. Other than that, I would agree with you on the three points. Didn't a Gaunt's Ghosts book feature a STC that made evil Iron Men?
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Jan 8, 2013 04:12
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Not quite. STCs have been found that produce very specific things. One example was a new knife design that became standard issue for the guard. They have not found a single STC that can produce many different things.
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Jan 8, 2013 06:06
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Mechafunkzilla posted:A single Death Korps guardsman calmly firing his laspistol into the ammo cache of his Baneblade. Never forget 
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Jan 8, 2013 08:49
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Laslocks, going by terminology, are single-shot and seem to be more primitive, seeing as they've largely been used by the more poorly equipped Chaos forces and on worlds without more modern production capability. I remember an article, I think it was in White Dwarf way way back, that detailed various regiments and how different they were from one another. A regiment specialized in tunnel-warfare featured a trooper with a folding skeleton-stock Lasgun with single, burst, and full-auto settings. I think it was back when IG had various rules for customizing them to certain doctrines.
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Jan 8, 2013 11:51
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Kegslayer posted:Don't lasguns all have the same internal design? They're effective, cheap to make and extremely durable. You're also supposedly able to recharge the powerpacks just by leaving it in the sun or putting it in a camp fire. That's assuming that the manufacturer in question is capable of making a proper standard-template lasgun. For the reasons above, that ain't necessarily so. World A, for instance, might be able to make a lasgun that can switch between single-shot and full auto. World B, however, might only be able to make a single-shot lasgun, but one that can recharge its power cells in the sun. Note, though, that the Imperial Guard tends to get more standardised equipment than the PDF. They're backed and funded by the Imperium as a whole, rather than just one little world, and so their equipment is more often provided by the big forge worlds than some technologically-defunct backwater. This still means that there will be differences in lasgun design across the galaxy (because secretive, insular AdMech, and because individual regiments like to customise their gear for their individual purposes), but they'll be less pronounced than in the home-grown Planetary Defence Forces.
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Jan 8, 2013 12:03
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Just finished Pariah last night, really enjoyed it and can't wait for the next in the trilogy. Did anyone else get the feeling that Deathrow was a bigger player than he seemed, like possibly being Omegon himself? Why else would Teke pause and look shocked when seeing his face after his helm is ripped off? Unless the two of them had met before that we don't know about yet. Then you would have to ask the question of why he would be working with Eisenhorn in the first place.
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Jan 8, 2013 12:12
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It could just as well be Teke recognizing Deathrow as either a space marine in general or traitor marine and that rattling his bones. Or he could recognize this particular traitor marine? But him actually being a Primarch? He's described as smaller then Teke and if i'm not mistaken Primarchs are much bigger then their progeny.
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Jan 8, 2013 12:16
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Finished Imperial Glory last night. It was an odd book, definitely Zulu! in Space!. I quite enjoyed it though, even the epilogue (which was tacky). Made for a very enjoyable read, though, definitely worth picking up. Now I'm on to Gunheads, and then maybe Pariah if I can find a cheap copy. I've blown through my book budget recently.
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Jan 8, 2013 14:14
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Alpharius and Omegon aren't that much taller from regular Astartes and regularly have members of their Legion impersonate them. They also eschew the fancy Primarch wargear and arm themselves like normal Legionnaires. It's going to get... confusing. I'm reading Relentless and Lord of the Night now. The former is surprisingly decent--ship politics and all. I get a Royal Navy feel from it. The latter has an interesting main character, the psyker Interrogator, but I haven't warmed up to Sahaal himself yet.
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Jan 8, 2013 14:16
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Affi posted:It could just as well be Teke recognizing Deathrow as either a space marine in general or traitor marine and that rattling his bones. Or he could recognize this particular traitor marine? But him actually being a Primarch? He's described as smaller then Teke and if i'm not mistaken Primarchs are much bigger then their progeny. Yeah, it was established in Legion that alpharius and omegon are the size of a standard marine. I just think it's interesting, especially since deathrow was wearing a skin mask that also got ripped away with his helm, and teke seemed to recognize his real face. It's probably just a bro he knew.
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Jan 8, 2013 15:37
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Did anyone realize what Perturabo said in Angel Exterminatus? Just after the point where the Iron Hands overload their engines and blast through the Andronicus, Perturabo is remembering when he and the other Primarchs had to climb up the Astartes staircase to prove their strength and worth to the Emperor before they are allowed to go out and join the Great Crusade. He mentions that some didn't make it, implying that the missing Primarchs never even made it to the point where they were part of the gang. I'm really surprised no one has mentioned this yet. berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Jan 9, 2013 |
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Jan 8, 2013 16:00
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Demon Of The Fall posted:Just finished Pariah last night, really enjoyed it and can't wait for the next in the trilogy. Did anyone else get the feeling that Deathrow was a bigger player than he seemed, like possibly being Omegon himself? Why else would Teke pause and look shocked when seeing his face after his helm is ripped off? Unless the two of them had met before that we don't know about yet. Then you would have to ask the question of why he would be working with Eisenhorn in the first place. In addition, Space Marines, by virtue of the genetic horsing around involved to make them, are pretty distinctive. He may have just realized he was looking at a Marine.
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Jan 8, 2013 16:08
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Alpha Legion marines all look like each other, so if you've seen one you've seen them all. It's reasonable to think that Teke has met Alpha Legionnaires before, and upon seeing part of Deathrow's face he both realized that A) He was fighting another astertes and B) The Alpha Legion is involved in the affair, which was probably unbenknownst to him. I reckon that realizing you have another astartes faction involved, specially the Alpha Legion, is reason enough to be alarmed and disengage to reconsider the situation.
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Jan 8, 2013 19:33
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Nephilm posted:Alpha Legion marines all look like each other, so if you've seen one you've seen them all. It's reasonable to think that Teke has met Alpha Legionnaires before, and upon seeing part of Deathrow's face he both realized that A) He was fighting another astertes and B) The Alpha Legion is involved in the affair, which was probably unbenknownst to him. I reckon that realizing you have another astartes faction involved, specially the Alpha Legion, is reason enough to be alarmed and disengage to reconsider the situation. That's true, but he already knew the Word Bearers are involved, so I don't think he would freak out at learning there might be another interested chapter, but that still sounds logical. Also, Deathrow tackles him to the ground and they immediately come to close combat, so if he didn't know he was facing another Astartes as soon as he is taken to ground then I dunno. Demon Of The Fall fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jan 8, 2013 |
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Jan 8, 2013 19:58
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I somehow deleted a "yet" before "another" up there. The Word Bearers were a known quantity, but having assymetrical warfare experts also up in your grill is different. Also, I imagine that mutants with cybernetic implants would be quite capable of tackling a space marine; you gotta remember that the key of the astartes is a balance between form, function and training.
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Jan 8, 2013 20:12
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berzerkmonkey posted:Did anyone realize what Perturabo said in Angel Exterminatus? Just after the point where the Iron Hands overload their engines and blast through the Sisypheum, Perturabo is remembering when he and the other Primarchs had to climb up the Astartes staircase to prove their strength and worth to the Emperor before they are allowed to go out and join the Great Crusade. He mentions that some didn't make it, implying that the missing Primarchs never even made it to the point where they were part of the gang. Where was this in the book? I don't remember it at all. What was the Primarch staircase? Also I just realized why Alpharius and Omegon are so much smaller than the other primarchs: The primarchs were all probably supposed to be the same size originally, and Alpharius and Omegon are probably each about half that. It makes sense for 40k logic anyway, not actual genetics or anything like that.
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Jan 8, 2013 20:48
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I wonder if they could shove Roboute Guilliman in a dread shell? Come on, primach-dread to go with libarian dread!
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Jan 8, 2013 23:11
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VanSandman posted:Where was this in the book? I don't remember it at all. What was the Primarch staircase? Chapter 17: quote:Angel Exterminatus
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Jan 9, 2013 03:37
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bunnyofdoom posted:I wonder if they could shove Roboute Guilliman in a dread shell? Come on, primach-dread to go with libarian dread! In the second Horus book, where he's stabbed and dying, the A-Team of apothecaries had no idea what they were doing. I think it even goes to say that a primarch has organs that they never even heard of. So I don't think so. But on the subject of Guilliman, does it go into detail on how he died, aside from it was Fulgrim? Because maybe he is fine, and can heal from his slit throat if they let him out. Since, you know, Fulgrim's foot was burned off and then regrew. Also, I am almost done with that Ahriman: Exile book. Or whatever it is titled. Talk about a man with a guilty conscience. Impaired Casing fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Jan 9, 2013 |
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Jan 9, 2013 04:53
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berzerkmonkey posted:Sorry - it was the ascent up the staircase to the Astartes Tower to swear their oath of moment to the Emperor. Thanks for reminding me. I wouldn't say failure equals death. You think Angron wanted anything to do with that staircase? At best he probably would only attempt it if he got to attack the Emperor at the end. Seriously the Emperor's treatment of Angron is probably his biggest mistake as a God-Dad.
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Jan 9, 2013 10:48
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