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Wait. What? "No, no, no, that's not how it happened. Let's try that again." So basically, this entire section of the game is here to confuse the viewers further, since we learned very little that can be seen as absolutely reliable, and instead we go into the next scenario with (most likely) false preconceptions. Nice.
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Jan 9, 2013 13:23
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Anastasiya posted:Wait. What? Well as mentioned at the end of the update we still have an unlocked extra left, so we're not going into the next episode quite yet. The ending was certainly full of ambiguous/untrustworthy info though - it's completely obvious that the letter could have been written by pretty much anyone, for example, to the point where the game didn't even pretend otherwise.
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Jan 9, 2013 13:45
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It is curious how in all cases where multiple people were killed in the same room with line of sight to each other their faces are mangled (the children are affected by this as well, if I read the epilogue right). I'm convinced the culprit has a way to disable multiple people that is somehow evident on their faces. It didn't affect Maria, though, which puts it dangerously close to Oriental Poison territory.
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Jan 9, 2013 14:41
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I haven't had much to say before because I've already read the whole thing, including a chunk of the side material. So there isn't much I can say without being spoilery. But I'll say that while I overall like the old art better for its expressions, this is my first time seeing the whole thing with the new art, and I do like some of the new CGs. My favorite's probably that one of Maria standing there facing the wall (and my least favorite's the hugely overdone one of her creepy face). I've been enjoying seeing your theories and thoughts on this series, and I hope to see more of them. Above all, don't give up thinking.  And do relax and enjoy the ride.
Kaja Rainbow fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Jan 9, 2013 |
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Jan 9, 2013 14:45
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Shiny777 posted:And, the thing Maria was running up to was, ...the portrait's, ...subject. That doesn't follow. It just indicates that there's a person who looks like the portrait.
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Jan 9, 2013 15:20
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TheDavies posted:That doesn't follow. It just indicates that there's a person who looks like the portrait. Yup, and this is our confirmation that that person exists (even if they're not a sparkly witch).
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Jan 9, 2013 16:24
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TheDavies posted:That doesn't follow. It just indicates that there's a person who looks like the portrait. Yes, so "Beatrice" exists. We now know that there was, in fact, 19th person called Beatrice on the island. Genji did not disguise as Beatrice etc. And that means that all the crimes could be done with mundane means, as there was always 1 person without an alibi.
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Jan 9, 2013 16:26
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Jackster posted:Yes, so "Beatrice" exists. We now know that there was, in fact, 19th person called Beatrice on the island. Genji did not disguise as Beatrice etc. Actually it doesn't prove anything since it's still possible that it's someone of the first 6 disguised. You're drawing the opposite conclusion you should be.
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Jan 9, 2013 16:43
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Xoidanor posted:Actually it doesn't prove anything since it's still possible that it's someone of the first 6 disguised. You're drawing the opposite conclusion you should be.
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Jan 9, 2013 16:50
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So if I am reading this right. All the events of the first chapter were just the contents of a letter that Maria sent and said to be what happened on the island. Which means nothing that we saw is reliable.
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Jan 9, 2013 17:21
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That would be odd considering we have been watching from multiple POVs which Maria either didn't hear about or wasn't present for.
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Jan 9, 2013 17:25
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Xoidanor posted:That would be odd considering we have been watching from multiple POVs which Maria either didn't hear about or wasn't present for. That's why I said nothing is reliable as she was not around for most of the events. If this was just part of a letter she sent out before her death every event she was not there for can be taken into question and every event she was there for can be taken into question because Maria is not someone I would rely on to tell a true story.
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Jan 9, 2013 17:29
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What's weird about picking only one of the 4 treasures, is why didn't they pick the resurrection of everyone? That was an option, why did they each pick only one? I suppose that the lost love option might also make that person fall in love with the picker. I mean Maria wanted her mother to love her, so it's understandable (from a child's point of view) that she would pick that. Jessica could have been scared that Kanon didn't love her, but that rather selfish to only bring him back. But why would George pick that? He knew that Shannon loved him. Oh well. (And Battler didn't get to pick! Ha ha!)
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Jan 9, 2013 17:39
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Yay everyone's dead.  Next comes the tea party. In Higurashi, after the horrible murder endings of the first four episodes, there was a "wrap party". A silly little fourth wall breaking thing in which the characters discussed how they could avoid this bad ending.
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Jan 9, 2013 18:33
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Vyxzuw posted:Oh well. (And Battler didn't get to pick! Ha ha!) Of course he didn't. Witches don't exist, silly. 
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Jan 9, 2013 20:54
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MonsterEnvy posted:Maria is not someone I would rely on to tell a true story. Except she was proven totally right. Who gave her the letter and umbrella? Beatrice. Who killed them all? Beatrice. Who set the letter down? Obviously Beatrice. Maria's the only sane person on this island.
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Jan 9, 2013 23:24
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MonsterEnvy posted:So if I am reading this right. All the events of the first chapter were just the contents of a letter that Maria sent and said to be what happened on the island. Which means nothing that we saw is reliable.  Maria.What's really interesting is that random POV switch into third-person omniscient when Battler is breaking down the door, when before and afterwards, it was all from his perspective. I'm sure it has something to do with this. Oh well, looking forward to the tea party.
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Jan 10, 2013 02:57
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Dr Pepper posted:Except she was proven totally right. It was clearly Kinzo in a wig.
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Jan 10, 2013 03:01
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The track "Maria's Song" in the last update won't play for me. http://tindeck.com/listen/hlga
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Jan 10, 2013 03:11
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LeeDless posted:The track "Maria's Song" in the last update won't play for me. Ditto. I'm starting to suspect some form of drugging or hypnosis is now happening here. Natshui blew her own head off, and when Battler had the gun there were one or two lines mentioning him looking down the barrel of the gun which I choose to take in the "looking at the exit-hole" manner and not the "aiming the gun" manner as it supports my ridiculous hypothesis. I'm almost positive there is a ton of really important foreshadowing in this update and the episode as a whole that I'm missing and I'm really gonna kick myself later.
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Jan 10, 2013 04:10
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Take the "Maria running up to someone by the portrait" like this: it could easily be someone dressed up as Beatrice. Which means there is a 19th person X on the island or one of the people who died was faking it.
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Jan 10, 2013 06:56
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Vyxzuw posted:What's weird about picking only one of the 4 treasures, is why didn't they pick the resurrection of everyone? That was an option, why did they each pick only one? I think Battler picks resurrecting everyone which leads to all the other episodes.
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Jan 10, 2013 07:07
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The GIG posted:It was clearly Kinzo in a wig. You laugh, but I am seriously convinced this is essentially what is going on.
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Jan 10, 2013 16:04
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The problem with Kinzo-in-a-wig (aside from how hilarious and improbable that would be) is that Natsuhi probably wouldn't react the way she did to "Beatrice" if that were the case. Her tone implies that at the very least, "Beatrice" is someone she wouldn't hand the reins of the Ushiromiya family to without a fight. But with everyone presumed dead, it's hard to point fingers any which way at the moment. Guess I'll sit back and wait for the tea party.
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Jan 10, 2013 16:35
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On the other hand, all we know about Natsuhi is that she read a letter (which we don't get to read) and shot herself afterwards. The confrontation can all be in her mind and it is the letter which drove her to commit suicide. I wonder how will the tea party change the whole thing. If everybody is revived, wouldn't it be conclusive evidence that a witch exists and Battler should give up there and then?
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Jan 11, 2013 03:24
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Maybe the witch thing is a red herring and the real objective is to loop until they follow the epithet, find the gold, and manage to save everyone.  Battler can still acknowledge Beatrice exists while claiming it was one of the 18 was responsible for the murders, as much as he doesn't want to.Edit: I like the Battler revives everyone theory though but that basically is an admission of defeat. Mecca-Benghazi fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Jan 11, 2013 |
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Jan 11, 2013 08:13
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Autumncomet posted:Edit: I like the Battler revives everyone theory though but that basically is an admission of defeat. We all hope Battler doesn't do anything stu--- who am I kidding.
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Jan 15, 2013 08:51
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I'd like it if the witch was a red herring, or at least not the one who actively kills people, because otherwise any suspicions or deductions come to a halt, since she can do literal magic: locked door? gently caress that, magical entry. Many people in the room? Eh, Beatrice magically kills all of them in a flash. Natsuhi has a gun? She magically shots herself. People gather weapons to strike a physical entity? Nah, Beatrice changes into a clouds of butterflies and fucks off. There is something enticing about a story which cannot end in any way but with our protagonists' deaths, but I hope there is more to that VN than that.
Szurumbur fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Jan 15, 2013 |
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Jan 15, 2013 10:29
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Part Twenty-Three: gently caress Your Invisible Sky Witch    As someone else already said in the thread, the tea parties are basically the same as the wrap parties from (the first half of) Higurashi. Little non-canon bits with the characters cheerfully breaking the fourth wall and discussing the horrible end they just met.  : "Uu-. Definitely a bad ending. Uu-." : "That's right. Beatrice's letter, which Maria-chan read on the first day, did tell us in advance to solve the riddle of the epitaph. We were all so busy trying to protect ourselves and look for the culprit that we didn't even take a shot at it." : "...That's right. If we had actually tried to solve the riddle, I'm sure things would have ended differently."  : "Speaking of a horrible fate, Shannon beats the rest of us hands down, doesn't she? She was such a beautiful character, so I thought she'd definitely survive until the very end, but she was killed right in the beginning, and on top of that...what was it? Half of her face was smashed, right? That's the worst!" : "...That was my role, so, umm...there was no way around it..." : "...Nee-san, it's nothing for you to worry about. Judging by the last epilogue, even Milady and the rest of them met an extremely tragic end.": "Ahahaha..., it seems so. I think I remember seeing this horrible picture, kind of like my entire body had been eaten apart and dismembered." : "Speaking of which, don't you think Kanon's last moments were the coolest? Even though he had the tables turned on him, it was a showdown with the culprit, right? It's a whole bunch better than our confusing last moments, ri~ght?": "...Though, in the end, I was unable to get a solid hit in." : "...I don't wanna believe it, but that does prove the culprit was a witch calling herself Beatrice." : "That's right... There were many strange things that happened...which a human couldn't do...": "Uu-. Only a witch could do things like murdering Eva oba-san in that closed room. A human couldn't do it! Uu-!": "...Not only is the existence of a 19th person clear, but it is also obvious that this person holds a power that humans can't even imagine.": "In that case, I don't think there's anything wrong with calling this person Beatrice.": "...We probably met at the very end. ...Met with the Golden Witch.": "Like Maria kept saying, Beatrice exists. It all went bad because no one ever believed. Uu-! Even one of her witch friends says that miracles won't occur if you don't believe. Uu-!": "That's right. Beatrice-sama is generous to those who respect her." You might have noticed, by the way, that despite the listed wishes Rosa is nowhere to be found in all this. Apparently the bit about reviving lost love doesn't come packaged with an actual resurrection, and the “souls of all the dead” choice really only brings back one person. Such a goddamn ripoff. : "...Beatrice-sama probably had her reasons.": "If the song of the epitaph represented Beatrice-sama's resurrection ceremony, many sacrifices were needed. ...He must simply have been designated to be one of those.": "...Shannon-chan, you met a horrible end... At the very least, I wish your death could have been more peaceful and pretty.": "...Umm, well, ...it's not like it hurt... Anyways, right now, I'm perfectly fine, so don't worry."After seeing him stroke Shannon's cheek, which had been crushed during the story, everyone laughed out loud, smiling.  : "Well, it feels a bit weird saying this, ...but I was sure this story would be in the standard mystery genre. I'm a little surprised to find out that it's fantasy. After all, a western-style mansion shut away on an isolated island, in a world revolving around some inheritance...it sounds just like a mystery novel to me." : "...Uu-. I-t's not fantasy! Beatrice 'exi-sts'! Uu-.": "...Yes, we understand. Beatrice-sama does 'exist'." : "Many things happened that would be impossible for humans. During the story, I thought of all kinds of things, trying to deny that. ...Now I can say it clearly. Each one of them, all of them, were crimes impossible for a human. ...Those crimes would be impossible to carry out unless it was the witch Beatrice using all of the power magic could provide.": "The culprit was a witch. That point is perfectly clear. Long live Beatrice. Hahahahahaha.": "Uu-. Everyone believed. Maria's happy. Uu-!": "...Gods and witches might seem terrifying to people who are frightened of them, but I think they must be affectionate to people who believe in and respect them.": "...I think you're right." : "Hahahahaha... Everyone ignored that letter during the story.": "...Even though it was thrust right in front of us, we almost completely ignored it. I kind of feel sorry for Beatrice-sama.": "I have a memo with the epitaph on it! Let's all solve it, let's all solve it...!":"This story probably went wrong ever since that time.": "...That may be so. Maybe we should have tried solving the epitaph's riddle from the beginning, like Beatrice said.": "Well, it's a little late now. Even so, let's try solving it now and see if the witch forgives us. Let's go, let's try to solve the riddle of the epitaph. ...It was something like, 'my beloved hometown, the sweetfish river running through it'..."Maria put her notebook on the table, and opened to the page where the epitaph was written. While everyone stared at it, they got really into it as they started guessing this and that about the riddle. Surrounded by the smell of the black tea and the freshly baked vanilla cookies, they spent the time comfortably and happily...  But Battler spoke in a way that cut through the conversation. His expression looked a little unhappy. What could he not like about all of this fun?  : "...I've been listening to you guys for a while. Why did you all stop thinking? Why are you so sure that the witch was behind all of this? ...Don't you realize something like that can't exist?"It's a bit late to deny that, isn't it? You met her. And none of you survived. With just those words, ...the happy atmosphere surrounding the tea party evaporated in an instant. George and Jessica. And Shannon and Kanon. And Maria. ...All of them stared blankly, wondering what in the world Battler was talking about. Even the foolish, arrogant Battler realized that he hadn't chosen his words well.   : "I..., I'm the one who doesn't have a clue what you guys are talking about! Isn't it obvious that humans committed these crimes? There's no way something like a witch exists, right...?": "Th, ...then...what about when I was killed in the storehouse, and something horrible was done to half of my face? ...If the culprit was human, how could they have accomplished it...?": "...That's, ...well, it's hard to imagine how they did something that awful. But that was the rose garden storehouse, right? I'm sure there were plenty of weird tools in there. Let's say they used some electrical tools like a grinder or an electric saw.": "...Th, ...that's..., ...umm..." : "Then, Battler... How do you explain Grandfather's disappearance from the closed room of his study...? Even though the door was sealed, Grandfather unexpectedly disappeared, right...?"  : "In that case, Battler-kun, how do you explain the way my parents were killed in the guest room? The door was sealed by the lock and the chain. Naturally, the window was sealed too. How would you suggest a human could have killed my parents?": "...Well, ...we did have to leave that trick alone during the story. Anyways, there's at least a good chance that the culprit had the key. And it was possible to look in through the crack of the door that the chain allowed. ...It's really painful to talk about it, but it is possible that some device was used through that crack. ...Like maybe they stuck something through the crack...? ...Hmmmm, well, even though the chain is incredibly simple, it's a big factor in setting up the closed room... ...However, there's probably some closed room trick they could have used. If you bought some closed room mystery novels from the bookstore, you could probably find some trick that would fit perfectly. ...Anyways, I can't think of one now...but I claim that there's nothing humans can't do if they try hard enough.": "Isn't that argument horribly irrational...? It's just ridiculous to claim that it's possible for a human to do something, even though you can't explain how...": "...Why is that ridiculous? Why did all of you stop thinking? Even something that looks impossible has to be doable. Doesn't it always work like that?" : "Battler, you're the one being ridiculous. ...If you think a human could've done it, try explaining how. You can't, can you?" : "And you're okay with saying the culprit is a witch just because I can't explain it? With that argument, all of the unsolved crimes in the world could be resolved by saying a witch is the culprit!": "...Battler, you're sidestepping the issue, and you aren't explaining anything. ...We are saying 'A human can't do it. Therefore the culprit is something that isn't human. And that something is a witch.' And yet you keep arbitrarily deciding that witches are impossible even though you can't explain anything. : "...Th, ...that kind of argument kinda pisses me off. So this is basically what you're trying to say. ...If I can't explain how a human could do it, I must accept that the culprit is a witch?"  : "...Battler-sama. When I died in the boiler room, I was killed by a 19th person who shouldn't exist. ...Can you explain how a human could have done that? At that time, the locations of the 18 were well known. Even so, I was killed.": "We talked about that in the story as well, right...?! Kumasawa baa-chan, for example. She said that she followed right after you and headed down to the boiler room, but we can't know for sure whether that was a lie. For all we know, she might have entered the boiler room with you and caught you by surprise! Or maybe, when you stepped into the boiler room, you activated some kind of trap, one that might have been set up to hit you with one of those icepicks. After all, the stink of Grandfather's body was coming from the incinerator. That's because someone had come there before, and if they had just set up a trap, it's certainly possible that the culprit could stay away from that place and use the time of Kanon-kun's death to create an alibi...!": "...You talk about a trap in the boiler room...but what kind of trap could it be?" : "That's right. Following his death, everyone immediately ran over to the boiler room. But we didn't find any kind of weird device, did we?!": "...That is correct. Battler-sama, what kind of trap could I have been killed with...?" : "...Battler...Has your head been, umm, ...feeling alright...?": "...Umm, ...should I bring some cold drinks...?" : "D, don't look at me with those pitying eyes...I'm not saying something that crazy, right? I'm just pointing out that it would be possible if you could think of the trick, alright? Look, isn't one of the fallbacks in mystery stories that the victims aren't really dead!?": "Fallback...?": "I, in other words, when Kanon-kun was killed, we really did know for sure where the rest of us were. And let's assume that Kumasawa baa-chan wasn't lying. But that only holds true for the survivors. ...What if the culprit pretended to be dead, placed themselves together along with the real victims to hide themselves, and then acted on their own later? Everything would be explained!": "...Huh...? So are you trying to say that Eva oba-san or one of the rest of them was the culprit...? But didn't Doctor Nanjo confirm everyone's death as a doctor?": "...That's right. Doctor Nanjo checked all of the victims. ...Battler-sama, for your theory to work, wouldn't Doctor Nanjo have one of the culprits too?": "Uh, yeah, that's right!! Once you consider that Doctor Nanjo might have been one of the culprits and faked the proclamation of death, the whole story changes...! See, that's also a fallback in mystery novels, isn't it?!!" : "...But Doctor Nanjo was also killed, right...?" But his face was smashed. Completely. Same for the other two. That's...pretty conclusively fatal if the body was real. And it seems kind of pointless to bother setting up a fake corpse that late, considering that if they had, they did it like. 10 minutes before they just went ahead and massacred everyone else anyway. Oh, and whoever it was was recognized as Beatrice, so that...really probably rules out Nanjo. Kumasawa, maybe, Genji, sure, but no way could Nanjo pull that off. : "...I think that it would have been hard for the six of us who died in the beginning to do that... ...After all, the shutter was closed, ...and there was a padlock that couldn't have been opened from the inside...": "That's right. Mom was holding onto that key. So was Mom one of the culprits too?" : "...Aaaaaaah, wait a sec, ..., maybe it was impossible for the first six, but in the case of Aniki's parents, the door was only locked on the outside. So they could have opened it from the inside...That's right, after we left the room, maybe they jumped out the window and got to the boiler room first! Is, ...is that too much...?! Or maybe Doctor Nanjo made a mistake with the autopsy?! Look, he said it himself, right? He said autopsies have a large chance at a wrong diagnosis! If you disguised it well enough or prepared a substitute body, you could fake your own death!! Let's leave the method or trick they used for later...and you see, it's not that hard to deny a 19th person existed, right?! Much less a witch, right? At least that much is completely impossible!!"Kind of hard to be wrong in guessing a death when they've got goddamn drills rammed into their foreheads, one would think.  : "That's not it... It's just, uh, I can't easily accept that a 19th person existed...and even if one did, I think we should construct our argument from the point of view that the culprit was a human. I'll only accept that it's a witch in desperation, at the very end, after everything else has been disproved. There's no way witches exist, right?! Why has everyone been casually accepting that the culprit was a witch? I think it's great how your family love makes you hate the thought that someone close to you is a murderer. But is it alright to let that fool you?! Don't you want to find the detestable culprit who killed so many people?! Aniki, don't you want to avenge your parents?! Jessica, don't you want to avenge Kanon-kun, and Kanon-kun, don't you want to avenge Shannon-chan?! Shannon-chan, you should at least want to know who it was that killed you. Why has everyone totally surrendered and decided that the culprit was a witch?! What's wrong with all of you?!"The foolish and short-tempered Battler tried to force his ignorance on the others and yelled at them. ...However, everyone just looked at him pityingly, silently watching over him. At that time, the wise Maria laughed and pointed out Battler's mistake.   : “...What I want to know, Battler, is this. Why don't you believe in Beatrice? She exists, so why don't you believe?": "Because she doesn't 'exist'! Witches don't 'exist'!! There's no way!!"...It was almost like a spoiled child who just doesn't want to accept something. The pitying gazes quietly closed in around Battler, but they didn't reach his stubborn heart. : "...Aren't you acting just like an unmanageable spoiled child?": "...Battler-sama, I understand your feelings, but...": "...Beatrice does 'exist'.":"Battler-kun..., why don't you believe? Even though there's so much proof." : "...Ki, hihihihihihihihihihihi. Well, ...unsurprisingly, it looks like you alone won't believe no matter what, Battler. ...If even a single person doesn't believe, the 'miracle' won't occur. ...So, if you don't rethink your ignorant theories, the miracle, ...the magic won't be completed." : "...Why?": "Sorry, but why don't you let me turn the chessboard over one last time...? If you want to force me to accept that there's a witch, there's a really easy way. ...And it's not the indirect way of saying 'humans can't do it so it must be a witch'! All you have to do is show me that a witch did it with magic. Furthermore, what Maria said earlier is what will really dig her grave. ...You said that if even one person doesn't believe, a 'miracle' won't occur. But real miracles happen whether people believe in them or not! Even if I alone don't believe!! So any miracles or magic or witches that exist only because I believe in them are downright lies!!": "…"The uneasy mood following Battler's ignorant rant...was blown away by a very soft and light laugh. Whose laugh...? Battler was surprised. He had never heard that voice before. When he looked at George and Jessica, at Shannon and Kanon and Maria, he noticed that they had suddenly gone respectfully silent.  (Click to finally properly meet Beatrice)   And so it pulls the bait and switch. The tea parties are actually part of the plot after all. ...How the earlier fourth wall breaking fits with that is a question I can offer no answer to. : "Wh, ...Who, ...are you...?" : "...Don't you even know the host of the tea party you were invited to? ...Simply wonderful. *cackle*cackle*...!": "...This is the Golden Witch who has lived for a thousand years, Beatrice-sama.": "I am honored to see you, Beatrice-sama...": "...Please forgive Battler-kun's ranting.": "Th, this guy's just stubborn, and, umm, he still doesn't understand the situation he's in...!" : "*cackle*cackle*cackle*... How very wonderful. ...After a thousand years, most witches get tired of living. How nice it is to meet a man with backbone such as yourself every once in a while.": "...It is quite an honor to be present when Beatrice shows herself, Battler." : "...Heh, ...heh-heh-heh-heh!! How, ...astonishing. ...Are you really that desperate to make me believe that a witch, ...that a 19th person is the culprit...? This is starting to get interesting...! And it's all useless...!! You must be the illusion that they all claim is the witch Beatrice.  : "I've got no clue what you're saying, ihihi! It's very kind of you to go to all of the trouble of showing yourself to us, but I don't believe you exist in the slightest. It's true that many strange things happened during those two days. Like Maria said earlier, even though I think that all of the tricks could be explained, I still can't lay out the practical details of each one. However, that doesn't mean that I'll surrender. I'm different from the rest of them, you see? I'll never argue that it was the work of a witch just because I can't explain it.": "This keeps getting more interesting. Making you surrender will be worth my time...You're just the kind of man I'd like to force into praising my name... I'd love to try making a man like you kiss my toes. ...*cackle*cackle*cackle*!": "If you want to talk nonsense, talk all you want...! I deny you exist. All of the events can be explained with 'human tricks'...!! There's no room for even a speck of magic or witches!!": "Wonderful! ...This is the perfect form on diversion from a thousand years of boredom. Then let me ask you. A short while ago, you said that using the crack in the door would be sufficient to kill Eva and Hideyoshi, right...? Explain how they could have been killed using some human trick." With a shake of her golden pipe, seven colors of gentle smoke trailed out of the end. ...The smoke quickly obscured the surroundings, ...and they were suddenly in the hallway of the mansion.   : "...N, nice trick...": "Alright. Show me what you would do through this small crack, Battler.": "Erk, ...th, they probably had some device to shoot those 'icepicks'. If they used that...": "How would they reach Eva over on the bed when you can't see that far through this crack? ...And how would they reach Hideyoshi, in the bathroom with the door shut...?": "...drat, ...There's a crack... There should be some way...": "*cackle*cackle*. If you can't think of one, allow me." : "How nice, how nice. What a charming man. ...That will make it even more fun to force him into submission.": "...Heh! You really want to make me kiss your toes that much...!? Only if I surrender! But watch...I'll definitely expose this trick, and then I'll make you kiss my rear end instead!" Paying no mind to Battler's worthless ranting, Beatrice once again shook the golden pipe. ...That's right, that golden pipe was her precious magic cane. : "Come, arise, children. I am the guide of Purgatory. Forgive the deadly sins and hold the seven stakes."Guided by those magic words, which sounded like a command, seven stakes gathered. ...They were the stakes of the seven demons symbolizing the deadly sins of sinful people. : "Beelzebub and Asmodeus. Come, forgive the sins. Release the spirits of the sinners...!": "Wha...?!"The picks of Beelzebub and Asmodeus responded to Beatrice's call. The two stakes of the demons were sucked in through the crack of the door, like billiard balls struck by a cue stick. Then, several scattered noises refracted through the wall, making a sound like a woodpecker. And at the end, a pleasant sound could be heard.   So this is another instance where the clanging noise the stakes make should have shown up. I went through all three folders of sound effects with a program the files all worked in and...I can't find it. It looks like it's just straight up not in there and I have no idea what the gently caress. I guess I can resort to trying to record it straight from the game at some point, though Tindeck seems to dislike that option even when the resulting file's the right type considering the odd issue with Maria's Song. : "...Right down the middle. Want to see...?"They had definitely heard two sounds like someone's forehead being split open. Battler wasn't permitted to see it, since he was on the other side of the door, but those two had died again, and this second time, they lay not an inch apart from where they had lain the last time, with the exact same blood-spray as before. : "Y, ...you moron... Th, ...that's insane...! Y, you think you can just kill them like that?!!!": "I can kill them. ...I can kill them just like this...! *cackle*cackle*cackle*!" (Click to see everything go horribly wrong. Or, well. Moreso.)  If memory serves, standard etiquette dictates that if the host does not offer use of their bleeding room, one is to step (or possibly crawl, as necessary) outside with a minimum of fuss, while attempting to avoid staining the host's carpet. In the autumn and winter months, the host is expected to offer them a coat on which the stains will not be readily visible. I think, at least. I'd double check, but I'm not sure I want to know what Google would give me if I ran a search for “bleeding etiquette.” Satan's stake was buried deep into Kanon's chest. : "...u, ...gah...": "K, ...Kanon-kun..., Kanon-kun!! D, ...drat iiiiiiiiiit!!"Battler was the only one getting agitated. George, Jessica, Shannon...everyone else was meekly hanging their heads like students being yelled at by their teacher.  : "B, ...Beatrice-sama... Please, forgive him... I think Kanon-kun has repented enough...!": "Wonderful. I am generous to those who respect me. ...*cackle*cackle*...!": "Don't screw with me!!! Do you think I'll accept your existence because of this cheap play?! Like hell you're a thousand year old witch! Your tricks aren't a thousand years old, they're just the accumulation of one hundred years of fallbacks from the mystery world! There's no such thing as magic!! Definitely!! All of the crimes can be explained with 'human tricks'!!"You know, Battler, she just rewound time and teleported you all back to the mansion (and then back to Purgatorio) and then killed two people with flying homing drill things. You saw that happen. And you're not even trying to pull Clarke's Third Law on it or anything.  : "...nn, ...u, ...u..."Shannon started moaning, holding her cheek. ...Maybe she had a toothache. But it didn't look anything like a toothache. ...A slight redness spread across the cheek Shannon was holding. It looked like that redness was causing Shannon unbearable pain... Her fingers were pressing in against her cheek, and drops of sweat appeared all over her body...  It expanded rapidly, covering half of Shannon's face... ...Then, the stupid dunce Battler finally realized...  And it turns out Maria was, in fact, right about Beatrice's magic requiring belief to work at full capacity. Unfortunately, that magic is all that's been keeping everyone alive... For the first time in his life, ...Battler heard that sound, like a pomegranate splitting.   : "U, uwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Shannon, Shannon!! Uwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!" : "D..., da da da, drat it, drat iiiiiiiiiiit! Stop it, stop it, stop it!! Don't humiliate the dead, don't humiliate the deeeeeaaaaad!!": "Uuuu, ...gah, ...eeeggh!!"This time, the redness spread across George's entire body... It was like the beautiful cloud drawn by milk when it is poured into black tea. It spread out and extended across his entire body. ...As it did, it seemed to give George increasingly greater pain.   : "Gah, ...eeh, ...ack, ...hh!!": "S, stop it, stop it, stop it!!! What did Aniki do, what did Jessica do, just STOP IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!!!": "B, ...Battler..., ...d, ...don't let the witch, ...break your spirit...! ...Deny her, erase her... A, ...as long as at least one person denies her, she's an illusion that can't exist...! Aaaaahhhh, gghhh!!": "A, are you alright, Jessica?!! Whaa, A, Aniki?!?!"   : "I revive all the dead with my magic. ...But as long as you don't believe, that magic will hold no true power. *cackle*cackle*cackle*! But I'm sure that a man like yourself won't surrender to something like this, right...?": "B, ...Battler...! We, ...didn't want to doubt our friends... We refused to face reality, ...and gave in to the witch...! But, ...Battler, you won't...won't, ...give in to the witch...! Geh, ggghh, ...gggggghhkkkkkkk!!!": "Jessica, Jessicaaaaaaa, waaaaAAAAAAAaaaAAAahh!!"Poor Jessica met the same end. ...Just like George, she ended up like a butcher's leftovers. George and Jessica were now so destroyed, melted and mixed up, it was impossible to tell them apart. : "...Battler. Don't cry. ...Beatrice will restore the dead over and over. So there's nothing to be sad about...So, ...even if we die, we're still, ...just..., fine..."The redness began eating into the whole of Maria's body... The foolish Battler watched and screamed. Aaaand everyone's dead. Again. Because Battler insists on finding an alternative explanation for their deaths.   : “I won't forgive, I won't forgive, I definitely won't forgive you!! You'll regret making me, Ushiromiya Battler, your enemy!! I'll deny you no matter what!! No matter how baffling things get, it can all be explained by 'humans'!!! I'll erase every cell of you from this world!!!": "Well said, Battler...! That's the kind of thing that can divert me from my thousand years of boredom! Come, explain. Try explaining it all with 'human tricks'! And learn how lowly humans are!! Let's see if what humanity has built up in a hundred years can oppose my thousand years!! That's what will make forcing you to submit so pleasant...!! So tell me, Battler! What about Maria's letter? How the six were killed? The shutter? The receipt's seal? The closed room with the chain? Kanon in the boiler room? Genji and the others in the lounge?! Natsuhi's suicide?! The riddle of the epitaph?! The location of the hidden gold?!”   And so begins Umineko proper, as Battler starts attempting to find non-magical solutions to the murders and argue Beatrice out of existence.  And then the credits roll, but they are profoundly uninteresting, just a bunch of (mostly moonspeak) names on black while Prison Strip keeps playing. If you want a very brief glimpse, there's a couple seconds of them at the end of the second video that got left in because of technical issues. The only really notable thing is that there's a gunshot at the start, and a second at the end. Is this relevant to anything? Maybe.  Oh, hey, look, another unlock. This time for the ??? section. Yeah, there's still more to come before we're done here. That's as far as it goes though, next update really will be the end of Ep1.  And the profiles have been updated to account for the last four deaths. Apparently after the point where the last update cut off, Beatrice called up a bunch of demons to mob them.   Despite being red here, and having similarly fatal-looking wounds, Battler didn't (re-)die horribly like everyone else when the magic stopped working, did he? Odd, that.   And Beatrice's profile is added as well. Next time: A Miracle
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Jan 15, 2013 11:33
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Autumncomet posted:Maybe the witch thing is a red herring and the real objective is to loop until they follow the epithet, find the gold, and manage to save everyone. That is not necessary though. Consider the arguments of Beatrice and Battler: Beatrice: A 19th person, who is also a witch, murdered everybody Battler: There is no 19th person. One of the 18 persons, who is not a witch, murdered everyone else However, "there is (not) a 19th person" and "the culprit is (not) a witch" are separate statements, so there are other possibilities such as: 1. A 19th person, who is not a witch, murdered everybody 2. One of the 18 persons is a witch and murdered everybody magically 3. There is a 19th person who is a witch, but the culprit is one of the 18 who murdered everyone with non-magic means and so on. Alternative 1 is not as impossible as it seems; with such a dysfunctional family, it is quite possible that there is a family member who get locked up like the eponymous character in Ayako. This can also explain the strange happenings as told by the servants. EDIT: Didn't notice the new update. I wonder how would the arguments work. Jeek fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Jan 15, 2013 |
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Jan 15, 2013 11:43
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For all its flaws the tea-party is one thing I think the anime did much better. Despite being almost exactly as long it doesn't feel as drawn out. It's also much more eery since the anime throws you right into it immediately and everyone is strangely ok about their fates.
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Jan 15, 2013 12:13
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Shiny777 posted:So this is another instance where the clanging noise the stakes make should have shown up. I went through all three folders of sound effects with a program the files all worked in and...I can't find it. It looks like it's just straight up not in there and I have no idea what the gently caress. I guess I can resort to trying to record it straight from the game at some point, though Tindeck seems to dislike that option even when the resulting file's the right type considering the odd issue with Maria's Song. I'm afraid the series of clangs is actually made up of three sound effects (金属パイプを叩く音.wav, 金属パイプを叩く音B.wav and 金属パイプを叩く音C.wav in the SE folder) being played rapidly and repeatedly, so I don't think you'd be able to easily reproduce it without recording the game audio.
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Jan 15, 2013 15:21
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And everybody is dead, MK2. But this episode doesn't end here till we have that last part updated, and you will know why when it gets posted. Also, we get to know who is Beatrice and how she does her work... and how Battler likes doing his'.
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Jan 15, 2013 20:33
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For the most part, the tea party wasn't really breaking the fourth wall. They don't address the player and say you ran out of time, but saying it's like we ran out time (we being them.) That's certainly leaning on the wall though. Except for Kanon's mention of an epilogue which is breaking the fourth wall. The funny thing about the logic that the witch did it is this: The witch is killing people to be revived. But if she's killing people, then doesn't that mean she isn't dead? Heck, she even appeared to Maria at the beginning, so it's not like she can't interact with people. Not that that would help Battler. If the ritual is real, then it doesn't matter who does it. It would revive Beatrice, and Battler does want to acknowledge her existence. So he has to disprove magic completely, not just Beatrice and the ritual.
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Jan 15, 2013 20:42
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And here we go! The wrap parties in Higurashi were inspired by the Teach Me Ciel-Sensei and Tiger Dojo segments in Tsukihime and Fate/Stay Night. Higurashi liked to present itself like a more standard VN, in which characters could make choices to avoid the horrid bad ends, even though they were linear. Umineko starting with this pretty cleverly threw past readers of Higurashi off, since, after all, they weren't expecting the plot to continue during what's supposed to be a silly no-forth wall segment. Also, random fact, the ??? wasn't automatically unlocked in the original. You had to do a little trick to unlock it.
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Jan 15, 2013 20:59
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This event was one of two thing I knew about coming into this. The Meta World were Battler and Beatrice argue if the events could have been done with Magic or not. The other thing I knew was that the Meta world story wise may or may not exist.
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Jan 15, 2013 21:13
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Jeek: Oh, yeah, there could definitely be a 19th person. I would bet, after seeing the update, that one of the loops deals with this possibility. Now, would Beatrice consider finding the gold/solving the epithet an acknowledgement of her existence or not? 
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Jan 15, 2013 22:32
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MonsterEnvy posted:This event was one of two thing I knew about coming into this. The Meta World were Battler and Beatrice argue if the events could have been done with Magic or not. The other thing I knew was that the Meta world story wise may or may not exist. It's actually really hard to talk about the rest of the series without spoiling this Tea Party, and thus the major twist of Episode 1. Other spoilers can be avoided, but the mere fact that the base concept of Umineko No Naku Koro Ni is "A guy argues with a witch that she doesn't exist" means that this one is hard.
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Jan 16, 2013 00:37
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I really like how they set up the tea party. The beginning makes you think its some weird, non-canon, comedy wrapup thing. Then it slowly gets more and more serious until you realize what's happening is very important.
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Jan 16, 2013 01:15
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:08 |
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From the first page.Kaboom Dragoon posted:Yeah, the remade art is better, but the original art has a charm in a way. Especially the MADNESS FACES both this and Higurashi are famed for. That, and one particular character's expression, which can only be described as 'trollface' (seriously, it's uncanny).  Glad I can finally post this.
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Jan 16, 2013 01:30
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