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raditts posted:What is the elec cheat? Fire a weapon. Once it causes damage to an enemy, hit the select button. (That's the pause button that doesn't bring up the items.) If you got the timing right, once you unpause the weapon does damage again. This can be done many times if you're good. The elec beam is the best item to do this with because it's the longest horizontally. It's almost a requirement for the Yellow Devil. It's weakness shows up very briefly.
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Jan 12, 2013 00:38
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 13:52 |
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It's also the best weapon since Thunder Beam is his weakpoint anyway. And I've beaten Yellow Devil without it, since you don't really have a choice on the PS1 or Anniversary Collection. It just means you have to die over and over again until you memorize the specific pattern you have to jump in to dodge him. 
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Jan 12, 2013 00:49
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Volt Catfish posted:If you constantly press start after using Thunder Beam, it'll "activate" Thunder Beam on every frame or something, yeah? Select. I buster duel yellow devil though. Mega Man 3 I hard punch though. I can dodge him most of the time but buster duel is too much of a pain.
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Jan 12, 2013 00:54
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greatn posted:Select. Yeah, my bad. I have never beaten Mega Man 1 not anime-fied.
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Jan 12, 2013 00:59
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MM1 Devil is pretty bad, but has a major upside: Once you do have its pattern memorized (and really, it's not THAT long of a chain; I suck incredibly at pure memorization, but can do it relatively well), it's disgustingly simple. The major trick you can do is jump over two at once at one point in the loop, then it's really trivial. MM5 Devil on the other hand? For me, the most impossible boss in the entire series. Including bullshit like Nightmare Mother from X6. You could cheese that atrocity, but there's no way to cheese the Black Devil. You just have to deal with a fight that is probably a solid 5 minutes of dodging poo poo, the last minute of which has high-damage attacks that come out of nowhere and which you can't really practice for, as you have to wade through an ocean of rear end (and black blocks) before, and which will probably oneshot you. gently caress this rear end in a top hat, I have never done it without savestating like a motherfucker because I'm insanely bad at devils in the first place, when they require memorization, but when they require pure reflexes I suck even more. Arrrgh I can't concentrate for 5 minutes at a time on just jumping at the exact right time, it's like doing the jump rope challenge in Final Fantasy 9.
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Jan 12, 2013 01:14
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Devils really are the worst. For as much as I like to defend Megaman 9, I totally menu cheese through the Devil in that one to activate multiple black holes per vulnerability period.
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Jan 12, 2013 01:37
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Bonaventure posted:Devils really are the worst. For as much as I like to defend Megaman 9, I totally menu cheese through the Devil in that one to activate multiple black holes per vulnerability period.  .
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Jan 12, 2013 01:39
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Simply Simon posted:Guess why I still haven't finished that game I "beat" them by using 6 e tanks 
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Jan 12, 2013 01:40
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Gammatron 64 posted:X5 was just an awful, lovely turd of a game. People seem to go easy on it just because X6 and X7 were so much worse. Two words: Falcon Armor. Still by far my favorite armor in the series. X6 is so lovely for a multitude of reasons, including that it ruined the Falcon Armor.
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Jan 12, 2013 01:41
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Last Celebration posted:It's also the best weapon since Thunder Beam is his weakpoint anyway. And I've beaten Yellow Devil without it, since you don't really have a choice on the PS1 or Anniversary Collection. It just means you have to die over and over again until you memorize the specific pattern you have to jump in to dodge him. You actually can do the trick on the Anniversary Collection, at least on Gamecube, as one of the buttons is mapped to Select. I don't remember the X5 devil being too hard... though it has been a while. I seem to remember that being able to duck for the first time in Mega Man history helped.
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Jan 12, 2013 01:59
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MM9 bosses took way more effort than I thought they would. And that's one hell of a tossback on Wily 2 after dying so uhh, guess I'll try this some other time.
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Jan 12, 2013 03:03
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I don't know if this has already been posted, but I found a playlist of a 25th anniversary techno CD of various Mega Man tunes here. There also a rock album.
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Jan 12, 2013 05:31
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I remember trying to solo X5 with Zero and spending like a whole afternoon on the Black Devil. I tried cheesing him by sticking to the upright corner of the room and walljumping like crazy, then slashing every now and then when there was an opening. I got it within like 3 to 4 hits a few times before I just said gently caress it and murdered his poo poo with X. e: Looking at a video right now, it seems trivially simple if you actually remember that you can duck in that game. I also had the impression that Zero's saber usually didn't have the reach to actually hit without taking damage at the same time. Man I was bad at videogames. 
GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jan 12, 2013 |
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Jan 12, 2013 05:59
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Speaking as a man who loathes Devil fights by their nature, I'll say that while crouching does rob the Shadow Devil of a lot of his bite, he's still the worst execution and most painful experience of a boss gimmick that's already botched conceptually. I find 1's Devil overblown, honestly. All he has going for him is speed, but his pattern is the least painful of the lot. 3's is easier, but more obnoxious to hit, and tedium goes a long way in making an easy battle tougher by way of you subconsciously losing focus and interest. 8's is a joke so I'm not really going to touch on that one, but for my money 9's and 10's are easily tougher than 1's, if by simple virtue of having more than one pattern and a projectile to throw at you. Sure, 'more than one pattern' equates to an inversion in this case, but it's still more to handle than five or six jumps' worth of muscle memory like 1's. I realize that 1 has a heavier defense than the others, but I find a short static pattern easier to maintain over a long period of time than a lengthy one over a shorter period, and the frequency of vulnerability also matters. Missing a shot on other Devils is a bigger pain in the rear end than missing the original. I've said I find Devil fights awful in concept alone, so the simpler the execution of that concept, the happier I'll be. Even the slower nature of later Devils is lost when you fight 10's on Hard. He's already got a few things going for him: he has the most involved sequence of the lot, concerning not only when to jump, but where to be, and his vulnerable moments are compounded by an uncertainty in where his eye will move, or which of his two projectiles he'll use first. Adding unpredictability to a fight so centered around minutes of rote memory makes losing your rhythm easy. But on Hard, he gains the frenetic pace of the Yellow Devil, which, at least for my money, makes for the hardest of the classic Devils, no question. X5's devil is embarrassingly bad in terms of design, though, and from a bare bones perspective is miles ahead of the classic ilk in complexity, difficulty and tedium. What saves you in X5 is that you're a lot less restricted to your baseline abilities than you are in the classics: potential loads of health, exploiting armors' higher defense, his weakness and the new crouching mechanic castrate a very large amount of what he throws your way. Crouching essentially means you only need to worry about bunny hopping the bottommost row from a static position, which makes the many configurations given to the boss feel even stupider in practice than they do on paper. But besides that, the boss really is a Frankenstein of all the things people hate about individual Devil fights. If you've been spelunking most corners of the game, you've boosted boss levels high enough that his health is formidably high, making for an interminable fight even by Devil standards. The length between his windows of vulnerability are as long as 10's at best and twice as long as all others combined at worst. Unlike 10, you don't see this made up for by extended windows when they do present themselves. Until 1/2 of the fight is done and the Devil introduces the possibility of a new form, you're only getting three shots in if you're good, two with his weakness. This doesn't account for a big chunk off his health in X5. Lastly, his damage output is insane. With a basic health bar and no defense, you're looking at death in about five hits, three from projectiles, two from body contact (which becomes an active threat with his second form), and a OHKO if you touch the outline left in the wake of him splitting apart. That's nonsense in a fight that, excepting weakness use, can last 5 to 7 minutes depending on luck and his level, and 3 or 4 even with the proper weapon. What really kills with the Shadow Devil is how far he takes the memorization principle, though. Rather than a simple direct/inverse relationship or a single pattern, the Devil's blocks have three distinct patterns they can be lobbed in, two of which have similar starts. Memorizing three 16-block configurations and identifying which is being used on the fly is laughably annoying, which turns the fight into either a reflex gauntlet, which its extreme length makes intolerable, or by far the most offensive execution of a Devil's main gimmick. Either way, it's poo poo. The speed of the fight is also the fastest outside of the original Yellow Devil and MM10's on Hard, so keeping a constant focus is even more exhausting in terms of the long haul. The fact that crouching can simplify a good deal of the chaos doesn't simplify all of it, and in fact, 1/2 of the way into the fight it's often useless. He will add the possibility of a new attack, which might be the most singularly awful in the X series outside of Nightmare Mother's lightning. After a half-volley of 8 blocks, the Shadow Devil may pincer you between 8 sets of two blocks fired together, with one side repeating the half-volley pattern, and the other either copying this or doing its own unique order. This is flatly impossible to react to if the unique order is used, as it results in an asymmetrical pincer. Memorization becomes necessity, and even though this new attack pattern follows the tradition of the Yellow Devil by being the same every time, it is so chaotic, cluttered and fast-paced that even knowing where to be and when to hop isn't going to predicate safety without some keen reflex to compliment your memory. It's completely overbearing. Yet somehow, the most critical offense in all of this is that, regardless of which configuration is drawn, this is an attack sequence that leaves no window to hurt him for 30 seconds. By anyone's standards, that translates to failed boss design by itself. His second form alluded to above reveals itself past 1/2 health as well, and while it can be manipulated relatively safely and simply once you've learned how it works, it is still an absolute dick move to introduce something that can't be reasonably predicted before seeing it in action once, and that can kill you in two hits, so late into a very long fight. On the other hand, it offers the largest window of opportunity to damage him, but it's all probability, so once you do learn it, you might not even see it. My basic point is, while the fight can be made 'easy' in practice by way of damage tanking and throwing all you have his way -provided you've collected a fair chunk or conversely have done so little his health is low- it, much like the Nightmare Mother, almost necessitates optional content, which is inexcusable. It's especially so given X5's nonlinear approach to unlocking the endgame. People who recount it as simple are probably forgetting the smash-your-face-against-the-enemy strategy they used to get through. If we're focused on the merits of a fairly naked run through the game, or a person who blindly locked himself out of the Fourth Armor, or simply the good design practice that an attack should be avoidable on its own merits no matter how unforgiving, the Shadow Devil is a miserable, incredibly grueling, obnoxiously difficult experience. If we're not, then he's still the first two things. However you approach the guy, he's a gigantic gently caress you to the player. X6 and 7 might be more painful packages overall, but this guy would feel right at home in either. Sorry about the lengthy description but it's a fascinatingly terrible fight for one so undersung. I realize you can invalidate the entire fight by hugging the top of either wall with strict rhythm, but an unintended exploit isn't really in the designer's favor.
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Jan 12, 2013 08:21
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What, MM10 has ALSO a Devil? Welp guess I'm not finishing that game neither. These fuckers are up there with block puzzles and Quick Man lasers in "man isn't that fun we need to have it in every MM game" nonsense.
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Jan 12, 2013 11:05
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Devils, at least those that behave like MM1's are hard if you panic, but as long as you remember that: 1) You don't have to give a poo poo about the upper half pieces. 2) A column of pieces won't start until the previous one has finished launching all its pieces. it's just a matter of keeping an eye on the two closest lower half pieces, as someone mentioned, the only actual difficult point in MM1's devil pattern is one time it launches two of those pieces consecutively. There's a particular fangame that does a funny thing with this, though... it switches gravity a la Gravity Man during the fight so you have to pay attention to more pieces. Simply Simon posted:These fuckers are up there with block puzzles and Quick Man lasers in "man isn't that fun we need to have it in every MM game" nonsense. This is 100% true though, easy or not, devils and any boss that drags the fight with annoying and repetitive periods of invencibility are a bore.
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Jan 12, 2013 12:29
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It's ok, the MM10 Devil is weak to Sheep Man's weapon  and if that doesn't work, pretend Strike Man's weapon is the Metal Blade and kill him in two seconds flat or take him out with Blade Man's weapon when he appears below you. Or just bring some E-tanks. Easiest Devil, bar none.
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Jan 12, 2013 12:32
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Thanks for the replies guys, I'll give MM2 a try and if that still trounces me I'll go for MM5. 
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Jan 12, 2013 12:53
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Also, X is the tightest game in the franchise so that's definitely worth a try.
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Jan 12, 2013 13:33
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TehGherkin posted:Thanks for the replies guys, I'll give MM2 a try and if that still trounces me I'll go for MM5.  . Also you save Wily 4 for last, that's one of the worst levels in the entire franchise.
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Jan 12, 2013 13:46
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Goddamn it Simon your attitude is completely bizarre.   
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Jan 12, 2013 14:04
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At Wily 4 the first time, I recommend on the boss, which is these annoying canon things behind gates, just destroy all the gates. You will run out of weapon energy for the only weapon that harms them, but don't worry. You'll be sent back to earlier in the level and can farm pipis to refill your weapon energy. Then when you reach the boss the second time the gates will still be gone and you can destroy them quite easily. Also if you pause right before they fire and unpause, the bullets will go right through you. You can't pause if you have a weapon or item of yours on screen however, so make sure you don't fire right before they do. In future playthroughs you'll probably be good enough to take out the necessary walls and buebeams without having to die and work your way back, but it's difficult if you haven't done it before.
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Jan 12, 2013 14:10
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quakster posted:Goddamn it Simon your attitude is completely bizarre.
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Jan 12, 2013 14:14
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No rage here, just confusion.
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Jan 12, 2013 14:38
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quakster posted:No rage here, just confusion.  ?
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Jan 12, 2013 14:42
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Violen, what are your thoughts on Minus Infinity now that a completed version is out?
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Jan 12, 2013 15:06
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Last Celebration posted:It's also the best weapon since Thunder Beam is his weakpoint anyway. And I've beaten Yellow Devil without it, since you don't really have a choice on the PS1 or Anniversary Collection. It just means you have to die over and over again until you memorize the specific pattern you have to jump in to dodge him. It actually works on the Anniversary Collection (on Gamecube at least)! Atomic Monkey talked big about fixing it (even though they just sloppily ported the PSX ports). It's "fixed" in that the normal way doesn't work, but it DOES WORK if you rapidly pause and unpause THEIR OWN out of game menu. Hilariously inept of them. EDIT: Sorry this is redundant.
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Jan 12, 2013 15:16
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Violen posted:potential loads of health, exploiting armors' higher defense Isn't this the Devil that takes off 99% of your highest possible health with any armour equipped if you accidentally brush him or his bright green outline? Petiso posted:2) A column of pieces won't start until the previous one has finished launching all its pieces. I feel like this isn't quite right. Still as you say, you only need to watch the bottom two and they'll never head off in anything particularly awful. Dabir fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jan 12, 2013 |
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Jan 12, 2013 16:49
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Schwarzwald posted:Violen, what are your thoughts on Minus Infinity now that a completed version is out? How did I miss this! Looks like I'm playing through MI again.
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Jan 12, 2013 17:20
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Schwarzwald posted:Violen, what are your thoughts on Minus Infinity now that a completed version is out? I still need to get around to replaying it with a fresh perspective. Despite some issues with the mechanics in general and a few individual stage gimmicks, I absolutely adored the project my first time through. If some of the issues I took specifically have seen polish since then I'm sure I'll come away from it even more enthusiastic, and I hear the last castle stages are certifiably insane. Can't offer you much in terms of concrete opinion on something I haven't gotten on my rear end for yet, though. This skirts the line of self-advertising, but I did do a run through this for Simon's... MM5 LP thread, I want to say? I did a few term papers on all but the three then-unfinished stages there, if you want to give those a glance.
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Jan 12, 2013 20:09
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I'll just advertise for you. (you did it for the MM5 thread, if I remember correctly, but I asked that it be archived with MM4)
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Jan 12, 2013 20:16
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I did see your earlier playthough, which was partly why I assumed you would have already completed the newer version.Violen posted:I hear the last castle stages are certifiably insane. Without spoiling anything, I'll say this is an understatement.
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Jan 12, 2013 21:08
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SFxMM version 2 comes out Friday, includes MM2-style passwords, an actual options menu at the title screen that allows better controller mapping, some general bug fixes, and a buff to M.Bison who really was quite weak for a final boss: http://www.capcom-unity.com/brelston/blog/2013/01/14/street-fighter-x-mega-man-v2-coming-this-friday Edited for boss spoilers I guess. Shadow Ninja 64 fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jan 15, 2013 |
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Jan 15, 2013 01:39
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:SFxMM version 2 comes out Friday, includes MM2-style passwords, an actual options menu at the title screen that allows better controller mapping, some general bug fixes, and a buff to M.Bison who really was quite weak for a final boss: http://www.capcom-unity.com/brelston/blog/2013/01/14/street-fighter-x-mega-man-v2-coming-this-friday Whoa, spoiler alert that. Some of us gave up quickly when we learned about the bad mapping and no password issues.  Seriously, now I can give this game a fair shot. It's still probably mediocre, but Mega Man is Mega Man.
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Jan 15, 2013 02:19
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BloodDesk UnderHell posted:Whoa, spoiler alert that. Some of us gave up quickly when we learned about the bad mapping and no password issues. I apologize, I went back and spoilered it. It didn't occur to me to do so because the article itself just throws it out there, coupled with the fact that I personally beat the game like a dozen times.
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Jan 15, 2013 02:30
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BloodDesk UnderHell posted:Whoa, spoiler alert that. Some of us gave up quickly when we learned about the bad mapping and no password issues. The levels are mostly mediocre (though I think a lot of the design bits were *really* smart), the weapons were... alright, but the boss fights are divine. Play it if only to buster duel Ryu.
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Jan 15, 2013 02:35
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senae posted:The levels are mostly mediocre (though I think a lot of the design bits were *really* smart), the weapons were... alright, but the boss fights are divine. Play it if only to buster duel Ryu. Ryu is a cheating whore. "Hey I'm losing this battle, better hurricane kick all over the screen for a few minutes like a loving helicopter."
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Jan 15, 2013 03:31
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raditts posted:Ryu is a cheating whore. "Hey I'm losing this battle, better hurricane kick all over the screen for a few minutes like a loving helicopter." Pff, I do it in Street Fighter all the time!
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Jan 15, 2013 05:58
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raditts posted:Ryu is a cheating whore. "Hey I'm losing this battle, better hurricane kick all over the screen for a few minutes like a loving helicopter."
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Jan 15, 2013 09:48
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I'm really late to the party here, but I'd also recommend starting with Mega Man 5 since three of the RMs are easily taken down with a naked buster and, unlike 2, you can farm E-tanks.
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Jan 15, 2013 10:09
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