|
I know it's TV and not real, but would a real life White House Chief of Staff actually have the kind of power that Leo wields on this show? I mean we routinely have him calling the shots in the situation room while the President is attending to other matters and the idea of someone who is not elected making these decisions independently makes me a bit uneasy.
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 08:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 15:55 |
|
|
It depends. Nixon's Chief of Staff was immensely powerful. Bush, on the other hand, delegated effective political power to Rove and Cheney instead.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 08:50
|
|
|
Hoops posted:I haven't rewatched season 1 in years. It's dated, it's pretty preachy, and it's lit in a very "90s" way. The tone and the dialogue isn't really so different, but season 2 is where my West Wing starts, with S3 being my favourite (because it's the best). That's good to hear. I'm about 16 episodes in and, while I like it, the whimsical music and preachiness is turning me off. Guess I better just plod through into the non-Mandy years.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 08:51
|
|
|
Delegating power to the vice president is unwise because the VP is one of the few people the president can’t fire.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 08:52
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:Delegating power to the vice president is unwise because the VP is one of the few people the president can’t fire. I remember reading an analysis of Bush's presidency that said that he was the presidential equivalent of the "franchise owner". He obviously had a deep, deep, trust of Cheney to even do that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 09:01
|
|
|
TinTower posted:I remember reading an analysis of Bush's presidency that said that he was the presidential equivalent of the "franchise owner". He obviously had a deep, deep, trust of Cheney to even do that. Trusting Cheney never backfired, so I suppose it worked for him. Meanwhile, Obama sends Biden on the very important mission of meeting with videogame executives about gun control. Or maybe it was Biden’s idea and Obama was just humouring him. Whatever the case, I can’t imagine Cheney meeting with Mattel about drink driving.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 09:15
|
|
|
Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:I mean we routinely have him calling the shots in the situation room while the President is attending to other matters and the idea of someone who is not elected making these decisions independently makes me a bit uneasy. Toby calls Barlet out on this, but I think the West Wing may have inadvertently changed my mind a little. Bartlet is closer to his Chief of Staff and his National Security Advisor than he is to his elected Vice President or any of his Senate-confirmed Cabinet secretaries. I'm not sure who I would rather be my President's 2nd in command, someone picked that could pass a Senate confirmation, or someone picked without that extra reservation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 09:41
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:Trusting Cheney never backfired, so I suppose it worked for him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 11:39
|
|
|
Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:I know it's TV and not real, but would a real life White House Chief of Staff actually have the kind of power that Leo wields on this show? It all depends on the person and circumstances. In the UK one of the most powerful people in politics for more than a decade was the Prime Minister's press officer. It's that careful balance of where power lies that the show gets right in the first four seasons. A great example is when Bartlett gets shot; Hoynes is technically in-charge, but everyone answers to Leo because the belief is that he's second in command. Even Hoynes knows this, and is there just to rubberstamp the decisions Leo makes on a technical level. When Hoynes enters the situation room for the first time, only a few people stand up. Leo has to tell everyone to stand up.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 11:39
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:Trusting Cheney never backfired, so I suppose it worked for him. Biden was also point man for the fiscal cliff deal, the debt ceiling deal, and he oversaw implementation of the stimulus package. He's an immensely powerful VP, probably the second most powerful in history.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 15:42
|
|
|
Pinterest Mom posted:Biden was also point man for the fiscal cliff deal, the debt ceiling deal, and he oversaw implementation of the stimulus package. He's an immensely powerful VP, probably the second most powerful in history. I... didn't know that. But then I'm not American. Knowing what we do behind-the-scenes with the Bartlet administration, it makes a lot of sense for him to give a huge amount of power to his Chief of Staff and not so much to his VP. Not sure it would play so well politically, but seeing how I had no idea that Biden did so much, maybe the public just doesn't care. Would it have hurt him in congress? That would have been an interesting plotline, better than most of what they did in s5. But yeah, delegation of power in the Executive Branch is 100% up to the President.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 16:06
|
|
|
JULIAN ASSANGE posted:I... didn't know that. But then I'm not American. It's not at all uncommon for VPs to have a very limited or specific role. I don't think that it would hurt a president politically, because the VP doesn't have any constitutional responsibilities other than to wait for the president to die and to cast tie breakers in the Senate. I'd say, without being an expert, that the relationship between Bartlet and Hoynes is probably closer to what you generally get than what we saw with Bush/Cheney.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 16:35
|
|
|
Aertuun posted:It all depends on the person and circumstances. In the UK one of the most powerful people in politics for more than a decade was the Prime Minister's press officer. No, that's not what happens. Everyone stands up, and Hoynes gets flustered and tells them to sit down.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 20:52
|
|
|
CelestialScribe posted:No, that's not what happens. Everyone stands up, and Hoynes gets flustered and tells them to sit down. No. Hoynes walks in, some people stand up. Leo talks to one of the military dudes, then he goes "ten-hut" and the rest of the military dudes stand up. Then Hoynes doesn't know where to sit, won't sit at the head of the table, and tells everyone to sit down.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 20:58
|
|
|
Giodo! posted:It's not at all uncommon for VPs to have a very limited or specific role. I don't think that it would hurt a president politically, because the VP doesn't have any constitutional responsibilities other than to wait for the president to die and to cast tie breakers in the Senate. I'd say, without being an expert, that the relationship between Bartlet and Hoynes is probably closer to what you generally get than what we saw with Bush/Cheney. Neither is typical, really. Bartlet/Hoynes seems to be modeled on JFK/LBJ's relationship, which was the most tense and adversarial POTUS/VP relationship in modern times, whereas Cheney is probably the most powerful VPOTUS ever. I think the mean is probably actually closer to Cheney than Hoynes - VPs then to have files assigned to them, they're in the loop, they're trusted advisors. Gore, HW Bush, Mondale were all very important people in their respective administrations.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 21:00
|
|
|
Clearly someone never watched "Mr. Willis of Ohio". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saHyMxVjceE
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 11:53
|
|
|
TinTower posted:Clearly someone never watched "Mr. Willis of Ohio". Linking this again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivVnVhYxS0Y
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 19:54
|
|
|
Holy poo poo, you guys. I'm watching West Wing on Netflix and S3 E19 is "The West Wing Special Episode". Jimmy Carter was even in it! Maybe it was an extra on a DVD or something, but I have the DVDs and I've never seen this. It's maybe on Youtube or something though. e: Bill Clinton! e2: Gerald Ford, I think? I stopped paying close attention. It's kinda boring. Interviews with staffers (and former presidents!) with some clips sprinkled in. myron cope fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jan 17, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 23:26
|
|
|
Finally got to season 5, the first season Aaron Sorkin left. You know what really jumps out? The insane amount of shakey cam. Who the gently caress is allowed to ok that?
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 13:27
|
|
|
myron cope posted:Holy poo poo, you guys. I'm watching West Wing on Netflix and S3 E19 is "The West Wing Special Episode". Jimmy Carter was even in it! Maybe it was an extra on a DVD or something, but I have the DVDs and I've never seen this. It's maybe on Youtube or something though. That's not an episode, it's some sort of TV special.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 14:11
|
|
|
pentyne posted:Finally got to season 5, the first season Aaron Sorkin left. You know what really jumps out? The insane amount of shakey cam. Who the gently caress is allowed to ok that? 
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 16:04
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8zBC2dvERM This was discussed in my geography class today. I was elated.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 23:33
|
|
|
This image is actually about Parks and Rec, not The West Wing, but here's one of The West Wing cast meeting an inspiration for many of its plots.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 23:37
|
|
|
The Kanye West Wing is a tumblr of image macros of Kanye West lyrics over screencaps from The West Wing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2013 16:01
|
|
|
Joementum posted:The Kanye West Wing is a tumblr of image macros of Kanye West lyrics over screencaps from The West Wing. It seems like every day I have a new favorite Tumblr. Thanks, internet!
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2013 17:16
|
|
|
Lost my poo poo at the Power lyric with Will making it rain.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2013 03:27
|
|
|
Turkmenistan to U.S.: We didn't order these pizzas.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2013 11:21
|
|
|
I just can't push myself through the earlier stages of Season 2, which isn't to say they are bad... oh, on the contrary... But they still feel like they're just spinning their wheels until they get to that amazing scene in the Season 2 finale (which I've also never seen).
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2013 11:30
|
|
|
escape artist posted:I just can't push myself through the earlier stages of Season 2, which isn't to say they are bad... oh, on the contrary... But they still feel like they're just spinning their wheels until they get to that amazing scene in the Season 2 finale (which I've also never seen). Season 2 is probably my favorite season in the whole show. The scene in the finale I assume you're talking about is indeed amazing, but there's so much amazing stuff in season 2 to enjoy until you get there. The Christmas episode, Noel, is my favorite episode of the entire show, and won Bradley Whitford his Emmy. Just enjoy the ride. The finale is so good because of all the build up through the whole season.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2013 23:24
|
|
|
escape artist posted:I just can't push myself through the earlier stages of Season 2, which isn't to say they are bad... oh, on the contrary... But they still feel like they're just spinning their wheels until they get to that amazing scene in the Season 2 finale (which I've also never seen). I just finished season 2 for the first time, and it's amazing how well everything builds up through the season. Besides the first 2 episodes, I was thinking the second season was a bit weaker then the first until I got to Noel. Beyond that point, there is hardly a misstep. The last 5 episodes tell an amazing story arc that put the characters through the wringer. It's really stunning television. The end of Ellie really got to me for some reason. I don't have a kid, but I'd imagine I would be blabbering like a baby at the end of that episode if I did.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 02:45
|
|
|
Glug_Glug posted:The end of Ellie really got to me for some reason. I don't have a kid, but I'd imagine I would be blabbering like a baby at the end of that episode if I did.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 02:49
|
|
|
"Ellie" is one of my favorite episodes. When the show first went up on Instant it was the first episode I rewatched. Of course, the other night I decided to watch "17 People" again, and then I just had to keep going through the finale.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 03:42
|
|
|
So the fact that Charlie and Zoey are a racially-mixed couple is portrayed as a point of controversy in the West Wing - violent reactions, questions how it looks from a PR standpoint, all that jazz... Did this seem as outlandish at the time of the original airing as it does now? I could never imagine there being a lot of hubbub about something like this nowadays, and I'm wondering whether this is something where things actually significantly improved over the show's lifespan, or if it was kind of unrealistic from the outset.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 22:37
|
|
|
I don't think there's anything outlandish about it. Their relationship wasn't really portrayed as controversial as far as I can remember. It was portrayed as being accepted by most of mainstream America, and those who were opposed to it were fringe groups. I don't think that's an unrealistic portrayal of how the nation would react to that situation, then or now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 22:49
|
|
|
not now posted:So the fact that Charlie and Zoey are a racially-mixed couple is portrayed as a point of controversy in the West Wing - violent reactions, questions how it looks from a PR standpoint, all that jazz... Have no idea how it would be viewed in different parts of America twelve years ago, but the key friction seemed to be that the relationship was with the President's daughter; otherwise no-one would care. That said, the West Wing often handled issues such as feminism and race quite clumsily.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 23:19
|
|
|
You have to cast your mind all the way back to the 1990s, which the show is generally a reflection on, since that when most of the writing and consulting staff were most heavily involved in politics. That decade we had race riots and white pride militias. The Klan even made a minor resurgence. It seems a little different today, after a decade of Islamic Terror writ large, but it wasn't outlandish at the time. Also too, there have been *significantly* more threats against our current President than the last two for some strange reason.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 23:22
|
|
|
Well I mean the group that did Rosslyn was "West Virginia White Pride", right? I vaguely remember hearing something like "knights of the ku klux klan" (sons?). I mean, they're the fringe groups of the fringe groups. I can absolutely see a place like Stormfront losing their poo poo about a black guy dating the white President's daughter.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 23:24
|
|
|
Maybe a white Republican president's daughter.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2013 04:24
|
|
|
Racism is still alive and well in even 2013, I assure you. You have to remember too, they were really just worried about the odd nutjob here or there, not like the entire country was clamoring for his head. Now, if this show took place in the 60s... E: Oh, and, I just marathoned this show for the first time the last few weeks and holy poo poo. Can't believe I missed this the first time around, but I'm glad I got to watch it all at once. The post 9/11 episode was awkward, but, it brought me right back to those "uncertain times".
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2013 04:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 15:55 |
|
|
Conquistador posted:Racism is still alive and well in even 2013, I assure you. You have to remember too, they were really just worried about the odd nutjob here or there, not like the entire country was clamoring for his head. Now, if this show took place in the 60s... Yeah I was going to post this sentiment earlier today I just didnt have time. If Malia Obama starts dating a rich white boy in a couple of years you betcha there will be a shitstorm. Maybe not an assassination attempt but the hate mail and bullshit that they mentioned here and there to plant the seeds for that storyline would be a complete reality for them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2013 06:35
|
|
