|
SalTheBard posted:Saw this awesome pieces of poo poo posted on facebook: It pisses me off because it is basically saying that there are real problems in the world that unfairly hurt children but because the school shootings thing is in red it's actually saying "you ain't taking my guns!"
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 05:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 17:35 |
|
|
SalTheBard posted:Saw this awesome pieces of poo poo posted on facebook: It should enrage you because he's using gun accident numbers from America yet starvation numbers from the entire world, and doesn't include non gun accidents, because apparently children never die from gun homicide. It's more disingenuous than the "More people are killed by hammers/other blunt objects than rifles!!!"*ignores handguns*
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 05:07
|
|
|
Amused to Death posted:It should enrage you because he's using gun accident numbers from America yet starvation numbers from the entire world, and doesn't include non gun accidents, because apparently children never die from gun homicide. It's more disingenuous than the "More people are killed by hammers/other blunt objects than rifles!!!"*ignores handguns* I love the fact it's ignoring the gun accidents.  I read the article accompanying this image, and I figured out why now he's now anti-police; the peaceful protesters were part of the Occupy movement. Normally he's worshiping the police and military.  What makes an event a scandal? At what point does anything become a scandal?  You see, Michelle Obama is the real racist because _________.  So. loving. Close.  What's the obsession with Sparta/Ancient Greece? I know it's definitely not the actual historical cultures, it's the movie 300's Sparta/Ancient Greece. Wang_Tang fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jan 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 05:43
|
|
|
Wang_Tang posted:
Wang_Tang posted:
That is a Scottish guy pretending to be a Greek guy wrapped in the American flag, kicking a symbol of international cooperation. It's a metaphor for something but I don't know what (other than ignorant bigotry but that stands for all of these).
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 06:13
|
|
|
Wang_Tang posted:
Sparta was a violent military empire entirely built on the backs of slaves that, despite being viewed as ignorant savages by most all of their peers, thought they were the shining beacon of the 'true Greek way of life'. Yea, I wonder why these people so easily identify with them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 06:30
|
|
|
SalTheBard posted:Saw this awesome pieces of poo poo posted on facebook: Devoid of any context, I would have thought that that picture was being used against the "put guards in every school" rhetoric.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 06:56
|
|
|
KillerJunglist posted:Dammit, mom. This reminds me of an article a hippie-dippy friend posted on FB a few months about about how pregnant women don't really need a flu shot cuz chances are nothing will happen to the fetus if you get sick and come on, the flu isn't that bad, you whinny babies. Just drink hot water with lemon and watch movies until you're better. Why, the flu is practically a vacation! Well, now we have research showing that maternal infections and other autoimmune fuckery during pregnancy may be tied to autism. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/opinion/sunday/immune-disorders-and-autism.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 08:05
|
|
|
KillerJunglist posted:It pisses me off because it is basically saying that there are real problems in the world that unfairly hurt children but because the school shootings thing is in red it's actually saying "you ain't taking my guns!" If you want to feel just as rotten, the people who will vote for new gun laws voted against expanding the programs that would help in the interest of bi-partisanship.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 08:09
|
|
|
Glitterbomber posted:Sparta was a violent military empire entirely built on the backs of slaves that, despite being viewed as ignorant savages by most all of their peers, thought they were the shining beacon of the 'true Greek way of life'.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 08:10
|
|
|
Radbot posted:No, you can't have an Abrams tank with an operable guided shell, or a Javelin/MANPAD with an IR-guided missile. Nor can you have a drone armed with a weapon. These things are definitely buildable, yet not legal to own, funny that. While there may be restrictions I'm unfamiliar with on your specific examples(perhaps with regards to classified guidance systems), to the best of my knowledge there are no federal laws prohibiting ownership of tanks with operating main guns and ammunition for said guns; rocket, missile, or grenade launchers; or military aircraft with mounted weapons. These will generally be NFA Title II weapons which are difficult and expensive, but not impossible or illegal to obtain.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 09:32
|
|
|
swiss_army_chainsaw posted:Well, now we have research showing that maternal infections and other autoimmune fuckery during pregnancy may be tied to autism.  I had no idea we knew anywhere near that much about actual causes of it. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 10:42
|
|
|
 Yes because it's not like spankings cause significant issues in kids in the future! edit: and I don't why people overplay the participation trophy. Should we destroy kids' confidence just because they didn't win?
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 15:19
|
|
|
seiferguy posted:edit: and I don't why people overplay the participation trophy. Should we destroy kids' confidence just because they didn't win? I think it plays into the same driving force that results in wealth worship. Only the very tip-top deserve recognition and accolades. Everyone else should be treated like the disgusting, lazy, filth that they are. But its ok because one day I will be part of that tip-top group because I work so hard!
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 15:51
|
|
|
Choadmaster posted:
Isn't that fascinating? And we've known for a long time that autoimmune diseases are on the rise in a big way. Could be the missing link in some cases. I just don't get why people persist with pseudoscience. The real thing is so much more interesting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 17:13
|
|
|
seiferguy posted:
I've never understood that line of thinking, either. Why on earth is "YOU LOSE YOU SUCK GET OVER IT RUB SOME DIRT ON YOUR TEARS, KID" something that we people want to instill on kids? Why can't we let them be kids and have fun? For fucks sake it's depressing to me that people advocate a boot on a kid's face from day one. Instead of conditioning children for the crushing and depressing culture we have, why don't we try to change the culture? It just steams my clams in the same way it does when people race to the bottom, lovely job or suffering wise. Instead of Person_A bickering about how Person_B's job isn't as lovely as theirs, why can't we all agree that things should be better? Crikey.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 17:45
|
|
|
Here's a pretty long rant about taxes that just popped up on my feed: http://pastebin.com/c5BZ2jCD quote:STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 17:52
|
|
|
You know I was hoping not to ever post in here, and yet today, this shows up on my Facebook feed posted by someone who I consider a normally reasonable person. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx9GxXYKx_8 Half an hour of what amounts to evidence of lack of due diligence in the 24 hour news cycle, a pathetic critique of human nature with regard to reaction to tragedy, and a tenuous grasp of web technology. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 17:57
|
|
|
So this happened on my facebook today re: Sandy Hook Shootingcrazyfacebookdude posted:My theory is this. The recent shootings, starting with Columbine, are part of a larger plan to disarm the American public. The power of the government has been growing for over 2 administrations now and with that power also comes fear from the people who hold it. When governments reach a point of oppression, the people have a tendency to rise up and overthrow those governments. With the rise of the PATRIOT Act, which stripped us of out civil liberties with the constant threat of being labeled a terrorist, our freedoms of been severely curtailed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 18:09
|
|
|
aBagorn posted:So this happened on my facebook today re: Sandy Hook Shooting He was really making some good points in that third paragraph! ... up until the last two sentences.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 18:32
|
|
|
The following isn't crazy or stupid, but it's posted by someone who usually buys into crazy and stupid things: "I don't understand or follow politics but Obama wants to raise our borrowing limit, to borrow more money so we can spend more. So how do you get out of debt if you spend what you don't have?" Does anyone have a succinct and easy to understand explanation for what is occurring? This is someone who is genuinely on the fence and I try to push them in the right direction but I think most of it goes over their head.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 18:35
|
|
|
Occam's razor is lost upon these folk. Series of school shootings? Certainly it's a false flag attack designed to seize guns from the American populace for some dubious motives and nebulous goals that involve tyranny, oppression and the creation of a police state- for what exactly? What's the end goal? Of course, there's no way that it could be media sensationalism and a poisonous culture which glorifies gun violence. Nope. Conspiracy theory no doubt.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 18:39
|
|
|
Troll Bridgington posted:Here's a pretty long rant about taxes that just popped up on my feed: I so far only read that quote you posed and already I can say -100 years ago both women and children worked in sweatshops so families wouldn't starve -The middle class was hilariously small at the time probably because we didn't tax people, namely the rich, to any large extent -The only time there wasn't a national debt was in 1834 -We are comparatively to other nations economically more powerful now than in 1912 since at the time the French, British and German empires definitely were on the same tier as us even if we did have a larger economy than them. e: And of course, a lot of these aren't true. Taxing alcohol has always been a popular thing(Whiskey rebellion yo!). The telephone excise tax is in fact famously used in other emails like this for the fact it was instituted in 1898 to fund the Spanish-American war and was never rescinded, numerous states had state income taxes in the 19th century, ect. Amused to Death fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jan 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 18:39
|
|
|
Poizen Jam posted:Occam's razor is lost upon these folk. Series of school shootings? I dunno, Occam's Razor seems like a pretty big part of gun culture. "Criminals are bad because they're criminals, and thus enacting laws to prohibit guns is stupid because criminals don't obey laws," and all that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 18:41
|
|
|
Troll Bridgington posted:Here's a pretty long rant about taxes that just popped up on my feed: We were Great Britain 100 years ago?  I'm kinda sad I purged my Facebook. I miss all these things.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 18:45
|
|
|
Countblanc posted:I dunno, Occam's Razor seems like a pretty big part of gun culture. "Criminals are bad because they're criminals, and thus enacting laws to prohibit guns is stupid because criminals don't obey laws," and all that. Which is stupid because a lot of gun violence is caused by people who certainly weren't criminals when they acquired the guns. But I guess that might mean admitting criminals are people like you and me and not some insiduously evil, nebulous cabal of do-badders.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 18:45
|
|
|
Tomahawk posted:The following isn't crazy or stupid, but it's posted by someone who usually buys into crazy and stupid things: Because you can get more by spending what you don't have, possibly even enough to pay back what you borrowed. That's the point of mortgages, business loans, student loans, et hoc genus omne. US debt is investment, not consumptive debt. We borrow $1T, invest it in the economy, and make back $3T. Basically, they're confusing the deficit with a credit card, and that's inaccurate. There's also the economic need for T-Bills as a place to park money, but I don't understand that well enough to explain it. Somebody's about to link Sarion's effortpost on the subject, but that should be enough. ETA: Granted there are problems with the debt, I think I saw somewhere that the GDP only increased $1 for every $3 in debt, but I'm inclined to blame that on poor investment choices, considering how much the Bush tax cuts contribute to the DEBT and how little tax cuts actually stimulate the economy. I don't have charts, but I know somebody else will. darthbob88 fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jan 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 18:45
|
|
|
darthbob88 posted:Because you can get more by spending what you don't have, possibly even enough to pay back what you borrowed. That's the point of mortgages, business loans, student loans, et hoc genus omne. US debt is investment, not consumptive debt. We borrow $1T, invest it in the economy, and make back $3T. U.S. government debt isn't earmarked for specific purposes, so the most accurate description of how we spend it is simply one which reflects our overall spending patterns. Which is to say, it's mostly medicare, defense spending, and social security. The typical defense of deficit spending is that we can support rather massive levels of it due to our quite forgiving interest rates. Saying that it's an investment is just fantasyland.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 19:02
|
|
|
Tomahawk posted:The following isn't crazy or stupid, but it's posted by someone who usually buys into crazy and stupid things: Going to simplify my normal debt/inflation rant here: State borrowing is happening right now at the lowest interest rates in modern history. The United States is borrowing money at interest rates lower than inflation. What that means is that if the U.S. borrows $1 million for one year at, say, 1% interest and spends it as an investment (say, in student loans), one year later they owe $1.01 million. But if inflation was 2% over that same year, the $1 million of student loans that they spent is now worth $1.02 million in 2014 dollars. The government has spent $1 million, has to pay back $1.01 million, but has gained benefits equal to $1.02 million from it. It's essentially free money. Investors (primarily U.S. citizens, not China or anyone like that) are paying the U.S. government to hold onto their debt because they will lose less money by doing that than they will by keeping it in a box under their bed or by investing it in riskier alternatives. And this inflation/debt fact doesn't even take into account things like 'the 2008 recession means state revenue has declined, and once the recession ends revenue will increase again, resulting in a lower deficit' and 'stimulus funding is necessary in order for that to happen, while austerity will make it worse (look at the UK)' and 'investments in things like student loans pay themselves back in the long run by increasing standards of living and aggregate national income, and therefore social wellbeing AND state revenue' and 'the bulk of U.S. spending is on things like healthcare, which benefit its citizens, while the only untouchable part of the budget is military spending, which does not benefit U.S. citizens but instead kills foreign people.' Borrowing money and deficit spending is objectively the right policy to undertake at this moment in time for any state or any regional government that is still trusted enough by investors to get low interest rates. America is trusted by its investors, so state borrowing is at all-time-low interest rates and to not take advantage of those would be bad policy, while Greece is not trusted by its investors so has problems with sky-high interest. State debt is not like credit card debt, and U.S. debt is not like Greek debt.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 19:14
|
|
|
quote:the Liberals who are by far in control right now  Tomahawk posted:The following isn't crazy or stupid, but it's posted by someone who usually buys into crazy and stupid things: The main issue with the debt ceiling is this: Congress passed a law requiring us to spend money on a host of things. This law (laws, really) was already passed, the Treasury is required by law to carry out this spending. Similarly, Congress passed laws to generate tax revenue. However, the tax revenue is not enough to pay for all the things Congress already bought. Congress has ordered the Treasury to spend $3.5T, but is only giving them $2.5T to pay for everything and not letting them take on debt to pay for the rest. Raising the Debt Ceiling does not allow Obama to spend, spend, spend; Congress controls spending. Congress has already decided how much we're going to spend, but now that the bills have come due they suddenly have decided they don't want to pay for poo poo. What will actually happen if the ceiling is hit isn't that suddenly Obama will have to cut back spending. What will happen is the Treasury will pay bills with money as it comes in. Which means in March some people will get Social Security checks, but others won't. Some soldiers will get paid, but others won't. FBI agents will have to put investigations into drug cartels and terrorists on hold. Some people will get their tax returns, others won't. And on and on and on. All because Congress passed laws requiring the Treasury to do something mathematically impossible. The Debt Ceiling is loving stupid. Strudel Man posted:What. This depends on how you want to look at the budget. For example, Medicare and Social Security have taxes that specifically feed into them, those taxes currently provide more money than is required to keep them running, and the left over money then goes into trust funds. So technically, deficit spending goes toward things like Defense and other discretionary spending. In reality, it's more like a big pot though, since if (when) Medicare starts costing more than it brings in, they'll use general funds and deficits to shore it up. That being said, I think you're a little dismissive on Social Security and Medicare as far as investments go. They aren't what you might think of in terms of "investments", such as research and development. But they both have important impacts on economic growth because they take money and put it in the hands of people who need it and will use it. Medicare does this sort of indirectly, by freeing up income that doesn't need to be spent on medical care (and also going into pay checks of nurses and doctors, who themselves spend it). This is very similar to the way Food Stamps and Unemployment payments had very high economic multipliers during the worst of the Recession even though they aren't what you would typically consider investments. Also, Defense spending employs tons of lower/middle class people and there's a lot of research that falls under the umbrella of "Defense". Now, I think we'd agree that there might be better investments to be made with $800B, other than spending all of it on defense. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have any return on the money spent. Interest rates play a big part of it, you're right. In large part because the rates are so low, that when compared to inflation the money doesn't have to even be spent spectacularly well to result in more return over the long run than the cost of the loan.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 19:59
|
|
|
There was some good stuff on my FB feed this morning, starting with this image from a cousin: After Obama's press conference, an old high school acquaintance who is extremely right-wing posted "I wish I could be the government and pay my bills with make believe money" and "I really hate him." Eighteen likes so far, mostly from other yokels I went to high school with who never made it out of our home town's area code. Also, I thought this was a pretty interesting link: http://www.assaultweapon.info/ But I know dick about guns so I'm not sure how much of it is true. A question: if semi-automatic rifles aren't "that bad" then why are they made to LOOK THAT WAY? Do that many people in this country need to play cowboy vigilante? swiss_army_chainsaw fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jan 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 22:30
|
|
|
KamikazeJim posted:You know I was hoping not to ever post in here, and yet today, this shows up on my Facebook feed posted by someone who I consider a normally reasonable person. I got that one too. I told the person who posted it, that my husband and I watched the live broadcast, after the shooting. The handcuffed guy, in the police car, was later identified as a 17 year old brother, of a Sandy Hook student. After hearing of the shooting, he ran through the woods that separated his home from the school, to check on his little sister.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 22:53
|
|
|
swiss_army_chainsaw posted:There was some good stuff on my FB feed this morning, starting with this image from a cousin: "I agree, poor and middle class people aren't comparable to capitalists at all!"
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 22:58
|
|
|
If you aren't literally dying in the street then I don't know how you could possibly need help from "society," whatever the gently caress that is.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 23:03
|
|
|
swiss_army_chainsaw posted:Also, I thought this was a pretty interesting link: http://www.assaultweapon.info/ But I know dick about guns so I'm not sure how much of it is true. As for how they look, TFR often calls them "scary black rifles" to make fun of the fact they're functionally identical to those ranch guns. The biggest differences are that more of it is made of metal, and to protect the metal it has to be anodized, usually black. Some of it is association with the military I'm sure, but the look just appeals to some people, probably for the same reasons there are lots of black luxury items like XBoxes, electronics, or cars.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 00:11
|
|
|
Inflated sense of self-worth seems to be a big part of this. The cousin is a bartender (and recovering alcoholic, for what it's worth) who seems to have had a late-life political awakening and the FB commenter is a self-employed wedding photographer who does lovely work but constantly complains about what the government is "taking from her."
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 00:13
|
|
|
Tomahawk posted:The following isn't crazy or stupid, but it's posted by someone who usually buys into crazy and stupid things: Congress passes bills which dictates spending. This year they spent more than they collected in taxes. For Obama to pay the bills congress racked up, Obama has to borrow money. So basically Obama has to borrow money to pay bills, not to buy shiny new things. I you wanna convince them that government spending is good, say interest rates for borrowing are really low and the fiscal cliff was a big deal because cutting spending hurts the economy. I guess you can also say our deficits are high because the economy means people aren't paying as much in taxes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 01:07
|
|
|
I don't want to help a diversion back into gunchat, but either in this thread or in the short-lived (?) Gun Talk Feelings thread, someone linked to a "better" source about gun control in Nazi Germany than another, more polemical article (both PDFs). While it might be factually accurate as far as the actual gun control laws (as it seems to have transcribed the laws and then translated them), the book, published by National Vanguard Books, is rife with antisemitism. Explicit, unapologetic antisemitism. As in it complains about the "typically ethnocentric view" of Jews writing bad things about the "peaceful and prosperous time in Germany" between Hitler's rise to power in 1933 to replace the leftist Jewish Weimar Republic, and the World War in 1939, and compares it to the complaints about the decent job McCarthy and HUAC were doing in the 1950's, which the Jew-controlled media, again "ethnocentrically", picture as horrible because so many communist Jews were exposed. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 01:10
|
|
|
This was posted on facebook by someone in my family who likes to think that looking at friendly infographics makes him economically smart. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDhcqua3_W8 He seriously tries to make the point that poor people are making more money than before without once even considering inflation. How goddamn deluded do you have to be to think this?
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 02:41
|
|
|
Sarion posted:That being said, I think you're a little dismissive on Social Security and Medicare as far as investments go. They aren't what you might think of in terms of "investments", such as research and development. But they both have important impacts on economic growth because they take money and put it in the hands of people who need it and will use it. Medicare does this sort of indirectly, by freeing up income that doesn't need to be spent on medical care (and also going into pay checks of nurses and doctors, who themselves spend it). This is very similar to the way Food Stamps and Unemployment payments had very high economic multipliers during the worst of the Recession even though they aren't what you would typically consider investments. So yes, I'd expect some return on social security spending in the form of sales taxes on the products and services that retirees buy, corporate taxes on the institutions providing them, and income taxes on the people those institutions employ. But I would be very surprised if a dollar of SS spending came anywhere near to providing a dollar of additional tax revenue. And if it doesn't, then it's only an 'investment' in the metaphorical sense, not the literal sense of "something that provides net monetary benefit to the institution supplying the initial funds."
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 02:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 17:35 |
|
|
Strudel Man posted:The 'economic multipliers' you're referring to, for example, pertain to the net effect of a dollar of food stamp spending on national GDP, not to actual return of funds in the form of tax revenues. Indeed. The expansion of economic activity though provides the base for which more in taxes could in theory be recuperated, this is entirely dependent on taxation policy though. It's impossible to try to link spending to tax revenue though in trying to find a return on investment, because they're two entirely separate entities. If we doubled average food stamp and SS payments, then it'd probably do wonders for the economy. If we simultaneously cut a variety of taxes, obviously revenue isn't going to be returned.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 03:09
|
|