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Aurora Borealis posted:What happened to consulting the thread before spending large sums of money? Just didn't happen this time. Toeshoes has been angry about our lack of eating and working surface for months, so she gave me some time to find something on kijiji. That didn't work so we bought the stuff from Ikea. Edit: for what it's worth, I can tell that I'm kind of in a bit of a manic state. I've been finding it hard to concentrate at work, I have no appetite, I don't feel like I need sleep, and I didn't feel totally awful about spending money in ikea. But we did get like, the ten dollar chairs instead of the 30 dollar chairs, for instance. Lots of justifications! tuyop fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Jan 13, 2013 |
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Jan 13, 2013 14:23
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 December Update Nothing to see here, just a better than average month, we'll try to stay out of Ikea and keep up the trend!  Again, the car ate most of the money, but we spent a LOT on food. I know that almost 30 bucks of that was spent on the trip back and forth from home. We also made supper a couple of times for our friends and family as a way to celebrate without gifts. It was very successful, but not free!  Again, we had a good couple of months. It's very cool looking at this graph because toeshoes and I seem totally loving godlike in our power to generate money together, as opposed to how we were when we were living separately. Compared to this, and the debt graph, 500 bucks in furniture (and decorations) doesn't seem like that big of a deal. And this is cool, by consolidating debt into a line of credit, we've saved more than 100 dollars in fees.  Any questions? December was a pretty straightforward month where nothing crazy happened. tuyop fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jan 13, 2013 |
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Jan 13, 2013 15:08
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tuyop posted:Just didn't happen this time. Toeshoes has been angry about our lack of eating and working surface for months, so she gave me some time to find something on kijiji. That didn't work so we bought the stuff from Ikea. I'm not going to argue about whether or not you should or shouldn't have bought furniture but it would have been nice if, knowing you guys needed a table and desk and having been given months to find one, you guys had used this as an opportunity to save up for a purchase, setting aside a little each month to go towards the desk and table rather than wait for a windfall and just buy. This was also a great opportunity to go shopping on a budget. You had $400 to buy a desk and a table, this should have been easily doable, but you ended up spending an extra $100 outside of your budget. Did you really need all of those things or were some of those decorations just things you picked up on the spur of the moment without really thinking when you saw them rather than something you walked into the store intending to buy?
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Jan 13, 2013 17:13
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tuyop posted:Just didn't happen this time. Toeshoes has been angry about our lack of eating and working surface for months, so she gave me some time to find something on kijiji. That didn't work so we bought the stuff from Ikea. Why did you guys go to Ikea rather than a thrift store or a walmart or whatever? And surely there's rummage sales up there. E: I'm not saying not to have bought something to eat off of and work on, either, but I'm under the impression that Ikea is a lot of money for the brand name.
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Jan 13, 2013 17:21
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Fold out tables are like $20 and you can drape a nice cloth over it. Bonus because extra storage underneath.
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Jan 13, 2013 17:26
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I agree with hookars-when ae you going to learn to start planning and saving for purchases you think are important?
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Jan 13, 2013 17:51
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Ikea exists for college students who think they are saving money. The furniture from Ikea does not last in the long run, a table from a thrift store or someplace else that other dudes mentioned will be much better. In the future don't buy new furniture from Ikea. (An exception might be some of their beds which aren't incredibly terrible and are priced similarly to other brands of mattresses) Good job on the general trend in December. You are making progress. Slowly.
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Jan 13, 2013 18:15
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Tuyop, you are clearly struggling with the concept of "needs" vs. "wants". You needed surface area in your place. You didn't need to purchase $500 of new furniture to obtain said surface area; you wanted to do that, when you probably could have spent under $100 to fill the same need. You look at your needs and you go for the first solution that pops into your head that appeals to you, when you should be asking yourself "Okay, what is the actual need here? And what's the least costly way for me to meet this need reasonably?" You should always be looking for opportunities to reduce your cost, regardless of where the money to cover it came from. It's nice that your graph is going down, but your goal is to get out of debt, and $400 in one month might not seem like it would make much of a dent but over time you've made a lot of those "minor" purchases on shaky logic, and I'd bet if someone went back through the thread and added up only the ones you've reported here, it would be well into the thousands. Fluffy Bunnies posted:Why did you guys go to Ikea rather than a thrift store or a walmart or whatever? And surely there's rummage sales up there. quote:E: I'm not saying not to have bought something to eat off of and work on, either, but I'm under the impression that Ikea is a lot of money for the brand name.
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Jan 13, 2013 18:25
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Oh tuyup and toeshoes, you two are made for each other. I hope your new Ikea furniture packs up nicely since you've got that whole May deadline looming for when the army is going to shuffle you around again. Has that changed at all or do you just need to get a bigger storage unit to hold your new purchases?
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Jan 13, 2013 20:10
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CuddleChunks posted:Oh tuyup and toeshoes, you two are made for each other. Yeah they've agreed to give us a cost move from here, so this stuff is going to be moved professionally when we go. I did save a bit by getting some stuff from re/store, but most of it wouldn't work and we didn't want to make do. You guys are absolutely right that we didn't need any of that stuff, we've been living perfectly well all this while without it. I think we both just got really excited to decorate and get something nice at the same time and this is what happened.
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Jan 13, 2013 20:23
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I think the point we're trying to make is that you can't afford nice things. You got $400 from some family who requested you spend it on furniture. Alrighty, how much furniture do you actually need? Apparently you needed a new table or something. Fine, a new table set doesn't have to cost $400, in fact it can be a hell of a lot cheaper than that and still perfectly suit the "is a table and has chairs" goal. Let's say you find a set that costs $250. Stellar - you've got money left over from this windfall, have the new furniture you're looking for and have some left over to apply towards the crippling debt you live with every day. That's the sensible thing we're hoping you'll start to try and implement in your day to day life. Instead, you blew through the windfall and ended up having to spend more of your own money to complete the purchase. That's not very wise. No one wants to think of themselves as poor but face it - you have away more debt than you do income right now. Some day, if you manage to reverse that trend and save up money to buy things you can look at your finances and go, "Sweet, i have a few tens of thousands of dollars in the bank, my retirement is funded, I've saved up a grand for some fun money and that thing I want costs less than my fun budget. Imma go buy it!" Until you're in a stable financial position then you should be hoarding money and begrudge every purchase. It's not a fun way to live but at the same time it helps you get your priorities straight - get out of debt, start making money that is your own and not on loan from someone else. My parents lived as paupers for a long long time and though it sucked to not be able to go on trips or buy stuff on a whim here at the other end of their lives they can drop everything and fly coast to cost. They can refurbish, remodel and otherwise tweak their house without worrying about debt. They can be incredibly generous to their children because they were so careful with how they managed their money early on. That's the key - behavior early on. I hope you enjoy the furniture, I"m sure it looks nice and having a place to put things is important. I just hope that next time you're in this situation you'll take a look at what constructive things you can do with that windfall rather than blowing through it and more in a purchasing frenzy.
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Jan 13, 2013 20:50
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CuddleChunks posted:I think the point we're trying to make is that you can't afford nice things. This isn't true anymore than it was true for Cornholio once he got his budget under control. It certainly isn't perfect money management, but if the outstanding debt continues to go down regularly (and it has) he's on the path to sustainability. All he needs to do is be happy with his pace. Bitching at him because he's intentionally not min-maxing his money like stats in a video game is just stupid, frankly.
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Jan 13, 2013 21:08
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I totally understand the impulse to get away from the feeling of deprivation ... "I just want a loving table, damnit" kinda thinking. But I think what people are reacting to here is that ... you made this big purchase and gave in to that nice feeling of splurging. But is this REALLY the splurge that was worth it? This is the splurge that's going to tide you over for the next few months/year? An IKEA table?
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Jan 13, 2013 21:11
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The problem isn't that tuyop spent money on a table with the $400 he was given specifically for furniture. The problem is they THEN spent ABOVE AND BEYOND the budget they were given. Which is the problem that got them where they are in the first place.
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Jan 13, 2013 21:19
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tuyop posted:
Then why did your savings basically halve?
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Jan 14, 2013 01:38
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CuddleChunks posted:I think the point we're trying to make is that you can't afford nice things. I agree with you, and I'm ok with being a bit uncomfortable for a year or so to get there, but I'm not really ok with making someone I love endure that discomfort as well if they're not into it. If we can spend about 1.2% of the debt on something that makes us a bit more comfortable, then I think that's worth it. But I'm torn because I really like the stuff that we got, and I like the way that I feel like I'm personalizing my place and living somewhere attractive and "nice". But we were perfectly happy before, except for the few hours in the evening where it was inconvenient to do homework. I don't really know how to feel about it. Also, the amount we spent was totally a bit compulsive. I think in the future it would be best to stay out of Ikea when I feel this way.
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Jan 14, 2013 02:15
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Also by far the nicest table Ikea sells is the "VIKA FURUSKOG" which is just an unfinished wood table. It's the only table that's not poo poo particle board but you have to varnish or oil it yourself. You can get a full nice kitchen table for under $100.
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Jan 14, 2013 02:32
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tuyop posted:I agree with you, and I'm ok with being a bit uncomfortable for a year or so to get there, but I'm not really ok with making someone I love endure that discomfort as well if they're not into it. If we can spend about 1.2% of the debt on something that makes us a bit more comfortable, then I think that's worth it. So why didn't you wait a moment, and either look for a deal or actually plan an save for it? You're a grown-rear end man, Tuyop. The time for buying yourself the shiny new thing and going over budget has long since passed.
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Jan 14, 2013 06:40
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So Tuyop, how's the saving for the wedding going? Apart from the unnecessary overspend and the halving of your savings?
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Jan 14, 2013 09:05
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DoctorTristan posted:So Tuyop, how's the saving for the wedding going? Apart from the unnecessary overspend and the halving of your savings? The worms were a qualified wedding expense. They are for the centerpieces.
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Jan 14, 2013 17:52
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Tuyop, how much did the worm set-up cost you? Because you have to have bought an actual set-up besides the worms (I hope). And where are you planning on sticking it? Don't you live in an apartment? That poo poo gets messy and stinky you know. Not to mention that unless you have a garden, this doesn't really benefit you besides the good feeling that may come from composting some of your waste (you could get an even better feeling paying down some of that debt!!). Jesus christ, this may just be worse than the whole basil idea. Especially since you actually went through with it. Also, I've lived in this place for 2 years without an eating or working space. As a full-time student with plenty of homework. Suck it up princess. Sure, we could get a table if we wanted as we're in a much better financial situation than you, but we sure as hell wouldn't spend that much on it or other random furniture/decoration accessories we felt like buying to make poo poo nicer. Would it be nice? Yes. I love decorating and would kill to live in a nicer place where everything matches. But you need to learn to differentiate between needs and wants and you are still, years later, either completely unable to do that or at the very least completely unable to control your impulses. Eden fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Jan 15, 2013 |
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Jan 15, 2013 14:18
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Eden posted:...At the very least completely unable to control your impulses. Don't be so dramatic. I guess I'm not a total furniture frugality superhero like you, but I think you're setting a bit of a false dichotomy. My savings halved on that graph because we dumbed everything ($5980) into the consolidation line of credit as per fraternite's advice. That leaves us with a 1k buffer in toeshoes' account plus a 1k buffer in my account. The worm setup is very simple. 30 bucks for 1/2lb of red wigglers, some shredded documents from work and a torn up cardboard box, all put into four dollars worth of Rubbermaid totes. I'll be using it on this.  Oh yeah, you know what it is. I also have a zucchini. This is part of the small countertop herb garden that we decided to build in November.
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Jan 15, 2013 15:12
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Did you really pay off $12,000 on your triangle visa in one month or is that an error? edit: ahhh that makes sense. I've actually been reading the thread and I totally missed that. MrKatharsis fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jan 15, 2013 |
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Jan 15, 2013 15:17
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MrKatharsis posted:Did you really pay off $12,000 on your triangle visa in one month or is that an error? Yes I "paid it off" with a line of credit. And all of toeshoes' debt. The line of credit is the large spike on the right side there.
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Jan 15, 2013 15:36
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Is that... Is that BASIL?
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Jan 15, 2013 16:10
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Put the debts on the negative y-axis and savings on positive. I can't tell if Toeshoes is an asset or a liability  .
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Jan 15, 2013 16:28
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tuyop posted:Don't be so dramatic. I guess I'm not a total furniture frugality superhero like you, but I think you're setting a bit of a false dichotomy. You're doing really well on paying down your debt, honestly. But this will only be sustainable so long as you learn to differentiate between needs and wants and to at least plan for those wants so that you can afford them with savings you've made. Otherwise you're just going to end up back in debt.
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Jan 15, 2013 16:31
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Eden posted:Tuyop, how much did the worm set-up cost you? Because you have to have bought an actual set-up besides the worms (I hope). And where are you planning on sticking it? Don't you live in an apartment? That poo poo gets messy and stinky you know. Vermiculture is a great way to reduce food waste and a well cared for worm bin need not smell. Regular composting is not really an option for those of us living in cold climates for much of the year. If you enjoy fishing you will always have a ready source of worms. In addition decaying food waste in landfills is a primary source of methane, which is a more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. I salute tuyop for this experiment.
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Jan 15, 2013 16:43
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e: I'm retarded and can't read. For content: The ikea was a stupid purchase. Nam Taf fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jan 15, 2013 |
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Jan 15, 2013 16:49
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I think something's wrong with that graph. Does it add the savings to the total amount of debt, subtract it, or ignore it? Really, savings on the debt graph should be a negative number. I would prefer you charge your debts as negative numbers so you see how far "up" you have to go to get to zero. Then a positive savings number would make sense. edit: Engineer Lenk posted:Put the debts on the negative y-axis and savings on positive. I can't tell if Toeshoes is an asset or a liability This is what I get for opening a reply window and waiting an hour to fill it out.
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Jan 15, 2013 16:56
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FrozenVent posted:Is that... Is that BASIL? Yeah, the only problem is that I could have been growing so much more for so much longer. When I get home I'll see about rejigging the graph. The savings are not included in the debt figure at all, I just put it on there for fun, and to see how it looks when I'll have gone from 60k in debt to 45k in savings for a downpayment or something.  It would probably be less confusing if I just took savings off completely, though. The worms are under my sink. I spend a lot of time at work worrying about their wellbeing but they seem to have enjoyed my coffee grinds and don't smell at all. I also haven't talked about my new year's resolution. I'm done eating industrial animal products, so all of our meat will come from local, organic sources where I can actually go and talk to a creature that's like the one I'll be eating. This is philosophically important to me. We bought a 45 dollar, ten pound meat pack from a downtown butcher and it's lasting us two weeks, so this actually isn't that unreasonable. I think we could stretch it out for a month if we just only eat meat 2-3 times a week. If we can't afford it then I guess we'll just go vegetarian.
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Jan 15, 2013 17:27
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The reason I say your graph should be redone is that if you take $10k in savings to pay off debt, your net worth should not change. The amount of debt owed will be less, but it wasn't free.
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Jan 15, 2013 17:34
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Nocheez posted:The reason I say your graph should be redone is that if you take $10k in savings to pay off debt, your net worth should not change. The amount of debt owed will be less, but it wasn't free. It's not a net worth graph, it's a debt graph. The savings and value of my car are not included in the big "total" line. The total is just the straight up sum of all my accounts that are negative.
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Jan 15, 2013 17:48
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tuyop posted:It's not a net worth graph, it's a debt graph. The savings and value of my car are not included in the big "total" line. The total is just the straight up sum of all my accounts that are negative. Hope you've got a more complete version of this somewhere that accounts for your full financial picture. If you want to, throw everything you've got into a google doc and I'd be happy to make something a bit less confusing out of it.
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Jan 15, 2013 17:57
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bam thwok posted:Hope you've got a more complete version of this somewhere that accounts for your full financial picture. Seems a bit premature. If he wants to focus on debt, who really cares that his car is worth $9k or whatever?
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Jan 15, 2013 18:06
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bam thwok posted:Hope you've got a more complete version of this somewhere that accounts for your full financial picture. Thanks, but I just use mint.com and periodically update the value of my car a couple times a year. My finances are really very simple. I have my debts, my bank accounts, and my car. Everything else is in furniture and doodads that could net me a few thousand and don't really deserve mentioning as far as I see it.
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Jan 15, 2013 18:21
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Grumpwagon posted:Seems a bit premature. If he wants to focus on debt, who really cares that his car is worth $9k or whatever? It would be easier to track when he hits positive net worth, which is an important mile marker (kilometer marker?  ) on the way to solvency.
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Jan 15, 2013 18:23
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tuyop posted:It's not a net worth graph, it's a debt graph. The savings and value of my car are not included in the big "total" line. The total is just the straight up sum of all my accounts that are negative. I agree with leaving your car out of the picture - it's a depreciating asset that's pretty illiquid. Your savings are liquid assets and you shouldn't be looking at debt without considering what you have in reserve. Shuffling money from savings to debt shouldn't change the overall picture.
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Jan 15, 2013 21:13
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tuyop posted:Don't be so dramatic. I guess I'm not a total furniture frugality superhero like you, but I think you're setting a bit of a false dichotomy. This just happened to be furniture. It could have been anything. And it likely will be something else in the future. What else is on your list of things you guys want/need? You've got the table and desk taken care of, but you've mentioned needing a new bike, you guys have your wedding, are there any more weddings/holidays you know about that you may want to travel for? Is there anything else on the horizon? If so, have you gotten an idea of the costs associated with these things, set a realistic and reasonable budget and figured out how much you should save for each of these things each month to attain your goal in a timeframe that's suitable for you? You guys just reduced your savings to emergency fund level only so it seems like you'd need to build up some kind of savings again before you can afford these things - do you have a game plan?
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Jan 16, 2013 00:02
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HooKars posted:This just happened to be furniture. It could have been anything. And it likely will be something else in the future. This is something that we will absolutely sit down and talk about. We lost sight of the whole budgeting thing by talking more about being honest about finances and happiness and savings have just kind of been a pleasant side effect. But it's true that budgeting is still very useful and we need to get on that. In the meantime, if anyone wants to look at and slice the data, here's a google doc with my debt levels from May 2011 to Dec 2012. I've made three graphs for debts, assets, and net worth, each on their own sheet.
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Jan 16, 2013 01:38
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