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ynotony posted:BMW announced the 320i as the new entry level 3 series for the US today. The fuel economy is the same as the 328i, I don't really see the point. Perhaps they wanted a competitor to the G25 (Which also seems like a waste of time)
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Jan 15, 2013 23:44
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Badge status. As far as I can tell the e90 323i sold quite well in canada, as did the e46 320i.
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Jan 15, 2013 23:49
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Aside from cost and looks preference, is there any good reason why someone would prefer a North American-spec E36 M3 over an E46? Let's assume that miles or any other individual vehicle-specific traits aren't issues here.
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Jan 15, 2013 23:55
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Aside from cost and looks preference, is there any good reason why someone would prefer a North American-spec E36 M3 over an E46? That said, I have a E36 M3 and love it to death but if it gets wrecked or the engine blows a gasket I'll be in the market for an E46 M3.
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Jan 15, 2013 23:57
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Aside from cost and looks preference, is there any good reason why someone would prefer a North American-spec E36 M3 over an E46? Over an E46 what?
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Jan 16, 2013 00:19
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Crustashio posted:Over an E46 what? An E46 M3. I thought I'd made it self-evident.
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Jan 16, 2013 00:20
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Electric Bugaloo posted:An E46 M3. I thought I'd made it self-evident. I dunno, I'd more put the US-Spec E36 M3 on the same level as a ZHP E46. The E46 M3 seems to be a much bigger beast comparatively speaking.
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Jan 16, 2013 00:28
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Aside from cost and looks preference, is there any good reason why someone would prefer a North American-spec E36 M3 over an E46? No, but then again if cost is no issue why not just go e92 m3 or any other car? A clean e46 m3 is what at least 20K/double a clean e36 m3? An e36 is cheaper if you plan on tracking it although very few owners actually do and does not need valve adjustments. Shachi posted:I'm looking for an E36 M3, either vert or coupe that's in relatively good shape, bone stock, and with mileage under 150k. Is this too much to ask for under 10k? KBB, Edmunds, NADA, and black book all list them for anywhere between 6 on the low end and 10 on the high. Is there a reason why people seem to be selling them for 2-3k more and am I being unrealistic? I have one as well. The issue is that they are so cheap now that anyone can get one and run it into ground with no maintenance to the point that "what does it need" means more than "how many miles?" The ones that need nothing are 10K (above KBB) and holding steady because the owners know that someone is willing to pay a premium for a needs nothing car. If you are not that kind of guy and can do your own work a $5K beater and $3k parts may be an easier route. Most of the cars are not stock anymore either.
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Jan 16, 2013 00:36
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Well, aside from initial purchase price being lower, -Almost complete lack of M-tax. Aside from engine/some suspension parts/brakes/seats, the e36 is basically a regular 3. Anything unique to the e46 M3 tends to be pretty expensive, which is the engine, suspension, brakes, rear end, etc. -Bulletproof engine. S50s/S52s take a crazy amount of abuse and keep going to 250k -Enormous aftermarket support, probably the most of any BMW -Lighter -Subjectively better "handling" feel. The E46 is probably going to be objectively better, but I've seen a lot of people who have gone back because they liked the feel of the e36. But you really have to drive both to make that call. Basically if you want to autoX/track it and not destroy your wallet, the e36 is the way to go. If you just want to put your foot down and bomb some canyon roads, both will be good. If I wasn't tracking my car, I'd probably have gone with an E46 and enjoyed it in stock form. CornHolio posted:I dunno, I'd more put the US-Spec E36 M3 on the same level as a ZHP E46. The E46 M3 seems to be a much bigger beast comparatively speaking. I had a ZHP, and now I have an e36 M3. ZHP is a better daily but it just didn't feel as fun. The lack of LSD (and reasonably priced aftermarket options) is what made me change over. Of course the ZHP vs e36 M3 argument is as old as the ZHP, you really need to drive both and consider what you actually want out of it. I'm hoping the ZHP market continues to fall as I'd like to pick one up again in a few years.
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Jan 16, 2013 00:42
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I just wish you could swap E46 interiors into E36s.
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Jan 16, 2013 00:47
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Keep in mind that the E36 M3's engine is not as durable when it comes to superchargers or turbos as the E46. If you want to mod your car for crazy performance and not have the engine die an early death you might be better off with an E46. This isn't to say that you can't put those in an E36's engine, but it will shorten the lifespan by quite a bit if you do. The crazy lifespan is quite true otherwise though. I bought mine with ~133k miles on it about 3 1/2 years ago. I'm now at I think ~155k miles and it's running better than when I got it (presumably because I'm better about maintenance than the previous owner).
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Jan 16, 2013 01:24
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I am still considering this car: http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=111281 My Friend went and saw the car today and the only issue that worries me is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Uh0_I14q0A So, I guess it needs a valve adjustment according to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heDtcAocDiI Doing a valve adjustment doesn't scare me, but the car is 400 miles away and I don't know if it is OK to drive it that long in the state its in. Is there any risk of damage if I drive it back at highway speed and then fix it. I like everything else about this car and don't want this to ruin it.
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Jan 16, 2013 02:58
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Damage an M30, that's a good one. Just don't rev it to the moon and you can drive it home no problem.
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Jan 16, 2013 03:11
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Kenshin posted:Keep in mind that the E36 M3's engine is not as durable when it comes to superchargers or turbos as the E46. If you want to mod your car for crazy performance and not have the engine die an early death you might be better off with an E46. Interesting. All I've ever heard is that the E46 M3 motor is real strung out and tends to die by 150k whereas the E36 engines are a little bit more stout.
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Jan 16, 2013 03:26
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Mah_Freend_Amee posted:I like everything else about this car and don't want this to ruin it. Take it nice and easy. You wont ruin an M30. Did you ask the PO when the last valve change was done? Ask questions, and if they have looked after the car, they will have no problem giving you a date (or at least humor you) To this M3 chit chat: I would go with a E36 as well. The E46 sounds loving absolutely fantastic when running through the gears. But I would agree with every one else here. The older ones definitely have more "feel" in the driving characteristics. I know when I switched from my E39 540i to my E60 550i, the E60 is by far a superior driving machine, the engine has more power, and the rack and pinion steering is way better than the E39's recirculating ball and less power, less gears in the box (5spd vs 6spd auto)... but god drat, that E39 definitely had a better driving feel when hooned in the corners.
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Jan 16, 2013 09:34
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So I'm starting to consider getting an e46 330ci over the e36 M3. For one there easier to find, and cheaper as well as in better condition. Am I going to sorry. I'm just really sketched out about the aging e36 for the budget I have and getting stuck with something that is only going to last me a couple years. It'll mostly be a weekend car. I have a car for work. For reference I put just under 10k on my Honda in the three years I owned it. I just want something I can take up to the mountains or on a trip and haul rear end in it and enjoy driving. I'm also looking for it to be a small project that I can tinker on. I wanted the M3 because everything I've read says the difference is black and white between it and the 330. It's just tempting to see 330's in way better shape with half the mileage for a third less cost.
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Jan 16, 2013 10:54
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Test drive the best E36 M3 you can find, then test a 330? I'd worry that if you got the 330 when you want an M3, you'd always have that nagging you when you drive it.
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Jan 16, 2013 15:41
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IOwnCalculus posted:Test drive the best E36 M3 you can find, then test a 330? I'd worry that if you got the 330 when you want an M3, you'd always have that nagging you when you drive it. This is the exact mistake I made. Drove a zhp and bought it because I trusted what the internet had so say. Sold it at quite a loss to get my M3. In terms of 330s, don't include non sports in your pricing considerations. lovely seats, steering and suspension. Test drive a zhp and see if the steering feel and various non appearance/interior bits are worth it over a regular sport. The zhp market has fallen and they don't command a 4k premium anymore. The 6spd comes in both after 03, and the suspension will have been redone by now anyway.
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Jan 16, 2013 17:20
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As much as I love my 2004 E46 330ci, if your heart is set on an M3 (E36 or E46), the 330 probably won't satisfy your craving. The M3 is more raw, sharper, and more purposeful in its performance. The 330 isn't a performance slouch, but its more subdued and softer than an M3 in almost every way. The 330 is a great all-around mix of performance, comfort, utility, and affordability, but if you value the driving feel and responsiveness above all else it is no M3.
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Jan 16, 2013 18:56
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Is buying a 1993 325is (less than 150,000 miles) a bad idea as a daily driver/beater? Of course if it checks out up front and is in decent condition, taken care of. What should I expect? I'm a college student, do not have the space/time/tools for any DIY anything.
obeyasia fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jan 16, 2013 |
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Jan 16, 2013 18:58
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obeyasia posted:Is buying a 1993 325is (less than 150,000 miles) a bad idea as a daily driver/beater? Of course if it checks out up front and is in decent condition, taken care of. What should I expect? I'm a college student, do not have the space/time/tools for any DIY anything. I was with you until the last line. If you're not going to have any time/space/tools to DIY, an old BMW is not for you. Unless you're rolling with deep pockets to pay someone else to do it. But if that were the case you wouldn't be looking for an e36, so I'm guessing you don't.
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Jan 16, 2013 19:53
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obeyasia posted:Is buying a 1993 325is (less than 150,000 miles) a bad idea as a daily driver/beater? Of course if it checks out up front and is in decent condition, taken care of. What should I expect? I'm a college student, do not have the space/time/tools for any DIY anything. Yes, that's a bad idea. That is a 20 year old car, and if you don't know how to wrench, a place to wrench and a back up car, your looking at a world of hurt. And the parts wont necessarily break you in cost, its just that its going to need attention. Buy a Toyota Camry or Corolla, drive it through college. Then after you graduate, have a big boy job, and a place to work, buy an old BMW. I am not trying to be mean or anything, its just a cold hard truth. I owned cars like that in college and it was nothing but headache after headache and a constant money pit.
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Jan 16, 2013 19:54
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Thirded. I drove a base 98 civic through university and for a year after until I bought my first BMW, which was a 4k e30. I spent more on the e30 (which was 20 years old) in 6 months than I had on my Honda over 3 years. If you could wrench it would be a different story. E36 parts are generally cheap and they aren't terrible to work on. But having to pay someone to the little parts will nickel and dime you to death. And little stuff WILL fail. I should make a list of what I've replaced on my 328 over the past 3 years.
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Jan 16, 2013 20:52
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Crustashio posted:Badge status. As far as I can tell the e90 323i sold quite well in canada, as did the e46 320i. Would it be possible to up the boost ont he 320 to get it up to the higher levels? I don't see the point of saving only a few thousand dollars for less horsepower.
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Jan 16, 2013 21:27
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Cojawfee posted:I don't see the point of saving only a few thousand dollars for less horsepower. That's because this is AI. Most normal people don't give a poo poo about horsepower or acceleration as long as it can comfortably do freeway speeds - and 180hp is more than enough for that. Just look at the popularity of the crappy V6-powered pony cars (latest generation excepted), 2.slow Volkswagens, etc. I'd never buy a 320i, but I guarantee BMW is going to sell (lease) an assload of them. There's plenty of examples of people giving up power to save a few thousand bucks, much to the chagrin of AI types everywhere. As it is I'm always stuck behind some loaf taking 20 seconds to do 20-60 on an onramp or doing exactly 60 in the passing lane despite the majority of cars sold in the US having a 0-60 of less than 10 seconds and top speeds in excess of 100mph. And the 320i will still be faster than many of them. Guinness fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jan 16, 2013 |
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Jan 16, 2013 21:34
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Everyone posted:Don't do it.  Okay.
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Jan 16, 2013 21:41
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Guinness posted:That's because this is AI. Most normal people don't give a poo poo about horsepower or acceleration as long as it can comfortably do freeway speeds - and 180hp is more than enough for that. Just look at the popularity of the crappy V6-powered pony cars (latest generation excepted), 2.slow Volkswagens, etc. I'd never buy a 320i, but I guarantee BMW is going to sell (lease) an assload of them. There's plenty of examples of people giving up power to save a few thousand bucks, much to the chagrin of AI types everywhere. Echoing this. Its just a status symbol. Again, refer to "your only 20 something years old, how the hell do you drive a BMW" and so on. Its a great marketing tool, and with a high margin car, BMW will be putting more money into the M division or developing other technologies. obeyasia posted:
Sorry man! We are not being mean, just being honest. Just wait for a few years, get some cash then buy an old BMW. Its so much easier to do a project car when you have money!
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Jan 16, 2013 21:47
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obeyasia posted:
Well, if you could change up your living / housing situation, an E36 is a great car to learn DIY repairs on.  Parts are cheap and common, and you can do most things with basic tools. I worked on my own poo poo all through college and never got harassed, but I think I got lucky in some cases.If this is not an option though, stay away until you can do your own work.
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Jan 16, 2013 22:00
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BrokenKnucklez posted:Echoing this. Its just a status symbol. Again, refer to "your only 20 something years old, how the hell do you drive a BMW" and so on. Its a great marketing tool, and with a high margin car, BMW will be putting more money into the M division or developing other technologies. I suppose so. I used to get this a lot and sometimes still do. It's a BMW, not a Maserati. It's worth less than the lovely challengers and hondas that people buy.
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Jan 16, 2013 22:04
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People are weird about brands, and the majority have no idea what things actually cost - especially used. I've got friends that have bought brand new Hondas, Subarus, Toyotas, etc. for 20-25k who think I'm uncle moneybags because I bought a used E46 for 15k a few years ago.
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Jan 16, 2013 22:10
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IOwnCalculus posted:Test drive the best E36 M3 you can find, then test a 330? I'd worry that if you got the 330 when you want an M3, you'd always have that nagging you when you drive it. This what I was afraid of. My apprehension with an m3 at my budget is on the high mileage. I've read time and time again that mileage isn't necessarily a factor on these car compared to proper maint. I would just feel like a sucker to spend 7-9k on a car with 150+ miles on it, which is about all I see at my price range. What's a rebuild like on these cars. I've never done one but have all the tools, time and the space to do it myself. I realize that deciding on a rebuild would be based on a leakdown etc. How beneficial would just doing a valve job be assuming compression is good? SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO SPEND MY MONEY ARHGHGHGH! Seriously I'm stressing myself out. I kind of feel like a sucker selling a 8 year old Honda with 70k on it and trading it in for a 14 year old car with 150k on it. Tell me it's worth it 
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Jan 16, 2013 22:15
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Shachi posted:Seriously I'm stressing myself out. I kind of feel like a sucker selling a 8 year old Honda with 70k on it and trading it in for a 14 year old car with 150k on it. Tell me it's worth it This is a tough part. I am assuming you have owned this Honda for some time, and you know the history of it. Buying a used car is such an unknown as to how well its been maintained and looked after. Especially a car that cost well over $50,000 when it was new... in the mid 90's... which translates to a $70k+ car today. Yes parts are decently cheap, but again, it could be on the verge of needing a new suspension. I am not trying to tell you how to spend your money, its just to keep in mind. But some times when you get in a car, it just feels "right" then that is one to go for.
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Jan 16, 2013 22:22
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obeyasia posted:Is buying a 1993 325is (less than 150,000 miles) a bad idea as a daily driver/beater? Of course if it checks out up front and is in decent condition, taken care of. What should I expect? I'm a college student, do not have the space/time/tools for any DIY anything. Haha no. Bear in mind I've actually owned a '93 325is and currently own a '92 325i that I love. Here is a pic of the maintenance records for the 325i which is in average mechanical condition:  I've had the car 3 years.
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Jan 16, 2013 23:04
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revmoo posted:I've had the car 3 years. "Allergies." Riiiight.
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Jan 16, 2013 23:06
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Those are only for test drives.
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Jan 16, 2013 23:08
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revmoo posted:Those are only for test drives.  But yeah, if you can't wrench on the car at all, buy an old Japanese Import or something with similar reliability. The car will have stuff go wrong, and like has been said before, the parts are comparatively cheap but paying shop labor will kill you in the end. But, if you have a friend who knows how to work on cars and he is able to be persuaded to work on stuff for beer and stuff, that might tip the scale into the "yeah, get the car" side of the equation.
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Jan 16, 2013 23:31
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revmoo posted:Haha no. Bear in mind I've actually owned a '93 325is and currently own a '92 325i that I love. Here is a pic of the maintenance records for the 325i which is in average mechanical condition: You got me curious, so I dug through my records. I bought my 328is with 105,000km 3 years ago, and it now has 205,000. code:code:So yeah. Unless you can do that stuff yourself, then don't go near an e36 or even really an e46 at this point. Just in parts cost alone all the stuff I've done is worth a few thousand.
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Jan 17, 2013 00:16
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Crustashio posted:You got me curious, so I dug through my records. I bought my 328is with 105,000km 3 years ago, and it now has 205,000........giant list.........So yeah. Unless you can do that stuff yourself, then don't go near an e36 or even really an e46 at this point. Just in parts cost alone all the stuff I've done is worth a few thousand. I had the incredible good luck to get my '94 325is from some owners who took fastidious care of almost all of the stuff on Crustachio's list, sunk a ton of time and money into the car to keep it fresh, and garaged it in a cellar every winter to keep it rust free. 99% of (fairly priced) E36's do not have nearly the same history. And even if you found a car like that, I still wouldn't recommend it for a college student living away from home. Hell, I feel bad enough/worried enough that I don't have a garage to cover mine.....Also that I'm moving to Boston with it...  ....And this is coming from someone with (just barely) the means to pay for anything that might come up.
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Jan 17, 2013 00:34
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Shachi posted:So I'm starting to consider getting an e46 330ci over the e36 M3. For one there easier to find, and cheaper as well as in better condition. Am I going to sorry. I'm just really sketched out about the aging e36 for the budget I have and getting stuck with something that is only going to last me a couple years. When I was looking, I drove an absolutely beautiful Alpine White/black leather/aluminum trim 330i sedan. I then drove an e36 M3 sedan. The M3 was slightly faster (and the same price as the e46), but the 330 was lightyears ahead in comfort, interior quality, exterior appearance (imo), ride quality, DD-ability, night visibility (OEM xenons), and pretty much everything other than raw power & handling. The M3 was definitely a more visceral experience, but the 330 was still a pretty agile car compared to all the other luxury same-gen compacts (IS300, A4, CL, G35). Pick up a ZHP knob & short shifter and you've got the M3 shifter action; if you want to go even further, some Bilstein coilovers/ES bushings/misc suspension parts will give you the M3 handling as well. Unless you want to give up all the huge improvements the e46 has over the e36 for the sake of a small HP bump and the improved handling/steering/driving feel of the M3, I would strongly suggest you go for the 330i. It's been my favorite DD of all time, and I spent less than $1k in maintenance in the 3 years I owned it (excluding tires) Keep in mind I went from an 01 330i 5MT sport/premium/CW to a B6 Audi S4, then to a 2005 Mercedes E55 AMG, then to an e39 BMW M5. The e39 M5 is the closest I could come to the way my 330i's interior was laid out without having to give up 200hp and go back to a 330. (The e46 M3 has never been on my list since I need four doors)
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Jan 17, 2013 02:32
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Cobalt60 posted:Thanks for the tip on the vapor barrier, and pardon my US spelling when I ask for more info. That's cool, we in the rest of the world understand that US schools can't teach you how to spell correctly and you drop u's and replace z's with s's all the time. But hey, your schools teach you WAY more about guns than schools in the civilized world do... The vapour barrier is unique to BMW. In the rest of the world it is called the door sound insulation (in BMW forums the names are used interchangeably). There are plenty of videos on youtube of how to access it and repair or replace it. The sealer they install it with can leak, and DIY jobs by previous owners tend to leak like a mofo Captain Postal fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jan 17, 2013 |
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Jan 17, 2013 03:05
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