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I was just about to post that when my wife distracted me for some honey-do; they're used a lot for custom cabinet lighting and exactly what you're looking for. As far as I know, no vampire plug is UL-listed for use mid-cord (just in case having to cut plastic out didn't tip you off...) so make sure all evidence is destroyed in any fire that ensues. If you do this, derate the cable to give yourself a nice wide margin of safety, and don't be tempted to load up a million lights on a 10A cable.kid sinister posted:Woah, mid 90's flashback!
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Dec 14, 2012 23:40
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kid sinister posted:Woah, mid 90's flashback! Nonsense, there's not a single "under construction" gif to be found.  grover posted:I was just about to post that when my wife distracted me for some honey-do; they're used a lot for custom cabinet lighting and exactly what you're looking for. As far as I know, no vampire plug is UL-listed for use mid-cord (just in case having to cut plastic out didn't tip you off...) so make sure all evidence is destroyed in any fire that ensues. If you do this, derate the cable to give yourself a nice wide margin of safety, and don't be tempted to load up a million lights on a 10A cable.
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Dec 14, 2012 23:40
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Bad Munki posted:Nonsense, there's not a single "under construction" gif to be found. Run the math. Power = Voltage * Current. For incandescents, power is in watts, and is just that. If you have 100 1/4-watt lights in a string, that's 25 watts per string. Divide by 120V and you have 0.2A per string. That's 40 strings on a 10A cord. 20% safety margin is a good rule of thumb. If you have 400 1-watt lights, that's 400W per string, or 2 strings per 10A cord. If it's not incandescent lights, then use the max VA of the power supply, or 1.5x the lamp watts for line VA.
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Dec 15, 2012 03:37
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We installed a new thermostat at our house and we're having electrical problems in the laundry room. We have a Trane XL 1200 and we replaced the thermostat with a Nest 2nd Generation. We wired all the connections exactly how they were on the old state and the unit works fine. In the laundry room, since the replacement, the washing machine, dryer and UPS that holds the modem/router are all losing power about every 10-20 seconds even when the thermostat is set to off. The HVAC is on it's own 60A breaker with the laundry room on a 40A. This is an old house, but the wiring is two years old as we had a kitchen fire and the box was located in the kitchen pantry. The HVAC breaker box is on the outside with a 100A breaker from the outside breaker box to the main breaker box inside. The laundry room is on the main breaker box.
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Dec 20, 2012 18:14
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SlayVus posted:We installed a new thermostat at our house and we're having electrical problems in the laundry room. We have a Trane XL 1200 and we replaced the thermostat with a Nest 2nd Generation. We wired all the connections exactly how they were on the old state and the unit works fine. In the laundry room, since the replacement, the washing machine, dryer and UPS that holds the modem/router are all losing power about every 10-20 seconds even when the thermostat is set to off. Seems coincidental. Turn the breaker for the AC off, see if the stuff still happens. I'm somewhat unclear how your laundry room has a 40A breaker for its receptacles and stuff. Usually the 40A is just for the dryer and is 2-pole, and the receptacles (including washing machine) are on a different single-pole 20A.
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Dec 21, 2012 02:49
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SlayVus posted:We installed a new thermostat at our house and we're having electrical problems in the laundry room. We have a Trane XL 1200 and we replaced the thermostat with a Nest 2nd Generation. We wired all the connections exactly how they were on the old state and the unit works fine. In the laundry room, since the replacement, the washing machine, dryer and UPS that holds the modem/router are all losing power about every 10-20 seconds even when the thermostat is set to off. I'm wondering - does the Trane XL 1200 have its own dedicated breaker (likely on a 15amp circuit?). If I were to wager a guess; you might have wired the T-stat in such a way so that the furnace begins the 1st cycle from a call-for-heat by the T-stat; however, if the T-stat is misconfigured, it could be putting your blower motor on full right form the get-go (usually the Trane ramps up the power). If the furnace were somehow wired on the same breaker that holds your router, laundry room lights, and so forth - then it could be that the sudden power draw from the furnace blower motor is tripping the breaker? A way to test this: Does the light in your dryer go out when the router shuts off?
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Dec 21, 2012 03:45
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Could a bad UPS cause the constant problems? Like it's seeing the electricity is on then starts to draw, but causes a brown out on that breaker without actually tripping it? I'm not at home to test any of this at the moment. The Trane has its own 60A breaker on the outside of the house.
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Dec 21, 2012 06:20
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SlayVus posted:Could a bad UPS cause the constant problems? Like it's seeing the electricity is on then starts to draw, but causes a brown out on that breaker without actually tripping it?
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Dec 21, 2012 18:58
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Farside posted:I bought 6 of these over a year ago for $39 and I can in fact say they are awesome. I also bought a bunch of the 40 watt ecosmart ones for $9 and they do give out tons of light. I had to switch out them from my night stand lights to a different brand because they were keeping my wife up. I used these ones instead. Funny you say that, I picked up one of the Ecosmart 40 watt replacements the same day I saw the $25 retrofits. That drat thing is painfully bright, and it seems to throw more light than the "60 watt replacement" 13 watt CFLs I have around the house - probably partly because it's somewhat directional. Also for $9, I figured it was a pretty cheap way to try out mainstream LED lighting. We have a total of 10 R40 cans (4 in the living room, 6 in the kitchen). The ones in the living room still have incandescent bulbs, partly because we just don't use them that much, partly because they're on a dimmer. I may give them a shot in there first; if nothing else, it'll get rid of an issue we've had with one of them cycling (thermal - redid the insulation a few years ago and it probably got covered, and it's buried under a plywood floor in the attic...) SlayVus posted:We installed a new thermostat at our house and we're having electrical problems in the laundry room. We have a Trane XL 1200 and we replaced the thermostat with a Nest 2nd Generation. We wired all the connections exactly how they were on the old state and the unit works fine. In the laundry room, since the replacement, the washing machine, dryer and UPS that holds the modem/router are all losing power about every 10-20 seconds even when the thermostat is set to off. First, the Nest is a low voltage device, powered by a transformer in your furnace - that transformer isn't capable of pulling the kind of power to knock out anything (and if it were to short out, it would either go completely dead, start buzzing really loud and get really hot [and either fry the thermostat or not put out any power], or trip the breaker). So I'm going to go more with "coincidence". Is the breaker panel close to the thermostat? If a wire was already loose, the vibration from screwing the new thermostat to the wall could have made it worse. Second, is your dryer gas or electric? If it's gas, it would be a 120 volt unit (and has the same type of cord as your washer). If it's electric, it's likely 240 (giant rear end plug? probably 240). If it's a 120 volt dryer, that sounds more like an issue either at the breaker panel or in the wiring for the first device on that circuit (probably an outlet or light switch). If it's a 240 volt dryer, are you absolutely sure you don't have a subpanel for the laundry room? If you're 100% sure, is anything else in the house acting odd? SlayVus posted:Could a bad UPS cause the constant problems? Like it's seeing the electricity is on then starts to draw, but causes a brown out on that breaker without actually tripping it? A consumer UPS won't pull more than about 20-30 watts on its own (assuming a dead battery and nothing plugged into it); it uses a small 12 volt SLA (sealed lead acid) battery. If you have a burglar alarm, your alarm uses the same type of battery; if you don't, think of it as a very tiny version of the battery in your car, except sealed instead of vented (still lead-acid, just like the car battery). If you tried to shove, say, 10 amps (which would translate into about 70 amps at 12 volts, given a 70% transformer efficiency, though they usually charge around 13 volts), that tiny battery would pretty much instantly explode - and 10 amps wouldn't come close to maxing out a typical 15 amp circuit. If this is a FiOS or other telco UPS, it's the same type of battery and charging system. Like someone else said, that 40 amp breaker is either for an electric dryer or for a subpanel. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Dec 22, 2012 |
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Dec 22, 2012 09:35
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some texas redneck posted:A consumer UPS won't pull more than about 20-30 watts on its own (assuming a dead battery and nothing plugged into it); it uses a small 12 volt SLA (sealed lead acid) battery. If you have a burglar alarm, your alarm uses the same type of battery; if you don't, think of it as a very tiny version of the battery in your car, except sealed instead of vented (still lead-acid, just like the car battery). If you tried to shove, say, 10 amps (which would translate into about 70 amps at 12 volts, given a 70% transformer efficiency, though they usually charge around 13 volts), that tiny battery would pretty much instantly explode - and 10 amps wouldn't come close to maxing out a typical 15 amp circuit. If this is a FiOS or other telco UPS, it's the same type of battery and charging system. I'm wondering if there's an issue with the UPS? If there's a short somewhere in the battery recharge circuit, a filter cap failed short or whatnot, it may potentially be pulling WAY more than 1A, and I'd naturally expect there to be a short delay until the logic engages it. grover fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Dec 31, 2012 |
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Dec 22, 2012 15:02
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I have a question regarding wiring my new furnace. I want to attach an electrical box to the furnace cabinet side with a switch and receptacle for the condensate pump. I want to use romex through my basement's ceiling joist and protect it with some schedule 80 3/4" pvc conduit I already have, and attach a pvc Carlon 2-gang 2FSE box (I also already have) to the furnace cabinet. To get the furnace 120v wires to the box, I'd have to use a box adapter in the side of the box. I think that would be acceptable, however I'm not 100% sure that the box can be treated as a junction box. The version without the hub (link) notes that you can make holes in it. Anyone have any idea if I can add a box adapter? I've already emailed Carlon with this question, but have yet to hear back.
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Dec 31, 2012 00:43
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it can be used as a j-box and your idea is fine.
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Dec 31, 2012 04:35
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Revisiting an old question I had about wiring a 3 speed motor. I've found this SP3T switch at Grainger but I want to be sure it is the right kind. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/POWER-FIRST-Rotary-Switch-2VLR8?Pid=search#productReviewTabs quote:Rotary Switch, Maintained, Contact Rating @ 125V 13 Amps, Contact Form SP3T, Switch Function Off/On/On/On, Number of Connections 4, Solder Lug Terminals, Panel Mounting Type, Mounting Hole 1/2 In, Stem Length 1/4 In, Standards cULus, ENEC My plan is to wire a 115V, 4 wire, AC motor to this switch for off/on/on/on. Should I be good to go? I don't want to burn anything up.   
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Dec 31, 2012 06:44
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The switch looks good for that motor application. White to common, then red/blue/black for low/med/hi.
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Jan 1, 2013 01:27
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:The switch looks good for that motor application. White to common, then red/blue/black for low/med/hi. After much discussion with some locals they tell me the rotary switch will not last very long because it has no snap and that arcing will cause carbon build up which will cause switch failure (or worse). They also told me that if I switch the common I will hurt myself (I'm not clear on this part but I'm not arguing). At this point I'm down to two options: use a toggle for on/off and only use the rotary while the power is off; or use 3 toggles (spst + 3 way + 3 way) and it might be safe. I've gotten so many conflicting answers from so many people I'm feeling confused. It would be very convenient to switch speeds on the fly but I also want to be safe. I'm sure I'm not the only person in the universe who wanted to use all 3 speeds of a motor but at the moment I'm feeling like it. Any other comments or suggestions before I buy 3 toggles and wire this puppy? (or throw the motor in the trash and buy a DC motor which sounds easier to speed control)
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Jan 3, 2013 04:42
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It might be worth your while asking one more time, over at the electronics megathread. (There's a lot of crossover between that and this thread, obviously, but I think more people read that one and you'll probably get good info.)
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Jan 3, 2013 05:01
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Get a DC rotary switch, a 5v wall wart, and 3 SPST SSRs on eBay. Then you can put it in a pretty enclosure too.
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Jan 3, 2013 06:35
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insta posted:Get a DC rotary switch, a 5v wall wart, and 3 SPST SSRs on eBay. Then you can put it in a pretty enclosure too. You went over my head so fast I feel like a Top Gun extra but I'm intrigued.
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Jan 3, 2013 06:51
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Basically, instead of depending on a manual switch to directly handle the current, you use relays that are better able to deal with it - and control them with a much lower amount of power that a manual switch can handle easily.
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Jan 3, 2013 07:06
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IOwnCalculus posted:Basically, instead of depending on a manual switch to directly handle the current, you use relays that are better able to deal with it - and control them with a much lower amount of power that a manual switch can handle easily. That much I got, kinda, but I would need someone to pretend I'm an electronics illiterate bumpkin and literally map it out for me. I had to google wall wart before realizing I have a drawer full of them.
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Jan 3, 2013 08:20
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wormil posted:That much I got, kinda, but I would need someone to pretend I'm an electronics illiterate bumpkin and literally map it out for me. I had to google wall wart before realizing I have a drawer full of them. Well here's the basics: SPST = Single Pole, Single Throw. This is jargon to describe the different types of switches. Pole = the number of circuits that switch can complete at once. Throw = the number of possible wiring path choices that switch has for each incoming circuit. SSR = Solid State Relay. relay = electronically controlled switch where a low power signal can connect and disconnect another circuit at a much higher power. Solid state = entirely electronics, no moving parts. Earlier relays used solenoids, so they were somewhat mechanical in nature. Because there are no moving parts, there isn't any wear and they last much longer. Insta was recommending to use that a 5V DC wallwart as the signalling voltage to control the relays. 5 volts DC is kind of a standard for electronics. drat near everything uses 5V DC, down to USB connections. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jan 3, 2013 |
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Jan 3, 2013 17:38
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kid sinister posted:Well here's the basics: Thanks. It sounds like I need to study up a bit before tackling such a project but I like learning new things. For now I will stick with the relatively primitive toggle switches but will study the other option for any future motor upgrade. I'm going to keep an eye out for a DC motor.
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Jan 3, 2013 18:33
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wormil posted:Thanks. It sounds like I need to study up a bit before tackling such a project but I like learning new things. For now I will stick with the relatively primitive toggle switches but will study the other option for any future motor upgrade. I'm going to keep an eye out for a DC motor. Dude, I think that switch looks fine, however this switch is HP rated (for motor use). Get that switch and a motor-rated ON/OFF toggle and you're set. Even a "spec grade" 15- or 20A snap switch will work for this application. Note that e-stop switch I linked is totally awesome, and seriously overkill for this. I think that rotary is fine, too. It will arc a little, and you may have some degraded life. I suspect you'll only get 100,000 state changes out of it, instead of what it would normally fail at, 200,000. It's UL-listed for power tools according to the tech spex.
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Jan 4, 2013 02:36
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Dude, I think that switch looks fine, however this switch is HP rated (for motor use). Get that switch and a motor-rated ON/OFF toggle and you're set. Even a "spec grade" 15- or 20A snap switch will work for this application. Thanks, I think it would have been fine too. I was getting a little frustrated with the local old timers who were giving me advice because they kept telling me what not to do but couldn't (or wouldn't) tell me what to do and every idea I came up with they shot down. The final straw was when I talked to Grainger and the tech person told me they do not sell switches rated for electric motors (false) and not to use that switch for my application. So in the end I played it safe and bought toggle switches specifically rated for AC motors up to 3/4 HP. I'm running with the theme and I'm going to make them look vintage with U shaped toggle guards. I thought of adding an LED to the on/off but to hell with it.
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Jan 4, 2013 06:00
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wormil posted:The final straw was when I talked to Grainger and the tech person told me they do not sell switches rated for electric motors (false) and not to use that switch for my application. And yeah, they're full of crap about the rating. Motors draw a LOT of power on startup, it's damned-near a dead short fault until it starts spinning, so it just means the switch has to be beefier to handle the current than you'd need for, say, a light bulb. Doesn't mean it's impossible to design for.
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Jan 4, 2013 13:21
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Ok, I've got a question about a mystery piece of equipment: I was at a large public swimming pool awhile back, and it appeared that the outlets around the pool didn't have individual GFCIs or indication they were GFCI protected. However, at one end of the pool were two wall plates that had an intermittently flashing indicator with a key switch reset and something like "PANEL 22 PH 1" and "PANEL 22 PH 2" on the other. The flashing indicator had something like "alarm" on it. I'll see if I can get a better description - for obvious reasons this is in an area where cameras are probably not a good thing to carry around. I'm wondering if those are some kind of older GFCI system for all the outlets around the pool. There was nothing on the panel that explicity indicated or hinted at their purpose. I'm assuming they were GFCIs. babyeatingpsychopath posted:Dude, I think that switch looks fine, however this switch is HP rated (for motor use). Get that switch and a motor-rated ON/OFF toggle and you're set. Even a "spec grade" 15- or 20A snap switch will work for this application. Square D 30MM maintained rotary switch with 240V 10A NO/NC contact block. The industrial standard (if you're cool with spending $90 on a switch). (Legend plate sold separately... probably another $10-$20.) grover posted:And yeah, they're full of crap about the rating. Motors draw a LOT of power on startup, it's damned-near a dead short fault until it starts spinning, so it just means the switch has to be beefier to handle the current than you'd need for, say, a light bulb. Doesn't mean it's impossible to design for. FUN FACT: I had a medium-voltage motor that had about 300FLA (RMS). On startup the peak asymmetric current was about 4000A peak, about 2800A RMS. That was the component caused by the subtransient reactance, as the motor started to roll it dropped down to only a thousand amps or so until it was up to speed and synchronized. It makes such a lovely sound when it starts. 
Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jan 12, 2013 |
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Jan 12, 2013 15:28
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Three-Phase posted:Ok, I've got a question about a mystery piece of equipment: With a GFCI using the load side all outlets down the line are protected by the single GFCI. So likely that GFCI include an alarm to alert staff. Those panels may rather control a series of pumps.
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Jan 16, 2013 19:52
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I just bought my first house complete with original 1930's knob and tube wiring. The house has a 125 amp main panel with all living room/bedroom lighting/recepticles running on a 30 amp breaker that feeds a fusebox "subpanel". Thankfully the kitchen and bathroom electrical were updated when the previous owners remodeled them so we at least have grounded outlets there. I did a load calculation and came up with only around 90 amps tops so I think the 125 main panel is adequate for now especially since we have all gas appliances (furnace, range, dryer). Eventually I would like to update all the wiring though. Ive gotten an electrician to give me quotes and ideas on how to accomplish this. Ive also been doing a lot of research and bought a few electrical and electrical code books. Since its a fairly large undertaking i've decided to break it down and start by putting a 100 amp subpanel into my attached garage for a number of reasons: -Its more convenient to run branch circuits to the rest of the house from there than the current main panel -I dont have to interfere with any of the existing wiring (ie I cant really make things worse nor electrocute myself) -I want to knock out the crumbling sheet rock in the garage anyways to put in insulation -The garage is my most pressing electrical needs anyways since I need to run a 240v recepticle for our washer/dryer Everything seems fairly straight forward except I cant figure out what kind of cable to run from my main panel through the crawlspace to the subpanel location about 50 feet away. From what I can find online, my realistic options are either #3 THHN copper or #1 aluminum SER run through conduit. My questions are: Is #3 THHN an acceptable feeder cable for a 100 amp subpanel? What about #1 Aluminum SER? If so, where the hell can I get #1 AL wire? I'm planning on talking to the city electrical inspector tomorrow to find out what is acceptable, but I would like to have some idea of what im planning to do before trying to get a permit.
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Jan 17, 2013 08:31
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Home depot carries #1 aluminum, I believe. If they don't you can always go bigger, so 0 or 2/0 would be an option. Question - how are you going to power a 100 amp subpanel and the existing 90a of load off a 120a panel? Maybe I am missing something here.
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Jan 17, 2013 16:10
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kastein posted:Home depot carries #1 aluminum, I believe. If they don't you can always go bigger, so 0 or 2/0 would be an option. Don't use aluminum, aluminum is the root & source of all evil. Doesn't sound like he's adding any load so it should be legal.
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Jan 17, 2013 17:17
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Thaumaturgic posted:I just bought my first house complete with original 1930's knob and tube wiring. If you can find #1-3 romex, you could use that without conduit. Note that I say #1 romex, not#3, as romex is 60C rated so you need to use the lower temperature chart, which requires larger conductors than with a 90C cable like THHN. Not sure if they make it that big, though... A lot of panels only have 75C fittings and can drive larger conductors, but in your case #3 is OK for 100A at both 75C and 90C. grover fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jan 17, 2013 |
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Jan 17, 2013 18:27
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ncumbered_by_idgits posted:Don't use aluminum, aluminum is the root & source of all evil. Correct, im not adding any load. Ive read about the problems with aluminum wire used in branch circuits but from what I can tell theres not really any issues with using it as a feeder cable. I know I need to make sure the panel is rated to accept AL wire and to use noalox on the lug connections. The big factor is the price difference between 4 strands of 50' #3 THHN and 50' of #1 AL SER cable. In any case, I will ask the inspector and see what they say..
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Jan 17, 2013 18:31
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ncumbered_by_idgits posted:Don't use aluminum, aluminum is the root & source of all evil. Aluminum is fine. Make sure to use No-ox and torque your lugs to spec, then check their torques every year when you're changing the batteries in your smoke alarms. I'd absolutely run aluminum for a subpanel here; copper is pretty expensive nowadays. #1 or #1/0 aluminum is fine for 100A. I'd use 1/0 UF and run it bare in the crawlspace under the joists. If that's not an option, then running any type of cable in conduit is a bit of a pain in the rear end, and getting individual conductors in aluminum is as well. I know the big-box stores carry up to 500' spools of SE/SER/UF cable, with a per-foot price that's not outrageous.
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Jan 17, 2013 18:35
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Thaumaturgic posted:Correct, im not adding any load. Cu is a lot easier to pull (it's smaller) and to terminate (less hassle), which is why we've been recommending it. Also, I did double-check and #2-3 is the largest size romex that southwire makes. It's unfortunately only rated to 95C. But that's OK if you choose to feed it with a 90A breaker. grover fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jan 17, 2013 |
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Jan 17, 2013 18:37
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grover posted:Pull in 3x #3 into it with a #4 ground wire. I thought ground wires always had to be as large as the accompanying conductors on that circuit?
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Jan 17, 2013 21:07
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kid sinister posted:I thought ground wires always had to be as large as the accompanying conductors on that circuit? No. See NEC Table 250-95.
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Jan 17, 2013 21:37
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kid sinister posted:I thought ground wires always had to be as large as the accompanying conductors on that circuit? It may also surprise you that there are some conditions where you don't actually have to run a full-size neutral! Of course, there are other special conditions where a 200% oversized neutral is necessary. Both these situations require engineering, though, and you're not likely to run into them in normal household wiring. grover fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jan 17, 2013 |
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Jan 17, 2013 21:38
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Papercut posted:No. See NEC Table 250-95. Color me impressed. The webernets say that it's table 250.122 now though. grover posted:Only for small circuits. For larger circuits, smaller ground wires are permitted. Normally #4 Cu is the smallest you can use on a panel to hook it to the grounding electrode, though since this is a subpanel, he could get away with running as small as a #8 Cu ground and still be legal. I'm not surprised. I can already think of one circumstance where you don't have to run a full-size neutral in normal household wiring: 240v hardwired appliances like AC units and water heaters. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Jan 17, 2013 |
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Jan 17, 2013 21:55
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kid sinister posted:Color me impressed. The webernets say that it's table 250.122 now though. Ha, my cheatsheet may be a couple decades old by this point, yeah. Luckily this type of thing in the code is practically set in stone, they haven't changed it in forever.
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Jan 17, 2013 21:59
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Papercut posted:Ha, my cheatsheet may be a couple decades old by this point, yeah. Luckily this type of thing in the code is practically set in stone, they haven't changed it in forever. I'm looking at the 2011 book right now, and one entry on that table has the revision shading...
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Jan 17, 2013 22:03
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