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Honestly we shouldn't worry that much about Legionaries being unbeatable, as long as it is properly balanced and they make the Roman cavalry mediocre at best it should be fine. I doubt that they will give Rome overpowered poo poo like Praetorian cavalry again, I mean you could crush Companion cavalry with them in the first game which is loving ridiculous. I also think it would be pretty drat boring if every factions late game unit were legionary knock-offs, I mean the best thing about Rome was how differently you had to play different factions. I mean as long as the Romans aren't overpowered it should be fine. Pump it up! Do it! fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 22:36
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Koramei posted:The Roman maniple system is basically flat out better than the hellenistic phalanx This flat out isn't true, the maniple system is alot more tactically flexible than the phalanx, which gives it alot more opportunities to win combats, which lead to battlefield victories. That said though, the use of phalanxes is historically heavily dependent on the quality of generalship and officership leading them. They're not meant to just stand there looking menacing, much as we're taught otherwise. The "Romans style" units are misleading as well, while there was a shift towards heavier individual infantry in the Helenic world it seems to have been more heavily influenced by the invading "Celtic" peoples in the 320s (who smashed the remnants of Alexanders army who had made it back to Greece). Military societies tend to be very traditionalist, but without a doubt hoplites can and did function outside the traditional phalanx. Switching your shield to a tower type may not have been such a big deal? Its hard to know.
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Jan 18, 2013 22:43
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Those provinces are gigantic. Macedonia is 3 provinces while Athens and Sparta are the only two Greek provinces left. Is that an aesthetic map and not the real thing? I know sieges sucked but the solution isn't turning the world into 50 provinces.
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Jan 18, 2013 23:52
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Koramei posted:I dunno, the part of TW games that feels most lacking to me is the late-game for the more tribal and historically less developed cultures. I'd really like to have Scythians and so on that can settle in proper cities and make infrastructure and walls and crap right on the same league as the Mediterranean powers; when you give them a unified empire they'd undoubtedly innovate, there's just nothing in their actual history to put in the game. Alt history all the way! Mods are really the place for hyper-accuracy anyway, the base game is always supposed to be more about fun. I was just saying that the romans having better troops doesn't mean the other sides are doomed midway. You are right about the troop trees, with non-romans you've either got a shallow tree or need to make more and more eliter versions of the same units, or start trying to envision new ones I looked back at my post and realized I wrote it in such a way that it reads as exactly the opposite point I was trying to make! I actually am against historical realism unless it's such that it creates fun or interesting gameplay: the crazy poo poo I mentioned was referring to mods like RTR and EB
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Jan 18, 2013 23:59
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MadJackMcJack posted:TBH, apart from Napoleon, there are better mods for each game (and in Napoleon's case, that's only because the last patch broke most mods and he's one of the few to update his). Not really sure why he has such a large following. I'm usually playing Shogun with radious mods but I tried Darth mod the other day on a whim for a coop campaign. When I started editing his files to amend certain things that were missing I noticed there is barely anything in his mod, like 95% of the weight of it is just some other guys graphics improvement mod, it's pretty pathetic.
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Jan 19, 2013 00:02
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az posted:I'm usually playing Shogun with radious mods but I tried Darth mod the other day on a whim for a coop campaign. When I started editing his files to amend certain things that were missing I noticed there is barely anything in his mod, like 95% of the weight of it is just some other guys graphics improvement mod, it's pretty pathetic. What mod seems more realistic? I've seen posts here where the units added in Radious are not totally realistic. I've been enjoying Darth since I tried it a week ago.
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Jan 19, 2013 08:29
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If you want realism, TRoM3 would be the best, but the modder has been MIA for months and the newest patch broke it.
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Jan 19, 2013 09:02
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Mans posted:Those provinces are gigantic. Macedonia is 3 provinces while Athens and Sparta are the only two Greek provinces left.
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Jan 19, 2013 09:34
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Tarezax posted:If you want realism, TRoM3 would be the best, but the modder has been MIA for months and the newest patch broke it.  sad
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Jan 19, 2013 09:53
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To be honest, almost all mods for SH2 are iffy at best. It's either total hardcore "realism" with everyone having 1 Morale or "improved" gameplay with everyone having 20 defense. I've always found it best to just mix and match from the small mods the community produces, like a slightly better Realm Divide or more sensible diplomacy bonuses. SH2 Vanilla is a pretty good game all things considered. At least on Hard, anything beyond that gets tedious and Legendary is just bullshit. (I still finished a Legendary campaign. Never again.  )
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Jan 19, 2013 10:25
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El Chingon posted:What mod seems more realistic? I've seen posts here where the units added in Radious are not totally realistic. I've been enjoying Darth since I tried it a week ago. DM is limited in scope but playable and better than vanilla, mainly because it fixes the low morale and short battles. Radious does the same plus more interesting changes for the better and his mods are all plug and play so you can omit certain packs if you don't like them. There are two unit packs of his for each Shogun2 campaign, I think one of them does some tweaking and adding of units and the other unlocks everything for everyone and is a little bit crazy. You should check their threads out and decide for yourself if you wish to have either or both of them. Another often overlooked mod that I suggest is "mod_fots_proper_languages" for Fots, it changes the japanese units and agents to speak actual japanese rather than engrish. az fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Jan 19, 2013 |
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Jan 19, 2013 12:00
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Despite CA opening up Shogun 2 modding with that experimental mod kit they threw in with the map maker, the Total War modding community seems to still be incredibly sluggish. I guess locking their games from modding for several years with prototype engines really was a bad idea after all!
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Jan 19, 2013 15:11
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So, something I found amusing. You know the Total War Center thread that was linked earlier, with that loopy Roman fetishist arguing that really the Romans didn't really enslave or conquer THAT much? Turns out he made another thread earlier where he cited Shakespeare as a historical source for Roman behavior and values, and told a CA representative that in RTW1, well...Batshit Insanity posted:
or elsewhere Where did they get this guy? posted:
That's right, folks, CA is demonstrating a clear bias against Rome because their soldiers shout too much in battle, making them appear barbaric and uncivilized.
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Jan 19, 2013 15:54
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Make that nerd walk 50km per day while carrying full battle gear and supplies, train with extremely heavy wooden gear until his fighting moves are not rational or thought actions but mechanized, instinctive moves and have him march off through Gaulia or Iberia and see if he doesn't start shouting like a madman after two hours.
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Jan 19, 2013 16:10
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Also, I seem to recall the Romans not being this strange civilised cuddly sanitised version this person seems to think they are. They were honestly very bloody minded due their religion and ethics culture and were genocide happy as the results of Julias Caesars Gaul campaign tell us. But hey, internet fascists gonna hate on the truth.
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Jan 19, 2013 17:12
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While you probably have to dig a little to find out about Roman atrocities (popular history tends to be quite sanitised) I'm not really aware of much beyond books for children that say the Romans were super civilised or anything. Popular culture certainly doesn't, films like Gladiator or Spartacus and TV shows like Rome portray Rome throughout its' history as brutal and bloody. In other news there has been a brief update about Stainless Steel 7.0 with perhaps the biggest piece of news being the person in charge of the massive MOS submod is now working on Stainless Steel.
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Jan 19, 2013 17:37
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I have a feeling these guys think modern popular culture more or less correct Rome is biased to their slanted and crazy views on history. I also have a feeling they have actual enemy lists.
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Jan 19, 2013 17:46
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That guy is crazy wrong in basically every way. Even if you wanted to take his analysis seriously he's wrong. I think we can safely assume that the factions in Rome are represented primarily from a Roman viewpoint, hence the fact that you even have "barbarians". So, for instance, representing the Greeks as some sort of noble philosophers makes perfect sense, considering that the Romans were obsessed with how cool the Greeks were. On a less crazy-land note, am I the only one who finds Medieval 2 to be one of the hardest games in the series? All of the other TW games I could start my first campaign on normal difficulty and win. I finally have a game as Venice where I've mostly stabilized, but it took three tries or so to get a game to that point. Even now I'm abusing crossbow heavy armies in order to trade in a cost effective manner and I have to spend so much on armies that it's starting to cripple my economic growth. To be fair, I never thought of bribing the pope, so I may need to try that. Though I did manage to get one of my guys elected several times. Basically, almost all of the Catholic nations hate me and have since pretty much the first turn. It's hit the point where I'm actually allied with Egypt, the Turks and the Moors. All I wanted to do was go on crusades and kill infidels. Instead I'm allied with them and stuck killing Christians. Now I know a little of how leading the Fourth Crusade must have felt.
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Jan 19, 2013 18:17
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FOTS question. Finally got a handle on the economy. Playing as the Tosa, and I've united the island they start on. I've started pushing into Honshu. However, clan after clan is flipping to the Shogun. The Satsuma somehow hosed up and are barely holding on to a single province on their island. So basically I'm the only pro emperor clan left with more than two provinces. Am I screwed? Can I flip them back somehow?
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Jan 19, 2013 18:21
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:FOTS question. Finally got a handle on the economy. Playing as the Tosa, and I've united the island they start on. I've started pushing into Honshu. However, clan after clan is flipping to the Shogun. The Satsuma somehow hosed up and are barely holding on to a single province on their island. So basically I'm the only pro emperor clan left with more than two provinces. Am I screwed? Can I flip them back somehow? As far as I know, the only thing you can do to actively increase the number of pro-Imperial clans is making vassals out of already-conquered, pro-Imperial clans. Other than that, since you're Tosa, you can focus on seapower and take control of the waterways since you have a natural chokepoint on that small island connecting you to Honshu. Then you can marshal your land forces to take the western island while blocking off reinforcements from Honshu by parking a fleet on the connection between them. Try and take advantage of the situation: you're basically playing a Republic game except you retain your agents and don't have to do all that political conversion to your affiliation again!
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Jan 19, 2013 18:36
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Also, really tech boom and train up some Ishishin Agents to your max limit and cause as much Rebellions as possible.
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Jan 19, 2013 18:47
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Lemony posted:That guy is crazy wrong in basically every way. Even if you wanted to take his analysis seriously he's wrong. I think we can safely assume that the factions in Rome are represented primarily from a Roman viewpoint, hence the fact that you even have "barbarians". So, for instance, representing the Greeks as some sort of noble philosophers makes perfect sense, considering that the Romans were obsessed with how cool the Greeks were. I don't recall that Medieval 2 was unusually difficult, but I do remember the reinforcement/recruitment system being the most annoying of all the series I remember playing - all the other games allow you to essentially churn out as many troops as you have cash and recruitment slots, and from Empire onwards you didn't need to micromanage reinforcements. In general, though, I personally find the key to Medieval 2 to be breaking the economic system over your knee, which is honestly pretty simple - most of your spending cash will come through trade, and while external trade routes are useful, you ultimately make more money by controlling both ends of a trade route. Unless you have specific need of strategically-placed castles, always make ports cities, and do the same for any inland cities with rich trade goods like gold or silver, particularly if the cities in question are well-connected. This is particularly handy for Venice and Genoa, given their powerful city militia units - they don't need to compromise as much between wealth and power. When making rich cities (in vanilla), the most important thing is to upgrade your shipyards, as they add a new trade route and thus dramatically improves income. This is actually a bug - the merchant dock upgrades should be offering this advantage instead of the shipyards, but it never got fixed as far as I know. So upgrade your shipyards, and after that just spend on what's affordable and improves trade (merchant buildings, roads, wharfs, etc.) Remember to use high-chivalry generals to give small, fledgling cities the boost they need to upgrade into something with ports. And, naturally, once you've got a lot of good trade going, for heaven's sake don't neglect your navy to keep your trade routes open. You can also make a pretty coin if you're willing to micromanage a bit with merchants - get like five or six of them, train them on whichever weak merchants you can track down or local monopolies until you've assembled the lot, and then stick them on a boat to drop off near Constantinople or Egypt. Both places are far away enough and have enough valuable trade goods that a decent merchant could make 600 per turn, while really good merchants can make...well, I seem to recall at least around 2000+ for Byzantine silk, maybe more. There's a slight danger of the spots in question already being occupied by more experienced merchants, but in a pinch save-scumming or assassination can deal with them - or just avoiding them and hogging slightly less valuable, but still rich resources. Keep in mind that merchants get bonuses to their skill if you can secure a monopoly - that is, keeping all the resources of any particular type in one province occupied by your merchants. Also, pounce on weak merchants whenever possible - not only does this train your merchants, you get a decent one-off cash boost as well when you succeed. Trade aside, it's also fairly useful sometimes to check the "fertility" rating on the settlement detail screen, the one detailing stuff like public order, population growth rate, etc. As I recall, provinces with high fertility ratings usually offer decent returns if you invest in farming. All that being said, keep in mind that coastal cities are your main income source, with inland cities usually being something of a drag on your resources (unless they possess rich trade goods). If you've been forced into occupying a lot of inland provinces for strategic purposes, particularly in the fairly poor Balkan region, it'll be understandable that you'll end up with an army larger than your actual resources can afford (the Holy Roman Empire in particular is prone to this problem, due to its geographical situation). Try either changing the direction of your expansion to cover more coastal provinces, or even (if need be) withdrawing to a more defensible line. Don't be afraid to shift your capital away from its historic center, too, to reflect the new center of balance for your empire - this helps cut down on corruption. It's kind of a shame that you're allied with the Egyptians and the Turks - the entire area around Alexandria is very rich, and holding the coasts of the Eastern Med in general offers a lot of possibility for wealth, as long as you can afford to priest-bomb the provinces into Christianity and your capital isn't too far away. Oh, and if everyone hates you, try checking your honor rating - if you've been executing a lot of troops and sacking/razing a lot of cities, you rack up considerable dishonor and thus hate. Further, never trust the Italians or the Poles - all three factions (well, two in your case) are literally programmed to backstab you the moment it seems useful.
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Jan 19, 2013 19:10
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NihilVerumNisiMors posted:To be honest, almost all mods for SH2 are iffy at best. It's either total hardcore "realism" with everyone having 1 Morale or "improved" gameplay with everyone having 20 defense. I've always found it best to just mix and match from the small mods the community produces, like a slightly better Realm Divide or more sensible diplomacy bonuses. SH2 Vanilla is a pretty good game all things considered. At least on Hard, anything beyond that gets tedious and Legendary is just bullshit. (I still finished a Legendary campaign. Never again. I totally agree with the annoyance on the rebalance mods. They feel less balanced and just add more annoyance to the game. "Units are now dramatically more durable" isn't a plus for me.
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Jan 19, 2013 19:27
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SeanBeansShako posted:Also, I seem to recall the Romans not being this strange civilised cuddly sanitised version this person seems to think they are. They were honestly very bloody minded due their religion and ethics culture and were genocide happy as the results of Julias Caesars Gaul campaign tell us. Pretty sure he's completely alone in that though, I mean one of the few things the populace at large knows about the Romans is that they drove nails through your hands and feet and left you up on a big wooden cross to die a miserable death from exposure / infection / hemorrhaging / being gutted by a random passerby. They contributed a ton to civics, but god drat if you weren't one of the happy few the Romans were straight up douchebags.
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Jan 19, 2013 19:58
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NihilVerumNisiMors posted:To be honest, almost all mods for SH2 are iffy at best. It's either total hardcore "realism" with everyone having 1 Morale or "improved" gameplay with everyone having 20 defense. I've always found it best to just mix and match from the small mods the community produces, like a slightly better Realm Divide or more sensible diplomacy bonuses. SH2 Vanilla is a pretty good game all things considered. At least on Hard, anything beyond that gets tedious and Legendary is just bullshit. (I still finished a Legendary campaign. Never again. I tried a legendary campaign on vanilla the other day, it was rear end rape after rear end rape, I can't think of another clan to choose for this difficulty other than Shimazu or Date, because of the location.
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Jan 19, 2013 19:58
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I haven't really looked to see what the differences are when jumping to very hard, but the weirdest thing I notice is machine gunning ashigaru archers. Their reload time seems incredibly lower when I am fighting against them. Bug?
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Jan 19, 2013 20:15
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Zyla posted:I haven't really looked to see what the differences are when jumping to very hard, but the weirdest thing I notice is machine gunning ashigaru archers. Their reload time seems incredibly lower when I am fighting against them. Bug? I think their fire rate is always high (although not preposterously so), but it does seem like they get an accuracy boost on hard+. Maybe it just seems like that since the AI masses archers more at those difficulties, but they're definitely a pain. The biggest difference between hard and very hard though is that the AI starts noticeably cheating. Like, they will churn out so many stacks that the game takes a turn for the frustrating instead of the nice-difficult you get on hard. I posted a while back about having to fight 6 full stacks at once incredibly early in the game, and it's only gotten worse since then. Also maybe it's just me but I feel like the RNG for the autoresolve starts corresponding less to the troop values and more to "gently caress you you lose".
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Jan 19, 2013 20:36
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The AI gets to poo poo out highly experienced units from scratch, which might account for the increased rate of fire. Edit: The biggest problem with VH/Legendary is that you can never, ever unfuck yourself. If you make a mistake during the first few turns the endless stream of doomstacks will get you. If only CA could figure out how diplomacy ought to work... NihilVerumNisiMors fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Jan 19, 2013 |
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Jan 19, 2013 20:37
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SeanBeansShako posted:Despite CA opening up Shogun 2 modding with that experimental mod kit they threw in with the map maker, the Total War modding community seems to still be incredibly sluggish. Do the CA mod tools allow people to modify the campaign map, or is it just for making multiplayer battle maps? Lemony posted:On a less crazy-land note, am I the only one who finds Medieval 2 to be one of the hardest games in the series? All of the other TW games I could start my first campaign on normal difficulty and win. I finally have a game as Venice where I've mostly stabilized, but it took three tries or so to get a game to that point. Even now I'm abusing crossbow heavy armies in order to trade in a cost effective manner and I have to spend so much on armies that it's starting to cripple my economic growth. To be fair, I never thought of bribing the pope, so I may need to try that. Though I did manage to get one of my guys elected several times. Tomn's advice should probably be more than enough to get you going, but it's also a good idea to secure a couple of alliances with other Catholic nations as soon as you can. Preferably at least one that borders your territory so that you can send your troops conquering in the opposite direction without having to worry about unexpected invasions.
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Jan 20, 2013 07:10
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I appreciate the replies, but I think I may not have been entirely clear on my problem. I've put a lot of time in to pretty much every TW game, with the exceptions of the original Shogun and Medieval. Managing cities and trade and such isn't so much an issue, I mean if I really wanted to I could just play England and build up my economy. I actually have a game where I've one that, it's just that playing England all the time can get kinda boring. My problem is more that every single nation around me went to war with me within 4 turns. The HRE allied itself with pretty much every other nation in Europe and dragged them into our war. The Byzantine Empire decided to ally itself with them as well and joined in. Obviously I probably could have done something better at the start and I feel like I must have neglected diplomacy a little too much. It feels like it's much more important than in many of the other TW games. I'd actually probably be not too badly off if the single city that Milan managed to hold on to, which is way in the middle of nowhere, didn't manage to keep generating stacks of troops every couple of turns and using them to siege their former capital. Even at that, I think that once I manage to take out Sicily I'll be in a decent position. Roughly speaking that'll give me all of Italy and a couple of castles in the Alps. I haven't even attempted to move out beyond the mountains since that'd take me too far away from my supply lines. Thank god for crossbow militia, because they're a large part of what's kept me alive.
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Jan 20, 2013 07:46
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The honor system in Medieval 2 is pretty annoying. Another key point is that you lose honor per turn, per war, at a steady rate and gain honor per turn per alliance the same way. So if you don't get into alliances quickly, that first war will lower your honor, which will make it more likely to get a second war, etc etc until everyone hates you.
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Jan 20, 2013 17:31
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Spaceman Future! posted:Pretty sure he's completely alone in that though, I mean one of the few things the populace at large knows about the Romans is that they drove nails through your hands and feet and left you up on a big wooden cross to die a miserable death from exposure / infection / hemorrhaging / being gutted by a random passerby. They contributed a ton to civics, but god drat if you weren't one of the happy few the Romans were straight up douchebags. How could you say that? The Roman's are well known for having taken control of the middle east using peaceful means. Aka protection from "barbarians".
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Jan 21, 2013 00:24
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Some Medieval 2 mod news; The version 0.69 of The Sundering (the other Warhammer mod) has been released. They're slowly moving from the High Elf-centric origins of the mod to a larger map of the old world with most of the Warhammer races playable. At this halfway stage a number of the armies for the new factions are available in custom battles. This trailer shows off some of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz4eeLpMf_A More info here. Additionally With Fire and Sword II the sequel to a RTW mod has received an English translation. Based on the same novel / setting as the Mount and Blade game it covers C16th and C17th Eastern Europe and the Near East. It looks good but from what I understand the translation isn't especially good.   More info here.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:49
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ReV VAdAUL posted:Some Medieval 2 mod news; The models for this mod look unbelievable, the amount of work they've put in is insane. I wonder how it all animates, there are quite a few models with skeletons quite different from regular MTW2 units.
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Jan 22, 2013 07:08
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trashcangammy posted:The models for this mod look unbelievable, the amount of work they've put in is insane. I wonder how it all animates, there are quite a few models with skeletons quite different from regular MTW2 units. For the most part the animation is great. Flying units look a bit goofy but that is mostly a product of Medieval 2 never being meant to have flying units. The Sundering may not be as flashy as Call of Warhammer but it is a great mod with a sensibly tight focus rather than CoW's kitchen sink approach.
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Jan 22, 2013 12:43
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ReV VAdAUL posted:They're slowly moving from the High Elf-centric origins of the mod to a larger map of the old world with most of the Warhammer races playable. That's the only part that's a shame, because a game based entirely on the Sundering and the War of the Beard would be great.
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Jan 22, 2013 15:02
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Lemon Curdistan posted:That's the only part that's a shame, because a game based entirely on the Sundering and the War of the Beard would be great. I dunno, I got tired of the Sundering after two successful campaigns (one as Nagarythe and one as Saphery) just because all the armies are basically the same except for a few units. You can even hire the more unique units from each faction as mercenaries so there doesn't seem to be much point in playing again.
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Jan 22, 2013 17:45
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So now that SEGA owns both Creative Assembly and THQ Canada/Relic Entertainment, does that mean we can begin to hope for a Warhammer 40k: Total War? A man can dream!
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Jan 25, 2013 10:17
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No, SEGA did not acquire the 40k license, it went back to Games Workshop. However, Relic has good contacts with GW, so it's entirely possible they can regain the license, yes. It would be loving awesome. 40k really fits the Total War style battles well: ranged is not overpowering, melee is always viable, the basic troops are big and relatively weak units, and every side has a core of extremely powerful units in low supply. It's just like shogun 2 but with lasers and spacemens!
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Jan 25, 2013 11:27
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Samopsa posted:No, SEGA did not acquire the 40k license, it went back to Games Workshop. However, Relic has good contacts with GW, so it's entirely possible they can regain the license, yes. It would be loving awesome. 40k really fits the Total War style battles well: ranged is not overpowering, melee is always viable, the basic troops are big and relatively weak units, and every side has a core of extremely powerful units in low supply. It's just like shogun 2 but with lasers and spacemens! I can see it working with Epic 40K, but not plain 40K since that heavily involves small-squad tactics that Relic is better at than CA since RTS is their wheelhouse. Though as much as I would enjoy watching 40K in a truly epic setting, I think CA would do better in Warhammer Fantasy first since they can work on having multiple weapon/soldier types in a single unit and "hero units" in that setting without having it muddled by 40K's more complicated mechanics like vehicles and infantry taking proper cover.
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Jan 25, 2013 11:57
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