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Scott Bakula posted:I liked this final season but Peter and Olivia committing mass murder regularly in fairly spectacularly gruesome ways and then never caring about it has been a bit weird.
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Jan 20, 2013 19:45
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Cojawfee posted:That was Charlie Francis. Awwwww, Charlie would have been a good cameo. I was really hoping he'd show up for one line, just something like a, "hi, Liv," upon seeing A-Olivia, then doing a kind of silent double-take or something. It isn't like Kirk Acevedo has a whole lot going on, right? Scott Bakula posted:I liked this final season but Peter and Olivia committing mass murder regularly in fairly spectacularly gruesome ways and then never caring about it has been a bit weird. Like hollylolly said, their goal was to completely reset the timeline at an earlier point. None of them--including that future version of Peter and Olivia--would have existed, so I guess they were going with an ends-justify-the-means sort of endgame. SamBishop fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jan 20, 2013 |
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Jan 20, 2013 21:00
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Goodbye Fringe, it was a good run 
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Jan 20, 2013 22:36
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Accretionist posted:Season 5 Fringe team is what Season 1 Fringe team would've fought. Odd vibe but I liked it! Even the Fringe weapons came full circle and found use in a war against otherworldly invaders. I think season 1 Fringe team would probably be fighting the Observers. It hard to judge them on similar standards considering differences in the state of the world.
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Jan 20, 2013 22:40
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Also think of the beginning of the season with the loyalist that they spared. However, once Etta died all bets were off.
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Jan 20, 2013 22:43
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They killed a bunch of people, but really, it was for the "greater good". If the Plan succeeded (which it did), the murderin' future would have never happened and those people would have gone on to live out their non-Hitler youth lives in peace.
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Jan 20, 2013 23:08
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Spacebump posted:I think season 1 Fringe team would probably be fighting the Observers. It hard to judge them on similar standards considering differences in the state of the world. Well Fringe division in 2036 was technically tied to fighting "native crime" (probably tied to fringe science) so... Fringe division was sorta fighting them. (honestly though it would have been nice for Mr. Hume to have been around to provide a perspective on that Fringe division other than Broyles)
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Jan 21, 2013 00:24
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hollylolly posted:Their end goal was resetting the timeline so those people wouldn't even be born yet. Plus, they were all disgusting Loyalist scum. See, for this reason alone I feel like maybe that whole "Peter is turning into one of them because of the tech" storyline was a waste during this final season. The goal is to reset time, so gently caress it. Go buck wild with the tech. Wont matter anyway since we'll reset it all. Besides, it would have made for a better final battle if Peter was able to take on observers left and right. Opposed to just aimlessly shooting into the fog machines. Think, we could have had observer-Peter and cortexiphan Olivia kicking rear end.
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Jan 21, 2013 01:33
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Jack Skeleton posted:See, for this reason alone I feel like maybe that whole "Peter is turning into one of them because of the tech" storyline was a waste during this final season. They didn't know that the plan was to hit the reset button at the time that Peter was going Observer.
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Jan 21, 2013 02:11
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Jack Skeleton posted:Think, we could have had observer-Peter and observer+cortexiphan Olivia kicking rear end. Corrected for potential awesomeness.
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Jan 21, 2013 03:48
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Has any show done a good fight like that? It doesn't seem like writers are very creative about super power usage.
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Jan 21, 2013 04:12
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The most creative use of powers I've seen is from Misfits. There's a guy that gets the ability to manipulate milk/dairy and it's way more dangerous than you'd think.
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Jan 21, 2013 04:25
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Mu Zeta posted:The most creative use of powers I've seen is from Misfits. There's a guy that gets the ability to manipulate milk/dairy and it's way more dangerous than you'd think. Then the rest of the characters forget that they have powers 90% of the time.
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Jan 21, 2013 04:26
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Femur posted:Has any show done a good fight like that? Heroes was very good at not showing you the good fights.
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Jan 21, 2013 04:51
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Alcholism Rocks posted:Corrected for potential awesomeness. But if the cortexiphan abilities are activated by emotional states, the observer tech would ruin that capability.
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Jan 21, 2013 05:07
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Plotac 75 posted:But if the cortexiphan abilities are activated by emotional states, the observer tech would ruin that capability. My idea has been defeated by cold, hard, emotionless logic.  Well, she could've jumped from Earth A to Earth B and back again with the observer tech, and then when time was reset, it wouldn't really matter. I'm still slightly curious how the device Peter used to merge the worlds still happened to exist even when Walter would've had no reason to build it. Then again, I suppose it had to exist in order for the worlds to have been merged...but then wouldn't there have had to have been a reality/timeline where it didn't exist at all? Did sending it back in time a bazillion years guarantee that it would exist in all other timelines? I hope the Fringe books explain this. Alcholism Rocks fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jan 21, 2013 |
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Jan 21, 2013 05:12
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Jack Skeleton posted:See, for this reason alone I feel like maybe that whole "Peter is turning into one of them because of the tech" storyline was a waste during this final season. I've been critical about a lot of the storylines, but I liked this arc. Maybe it should have been a season long one, but I thought the idea behind it was to show that human emotions are a good thing and what makes us better than the Observers. That all the powers mean nothing if you don't have emotions. They also didn't really know about resetting the timeline till the end, just that they were going to destroy the Observers. When Peter is a darker character, he's at his best. For all the plot holes, the one that bugged me the most was why the Observers would warp from place to place with ease but then decide to take a car somewhere. I wish we would have gotten a little less of the resistance stories early on in the season and more into how the Observers work and more into their background. They still ended the show as mysterious characters that don't have a detailed backstory. That's sort of an example of my problem with Fringe. What made it just a very good show and not a great one in my eyes. They never gave fulfilling answers to mysteries. ZFT, Sam Weiss, Mr. X, Observers, First People, and so on. Sure I can dig up and find an answer online to most of these, but they never seemed to be satisfied in the show in the manner they should have been. Maybe they just didn't have the writing chops to do it, or maybe they thought leaving them open would add some complexity to the show. I just think if you build up something, you should give a payoff. Instead it felt like they would built up something and then figure out they had written themselves into a corner and just pretend that stuff never happened. Also, this stuff is more irritating if you watch the seasons back to back. I originally watched the 5 seasons as they unfolded on TV, but recently went through all of them on DVD. You forget stuff between the months when shows aren't running. But when watching them close together, it's more irritating when something they build up ends up just going away. Sam Weiss had a real mysterious background and practically nothing about him is answered in the end. Niwrad fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 00:26
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Niwrad posted:I've been critical about a lot of the storylines, but I liked this arc. Maybe it should have been a season long one, but I thought the idea behind it was to show that human emotions are a good thing and what makes us better than the Observers. That all the powers mean nothing if you don't have emotions. They also didn't really know about resetting the timeline till the end, just that they were going to destroy the Observers. When Peter is a darker character, he's at his best. The first ones were explained pretty well. Walter sent the stuff back and the first ones were the people who discovered it. Sam Weiss was just a red herring. It was just a family name and tied into the first ones. Observers they explained pretty well and as for Mr. X is was obvious it was Belly.
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Jan 22, 2013 00:33
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bobkatt013 posted:The first ones were explained pretty well. Walter sent the stuff back and the first ones were the people who discovered it. Sam Weiss was just a red herring. It was just a family name and tied into the first ones. Observers they explained pretty well and as for Mr. X is was obvious it was Belly. I don't think Sam Weiss was meant to be a red herring. I think they just couldn't figure out how to answer the mystery behind his character. And I wouldn't say it was obvious that Mr. X was William Bell. It was a pretty big discussion point after the season. Required an interview from Wyman to confirm it. An interview that Wyman gets one of the biggest plots of the season confused in his own answer. For what Mr. X was built up as, it was not a satisfying conclusion. And they gave us an overview of the Observers, I just thought it could have gone into greater detail. They were the most intriguing characters of the series and I would have loved to have had more background on them, more insight into their lives, more insight into their future society. The nightclub scene with them in season 4 was never expanded on in season 5. They just sort of ended up being your generic antagonist in season 5. I'd have liked more scenes of them interacting with one another or explaining their mythology, they were one of my favorite parts of the show. Can't think of who wrote it, but there was a reviewer who summed up this area of their writing well. They sometimes would mistake confusion for complexity. That they would add things to the story that did nothing but add confusion. Like I've said, it's a very good show and I enjoyed it a lot. The finale was about as perfect as you can ask for. Just that on a quick re-watch going into this season, a lot of the problems with the writing became more apparent.
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Jan 22, 2013 01:04
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Yeah, it seems like the writers were more than happy to plant seeds and then if they didn't feel like following through, just stopped watering them and let them just sit in the dark. I know this ending was probably a lot better than most series get, but with it already known that this was going to be the final half season, it seemed like there was still some fat to trim and time better used.
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Jan 22, 2013 01:27
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Medullah posted:They killed a bunch of people, but really, it was for the "greater good". If the Plan succeeded (which it did), the murderin' future would have never happened and those people would have gone on to live out their non-Hitler youth lives in peace. I knew that, and the thing I didn't understand was when they were just a few hours away from pushing the reset button Olivia felt she had to save Broyles. Then I realized why when they were in the van: all the people in that van driving to the final battle, except Michael, were main characters who had been with the show from the beginning and in almost every episode. Including September.  You had to have Broyles.
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Jan 22, 2013 06:57
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Astroman posted:all the people in that van driving to the final battle, except Michael, were main characters who had been with the show from the beginning and in almost every episode. except Nina 
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Jan 22, 2013 08:16
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hangedman1984 posted:except Nina I thought that for a sec, but she was really a lot more recurring than even Broyles or Astrid.
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Jan 22, 2013 08:21
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The best thing Fringe ever did was anything involving the Other Side. Just the brief visit we had in the Finale was one of the stand out pieces. Fauxlivia being undercover, brainwashing Olivia etc. The Observer Storyline just got stale and honestly a bit dull.
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Jan 22, 2013 09:23
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Astroman posted:I thought that for a sec, but she was really a lot more recurring than even Broyles or Astrid. I'm not entirely sure what Astrid actually did for most of the show. Was she Walter's assistant? Was she stealing his notes? I guess it's a moot point now...
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Jan 22, 2013 09:25
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She did the FBI research stuff that supported their investigations. And she babysat Walter, who was really confused and adjusting for the early season. I think all procedures have a character like her. She is also incredibly cute. Astrid B even cuter!
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Jan 22, 2013 12:58
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Andrew_1985 posted:The Observer Storyline just got stale and honestly a bit dull. Count me in as also disappointed with the Peter/Observer tech story arc. It could have ended better. Ultimately it came off as mostly pointless.
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Jan 22, 2013 13:19
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hangedman1984 posted:except Nina Sometimes I feel they only hired her since she was in Altered States and it was a big infulence on the show.
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Jan 22, 2013 14:26
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Femur posted:She did the FBI research stuff that supported their investigations. And she babysat Walter, who was really confused and adjusting for the early season. In retrospect, I just think it's weird that someone would be willing to babysit someone like Walter. I mean, even when he had bits of his brain removed and acted slightly retarded, he probably still had a much higher IQ than most people did. I used to wonder why she didn't request a transfer since she didn't really seem to do anything to solve the cases. Maybe she was just waiting for the moment when she would be able to unleash chemical and biological warfare on people. 
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Jan 22, 2013 17:48
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I think she got stuck with Walter because of low rank.
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Jan 22, 2013 18:36
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Alcholism Rocks posted:In retrospect, I just think it's weird that someone would be willing to babysit someone like Walter. I mean, even when he had bits of his brain removed and acted slightly retarded, he probably still had a much higher IQ than most people did. I used to wonder why she didn't request a transfer since she didn't really seem to do anything to solve the cases. She is FBI. Her assignment was Walter and she really had no choice. She later grew to like him and he trusted her.
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Jan 22, 2013 18:37
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She really has a thing for Cows and Papaya and the FBI didn't know they were sending her into the equivalent of a crack den for an addict. Edit: I think it's more that once you go Fringe, where are you going to go? If you got to work on cases like that, I think it's a compelling enough reason to stay. Plus, she got to assist on most of the procedures that Walter did so it would be satisfying intellectually. She's pretty much Igor. Or perhaps Agor.
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Jan 22, 2013 19:22
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Ape Agitator posted:She really has a thing for Cows and Papaya and the FBI didn't know they were sending her into the equivalent of a crack den for an addict. She had a nasty milkshake addiction and they were sending her into a den of sin. She also had a redvine problem. bobkatt013 fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 19:24
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One of my top 3 "gently caress you, Fringe!" was when Asteroid got shot. Her last moment with Walter and Gene was all sorts of
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Jan 22, 2013 19:45
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:One of my top 3 "gently caress you, Fringe!" was when Asteroid got shot. Just watched this, the look of terror and confusion on her face was absolutely what I imagine you would be feeling if you were shot square in the stomach. So my Fringe watching ended with the season 4 finale, which is pretty darn happy except for September/Donald telling Walter "they're coming."
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Jan 22, 2013 19:56
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A dodge for "if observers never existed, then how did September save Peter, etc, etc" which occurred to me today: What if the observer science team was separated from existence somehow, outside established events, "outside of time"? It seems like this was implied during September's plot dump to Peter, and during various other episodes. It seems like it would be essential, really, to keep them from accidentally erasing their own existences by eliminating "important" people. It would also explain how Michael was able to be aware of the other timeline, and what happened to Peter - they became "special", they became outside of time, like the team of 12. Anyway. That's how I'm justifying it to myself, and it makes me feel a lot better about how things went down. Observers "never existed" in the new timeline, but the timeline where they did existed at some point, and in that timeline, twelve observers were broken off and placed outside of time, in a kind of fifth dimensional existence. I'm also still convinced that the observers are actually from the future of Universe "B", and they originally created the machine and used it to create (or bind an existing) nearby parallel universe "A", so that they could invade their own past without the obvious issues. Which goes a long way towards explaining the lack of observer activity in Universe "B".
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Jan 23, 2013 02:19
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I feel pretty comfortable that Walter would recognize the need to replicate pre-2015 Observer behavior for both the importance in his own history and their own value as archaeologists. He's definitely going to send someone back to save him from the lake and there's really no harm in what they did prior to the invasion. They might even look similar given that Michael looks like an Observer.
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Jan 23, 2013 02:25
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Ape Agitator posted:I feel pretty comfortable that Walter would recognize the need to replicate pre-2015 Observer behavior for both the importance in his own history and their own value as archaeologists. He's definitely going to send someone back to save him from the lake and there's really no harm in what they did prior to the invasion. They might even look similar given that Michael looks like an Observer. Well, that's if you ignore the part where an observer distracted Walternate when he was brewing a cure for Peter B... Also, December raped Olivia B. Alcholism Rocks fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 02:33
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FlamingLiberal posted:In terms of aborted plot lines, the one that stands out the most was the whole ZFT/John Scott nonsense. They had to kind of end that whole thing when that actor went off to star in another show, but a lot of the stuff teased about what Massive Dynamic was doing with Scott's body seemed to get dropped. I agree, but I also feel that the Fringe team in season five are a nice parallel to ZFT. They were essentially terrorists with a single intention in mind. In fact, the climax of the series is very similar to the first gunfight with Jones opening the portal.
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Jan 23, 2013 02:57
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Alcholism Rocks posted:Well, that's if you ignore the part where an observer distracted Walternate when he was brewing a cure for Peter B... Not ignore, this is all necessary parts of fulfilling their past. Distracting Walternate is as important as saving Peter.
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Jan 23, 2013 04:39
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