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OGS-Remix posted:If you're playing harder difficulties, you get a lot more weapon fragments/corpses each mission. For example Impossible has 12/10/6 in the first three missions as compared to like 4/4/4 on normal, so that's $48 which is almost another satellite. Basically what this guy said. It also heavily relies on when you get your missions, as the UFO showing up a day late or not getting a council mission before the 17th can really screw you over if you're shooting for 4. Always build satellites one at a time so you can cancel if needed. Excavate right away for space to build a workshop, hope for your first abduction before the 7th (although I think that may be guaranteed?) and always take engineers. Then you have a choice between building your workshop or rolling the dice on getting a second abduction mission before the 17th. Building the workshop is far safer, but taking engineers from the second abduction is your best shot at getting 4 satellites up in month 1. Hope your first UFO shows up by the 10th, so you can let it go and get a medium scout to show up on the 11th. Sell everything and buy satellites. Then hope you get your council mission before the 17th, and that it rewards enough money to build your uplink on the 17th. Launch on the 31st and roll in the dough.
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Jan 22, 2013 01:31
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For satellites what I do is 1 satellite in Month 1 (99% of the time it's given to the US), then one satellite receiver and three more satellites in month 2, then a nexus and seven (I think) in month three. To pay for it I just vendor all my corpses and a couple of UFO parts. I also ignore the Foundry and only get the OTS for squad size. My plan is to scrape by until I've got a ton of satellites up at which point you will have cash pouring in. It's a bit slow, but I usually only lose 1 or two nations (usually in South America). It also helps to restart your game if you don't get at least two steam spots in your base. gently caress not having steam.Coolguye posted:Pretty much canon if you consider UFO Defense though, where you got funding at the end of the month and you were like "oh cool something to wipe my rear end with while i'm taking a bath in the proceeds from the last ufo". Incidentally: Oh, I don't think it should be a viable economy, that would be silly. I'd be fine with being able to sell them off at a loss, but it's doubly weird since unless you're using the 'lose all gear when a dude dies' option then you never really need more than 3-4 plasma rifles, 1-2 plasma snipers, etc.
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Jan 22, 2013 01:34
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Shalinor posted:... and I have no idea how you guys are getting 3-4 satellites up by end of month 1. I struggled to get 2 up, unless you're counting the freebie I think you start with already in air? Also as far as the money goes I pretty much do what you said, though. I hock everything except weapon fragments, ~10-15 elerium, and ~20 alloys. Everything else goes. I occasionally run into timing problems like everyone's talking about. That really sucks, but it's typically not a deal-breaker in the early game slingshots out of suckhood. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 01:38
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Shalinor posted:OH. I was wondering why it seemed like I had more of those. If you're winning Classic without needing to spam satellites, then you can save all you want. Satellite spam is really only needed on impossible since panic rises so quickly you can very easily lose 3-4 countries a month if you get unlucky with abduction mission locations/mission timing. You only need a fixed number of weapon fragments as well, depending on what you want to research. So a bit of metagame knowledge can help out your early finances. Similarly, knowing which number of corpses to save for which foundry projects is helpful as well.
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Jan 22, 2013 01:41
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Shalinor posted:OH. I was wondering why it seemed like I had more of those. Even on Impossible weapon fragments are still going to bottle neck your research. Its why trying to jump from standard to plasma weapons is a terrible idea, because even with a ridiculous number of labs to speed research you just won't have the fragments to get Heavy Plasma or Plasma Snipers in a reasonable amount of time (going early Plasma also speeds up Muton deployment). That research bottle neck also makes SA's bonus completely worthless, as you'll have plenty of downtime to do interrogations and autopsies. I'd say sell some fragments in month 1 if you have to for satellites, but after that never again. Alloys will bottleneck your production, especially when you want to start making Titan armors, and doubly so if you make any satellite nexuses or Elerium generators. I usually save raiding the alien base for when I need alloys but haven't had a UFO in awhile (or missed one, missing a UFO sucks hugely). By the time I start making things with elerium (titan armor, plasma weapons) I find that I have just enough to get most of what I need, although maybe the sniper runs around in skeleton armor with a laser sniper for a few more missions after the Assault gets decked out in Titan armor with an Alloy Cannon. One tip for extending your supplies: never make light plasma rifles or regular plasma rifles, no matter how early you unlock them. Capture the LPRs and wait for your enemies to upgrade to full rifles and capture those.
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Jan 22, 2013 01:43
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Yeah, after my early attempts to slingshot to light plasma rifles and how awful that turned out, I can't recommend anyone ever try that. And I do have problems with fragment bottlenecking even on Impossible quite often, I never sell weapon fragments and I very often don't fulfill Council requests that require them.
Coolguye fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 01:47
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Coolguye posted:Yeah, after my early attempts to slingshot to light plasma rifles and how awful that turned out, I can't recommend anyone ever try that. And I do have problems with fragment bottlenecking even on Impossible quite often. Plasma research in general is kinda hosed. A captured muton is so god damned useful. I have a game right at the end of month 1 and I have a captured plasma pistol and light rifle and they're 28/30 days respectively. It also doesn't help that scientists are kind of useless after a while so focusing on getting them early helps with research, but...I'd rather just get more engineers and build more workshops.
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Jan 22, 2013 01:57
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India just offered me 4 scientists for 5 cyberdisk wreakages... fuckers can ask someone else to rescue them next time they're in trouble I'm done with them.
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Jan 22, 2013 02:15
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WeaponBoy posted:Plasma research in general is kinda hosed. A captured muton is so god damned useful. I have a game right at the end of month 1 and I have a captured plasma pistol and light rifle and they're 28/30 days respectively. It also doesn't help that scientists are kind of useless after a while so focusing on getting them early helps with research, but...I'd rather just get more engineers and build more workshops. There's definitely a balance issue with Scientists in that they have a real sunset date, but it's somewhat balanced by the fact that the sooner they get to that sunset, the better off you are. Essentially though, I think it's telling that in a normal game, I build 4 Workshops and 2 Laboratories.
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Jan 22, 2013 03:53
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Edgecase posted:Waaaaaait a minute. I don't recall ever seeing a laser or light plasma do 6 damage on a critical. Only 7 and 9, come to think of it. Drat recall bias. Now that you mention it, there is scuttlebutt that minimum base damage for crits is always +1, so you might be right about that. I've been searching endlessly for people in the mod forums to crack the damage calculations, but the best I can come up with is that the damage distribution for normal damage is probably 50% base damage, 25% each for either +1 or -1. Crit damage is always +50% round down, and may be +1 to base damage. Headshot sniper damage is still a little puzzling.
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Jan 22, 2013 03:56
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Is there anything in place where your 90% hit chance with rockets actually depreciates the further from the rocketeer? Because in consecutive turns, that fucker Chilong just shredded and rocketed my entire A-team in the month 4 C/I terror mission. Then he got crysallid'd 10 satellites, a squad full of captains, majors, and colonels, and my entire game's shot to hell because terror missions are the only ones I don't do a 3/3 split with vets and relative newcomers.
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Jan 22, 2013 04:03
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FairGame posted:Is there anything in place where your 90% hit chance with rockets actually depreciates the further from the rocketeer? No. There's always a fixed 10% chance that the rocket will just hit the tile next to the firer.
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Jan 22, 2013 04:06
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sexual Norm posted:Is there a guide anywhere on how to install the Implassic mod? I've tried unzipping into into the binaries folder but I really have no idea what I'm doing. nnnotime fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 04:23
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After how easy Far Cry 3 just was to beat I think I need another bout of Ironman Impossible to crush my soul. I can't believe it's been like 4 months since I played this last...
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Jan 22, 2013 04:33
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I think the thing that amazes me most about XCOM is how by just a few missions in, I care about these stupid faceless soldiers so loving much.
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Jan 22, 2013 06:40
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So I poured enough time into this game for three playthroughs in the last few days, and I have a number of unrelated/newbie questions that could probably be summed up by asking: does anyone know of a general tactics guide for this game, preferably with some math to it (what different covers are worth, etc)? For instance, I keep seeing folks saying that using Hunker Down frequently is essential on Classic and Impossible, but I'm not sure how to arrange my squad to take advantage of hunkered soldiers, other than with Squadsight snipers. Also, a satellite question: is it better to focus on locking down continents one at a time, or use them as stopgap measures for high-panic countries? Or for the money? Muscle Tracer fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 07:11
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Muscle Tracer posted:So I poured enough time into this game for three playthroughs in the last few days, and I have a number of unrelated/newbie questions that could probably be summed up by asking: does anyone know of a general tactics guide for this game, preferably with some math to it (what different covers are worth, etc)? For instance, I keep seeing folks saying that using Hunker Down frequently is essential on Classic and Impossible, but I'm not sure how to arrange my squad to take advantage of hunkered soldiers, other than with Squadsight snipers. Hunker Down is your default "I don't really have anything better to do right now, but I'd like to not die" button. The most obvious use is when you're moving an Assault up a bit before you throw on Run & Gun for a kill shot, but to move them forward you have to stick them in low cover. Hunker will make their low cover count as full. As far as what different covers are worth, the basic way you should think about it, from least desirable to most is:
A conservative, safe way to play is to figure that if you have cover that is one level better than the aliens, you have a fair fight. Even cover situations (e.g. you both have a lot of high cover) will generally favor the aliens. Concealment is what you want to strive for most because the aliens cannot shoot at what they cannot see, and if they have to guess at where you are it's more likely they'll make a mistake. If you're coming from Normal, you are used to the aliens every so often making a dumb move that effectively gives you a free kill - the AI is hobbled and literally has to roll a die to see if it's gonna be retarded every time it goes to move an alien. You will not see this anymore on Classic and above. If you want your easy kills you will have to fool the AI. quote:Also, a satellite question: is it better to focus on locking down continents one at a time, or use them as stopgap measures for high-panic countries? Or for the money? I've heard the meta-game discussion advanced that it is actually to your benefit to leave Argentina uncovered so it will continue to experience abductions. In purely pragmatic terms this is probably true; you can count on one mission there per month, and the rewards will easily outstrip the extra little bit of money you get from them (I think they're +60, so +78 with All In, and We Have Ways is pretty useless if you have 2 Labs). However, by the time you're getting to that phase in the game, you probably want to save your strength and focus on the bigger battles. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 07:35
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Coolguye posted:Helpful words about hunker + cover I think you hit on it quite nicely there. I also recently obtained and poured too much time into Bloodbowl, so I feel like I'm making a tactical transition from Star Wars: Battlefront to Splinter Cell or something equivalent. I think I've been taking the idea of the best defense being a good offense a bit too far, and therefore taking potshots or Overwatch when movement or just hunkering would be better. That said, is there a good guide or resource for actual game math about things like cover, defense, the effect of will on psionics, etc?
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Jan 22, 2013 08:15
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I second the leaving a few countries uncovered idea. Its a good way to continue generating abduction missions for rewards, and you'll never miss the money once you have most of the world covered. A thing I've found is that 4 satellite uplinks will cover 12 countries, which can be Asia, Europe, and one other 3 nation country (typically the US for me) plus your home country (I like to start in Africa). This gives you 4 out of 5 continent bonuses without having to build a super expensive satellite nexus, and We Have Ways is a pretty terrible bonus anyways. You will have lab downtime while you gather weapon fragments, do your alien researching then. On Impossible I try to grab at least one high dollar country in month 1, then use the rest of my satellites to manage panic. Unless the panicking country is in SA or Africa, then I use that satellite on money. Month 2 I start trying to consolidate continent bonuses, favoring Europe over Asia over NA. Cheaper labs and workshops are awesome, and the only Future War upgrades I *need* are Squad Size I and II, which are pretty cheap. Everything else is icing that can wait til Month 3. Cheaper interceptors is nice but its not going to break the bank, at least not until month 3 when you start building firestorms and ships that 1 interceptor can't reliably drop start regularly showing up. On cover, I never take a shot if I have less than a 40% chance to hit (45-50% later in the game). At that point hunkering down or retreating and setting up an overwatch trap is a much better option. You can also use grenades and rockets to blow up enemy cover, but don't go overboard because you're probably going to want to use that cover yourself at some point. Someone made an excellent post on overwatching earlier in the thread. You take a penalty to overwatch shots, -20% I think, and aliens never move if they know they're being overwatched (they can see you). So basically if you hunker they'll move in and may try to take a shot at a low hit percentage, but if you overwatch they'll just stand still and definitely shoot at a dude who doesn't have the hunker bonus. I typically only mass overwatch if I didn't reveal a pack on my turn. Any aliens that wander into view will have to eat 4-6 reaction shots, and some of those are bound to hit and tip the next turn in my favor. On higher difficulties I think some of the stuff I overlooked on classic become gold. Suppression is awesome for keeping your dudes alive in a tense firefight, or for breaking an alien overwatch when you don't have a Lightning Reflex assault available. Flush is gold against Mutons in high cover. Overwatch a sniper and then flush him out with an assault. Rockets are glorious.
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Jan 22, 2013 08:32
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quote:As far as what different covers are worth, the basic way you should think about it, from least desirable to most is: Let me translate this for you: Exposed/no cover - completely hosed Low Cover (+20 defense) - almost certainly hosed High Cover (+40 defense) - probably hosed Concealment (break LoS) - weird LoS bugs mean you're most likely still hosed
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Jan 22, 2013 08:41
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General tip for classic: Whenever possible, kill every alien the turn they show up. Even if it means blowing a rocket, it's worth it. Why I love In The Zone, despite good arguments for doubletap. Seen it turn more than one clusterfuck into a pile of dead mutons, leaving none of them to go after my guys.
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Jan 22, 2013 09:00
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You guys on PC are really missing out on the COD dimwits we get on Xbox Mp. Getting called a "camping human being" 20 times in 2 turns by some borderline retarded redneck and him never even getting a shot in is glorious.
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Jan 22, 2013 09:29
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NESguerilla posted:You guys on PC are really missing out on the COD dimwits we get on Xbox Mp. Getting called a "camping human being" 20 times in 2 turns by some borderline retarded redneck and him never even getting a shot in is glorious. Back when it was still possible to play multiplayer XCOM in Australia, I once beat a guy with an Ethereal and two Sectoids, using a Sectoid Commander and the rest of my team being Sectoids, by mind-controlling his Ethereal with my Commander. All I got in response was 'ur not a real commander'.
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Jan 22, 2013 09:42
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Haha. That's pretty great. This guy was literally the most hilarious person I have ever played against. I dashed out to cover and by the second turn I hear some redneck drawl going on about camping faggots and how I better stick around after he beats me. So I pop out and he had lined his entire team up behind destructible half cover. I then ran my SC into his visibility range and he said "mind control me I'll still beat you human being". So I grabbed my mic and told him "nah I'd rather just blow you up" and lobbed an alien grenade at him, destroying his cover and crippling his whole team in the process. then I just killed him with the rest of my squad in 1 turn. I poo poo you not this guy called me a human being at least 20 times over the course of this 4 minute match. :thatsxbox:
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Jan 22, 2013 10:11
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chiasaur11 posted:General tip for classic: I'm not going to waste a rocket on a single Sectoid, unless it's the last guy in the mission. I save my rockets for guys behind cars (had 3 mutons piled up behind a car once. Rocket + instant car explosion = sweet sweet muton giblets) or when I really need someone up or its cover. Besides, sometimes you just want to maneuver your men in a better position. I can stick one of my guys in full cover and have him hunker down, and go for the kill in the next round. That practically makes him untouchable (even better if I get a smoke on him).
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Jan 22, 2013 10:18
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chiasaur11 posted:General tip for classic: In The Zone is amazing in a lot of circumstances. Double Tap is good, but I probably like In The Zone more, ever since my sniper killed five Chrysalids in a single turn.
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Jan 22, 2013 10:50
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I always win my fights on classic, but last night I actually said "gently caress this" and I went for the extraction zone, aborting the mission after losing 2 guys out of 5. The reason being: I somehow managed to trigger all enemies on the map, 8 thin men, who were all in the same position. I shot a few, but it quickly went down south. However, the extraction zone didn't actually appear. I reloaded (which makes it reappear), made one different move and suddenly I was shooting thin men left and right. I actually feel sort of cheated, as I legitimately was going to abort a mission for the first time. So, still no lost battle. I tried an impossible game! Headed into the first mission with the standard 4 rookies. I shot the first 2 sectoids without problem, then murdered another 3 sectoids with relative easy. But the last two sectoids somehow managed to wreck my poo poo. They shot one of my guys in full cover down to 1 health. Another guy, also in full cover, was crit to death. This resulted in a third person panicking and running into the flank of an enemy .. completely exposed. Of course, panicked, so unable to move away. Grenades don't insta-kill sectoids in impossible, and rookies can't hit for poo poo. So, down to 2 men where one has 1 hp. Despite flank shots, they couldn't kill anything. Despite full cover, they got minced. Despite not losing a single mission in Classic, the first mission in Impossible was a failure. I then loaded my classic save-game and continued that campaign.
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Jan 22, 2013 11:00
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This game is awesome. I had carefully positioned my guys safely all hidden or in full cover with only one Floater in sight. It was under overwatch and flanked so normally it would be braindead. However in my infitite wisdom I decided to let my Heavy try a dodgy shot as the last thing I did that turn just to kill it so I can move on next turn with everyone. Of course he misses and blows away the wall behind the Floater. Exposing my best assault that was behind that wall. In the enemy turn that floater killed the assault. It is a bit like playing rougelikes if you don't savescum. If you play tired or not really paying attention you will get punished.
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Jan 22, 2013 11:46
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I'm not really enjoying the fact my soldiers in Classic seem to be categorically unable to shoot the broad side of a barn, much less an alien. The aliens meanwhile seem to be sharpshooter extraordinaires capable of one-shotting pretty much everyone, wich understandably causes my troops to panic quite a lot. Does anyone have any advice for moving into Classic? I think I'm gonna need it.
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Jan 22, 2013 12:15
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Cleretic posted:I'm not really enjoying the fact my soldiers in Classic seem to be categorically unable to shoot the broad side of a barn, much less an alien. The aliens meanwhile seem to be sharpshooter extraordinaires capable of one-shotting pretty much everyone, wich understandably causes my troops to panic quite a lot. Throughout the thread, maybe the OP and whatever, there are many posts on how to manage your sats and such, and for combat. For combat there are a few simple tips: - Always get into high cover if you can. Low cover is better than no cover, but it's not much. - Hunker down + low cover = full cover, basically. - gently caress thin men, those bastards have a +10 to aim and can hop over containers and whatever. - If you have an alien in sight, suppressing him or going into overwatch will prevent the alien from moving. This means you can lock him in place, but it will also force him to fire at one of your guys. Aliens seem to go into full panic mode when you have them flanked, and locked into place with overwatch/suppression. They won't even fire, usually. Maybe a bug, I dunno. There are many other tips but blah. Also, watch Ironman Impossible by Beaglerush if you haven't already. They are fun to watch, and they show you what to do and what not to do. Sometimes it's better to have a guy hunker down in good cover and potentially let him get shot at, while you move your team into better positions. Trench warfare in X-COM is dumb and you'll probably lose or get shot up a lot. Iceshade fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 12:52
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There are 2 main ways to play a tactical squad-based game like X-COM, or Jagged Alliance, or whatever. Note this is pretty basic and could be wrong but whatever. #1- Overwatch/Interrupt Trap. This is how it's recommended you play in this thread, and how I'm getting through my current run. You push ahead, find the enemy, maybe fire a few shots at him (in TU-system games, anyway) then pull back... where the rest of your team is in ambush. The enemy follows, and gets ventilated. It works in JA2 by having gunners and snipers with AP left getting interrupts It works in X-COM with judicious use of Overwatch. Remember- if the aliens can't see the soldier, they don't know they're in Overwatch and will gladly run up for some free bullets. #2- Blitz A lot more dangerous, especially in X-COM if you accidentally activate a dozen more aliens in the process. But against a small number who are dug in tight, or a large number who really really REALLY need to die. Now. Well, this is how you do it- You run your guys in and unload point blank. That's really about it. It takes some preparation, slowly advancing to the jump off points and maybe keeping them pinned with Suppression or even just regular Overwatch, but if it comes down to racing in a shotgunner to close range or running a grenadier into the open to get a good angle, or attempting to out-snipe a dug-in Muton, go with the former. Who Dares Wins, Victory Without Peril Brings No Glory, yadda yadda that kind of mentality. Hell, this is the whole reason Assaults exist. Overwatch immunity + dashing then shooting + having a loving 12 gauge = shove that thing up their arse.
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Jan 22, 2013 13:28
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Paingod556 posted:It works in JA2 by having gunners and snipers with AP left getting interrupts Wow, you talking about JA2 makes me really wish you got to choose your interrupts in this game. Nothing like having your dead-shot sniper take an overwatch shot on an already deceased enemy while there's two others rushing into view behind him! Or ... or ... even better - the Cyberdisc shows up and everyone overwatches the drone! Now  !
RadioDog fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 15:12
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Muscle Tracer posted:That said, is there a good guide or resource for actual game math about things like cover, defense, the effect of will on psionics, etc? Will on psionics is a little more hazy since clicking More Info will just give you the shot math again. But with what you can actually control it's just "MORE WILL IZ BETTUR". Beyond that it's stuff like intrinsic difficulties for powers.
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Jan 22, 2013 15:17
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Great OP, Coolguye! I would suggest adding a link to Beaglerush's YouTube channel, as many posters have found his demonstrations of high-level tactical play quite eye-opening. Yeah, he's barely updating anymore, but what he's already produced is very high quality.
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Jan 22, 2013 15:46
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Tibeerius posted:I would suggest adding a link to Beaglerush's YouTube channel, as many posters have found his demonstrations of high-level tactical play quite eye-opening. Yeah, he's barely updating anymore, but what he's already produced is very high quality. Everyone should watch his stuff because it's wildly entertaining, but he massively screws up the base management and makes a ton of
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Jan 22, 2013 18:34
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Does anyone know anyone who is super pro doing non-multiplayer videos anywhere? Most of what I find are lovely hour long total blind or vague idea run
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Jan 22, 2013 18:56
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etjester posted:Everyone should watch his stuff because it's wildly entertaining, but he massively screws up the base management and makes a ton of
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Jan 22, 2013 18:59
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Coolguye posted:There's definitely a balance issue with Scientists in that they have a real sunset date, but it's somewhat balanced by the fact that the sooner they get to that sunset, the better off you are. Four? Pffffffffff. Yeah, total overkill, but the refunds are pretty awesome. It's kind of annoying that it doesn't improve build time, but then I find that your base is 90% useless in the endgame anyway. I kind of wish there was more your base could do in general to keep it relevant.
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Jan 22, 2013 19:07
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Irony Be My Shield posted:He usually acknowledges the mistakes as he goes along though. It helps to see what happens if things go wrong too anyway. The more important thing it's really hard to NEVER make mistakes and seeing how he deals with errors is important too. It also adds verisimilitude that he's not acing everything as some save scummers do.
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Jan 22, 2013 19:14
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I may not even have the chamber up yet, but I'm gonna get your plasma rifle you little floating fucker. Chase him around, get on the flank, blow up the cover with a grenade and bring him down to 1 hp. Herding the aliens.
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Jan 22, 2013 19:28
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