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Shimrod posted:I was hoping you guys would be able to help me out, Ninja250.org and google have failed me. Acquire the FSM and find out how to do it yourself, not knowing how it's supposed to be done will keep you from calling bullshit effectively if a shop is trying to dick you around. Plus you honestly do want to be able to do most work yourself, bike mechanics tend to be a bit of a crapshoot(in my opinion) when they're not old-timers who have been wrenching longer than you've been alive. The only thing I don't do is tires and balancing, and that's just because I don't have space for the mounting tools and an air compressor in my garage currently. Motorcycles are dead simple to work on and require almost no special tools. Since it's (likely) not your DD, if you make a mistake putting it back together you aren't out your main mode of transport. You just get a lesson on doing things right and a better understanding of how and why your machine actually works. E: I read back and evidently it is your only mode of transport. Take what I said as you will then, that raises the stakes a bit in terms of repairs and time. Kilersquirrel fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 06:17
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Shimrod posted:Would you guys be able to tell me if the stator cover needs to come off any any stage to redo the cam chain in a ZZR250? Usually I'd trust them but when I had a look at the bike in their storage area there were a few parts off it and the stator cover side of the bike was the only ones I could get a look at and I'm positive it was off. Maybe. The timing marks (to line up the new chain) are behind the stator cover. But some engines have 2 plugs you can take out to access the flywheel bolt for turning the engine over and another hole to see the timing marks. If your bike has these it's a good chance they didn't remove it. But even then most stator covers aren't holding in oil so I'm not sure why it would leak. Most are just there to keep water out of the electrics. Either way it sounds like it's time to find a new shop.
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Jan 22, 2013 06:27
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They don't magically start leaking without someone pulling the cover. It's not an old triumph. Find a new shop.
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Jan 22, 2013 06:56
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Is it stat-tor or stay-tor? I say both but stay seems right.
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Jan 22, 2013 08:03
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I've always said "Stay-tor" but what the gently caress do i know.
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Jan 22, 2013 08:07
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I suppose that technically it should be "stat-tor" because it's the "static" part of the alternator. But everyone I've ever heard say the word out loud says "staytor," so V  V
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Jan 22, 2013 08:12
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obso posted:Maybe. The timing marks (to line up the new chain) are behind the stator cover. But some engines have 2 plugs you can take out to access the flywheel bolt for turning the engine over and another hole to see the timing marks. If your bike has these it's a good chance they didn't remove it. But even then most stator covers aren't holding in oil so I'm not sure why it would leak. Most are just there to keep water out of the electrics. Apparently that's the case*, I went in today to clear things up in my head and they showed and explained the process for the cam chain for me. I'm going to fix the leak myself, it's easy to do and will take an hour or so, plus it's a good chance to stickybeak inside another part of the engine. Regardless, paid them $20 for the labour they did yesterday for me (fiddling with the carbies) and it seems to be running better. Clutch isn't dragging anymore (that I've noticed, I'll be on the lookout for it for a while). They said it's been leaking for a while (probably before I got it from what they said) and there is a fair bit of grease there, but it's only a tiny tiny leak (in the 4 days it was at their workshop they had 1 drip :/) they just said it had heated up when I was at the traffic lights because I had to start and stop the engine a few times and a buildup caused the steam I saw. That part sounds a bit iffy to me, but I'm no mechanic and can't rule it out. Thanks for the advice guys, I had wanted to do all the work myself and I do have the service manuals for the bike but I couldn't really find/figure out the cam chain part. e:*I should point out that a fair part of my confusion was from chatting to other people with bikes that seemed as confused as I was because they'd done cam chains and had to go through the stator to do the timing.
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Jan 22, 2013 09:26
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Sagebrush posted:I suppose that technically it should be "stat-tor" because it's the "static" part of the alternator. Mind blown. V That too. Dagen H fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 12:47
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Sagebrush posted:I suppose that technically it should be "stat-tor" because it's the "static" part of the alternator. But everyone I've ever heard say the word out loud says "staytor," so V I always took it to be stator is the stationary part and rotor to be the rotating part, hence stay-tor. Stat-tor sounds too much like starter
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Jan 22, 2013 15:15
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Slavvy posted:Simplicity, ease of production, 'it's always been that way', and people being accustomed to it are all pretty compelling reasons for sticking with something that's cheaper and simpler than the alternative. It's also a legal requirement in most of the world that all motor vehicles have two, independent, braking systems, so even linked-brake systems still have a foot brake.
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Jan 22, 2013 15:47
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echomadman posted:Stat-tor sounds too much like starter All I can imagine here is some guy from Boston getting mighty pissed at someone in a "Who's on first???" kind of way.
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Jan 22, 2013 16:13
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epalm posted:Maybe this will peg me as a new rider (only a couple bikes and a couple years of experience), but, aside from high-performance situations (racing), what is the motivation for separating front and rear braking? Everyone says and everyone knows, the front has ~80% of your braking power, the rear has more like ~20%. Why not have one brake lever than distributes braking power to the wheels in that ratio? Anyone who gives a fixed percentage is wrong. the "proper" ratio for braking effort depends on how fast you're accelerating. When you're going a steady speed, your force, goes directly down from the CG. Your bike might have 50/50 weight distribution, and lets say your bike has a 6' wheelbase, and a 3' high CG. when your bike is NOT accelerating, your proper braking force at both ends would be exactly the same. AS soon as you start accelerating. (slowing down is an acceleration) the point at which your center of force (the vector from your CG..) intersects with your wheelbase changes. This changes the ratio of weight on each wheel. That weight, is what defines how much braking force can be applied. The 80/20 split would only happen at .6g of acceleration. You'd only feel something like 1.2g of weight on the bars. At 1g of acceleration, our theoretical motorcycle would have a 100/0 braking split, and you'd feel 1.4g at the bars. Of course, most real motorcycles have a lower CG, and a slightly longer wheelbase, exaggerating the numbers. Some bikes, very low bikes, will not ever reach 80/20 before braking traction. Other bikes, tall and light bikes, may have 100/0 as the safer bet!
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Jan 22, 2013 16:37
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JP Money posted:All I can imagine here is some guy from Boston getting mighty pissed at someone in a "Who's on first???" kind of way. Humble admission, many years ago perusing through craigslist for bikes, I kept seeing "needs new stator" or "stator replaced" and simply thought it was all the illiterate rednecks that couldn't figure out how to spell "starter".
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Jan 22, 2013 17:13
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Nerobro posted:Anyone who gives a fixed percentage is wrong. the "proper" ratio for braking effort depends on how fast you're accelerating. I agree (hence my liberal use of the tilde ~ character). I must point out that acceleration is calculable and could be used to produce exactly the required ratio.
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Jan 22, 2013 18:02
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Long shot, but does anyone in the DC area know of a shop that'll weld or braze pinholes in fuel tanks? My '91 what looks like just a rust spot, but whenever I dry it off an hour later it's wet with gas around that area. I did some reading on the various ways folks fix these, and though various epoxies work for some people, there is a body recommending to "do it right" and weld/braze, or take it to a pro who will. I tried calling a few local moto repair shops, who seemed confused I was even asking. Before I go and call every auto body shop, fabricator, and welder in the area, anyone got leads to narrow down the search? Interestingly enough, one general lead I ran across is that radiator repair guys tend to be more willing than most, because they have the gear to "boil" the tank before welding it, so no fumes. It messes up the paint, but the paint is about at the bottom of my list of concerns. I've seen a few radiator shops online (unfortunately not near me) that advertise doing the whole works, totally pathing up, de-rusting, and sealing a moto tank, so if I can find someone to do that I'll be sitting pretty. The actual moto shop quoted me $170 just to de-rust and seal, no patching. If anyone has leads, or suggestions of the best places to ask around, that would be appreciated. EDIT: Or does it just sound way easier just to buy a dented but hopefully-not-overly-rusty tank off eBay? Does this one look decent? EX500/Ninja fuel tanks are compatible across all generations, fortunately. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 01:12
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Wouldn't sealing fill in the pinholes? I'd expect the sealant to move into the holes and be thick enough to at least cover over such a small defect. Since you know roughly where the pinholes are from seeing the gas droplets form you can try to focus the sealant especially on that area if you DIY.
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Jan 23, 2013 01:18
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On something as common and easy to find parts for as that I would just buy one from a newer model off ebay and be on my way. Every time I've tried to repair rusty fuel tanks that develop pinhole leaks it's always a nightmare. Get one sealed up and a couple weeks later you have a new one in a different spot. Something like kreem will stop the leaks but you will still have sections of the tank that are aluminum foil thick just waiting to get bumped.
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Jan 23, 2013 01:34
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EDIT: The more I think about it, and how hard it's going to be (without a car) to transport the tank to some workshop out in the suburbs, go pick it up again, etc., buying off eBay is looking better and better. Any tips beyond the obvious "dents shouldn't have sharp creases, no surface rust, and make the guy make a clear statement about internal rust so he's risking his feedback if he lies?" Only downside is I live in an apartment, so not really anywhere to put my old tank. I'm seriously thinking I might just offer my old one free to a local shop, or on Craigslist with a "you have to come that day that I remove it" so I don't have it sitting around. Otherwise I'm just going to literally have to prop it up in the alley and say "come get it". JP Money posted:Wouldn't sealing fill in the pinholes? I'd expect the sealant to move into the holes and be thick enough to at least cover over such a small defect. Since you know roughly where the pinholes are from seeing the gas droplets form you can try to focus the sealant especially on that area if you DIY. That specific pinhole, possibly. But the concern is that it's like cockroaches, there are more lurking for each one you see. Plus depending on how the hole happened (chipped through from outside, or slow rust from inside) it might just be the advance guard of a larger rust-patch happening. Supposedly with welding they actually drill out the hole and the area around it just to remove any further weakened metal, and then patch on. Looking at eBay though, there seem some decent tanks for under $100 shipped. This guy has a 2006 with some dents that he claims is dry and looks rust-free inside. lovely pain and what appear to be non-lethal dents, but mine is a rat-bike anyway, so I'm happy to save cash by buying ugly. Missing cap/lock is fine since I can salvage mine, and my petcock needs a rebuild anyway. My only paranoia is whether the paint is deliberate to hide rust, and I also emailed him to ask for a photo of the underside. If anyone has comment on the tank I just linked above, I'd be glad to hear it because I think I might actually get that one, on the theory that the bad paint is keeping the price low for its condition. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 01:50
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Yeah don't even bother with that tank unless it's something unique and rare. Just eBay a new one.
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Jan 23, 2013 01:55
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-KAWASA...50e0314&vxp=mtr Here's an 04 tank that isn't as bad as the one you listed for ~105 overall it looks like. I didn't know it was for a ninja 500. Definitely buy a replacement tank and don't gently caress with yours. If you want, seal it up yourself and sell the tank on ebay or CL to recoup money.
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Jan 23, 2013 02:14
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JP Money posted:http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-KAWASA...50e0314&vxp=mtr Yeah, I saw that one, but I'm almost suspicious of the price for the shape it appears to be in. Plus on the underside pic there's a little rough patch above the bracket, can't tell if that's bubbling, a patch, an old weld, or what. Or just wear on the paint. I messaged him to ask. That is one of the bright spots about owning a bike that's barely changed in a few decades, lots of parts. The '89-'93 generation differs somewhat from '94-, but a lot of components, including the tank, are the same. I'm finding the EX500 forum to be incredibly useful as well for specifics, but it's good to get more social folks here. quote:If you want, seal it up yourself and sell the tank on ebay or CL to recoup money. I'd have to de-rust it first, and as an apartment dweller I can't really have many dangerous fluids around (etching acid, caustic cleaners), don't even have a garden hose, etc. I'm thinking I might just CL it for $20, and not even drain the old gas until the guy actually shows, just so that all the awkward can't-go-inside stuff gets knocked out at once. There's a service station I can bike to that takes various car fluids for disposal, so I'll just cycle down there with the old gas. Easier than carrying a gas tank on a bicycle. This apartment-living really limits certain kinds of maintenance, as opposed to my house in Austin where I actually lit a small bonfire in my front yard to heat out the carbon buildup in a Honda Hobbit moped engine. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 02:18
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I live in a townhouse so I can sympathize. They really don't care what I do here though. I don't think sealing is that bad. Get some phosphoric acid and go to town. Hell you could do it on your back patio / balcony even. Phosphoric isn't so bad. Either way it should be pretty easy to find a replacement tank cheap. That tank I listed looks like an ok enough seller. Hopefully he comes back with good news for you.
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Jan 23, 2013 02:50
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republic posted:Hey folks, I have a question that's been weighing on my mind recently. I'm a few weeks out from moving cross country, and I'm faced with the unfortunate fact that I need to sell my bike. Things have been pretty tough financially this year, and between that and other complications the bike has been sitting covered in my parking structure since this past April. As a result it'll no longer start. I'm at a point where I don't have the time or the know-how to get it running as I prepare for this move, and as much as I'd love to, I can't take it with me. I'm trying to get rid of it on Craigslist, but I'm not sure what the bike is worth in it's current state. Perhaps a silly question, but have you tried push-starting the bike? I've owned a few less-than-reliable bikes and that's usually worth a shot. I'm with the hivemind that you should definitely invest a little money to try and get the bike running; assuming the worst about a non-running vehicle on CL is par for the course, so you'll really get nothing but lowballs on it as-is.
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Jan 23, 2013 14:27
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What would cause a bike to start fine when cold but if it's hot it'll crank over slow or barely crank over and not start? I don't think I've changed anything lately.
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Jan 24, 2013 06:31
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You can check for bad connections but that's how a lot of starters start showing death throes. Good news is you can typically replace the brushes cheap. edit: unless you are seriously overheating something and pistons are trying to seize. But if normal operating temps, starter.
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Jan 24, 2013 06:42
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Yeah it'll be the starter; the coils are getting hot, causing the impedance to shoot up and rape you. Also could be a bad ground; I've had cars with a poor engine ground which fired perfectly cold but seemed to have a dying starter hot. Unlikely with a bike as modern as yours though.
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Jan 24, 2013 06:45
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You'll find the ground lead bolted to the chassis or the engine under the tank, can't remember which one it is but it's pretty noticable since the negative lead from the battery goes straight there. You'll probably want to undo it, clean the terminals and around the bolt hole.
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Jan 24, 2013 07:27
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I'll check the ground wire, if it's the starter I'll probably leave it alone until it dies or I swap an 09+ engine in. Which leads me to my next question, no big shavings but the oil is slightly gold in color from bearing flakes. Which could they be? 
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Jan 24, 2013 17:40
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Any risk to going with aftermarket float chamber gaskets instead of the wildly-more-expensive OEM parts? This is as respects a 1979 XS750; need to make this old triple run, it's a hilarious ride.
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Jan 24, 2013 19:44
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clutchpuck posted:Any risk to going with aftermarket float chamber gaskets instead of the wildly-more-expensive OEM parts? If you mean the float bowl gaskets for the carbs, then no. Those are just fiber gaskets to keep fuel from sloshing out. The fuel level sits just below that seam, so they are not used to keep any particular pressure. Just grab a pack of K&L gaskets. If the bowl shape is not super complex, you can cut your own bowl gaskets in a pinch, using 1/16" (IIRC) gasket paper from Auto Zone.
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Jan 24, 2013 20:10
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Right on, that's what I expected. I was gagging at the $21 on the XS's parts fiche. Especially after the one for my DT cost like $3. AND ESPECIALLY since I'll need three.
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Jan 24, 2013 21:12
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clutchpuck posted:Right on, that's what I expected. Depending on how stuck the bowls are, you may not need to replace the gaskets. If they haven't gotten glued into the bowls or bodies and come off intact, I reuse the bowl and top gaskets to reassemble the carbs.
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Jan 24, 2013 21:50
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BlackMK4 posted:Which could they be?
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Jan 25, 2013 01:11
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UPDATE: I just got a silver Ninja 500 tank for $75 shipped on eBay. It's got a few dents but clean inside, no lid or petcock but I have those anyway. It'll go on my black hooligan/rat EX500; I figure I can always rattle-can it black if I get tired of it, but for now the contrast will look kind of cool. I know it's just silver paint, not brushed metal (which is apparently really a pain to clear-coat right so it's protected), but I'm excited. I just got my bike cover in the mail, so now I can take prominent parts off my curb-parked bike without getting ticketed for having a (temporarily) non-working bike outside. First step is to put my tank with the rust pinhole on Craigslist. I dunno, maybe $25? I just want to get rid of it, since I live in an apartment and have nowhere to clean a used tank nor store it safely, so I pretty much need to sell it right off the bike as the guy pulls up. Secondary question, about this right fork:  Is this "goodness me, replace the seals and the fork itself or you will die", is this "meh, ride it for a bit, but you're going to want to get around to putting in fresh seals and buy a new-ish fork on eBay for $40" or is this just "scrub some of that gunk off the fork and you're fine"?
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Jan 25, 2013 05:02
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Secondary question, about this right fork:
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Jan 25, 2013 05:15
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:That's rust on the chrome tube, I assume. Yeah, that fork tube is fried. I'd ebay a new one. The danger involved is not immediate, like a brake line blowing out, but a couple dangers are that one of the forks is going to always leak a lot and therefore it's going to affect the damping and stability of the front suspension which may affect cornering etc, and if it leaks a lot and you happen to have a brake disc on that side, it's likely to end up on the disc and contaminating the pads. That'll mess up your braking which is obviously bad. Little rust specks can be polished off and are okay-ish, but just not big patches, particularly where the seals ride, yes? Also, is that blue gunk at all normal, or is it just some shoddy patch-job for some seals that are on their last legs? Getting the forks off these appears to be a real pain even with some decent tools, or needs an industrial vice and the like. This might be one of the ones where I'm better off taking it to a mechanic to have the seals changed and fresh fork chrome tubes put on, then eBay the old ones for whoever wants to strip and re-plate them or whatever.
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Jan 25, 2013 06:00
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I'd just buy some fresh forks off ebay. Not worth the recon costs and poo poo.
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Jan 25, 2013 06:12
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Yeah I'd have to agree with that. I have no idea why it looks like your seals have been eaten by sharks then slimed by aliens.
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Jan 25, 2013 06:31
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It looks like someone previously tried to stop the leak with blue RTV silicone. That fork probably hasn't had fluid in it in a while.
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Jan 25, 2013 07:28
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Z3n posted:I'd just buy some fresh forks off ebay. Not worth the recon costs and poo poo. ? I thought that's what I proposed, did I mis-state? Or are you saying I should buy a whole front end? I'm unclear as to whether you're advising I: - buy a new right "cylinder comp" (the shiny part, right?) and use my current fork pipes and small parts, with fresh seals, - buy two new cylinder comps although the left just has some specks of surface rust - buy the full pair of cylinder comp, fork pipes, and the small bits to replace those entirely I'm just not familiar enough to be sure which of these "fresh forks" applies to. If you can clarify that I'll start checking eBay. quote:It looks like someone previously tried to stop the leak with blue RTV silicone. Now that you mention it, the front does push down relatively easily... It still comes back up after I brake or press the front downwards, but it does seem to go down easier than other bikes I've had. I'm learning a lot the hard way with this bike. This should be a good lesson to me about not buying a bike in a hurry, at 10PM in a parking lot, in the rain. The whole experience of buying this bike to replace my stolen one was kind of a fiasco, but that leaves me wanting all the more to suck it up and get this to run well. I figure the bike is sunk cost at this point, so given it has a solid frame and clear title, engine worked fine before I left it parked too long, all major bits are there albeit some needing replacing, I'm feeling surprisingly confident about having this be a decent bike with a few weeks' work and a few hundred in parts. I haven't yet seen anything that really needs to be done by a pro (or someone with more tools/workspace than me) other than the forks; I should get some good wrenching practise out of this.
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Jan 25, 2013 13:26
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