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QPZIL posted:My home forge is working great, except that I've shorted out two hair dryers now I use a miniature squirrel-cage blower (why the hell are those things called that anyways?) intended for a furnace. The air output is just about right for the job, and they usually come with a built-in flange for mounting that makes setting it up infinitely easier. Not too expensive, either, as they're not really a niche-use item (like a full-sized hand-cranked blower, for instance, is). If you were inclined to do things the old-fashioned way, though, a Japanese-style box bellows ( http://www.katanabuilders.com/katanablog/fuigo-box-bellows/ ) is a very effective and straightforward way of providing man-powered airflow. It is extremely simple in construction- anyone with rudimentary carpentry skills could take a crack at it, needing only the wood and iirc some scrap leather for the 'gaskets'- and provides continual smooth airflow on both the push and pull stroke, something few other manual bellows can do, none of which are as simple in design and construction as the box bellows. I'd imagine you could modernize the box bellows design -significantly- with, say, PVC piping, as the basic layout- a single large chamber with four very simple valves and a gasketed piston with a push/pull rod, and a tube connecting either end of the main chamber that leads to the forge- would probably adapt very well. I'd wager that a cylindrical piston/chamber would be a lot easier to construct without a lot of air leakage than a wooden box, at any rate. e: irt your last thing- yeah, annealing it would make it perfectly drillable- the catch being that, unless you know how to temper steel, the finished driver will be annealed as well, and have a correspondingly-shorter lifespan. It'll still be harder than the screws it's turning (probably, anyways), so it shouldn't be a dramatic decline in lifespan, but it'll be a lot more prone to damage in any case. Because I'm terrible at tempering, like, really, really bad, I usually take the shortcut of case-hardening stuff like that with Cherry Red, an instant non-cyanide-based case hardener. Heat up to- whoda thunkit- cherry red, dip into compound, heat to cherry red again, let cool/quench (I forget which), the outer skin of the tool is jacketed in very hard carbon steel. Problem being that it's a very thin layer, relatively speaking (it's vanishingly easy to file away by accident if you don't case-harden it as the last step), and- in your case- it's a much more expensive and unnecessary alternative to just tempering the thing like a normal human being, or accepting that it'll last for 1000 Torx safety screws instead of 5000, or whatever. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Jan 21, 2013 |
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Jan 21, 2013 02:05
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What else can I use as an inexpensive blower? My dad has a spare foot air pump, that might work, and won't make my lightheaded like blowing into the tube was doing. Heh.
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Ambrose Burnside posted:I use a miniature squirrel-cage blower (why the hell are those things called that anyways?) intended for a furnace. Speaking as a guy who works on these, "Forward-incline Centrifugal Fan" is much more difficult than "fuckin' thing looks like a rodent's runnin' wheel."
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Jan 21, 2013 02:32
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Mr. Bill posted:Speaking as a guy who works on these, "Forward-incline Centrifugal Fan" is much more difficult than "fuckin' thing looks like a rodent's runnin' wheel." Ohhh. Ohhhhhhhhhh. I get it.
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Jan 21, 2013 04:00
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Random Number posted:You ain't drillin' poo poo if it's hardened. Sorry. QPZIL posted:Even if he heated it to non-magnetic and cooled it in a sand or ash bath? Would that anneal it to the point of being able to drill into it? Hypnolobster posted:It would probably drill at that point, but is it really worth the trouble when a T20 secure torx bit is about $1.50? The screwdriver was a cheap as hell 3-pack (T10, T15, T20) for $1.50 and I figured it would be cheaper/easier than ordering or finding one. Plus, I realized on Friday that I needed secure torx and not normal torx and drat it, I wanted my coffee maker working drat it. I really hate companies that use a really obscure bits for no real good reason.
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Jan 21, 2013 05:16
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Fire Storm posted:I figured I'd try it because I had nothing to lose. Heated to glowing, let it air cool and then it was drillable.
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Jan 21, 2013 05:40
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Regarding an air source, I just use a cheapo shop-vac with the tuyere attached to the exhaust valve. Works great, I just use a piece of metal to adjust the rate of flow into the tuyere.
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Jan 21, 2013 17:20
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Irt my own forge, I (stupidly) built it into an old barrel, which makes it weigh 200 pounds and renders it completely unmoveable while simultaneously being situated inconveniently low to the ground, I made a pipe tuyere (straight length of pipe run through either side of the barrel with holes drilled along its length where it converges with the clay firebowl, with an end-cap on the side opposite where it joins to the blower) and achieve airflow control via the very high-tech method of drilling a bunch of holes in the end-cap and plugging them up with mud, and selectively unplugging a number of holes to fine-tune the resultant pressure out of the tuyere.
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Jan 21, 2013 22:26
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I used an old bathroom exhaust fan on a dimmer switch while I had electricity handy. Now I use a leaf blower on idle. It fouls the plug up a little, but nothing that doesn't clear itself up after a few minutes of normal operation.
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Jan 21, 2013 22:26
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Irt my own forge, I (stupidly) built it into an old barrel, which makes it weigh 200 pounds and renders it completely unmoveable while simultaneously being situated inconveniently low to the ground, I made a pipe tuyere (straight length of pipe run through either side of the barrel with holes drilled along its length where it converges with the clay firebowl, with an end-cap on the side opposite where it joins to the blower) and achieve airflow control via the very high-tech method of drilling a bunch of holes in the end-cap and plugging them up with mud, and selectively unplugging a number of holes to fine-tune the resultant pressure out of the tuyere.  High five, drill holes and then plug them up buddy! I just have a u-shaped piece of metal I lay over the holes in the pipe.
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Jan 21, 2013 22:57
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I wonder if a bike pump would work in a pinch while I'm shopping around for a squirrel cage blower? If it's taped up enough it should put out enough air right? edit-- and as an aside, my first homemade knife! It's a stock removal, and it's a little... homely, but I made it completely with powerless hand tools so by golly I'm proud of it. Next project is an actual forged knife, probably hidden tang. 
Count Thrashula fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 17:07
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Dude, that is really good for a first project, don't say nothin' bad about it. Peep my first knife: 
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Jan 22, 2013 17:33
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I was one of the lucky folks who got in on the Zoro Tools Cutmaster 42 deal on Cyber Monday. My first unit was DOA (not too happy about that, but Zoro did right by me and covered shipping both ways for free, plus shipped the replacement as soon as I had shipped the defective unit back, rather than waiting for it to arrive). A+ to Zoro... but anyhow. In any case, I finally got the chance to start using it last night. I picked up a piece of used 3/8" steel plate from the local scrap yard. I'm working on building receiver mounts for all my vises (6 functional) and grinders (2). The steel is weathered, and has a good amount of surface rust. I needed to rip the 30"x30" piece of plate into an 8" width piece for the mounts for my gear. I used a flapdisc to remove the rust and any loose material where I was cutting, but I didn't grind off the mill scale, or really grind the rust out of the pockmarks. I measured out 8", and marked it on the plate, then affixed a piece of 1/2" plywood so that the arc would be in the center of the mark and the tip would be 1/8" above the plate, and made my cut. I was running ~32 amps, the 40Amp drag tip, and a relatively slow travel speed (probably took me 60 seconds to cut across the 30 inch piece). Air pressure was 90 psi from an attached regulator and 5 micron filter into the machine, which has its own internal regulator and filter as well. I ended up with a lot of bottom dross, some of it came off easily with a scraper, but the rest had to be ground off. The kerf was kind of uneven (thanks to me not being smooth with my speed), and needed grinding to true it up. I sectioned up the 8" wide piece into 5 pieces for my gear, and I tried varying my travel speed, dropping the amps to 27, and whatnot. I couldn't find the sweet spot easily, and I couldn't tell until I was done how it had turned out. There were spots where there was very little dross, and the cut was pretty flush on the edges, but it was inconsistent. So, any tips to decrease the dross, and anything I should have done differently? I can't find a cut speed chart for the CM42, so if anyone has something for me to look at, I'd appreciate it. I know that slow speed dross is caused by a number of things (travel speed too slow, too high an amperage setting, dirty metal, etc)... In any case, it was way way easier than O/A, and caused less noise and dust than using an abrasive saw. I could have probably used a jigsaw, but 3/8" is awful thick, and it would have taken forever. Plasma seems like a great technology, I just need to learn how to make it a little cleaner. I ordered a roller guide from eBay last night, hoping that would help me keep my angles better, and keep my speed more smooth. I'm a little confused regarding the drag/standoff tips for this machine. Drag tips that I've seen in the past have little teeth that maintain a distance off the piece, but the drag and standoff stips for the SL40 torch look identical. If I get a chance to cut some more tonight, I'll take pictures (everything I cut yesterday has been ground down, and had the rust removed from the surface).
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Jan 22, 2013 18:50
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QPZIL posted:I wonder if a bike pump would work in a pinch while I'm shopping around for a squirrel cage blower? If it's taped up enough it should put out enough air right? Give me a day or 2 to poke around, I have a 120v elecric blower sitting around that you can have if you pay the shipping, I just need to find it.... Should have an adapter for 3 inch duct on it.
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Jan 23, 2013 00:17
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iForge posted:Give me a day or 2 to poke around, I have a 120v elecric blower sitting around that you can have if you pay the shipping, I just need to find it.... Should have an adapter for 3 inch duct on it. Sweet thanks!
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Jan 23, 2013 00:27
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QPZIL posted:I wonder if a bike pump would work in a pinch while I'm shopping around for a squirrel cage blower? If it's taped up enough it should put out enough air right? Holy man, that is an amazing first project. Was that in a class or something? Phenomenal. I think there was a little interest in how I do my little dragonflies, so I thought I'd pictorialize it while I made one tonight. Simple starting materials.  Round out the shank of the spike, don't elongate it if you made the wings the same size as the spike.  Using a handy fuller, butcher tool, guillotine tool or whatever you have available, notch the rings of the abdomen. You can do this with a grinder if you like too.  Now, don't be an idiot like me, chisel a hole into the side of the spike FIRST, and then split it in the back, along the "spine". I accidentally ripped the head off the abdomen this time, but that's ok, it's not a fatal mistake, I just have to weld more now.  Forge down U shapes in the middle of the wings. If you have a small forge window, bend them so you have an "up" set and a "down" set so it will fit. If you're using charcoal or coal or whatever go nuts and skip this part.  Clean the scale off and weld the wings into the notch of the body. Join the butt to the rest of it if you hosed up like I did.   See what I mean? Tight fit. Plan ahead.  Straighten it out so you can weld it all shut.  Clean it up, weld it up. Then in one heat you have to bend the wings into position (again if you have coal/charcoal take as many heats as you like).  You want the back wings to touch a level surface along with the "chin" of the spike and the tail. Angle the wings so it looks natural. Remove the scale and wax the bitch. 
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Jan 23, 2013 05:09
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QPZIL posted:I wonder if a bike pump would work in a pinch while I'm shopping around for a squirrel cage blower? If it's taped up enough it should put out enough air right? That's an excellent first knife. You'll probably also find experience compounds pretty quickly. For example, here's my first knife-shaped-object:  First thing I made, after tongs, now that I think about it. Here's my second: 
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Jan 23, 2013 06:16
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TerminalSaint posted:Here's my second: That's beautiful. Great job! Props to you too, QPZIL. When I get some work done this next week I'll post pictures, hopefully I can measure up 
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Jan 23, 2013 17:42
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Wow thanks guys. I'm probably just too hard on myself. TerminalSaint, that second knife is gorgeous.
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Jan 23, 2013 19:15
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Slung Blade posted:
Hey, thanks for that! I have a bunch of railroad spikes that were just sitting in/on an old rotten stump by a fallen in bridge in the woods and have been looking for creative uses for them. Still have a long way before they can be turned into something nice like that though, I don't even have a forge yet...
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Jan 23, 2013 20:23
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Do you guys think this type of forge would be worth a drat? http://www.popularmechanics.com/cm/popularmechanics/pdf/pm-forge-1941.pdf I have an old sink and an old electrolux "canister" vacuum cleaner already... This old Farrier (sp? he made high dollar custom fitted horse shoes at a race track) said to just use an old torque converter from an automatic transmission, and hilariously also said to use the same type of electrolux vacuum as a blower. Would it be able to burn something other than coal? Does charcoal forge worth a poo poo? ahhhh god I've got so much reading to do 
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Jan 25, 2013 17:27
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apatite posted:Do you guys think this type of forge would be worth a drat? http://www.popularmechanics.com/cm/popularmechanics/pdf/pm-forge-1941.pdf You can also make it at home if you have access to deadfall and a 55 gal drum, and some of the other posters here can tell you about that process. An apocryphal but still probably true story is that Appalachian gunsmiths were known to weld with green softwood, so don't let anybody tell you that stone coal is the only way.
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Jan 25, 2013 18:33
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Dongsmith posted:I've done nearly all my forging on charcoal in an 1820s replica smithy. It smells nicer, burns cleaner, and is a lot easier to find (Ace Hardware, etc) than coal. As long as it's actual lump charcoal, i.e., pieces of wood and not crazy shitheap clay briquettes, it's just fine. You can weld with it if you're careful. The main thing is that it's lighter and it'll be harder to control/contain your hot spot because it burns up quicker, but the challenge is part of the fun. This is apatite, he has acres and acres of trees to render into charcoal  I have successfully forge welded with charcoal, only tried once and it was just two pieces of quarter inch square bar, but it worked. And that was just in my lovely home made charcoal forge. Charcoal is my solid fuel of choice
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Jan 25, 2013 19:47
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How does one go about getting blocks of steel, like if I wanted to make a hammer head or axe head? The only reliable steel sources I've found online are for bars (i.e. Aldo Bruno). Should I just fold the bar over and forge weld it over and over again til I have a block instead of a bar? edit-- Or hammer it on the side or end until it squished down to a block 
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Jan 25, 2013 19:51
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Where do you live? If you are in or near an urban area, there is probably a metal supply place somewhere not too far away. They often have a bin or some shelves of cutoffs and scrap pieces you can buy for pretty cheap. That's a good way to get a solid hunk of high-quality steel. You can also re-use/recycle pieces of metal if you can find them. Railroad track is awesome (but do not just go pry track out of the ground, it's always owned by someone and that's theft), automotive springs are great for making blades (they're typically some variety of 10x0 spring steel), avoid cast iron because that's not really workable in a forge. Also check flea markets. Lots of people sell old tools. You could probably make a hammer head out of a (larger) old rusty axe head, for example. Turning a sheet or bar of metal into a block of metal is hard. Really hard. I don't think you should try to do it. You could forge-weld a stack of bars if you had to but that's also going to be hard and you'll may get lines of impurities and stuff inside which may weaken the metal. It's definitely doable, though, and in fact when smiths hand-make "damascus" (properly called pattern-welded) steel, they forge-weld billets of bars together to make thicker bars.
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Jan 25, 2013 19:59
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I'm a big fan of http://www.onlinemetals.com/ - I might be naive as far as prices go, and thus am paying too much, but they are reliable with the shipment times and have really good customer service. They sell square stock:This is for O1 stock but honestly you're better off getting scrap since they only sell three foot lengths.
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Jan 25, 2013 20:44
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Slung Blade posted:This is apatite, he has acres and acres of trees to render into charcoal Dongsmith posted:I've done nearly all my forging on charcoal in an 1820s replica smithy. It smells nicer, burns cleaner, and is a lot easier to find (Ace Hardware, etc) than coal. As long as it's actual lump charcoal, i.e., pieces of wood and not crazy shitheap clay briquettes, it's just fine. You can weld with it if you're careful. The main thing is that it's lighter and it'll be harder to control/contain your hot spot because it burns up quicker, but the challenge is part of the fun. Thanks! Can't find my railroad track anvil, no money to buy a "real" one... poo poo. Might as well put a forge together in the meantime, anyway. Gotta get some refractory somewhere though.
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Jan 25, 2013 20:47
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So I ended up dropping my second semester of the machinist course I was taking. The stuff we were doing this semester didn't relate to the stuff I need to learn to get where I want to be, so I decided not to waste the time/money. I needed to learn more advanced lathe stuff, as well as cylindrical grinding, and heat treating. The college sold all 4 of their heat treating ovens over the Xmas holidays and doesn't have plans to buy new ones, and the 4 projects we had to do were: 1. Making a flycutter, 2. Making sine bars, 3. Making a center punch, 4. Making a pair of 1,2,3 blocks. All of those are basically milling and surface grinding projects, which isn't something I need. I am a bit disappointed, but I am looking forward to taking Silversmithing or some sort of jewellery course next semester.
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Jan 25, 2013 23:20
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Silversmithing is cool but actually working with silver is insanely, absurdly prohibitively expensive nowadays. Local jeweller's supply puts a piece of 20 ga. fine silver sheet the size of a square of toilet paper at about $100.
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Jan 26, 2013 03:36
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QPZIL posted:How does one go about getting blocks of steel, like if I wanted to make a hammer head or axe head? The only reliable steel sources I've found online are for bars (i.e. Aldo Bruno). I go to Metal Supermarkets fairly often for oddball bits. They've got a really nice cutoff bin, and racks for large hunks of steel and alloy which they sell by the pound. Machine shops, heavy equipment shops, and many industrial places should have a scrap bin that you can root through after getting permission. There will be a ton of shavings on top, but there can be some good bits at the bottom.
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Jan 26, 2013 05:18
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I can now say I have welded using jumper cables hooked to the buildings lightning rods as part of my ground connection to the work piece. Not officially recommended, but the building didn't burn down, and we all lived, so there you go.
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Jan 26, 2013 22:33
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Such a blatant disregard for personal safety and proper equipment care is completely unacceptable... ...unless this music was going through your head the entire time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNl9M5TxGC8
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Jan 26, 2013 22:43
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apatite posted:Do you guys think this type of forge would be worth a drat? http://www.popularmechanics.com/cm/popularmechanics/pdf/pm-forge-1941.pdf In my experience, a vacuum cleaner puts out way more air than you need, and is very noisy. There are plenty of alternatives to look at... I used one of these bathroom exhaust fans for quite some time before I fully switched to propane. Cost like  and is a hell of a lot quieter than a vacuum or hairdryer. I hooked a dimmer switch to it so I could control the airflow. I normally ran it at 1/4 of normal speed for a large brake drum forge. I found that forging with a loud air supply, which I did quite a few times, was not quite as enjoyable as being able to hear yourself think.
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Jan 27, 2013 05:36
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I use the same kind of bathroom fan in my charcoal forge. No dimmer switch though, I use a noma outdoor remote control on/off switch that I keep in my pocket on the key ring with all my shop keys on it. Turn the blast right off with a bump of the pocket. It's meant for christmas lights I think. Whatever, it works well enough.
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Jan 27, 2013 07:49
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Slung Blade posted:I use the same kind of bathroom fan in my charcoal forge. No dimmer switch though, I use a noma outdoor remote control on/off switch that I keep in my pocket on the key ring with all my shop keys on it. Turn the blast right off with a bump of the pocket. Oh my God that is a good idea. No more stumbling around the forge tripping over dropped tongs and cooling steel trying to shut the blower off 'cause it's up too high and is blowing glowing charcoals everywhere.
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Jan 27, 2013 17:55
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Oh my God that is a good idea. No more stumbling around the forge tripping over dropped tongs and cooling steel trying to shut the blower off 'cause it's up too high and is blowing glowing charcoals everywhere. To be fair though that's a hilarious mental image, especially when I picture you as Ambrose Burnside.
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Jan 27, 2013 18:45
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Charcoal is really, really bad for that, especially when I'm cheap and lazy and at the end of a barrel of charcoal and trying to forge with just the fines, the lil chips and marble-sized bits with approximately 0 mass.
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Jan 27, 2013 21:02
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Charcoal is really, really bad for that, especially when I'm cheap and lazy and at the end of a barrel of charcoal and trying to forge with just the fines, the lil chips and marble-sized bits with approximately 0 mass. gently caress, tell me about it. Nothing like pulling a piece out and having a three meter tall shower of sparks go flying up into the night sky. Pretty to look at, but man, don't be downwind. Those little buggers can sting. Or light your entire yard on fire, whichever.
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Jan 27, 2013 22:21
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How stupid an idea is it to have my firepot underneath the roof of my garage? I want to re-locate my forge now that I have an anvil, and I just cleaned out one side of my garage. Assuming that I have all the safety precautions in place (fire extinguisher, hose, etc.), could I theoretically keep the actual fire underneath the cover of my garage and not have it set my roof on fire, or will the heat be too great? The other option is somehow rig my firepot to move on wheels, and just roll it out for forging and back in after the fire is extinguished. I'd like to make this work because right now things are pretty open to the elements and I don't want to just cover my nice anvil with a tarp. Edit: Also, is this belt sander a good choice for blade polishing? It's super cheap compared to other belt grinders I've seen online... sephiRoth IRA fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jan 28, 2013 |
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Jan 28, 2013 01:30
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I have to say, Slung Blade, you've had some really cool posts lately. I love the dragonfly design. Have you thought of forging the wings out until they are almost paper thin? It would make them look lighter and more delicate. Also, thank you for sharing Starburn Ironworks. Those pieces are positively inspiring.
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Jan 28, 2013 18:04
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Slung Blade posted:gently caress, tell me about it. Nothing like pulling a piece out and having a three meter tall shower of sparks go flying up into the night sky. Sparks from charcoal you say? We did some bronze casting a while back, if you touched the bellows with the lid off the furnace this happened   
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Jan 28, 2013 20:20
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