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caberham posted:how can China keep its position as the world's factory? Generally I don't think it can. Specific industrial clusters in China may have efficiencies that can't be taken away, but textiles started leaving a long time ago and other things are sure to follow. China needs economic rebalancing badly because the cheap labor days (relative to the rest of the 3rd world) are coming to an end. There's a serious demographic crisis on the far horizon as well.
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Jan 28, 2013 04:22
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From what I understand, China will have a massive advantage in manufacturing for decades to come because their infrastructure is so developed. It's way beyond what any economy of its development level should have even now. Anyone who has been on roads in India, Africa or Southeast Asia and compares them to Chinese ones will see what I mean. We can all joke about lol Chinese drivers and bad traffic, but the highway and rail systems in China are crazy good. Companies that depends on just-in-time manufacturing logistics models need that, and cheaper markets can't provide it yet.
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Jan 28, 2013 04:29
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To be honest, I see way more people vomiting than making GBS threads in the street. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 28, 2013 04:41
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Bloodnose posted:From what I understand, China will have a massive advantage in manufacturing for decades to come because their infrastructure is so developed. It's way beyond what any economy of its development level should have even now. Anyone who has been on roads in India, Africa or Southeast Asia and compares them to Chinese ones will see what I mean. Heck, my company came into a literally free factory in northeastern China where wages are a lot lower last year, and we moved 2 product lines there from Dongguan and it's still been a massive failure. We can't find enough qualified suppliers or trained workers for hundreds of miles. Even with massively cheaper labor and a completely free factory, we'll still be lucky if we can get our production costs down to where they were in Dongguan within 2 or 3 years. The Pearl River Delta has a lot more going for it than low wages.
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Jan 28, 2013 05:17
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Bloodnose posted:I've got lots of Hong Kong political bitching today. Welcome to the free market! It's not like HK doesn't just import all that stuff anyways. If anything you should be cutting out the middleman, importing directly and selling to mainlanders. 团购 that poo poo by the container.
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Jan 28, 2013 06:47
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It's illegal on the Chinese side though, because it evades customs duties. It's smuggling.
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Jan 28, 2013 07:31
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The obvious solution is for Hong Kong to introduce ration books for baby formula and nationalize all retail outlets selling it. Hong Kong baby formula for Hong Kongers only.
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Jan 28, 2013 07:34
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Bloodnose posted:It's illegal on the Chinese side though, because it evades customs duties. It's smuggling. And that fact certainly stops everyone else. Get in on that action.
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Jan 28, 2013 07:47
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^^^ Yeah smuggling the newest i-poo poo is fun, free money! Smuggling the Microsoft surface is fun - free money! Buy a luxury flat, sit on it for a few years then sell it again, more free money - so much money that you don't even need a job for the rest of your life once you flip 2. But what once was a novelty gimmick is rearing its ugly head and affecting Hong Kong and everyday life. China's protectionism and tariffs is in stark contrast of HK's model of a mostly free port. Personally, I like HK being so convenient to import all sorts of food and export stuff from without much hassle from the customs. HK is actually a major hub for South East Asian and African traders running cell phones, watches, and textiles from China because those areas are notoriously corrupt and the import duties just varies. *** I really really want to start a milk bank in hong kong, similar to something like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_milk_banking_in_North_America. I personally feel that there's enough food stuffs in this world and that production is not a problem. What is a problem is distribution. Perhaps a contractual subscription model? Internet distribution? Or I should get creative and hire migrant mothers to form a human milk farm. The casual racism is getting out of hand and I prefer a more economic solution to equalize supply and demand instead of outright milk tax or government forced intervention. It's a sad situation, that the ingredients to produce infant formula is probably from China yet mainland Chinese lack confidence in domestic production. Lots of grains, vegetables, dairy, and food stuffs are imported from Chinese special farms and into Hong Kong. So it's not like the land is poisoned or incapable of providing food but it is mismanaged. If China allows foreign companies to come set up shop and make phones, shoes, and all sorts of goods, can't foreign or Hong Kong run companies come play Harvest Moon? It's not like Chinese food standards are hard to beat  That's my dream when I retire, owning a organic farm and making quality milk and cheese. Some friends of mine dismiss it as too expensive and that the association with mainland China itself and the health bureaucracy will already taint the brand. But everyone's got to eat and if you can create a marketing fad over smart phones, you definitely can create a fad over food.
caberham fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Jan 28, 2013 |
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Jan 28, 2013 08:03
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Mead Johnson has a factory in Guangdong, but mainlanders don't trust poo poo from their own country, so they pay a premium for the stuff from Hong Kong. If I were them, I'd just use the same packaging in the mainland factory, since apparently it's the traditional characters they trust. Also the major companies DO have a subscription service for Hong Kongers. I guess they don't get enough subscribers or I dunno, but it doesn't stop people from getting pissed that the stores all get bought up by parallel traders
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Jan 28, 2013 08:30
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Throatwarbler posted:The obvious solution is for Hong Kong to introduce ration books for baby formula and nationalize all retail outlets selling it. Hong Kong baby formula for Hong Kongers only. I heard a new law went into effect enacting two cans per purchase per customer, so in true DAB (pro-beijing political party) fashion, smugglers are recruiting the elderly to queue up and make the purchases instead. In other news I was talking with a co-worker about this this morning and she said it was a mother's own fault if she can't find any formula because she should have preordered it in bulk online. 
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Jan 28, 2013 11:48
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You should naturally presume that assholes are going to gently caress everyone over, all the time. Buy ammunition and gold.
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Jan 28, 2013 12:08
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I don't understand this baby formula thing anyway. Aren't babies supposed to be sucking on nipples? (clearly I am an expert on this subject)
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Jan 28, 2013 12:34
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It gets inconvenient for the boob-haver.
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Jan 28, 2013 12:38
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Children are pretty inconvenient in general.
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Jan 28, 2013 12:44
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Arglebargle III posted:It gets inconvenient for the boob-haver. You'd think being worried about the safety of the powdered milk and the prices and the acquisition of it would be more inconvenient somehow.
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Jan 28, 2013 13:10
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As much as any issue of convenience, the demand for baby formula is driven by horrifically misleading advertising that portrays milk powder as almost literally magical. If I wasn't on my phone, I'd dig up some commercials for you guys to watch. The brands have names like EyeQ and PhD and advertise that if your kid drinks it, he'll be smart. Then of course the converse of this is that if he doesn't get it, he'll fall behind. These commercials are everywhere. On buses, in shops, on the train, and most of all on primetime TVB dramas. These companies spend HUGE money on advertising, not only for these spots, but also for actors featuring the likes of Cantopop superstar Jacky Cheung. It's hosed up and violates all sorts of intentional and WHO conventions relating to breastfeeding. Also the commercials are annoying as hell.
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Jan 28, 2013 14:21
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:You'd think being worried about the safety of the powdered milk and the prices and the acquisition of it would be more inconvenient somehow. The deal with breast feeding is that it's ideal nutrition for your baby. There are additives in baby formula which mimic what's in the mother's milk, but of course they come from cows or something like that. Formula is a pretty sturdy substitute, I imagine most people that are in our generation grew up on it because it was at one time thought to be superior. HOWEVER. Breast feeding is not easy for a host of reasons. For example, if you have twins, what the gently caress are you supposed to do, have one baby one each boob? There's just not enough milk there. Plus with all the meds and interventions that go on in delivery these days, mothers are really doped up post-delivery and often are in no shape to breast feed. The baby is often whisked away to a nursery where it undergoes a battery of tests and it has to be fed formula or it will go hungry. So it's actually very hard to breast feed these days because of a variety of reasons, never mind the fact that it's not easy to begin with. You can learn and perfect it in 1-2 days, but what the gently caress is your baby supposed to do until then? Starve? What if you never learn to do it properly, is your baby supposed to die? Formula has widespread use in the developed world, because we don't want the baby to die, or even worse have hidden developmental hurdles because it didn't have the right nutrition at birth. Vladimir Putin fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jan 28, 2013 |
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Jan 28, 2013 16:33
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Bloodnose posted:As much as any issue of convenience, the demand for baby formula is driven by horrifically misleading advertising that portrays milk powder as almost literally magical. If I wasn't on my phone, I'd dig up some commercials for you guys to watch. It was the same in Taiwan while I lived there, all these adds touting the mystical benefits of the formula's DHA and ARA supplements. Of course, both DHA and ARA exist in a much superior form in breast milk, but that never stopped anybody.
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Jan 28, 2013 16:40
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Vladimir Putin posted:The deal with breast feeding is that it's ideal nutrition for your baby. There are additives in baby formula which mimic what's in the mother's milk, but of course they come from cows or something like that. Formula is a pretty sturdy substitute, I imagine most people that are in our generation grew up on it because it was at one time thought to be superior. I wonder if this will ever develop into an underground breastmilk market. Hundreds of lactating women hooked up to breast pumps in a single room, filling bottle after bottle. Desperate men taking blackmarket drugs to induce lactation and make some quick cash. Door-service "massage" girls offering additional on-demand lactation services to ensure quality and freshness. To the point where the "massage" becomes the side-dish. It's a cottage industry that can be done at home, providing some side-income.
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Jan 28, 2013 17:00
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There's nothing illegal about milking humans. I mean, it's China so I'm sure somebody would find a way to commit a crime at some point in the chain, but the concept is pretty mundane. The Qing milked people. For their milk. Not sure who it was for! The basic concept of a wet nurse is still sound. Maybe it'll see a comeback with all this poison formula? I sense a business opportunity for 20something white women. AMERICAN breastmilk; it's gotta be better right? 
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Jan 28, 2013 17:04
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Oh I forgot the other sinister part. Formula companies giving free samples in the maternity wards. Public hospitals finally stopped this and breastfeeding rates have increased significantly as a result. But who knows what goes on at the private hospitals. And company reps still hang out outside public ones to offer samples to people leaving the ward. Apparently even using the sample for a day or two can significantly impact a woman's milk production, meaning she may have no choice but to go on using the formula since she no longer makes enough for the baby to feed on breastmilk alone. Also those ads are loving annoying.
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Jan 28, 2013 17:06
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Bloodnose posted:Oh I forgot the other sinister part. Formula companies giving free samples in the maternity wards. Public hospitals finally stopped this and breastfeeding rates have increased significantly as a result. But who knows what goes on at the private hospitals. And company reps still hang out outside public ones to offer samples to people leaving the ward. All of this is true. In America it's also a huge fight. It was a huge deal to finally have insurance companies cover lactation consultants and I think the PPACA finally chips in for breast pumps. But on the other hand, I see the need for formula on hand at hospitals because babies are constantly hungry and new mothers may or may not be up to the task of breast feeding at that moment. The baby needs to eat and you can't give it scrambled eggs.
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Jan 28, 2013 17:37
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JUST LOOK AT THIS poo poo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S23JDRSdZhs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV_yJ2Urc7Q This one is the worst I think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnn_VHrxBHU At the end of it, the kid says "I LOVE MOM!" Like it even suggests your kid will love you more with this milk poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASCs3QcSD0k LOOK AT THIS loving gently caress IN A LAB COAT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjSVNdaZxxc You know what? This one might be the worst: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr7khKskON4 It's just so horrible. I tried to find it with English subs, but no luck. It's so bad I'll translate it line by line. "Little boy, which one of these is bigger?" "The bear! Bears are much bigger than bees!" "So smart! Then a whole bunch of bullshit about how this is so important to the kid's development and check out all this SCIENCE. Until finally Interviewer: (in Cantonese) So smart! Primary School Principal: (in English) Excellent! Secondary School Principal: (in Mandarin) Very good! It's so painfully manipulative and disingenuous. I AM BLOODNOSE AND I AM MAD ABOUT BABY FORMULA So here's something weird to cleanse the palate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOGjeWRNmIc Oh right, when I went looking for some English subs for these ads, I found this about the company that makes the EyeQ brand: China Beverage News posted:HONG KONG – Healthcare giant Abbott Nutrition has moved its Hong Kong media account reportedly worth US$26 million from PHD to ZenithOptimedia following a pitch held in November last year. Deep State of Mind fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Jan 29, 2013 |
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Jan 29, 2013 02:24
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They are so cute though.
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Jan 29, 2013 03:33
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The irony is that it has been proven in plenty of peer reviewed studies that breast fed children are statistically significantly more intelligent and healthier than children fed purely on formula. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0140673692913297
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Jan 29, 2013 04:05
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Baby formula may have changed since then, and from that abstract it doesn't sound like they did much to eliminate other factors. What does "chose to provide milk but failed to do so" mean, and does that fully account for differences in how much of a poo poo the parents give about their kids?
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Jan 29, 2013 04:36
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I remember formula being a big deal when I was an infant, and my parents did not trust any of the domestic brands in the PRC in 1990 so they went and splurged on Nestle formula. The same Nestle that pimps their products in the third world to people who don't have the means to know better.
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Jan 29, 2013 04:45
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VideoTapir posted:Baby formula may have changed since then, and from that abstract it doesn't sound like they did much to eliminate other factors. What does "chose to provide milk but failed to do so" mean, and does that fully account for differences in how much of a poo poo the parents give about their kids? It means they tried to breast feed fully intending to do it, but could not do it. I think that means that they give a poo poo.
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Jan 29, 2013 04:47
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I was just watching this little documentary while I ate lunch today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuTnHSRQZYY It's another short doco about Chinese people with too much money, yeah whatever. But what caught my attention was that one of the crazy racecar driver dudes made his fortune importing European baby formula to China. He claims to make 25 million Euros a year off that. Now I don't know what a Euro is worth, but I'm guessing it's around a jillion HKD so dayum. Now I harbor no ill will against the formula industry and I haven't seen any of his ads to know if they're obnoxious, so I'll control my anger for now.
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Jan 29, 2013 07:18
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China thread, where we discuss non issues such as baby formula and breast feeding!
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Jan 29, 2013 07:45
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Baby formula is a good example for serious issues like business corruption, fake products, lack of trust in Chinese institutions by the general public, the hosed up school system, and medical quackery.
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Jan 29, 2013 07:53
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GlassEye-Boy posted:China thread, where we discuss non issues such as baby formula and breast feeding! Why are you calling it a non issue?
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Jan 29, 2013 07:57
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Vladimir Putin posted:Plus with all the meds and interventions that go on in delivery these days, mothers are really doped up post-delivery and often are in no shape to breast feed. Just FYI, mothers in China normally give birth without medication. Even in the big cities. It's just the way the healthcare system rolls. AssEye-Boy posted:China thread, where we discuss non issues such as baby formula and breast feeding! Women's issues in China are of particular significance for a number of reasons and the baby formula stramash has topical importance as well. Or does it need to involve a lump of rock in the sea to be worthy of this man's internet? GuestBob fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Jan 29, 2013 |
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Jan 29, 2013 08:59
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Those Eye-Q commercials were all over the subway last time we visited HK. We were wondering what the happy kid exclaiming "啤啤熊!" was all about, but now we know it's because his mother bought him this awesome IQ-boosting baby formula. Thanks, Bloodnose. I'm looking into reworking the OP, and maybe adding a few new resources or books. At this stage I'm looking at VOA Chinese and maybe a Taiwan-specific magazine or newspaper. Any other suggestions?
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Jan 29, 2013 09:15
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Edit: Thought this was a different thread.
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Jan 29, 2013 10:31
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french lies posted:Those Eye-Q commercials were all over the subway last time we visited HK. We were wondering what the happy kid exclaiming "啤啤熊!" was all about, but now we know it's because his mother bought him this awesome IQ-boosting baby formula. Thanks, Bloodnose. Are those ads actually legal? ie are companies allowed to outright lie in their ads? or are they very careful to not actually claim anything and only infer?
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Jan 29, 2013 20:04
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IQ boosting as apposed to what? Just regular cow's milk? That would be true.
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Jan 29, 2013 20:33
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Not sure if this should be posted here or the "crazy political discussion" thread, but I got into an interesting argument last night on Twitter  : Phillippines wants to appeal to racism on the issue of #HK tourism black list. BRING IT ON. These photos are forever on the mind of the people of HK. Unforgetable. Unforgivable.   : then what is the reason for equating the Philippines with Syria in terms of travel danger?: That place is as dangerous as a war zone, for HKer. Even the ban is lift, HKers won't go.: then why have it?: Phillippines has never an made apology to HK, Do you understand? Phillippines has NEVER made any apologies on the incident. The warning is a gesture that HK can do to protset. : so it's basically tit-for-tat retaliation? is it normal for countries to issue apologies when tourists get killed? If a Philippine group died in hk, would hk apologise?: The president of the Phillipines did an interview w/ the CNN last year and he still refuses to make an apology. Understand? : is it normal for national leaders to make apologies to other countries because their police botched a raid?: If there were a hostage that killed so many people in HK, HK gov should apologise for being useless.: that would be nice but I wouldn't rage against a whole country because the leaders are dicks.: You, not I. And they have democracy, right? They chose that that piece of crap to be their leader.At this point I wanted to ask if all 90 million Filipinos should be hated because of the actions of a president elected with 15 million votes, but I figured I'd given him enough rope to hang himself with, and I didn't want an endless and pointless argument. He continued, though: It seems that #HK has lost contact w/ the world 4 so many years that nobody knows what has ever happened n just blamed on us. Nobody knows the President of the #Phillipines responed to the death of Manila hostage victims with big smile. Now they even play race card. They're responsible for having a dick as their leader 'cuz they are a democracy, albeit corrupted. Even local newspaper like SCMP links the black list w/ racism 'cuz they're Commie's organ. And China and HK also responsible for having dicks as their leaders. I'm VERY fair. There's a Cantonese saying "Stinky ditch grows stinky grass". I believe it's the case 4 the Phillippines, China and HK. I've never said that HKers share no responsibility on racism. My family taught me to insult HK kids who hit their maids. The travel black list is not related to racism. Cuz the Phillipines owes HK an apology.Dear god, the victimhood.
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Jan 30, 2013 02:45
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It might be helpful to provide some context on the photo for the uninitiated.
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Jan 30, 2013 02:53
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